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  #16  
Old 10-03-2012, 08:36 AM
harwar harwar is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
On the notion the Sox "choked", "Sometimes things happen and you just have to wear it. We had it right in the palm of our hands."

Also it seemed to me that the White Sox just crashed in september, so i'm going to call it 'crashing' rather than choking ..
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  #17  
Old 10-03-2012, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by DeadMoney View Post
Hm... I'll believe it when I see it. I applaud the notion that they're finally looking at themselves in the mirror rather than blaming the fans, but I just don't have a ton of fair in our marketing department (and organization as a whole) to figure this whole thing out.
Williams has consistently said about the Sox attendance issues that the team and the organization have to work harder to earn their fans' attendance. I don't think I have ever seen him outright blame fans for not coming to the park. I don't know where this comes from, I guess people are more comfortable feeling persecuted rather than embarrassed by the stark reality that Sox fans were just outdrawn at the gate by the Pirates. Whatever, I guess people are just going to sing this stupid tune.

At any rate, I still find it very amusing that people actually think the MBA's in the Sox marketing department are the ones that are clueless. Chortle.
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  #18  
Old 10-03-2012, 08:40 AM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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It would have been nice to see KW admit the bench players he provided Robin were minor league quality.
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  #19  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:28 AM
soxfanatlanta soxfanatlanta is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
At any rate, I still find it very amusing that people actually think the MBA's in the Sox marketing department are the ones that are clueless. Chortle.
So, because the marketing department has people with MBA's, they are all-knowing?

The results state otherwise, don't they?
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  #20  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:32 AM
nsolo nsolo is offline
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Originally Posted by SephClone89 View Post
How can they improve the "ballpark experience" and "selling the games?" I'm not understanding what exactly people are suggesting here.

If we're talking about more "in-game entertainment," then you can count me out. White Sox games are plenty enjoyable. There's plenty to do. If we're just talking about different marketing strategies, that's one thing. But changing the actual content of how one experiences a game when they get to the park? I don't get it.
Thank you. Adding more "value" to the already outrageous expense of going to a Sox game is a waste of time. USC is a great park, and I'd love to go more often, but I can't afford it.

I have no statistical proof that identifies the demographics of Sox fans, but I've always been under the impression that we were more of the blue collar variety, as I am. If this holds true for the majority of us, then maybe the the problem is that we just can't afford to attend more. Maybe its a disconnect between Sox management and reality. Times are tough and speaking only for me, my household disposable income has vanished.

Trying to add to the ballpark experience in an effort to add value is a worn out marketing trick that will not induce he to attend more game. With parking (can't take mass transportation as I live in Michigan), tickets, food and drinks its just too expensive.

My wife and I both work full time and together make $52k year. We are in our 50's and have worked hard to pay off our home. We have no credit card or car payments. But going to one or two games a year is a luxury expense. And with dynamic ticket prices, it won't be to see a quality opposing team. Also, as a side note, don't suggest we get different jobs. I've held by job for 30 years, and at my age, that is impossible.

Maybe its another example of the disappearing middle class. Should I go to the game or buy groceries/ pay taxes/ pay utilities/ pay for medicines/ ect?

Simply, maybe the average Sox fan can't afford to attend more game.
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  #21  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by soxfanatlanta View Post
So, because the marketing department has people with MBA's, they are all-knowing?

The results state otherwise, don't they?
No. The fact that they haven't changed anything in years says everything you need to know, unless, of course, you subscribe to the theory that Reinsdorf and the Sox ownership haven't been raking in the cash for the last 30 years which is, in two word, ****ing stupid.

This is their plan.
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  #22  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by wassagstdu View Post
What a joke. New manager, worse September result, but it was still Ozzie's fault last year? And the BS was at the manager/GM level, so the GM would get (at least) half the blame.

Logic would suggest that if you change the manager and things don't change (or get worse), you should look elsewhere for the cause. And if the same thing happens every year it really doesn't make sense to conclude that there is a different cause in one of those years just because it feeds an obsession.
The players.
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  #23  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:37 AM
SephClone89 SephClone89 is offline
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Originally Posted by nsolo View Post
I have no statistical proof that identifies the demographics of Sox fans, but I've always been under the impression that we were more of the blue collar variety, as I am. If this holds true for the majority of us, then maybe the the problem is that we just can't afford to attend more. Maybe its a disconnect between Sox management and reality. Times are tough and speaking only for me, my household disposable income has vanished.
I appreciate your insight, but they did a study a few years ago and concluded that the income difference between Cubs and Sox fans was negligible.
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  #24  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Williams has consistently said about the Sox attendance issues that the team and the organization have to work harder to earn their fans' attendance. I don't think I have ever seen him outright blame fans for not coming to the park. I don't know where this comes from, I guess people are more comfortable feeling persecuted rather than embarrassed by the stark reality that Sox fans were just outdrawn at the gate by the Pirates. Whatever, I guess people are just going to sing this stupid tune.

