White Sox Interactive Forums
What's The Score?

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > What's The Score?
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 09-28-2012, 07:08 AM
SoxFanCPA SoxFanCPA is offline
WSI Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 231
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Nice to see these two loser franchises can continue their intertwinement
They have been in existence for 20 years and have 2 titles. It took us 90 years to do the same thing.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09-28-2012, 09:33 AM
doublem23's Avatar
doublem23 doublem23 is offline
MMXXIII
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Roscoe Village
Posts: 53,729
Blog Entries: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoxFanCPA View Post
They have been in existence for 20 years and have 2 titles. It took us 90 years to do the same thing.
And they're well on their way to their 6th last place finish in those 20 years. Look, I'm jealous of their 2 titles but they're clearly just the result of dumb fluke luck, they have never had any sort of sustained success.

FWIW, the Sox have never finished in last place since the Marlins have existed, and by my quick count, to find the 6 most recent last-place finishes for our beloved, you have to start at 1931.

They're losers.
__________________
2014 Obligatory Attendance & Record Tracker

0-4

LAST GAME: May 31 - Padres 4, Sox 2
NEXT GAME: Maybe never? Apparently I am bad luck
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 09-28-2012, 12:23 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Southside
Posts: 14,244
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
And they're well on their way to their 6th last place finish in those 20 years. Look, I'm jealous of their 2 titles but they're clearly just the result of dumb fluke luck, they have never had any sort of sustained success.

FWIW, the Sox have never finished in last place since the Marlins have existed, and by my quick count, to find the 6 most recent last-place finishes for our beloved, you have to start at 1931.

They're losers.
I don't know if I would say they were a result of dumb fluke luck, had that 1997 team not been dismantled they could have been a good team for awhile. The 2003 Marlins had decent years in '04 and '05 and then they started to rebuild again (you could argue they started to rebuild in '04 when they dealt guys like Derek Lee and Ivan Rodriguez). The Marlins build these teams that are meant to compete for a year or two and then they quickly ship off their best players, but I don't think it's any more of a fluke than the 2005 White Sox were.
__________________

Go Sox!!!
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 09-28-2012, 01:01 PM
doublem23's Avatar
doublem23 doublem23 is offline
MMXXIII
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Roscoe Village
Posts: 53,729
Blog Entries: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
I don't know if I would say they were a result of dumb fluke luck, had that 1997 team not been dismantled they could have been a good team for awhile. The 2003 Marlins had decent years in '04 and '05 and then they started to rebuild again (you could argue they started to rebuild in '04 when they dealt guys like Derek Lee and Ivan Rodriguez). The Marlins build these teams that are meant to compete for a year or two and then they quickly ship off their best players, but I don't think it's any more of a fluke than the 2005 White Sox were.
You can make a strong argument that pretty much every World Series winner has to have come kind of dumb luck fluke to make it all the way, in the case of the '05 Sox, the bullpen that season was RIDICULOUSLY good. But the '05 Sox were also the very best team in the American League, if not the Majors, for that season. What they did in 2004 and 2006 has no real bearing on the 2005 season, again, in which they were the very best.

If you want to argue special circumstances led to the demise of the Marlins' championship teams from 1997 and 2003, that's fine, I respect that. But I'll also note that neither the '97 Marlins or '03 Marlins were the best team in their own division for either of those years. I am envious of their success and ability to close the deal when they get there, but, when coupled with the way they keep bottoming out, I would have to say just a lot of luck lead to a lot of their success. Good for them, but still losers.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 09-28-2012, 05:00 PM
cub killer cub killer is online now
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,118
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
You can make a strong argument that pretty much every World Series winner has to have come kind of dumb luck fluke to make it all the way, in the case of the '05 Sox, the bullpen that season was RIDICULOUSLY good. But the '05 Sox were also the very best team in the American League, if not the Majors, for that season. What they did in 2004 and 2006 has no real bearing on the 2005 season, again, in which they were the very best.

If you want to argue special circumstances led to the demise of the Marlins' championship teams from 1997 and 2003, that's fine, I respect that. But I'll also note that neither the '97 Marlins or '03 Marlins were the best team in their own division for either of those years. I am envious of their success and ability to close the deal when they get there, but, when coupled with the way they keep bottoming out, I would have to say just a lot of luck lead to a lot of their success. Good for them, but still losers.
They weren't the best during the regular season, but the playoffs supercedes all of that. The Marlins proved themselves better than the Braves both years in the playoffs, and thus ultimately proved they were the best in their division even though they weren't division champs. World Series Champs wipes out division champs by a country mile.

Winning World Series is never a fluke. It takes more mettle than many realize. The 97 team was a solid group of mercenaries, and the 03 team may have been the most exciting WS winning team to watch. They aren't losers. Only the Yanks have won more WS since 1983, and the Marlins didn't even exist for the 1st 10 years.
__________________
The regular season is merely the qualifying phase for the playoffs. The regular season does not determine the best team, nor the order of who is best.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 09-29-2012, 12:27 AM
MarySwiss's Avatar
MarySwiss MarySwiss is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 15,355
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyPretzel View Post
He's going to bat for the Marlins Tuesday:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,3763486.story
Quote:
Originally Posted by soxfan1965 View Post
That's really great that MLB agreed to this. Also, as flawed as Ozzie is, he is probably a great manager for this occasion, as he has a knack of truly empathizing with players through their joys and sorrows. Go Adam!
I agree. Good for him!
__________________
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4887&d=1158938766
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 09-29-2012, 05:39 AM
TommyJohn TommyJohn is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,098
Blog Entries: 134
Default