At any rate, I still find it very amusing that people actually think the MBA's in the Sox marketing department are the ones that are clueless. Chortle.
He hasn't, and no one can produce evidence of such.
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  #25  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:42 AM
nsolo nsolo is offline
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Originally Posted by SephClone89 View Post
I appreciate your insight, but they did a study a few years ago and concluded that the income difference between Cubs and Sox fans was negligible.
Ok, cool. So take away that false supposition and I still can't afford it.
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  #26  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:44 AM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by nsolo View Post
Thank you. Adding more "value" to the already outrageous expense of going to a Sox game is a waste of time. USC is a great park, and I'd love to go more often, but I can't afford it.

I have no statistical proof that identifies the demographics of Sox fans, but I've always been under the impression that we were more of the blue collar variety, as I am. If this holds true for the majority of us, then maybe the the problem is that we just can't afford to attend more. Maybe its a disconnect between Sox management and reality. Times are tough and speaking only for me, my household disposable income has vanished.

Trying to add to the ballpark experience in an effort to add value is a worn out marketing trick that will not induce he to attend more game. With parking (can't take mass transportation as I live in Michigan), tickets, food and drinks its just too expensive.

My wife and I both work full time and together make $52k year. We are in our 50's and have worked hard to pay off our home. We have no credit card or car payments. But going to one or two games a year is a luxury expense. And with dynamic ticket prices, it won't be to see a quality opposing team. Also, as a side note, don't suggest we get different jobs. I've held by job for 30 years, and at my age, that is impossible.

Maybe its another example of the disappearing middle class. Should I go to the game or buy groceries/ pay taxes/ pay utilities/ pay for medicines/ ect?

Simply, maybe the average Sox fan can't afford to attend more game.
Agree. There is plenty of value in going to a game already - they need to do a better job of educating the non-typical "Sox fan" demographic of that.

And "adding value" to keep the same ludicrous ticket system in place? Please.

Still waiting for the massive expansion in Prime and Premier dates to go back to normal levels after they "creatively" did that in the preseason of 2010 to increase revenue and sign Paul and Dunn. With the payroll scaled back this year significantly and likely to go even lower next year, going back to normal game prices without all the pricing games would be a good first step to bring back more fans.
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  #27  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:49 AM
FoulkeFan FoulkeFan is offline
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
He hasn't, and no one can produce evidence of such.
Maybe not, but he has said many, many times that he can't make the moves that he wants to because of low attendance. This bothers me for a lot of reasons, but mostly because it's his job as GM to spend the money that he has wisely. When he says stuff like this it sounds like he's absolving himself from blame because he doesn't have the money to spend rather than because he's made any mistakes. Spending money does not guarantee a winner, but being smart about where you spend it does. Also, he made one of these comments as recently as June. I'm thinking at that point that he knew what his budget was and what he could expect the attendance to be and in my personal opinion, even a large jump in attendance in the month prior to the deadline wouldn't have made a significant difference in his budget. His comments are at best ill-timed and at worst covering his butt.
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  #28  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:50 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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The players.
Right, unless Robin was preaching to the pitchers to walk a ridiculous amount of hitters and telling the hitters to not bother getting base hits with RISP, anybody not pointing the fingers squarely at the players is out of their mind. Yeah, he made some rookie manager mistakes that is to be expected from a guy who has never managed before, but overall, the Sox far outperformed many, many expectations this season. Unfortunately, they went on their usual swoon in September while leading the division so it hurts more than the last few years when they would not bother waking up until mid-May and already basically out of the running 6 weeks into the season. I don't know which is better.
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  #29  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:55 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Unfortunately, they went on their usual swoon in September while leading the division so it hurts more than the last few years when they would not bother waking up until mid-May and already basically out of the running 6 weeks into the season. I don't know which is better.
For 2012, the former was better. For 2013, the latter would have been better, as they could have traded key guys to rebuild.
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  #30  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:58 AM
nsolo nsolo is offline
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In addition to my previous post, I would like to add that I would like to see a team not so dependent on home runs.

The Sox defense this year was a huge improvement. As a fan, I love watching a good defensive team. Its exciting to watch.

As for the all or nothing home run offensive approach that seems to have taken over the team, the problem is two fold. From the standpoint of winning games, its great when your hitting them out of the park, but terrible when you can't manufacture a run with bases loaded and no outs. Its an all or nothing approach.

From the standpoint of the passive fan, you've got their attention when the ball is flying out of the park, but boring them to death when its not.

This is of importance when it comes to tv revenue. Live sports in the ultimate in reality tv, and a boring show garners poor ratings.
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