I think it's a little silly myself. What makes Adam Greenberg so special, as opposed to others who got into one major league game, then never played in another? Or the tons of guys who rode the rails in the minors for years and never sniffed even one major league game? But whatever.
__________________
I am Dabuiek
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 09-29-2012, 05:46 AM
doublem23's Avatar
doublem23 doublem23 is offline
MMXXIII
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Roscoe Village
Posts: 53,729
Blog Entries: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cub killer View Post
They weren't the best during the regular season, but the playoffs supercedes all of that. The Marlins proved themselves better than the Braves both years in the playoffs, and thus ultimately proved they were the best in their division even though they weren't division champs. World Series Champs wipes out division champs by a country mile.
That's absurdly ridiculous. I'm not saying they shouldn't be World Series champions, but there's a distinction between that and best team in baseball. A 7-game series does not automatically overrule a 162-game marathon. The 2006 Cardinals were not the best team in baseball that year, they just happened to win the World Series. It happens sometimes.

I'm not saying the Marlins don't seem to have a knack for getting lucky and winning it all when they occasionally get the chance. But look at their franchise history and they're really more Cubs than Yankees.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 09-29-2012, 07:00 AM
Bucky F. Dent Bucky F. Dent is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Westfield, Indiana
Posts: 4,633
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldRomanPizza View Post
At the end of the day, Major League Baseball is not the Make-a-Wish Foundation.
Listened to B&B talk to Len Kasper the other day. This is where Kasper came out on it, and I tend to agree.
__________________
It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone. - A. Bartlett Giamatti
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 09-29-2012, 05:59 PM
cub killer cub killer is online now
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,118
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
That's absurdly ridiculous. I'm not saying they shouldn't be World Series champions, but there's a distinction between that and best team in baseball. A 7-game series does not automatically overrule a 162-game marathon. The 2006 Cardinals were not the best team in baseball that year, they just happened to win the World Series. It happens sometimes.

I'm not saying the Marlins don't seem to have a knack for getting lucky and winning it all when they occasionally get the chance. But look at their franchise history and they're really more Cubs than Yankees.
You're wrong, the World Series Champion is the best, even if they qualify for the playoffs from a crap division, winning only 70 games. The regular season just separates the playoff teams from the rest, the playoffs are what determines who is the very best.

A 7 game series does overrule the 162 game regular season. Everything is much more magnified in the playoffs, every pitch and every play count for a hell of a lot more. If the top championship was awarded to whoever had the best record at the end of the regular season, you'd see a big difference in results. Teams know if they have leeway, and thus their reg season record isn't necessarily reflective of their worth. It's only reflective of whether they were better than non-playoff teams from their division. The ultimate test of supremacy is in the playoffs. That's what makes the playoffs so epic, because we know that everything is on the line.

So yeah, the 06 Cards were the best. The Mets had their chance to prove they were better than the Cards, but they failed. It's all about the playoffs, regular season records go out the window when the postseason begins. This is common knowledge. You don't combine regular and postseason records at the end, then decide who is best. The slate is clean when October comes. Then only the very best, the team that had the mettle, will raise that Commisioner's Trophy.

And it's never because of luck. It's because the team was damn good enough. Even in Don Denkinger instances, bad calls happen to everyone.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 09-30-2012, 08:41 PM
Wedema Wedema is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hammond, IN
Posts: 590
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cub killer View Post
You're wrong, the World Series Champion is the best, even if they qualify for the playoffs from a crap division, winning only 70 games. The regular season just separates the playoff teams from the rest, the playoffs are what determines who is the very best.

A 7 game series does overrule the 162 game regular season. Everything is much more magnified in the playoffs, every pitch and every play count for a hell of a lot more. If the top championship was awarded to whoever had the best record at the end of the regular season, you'd see a big difference in results. Teams know if they have leeway, and thus their reg season record isn't necessarily reflective of their worth. It's only reflective of whether they were better than non-playoff teams from their division. The ultimate test of supremacy is in the playoffs. That's what makes the playoffs so epic, because we know that everything is on the line.

So yeah, the 06 Cards were the best. The Mets had their chance to prove they were better than the Cards, but they failed. It's all about the playoffs, regular season records go out the window when the postseason begins. This is common knowledge. You don't combine regular and postseason records at the end, then decide who is best. The slate is clean when October comes. Then only the very best, the team that had the mettle, will raise that Commisioner's Trophy.

And it's never because of luck. It's because the team was damn good enough. Even in Don Denkinger instances, bad calls happen to everyone.
I agree, the World Series champion is the best team in baseball for that year period.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 10-02-2012, 08:08 PM
thomas35forever thomas35forever is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lombard
Posts: 23,409
Default

Greenberg waited seven years to get struck out by RA Dickey on three pitches. So Cublike. The director now has his ending and can start cashing in on his personal quest.
__________________
Bullpen wanted
Good arms now being accepted at 333 W. 35th Street, Chicago
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 10-02-2012, 08:56 PM
mzh mzh is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,985
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
Greenberg waited seven years to get struck out by RA Dickey on three pitches. So Cublike. The director now has his ending and can start cashing in on his personal quest.
I don't know about you, but I'd take the opportunity to be up there getting struck out by R.A. Dickey 8 days a week.
__________________
Obligatory Attendance Record:
3-3
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 10-02-2012, 10:01 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Southside
Posts: 14,244
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mzh View Post
I don't know about you, but I'd take the opportunity to be up there getting struck out by R.A. Dickey 8 days a week.
I would too, where can we start the campaign?
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 10-02-2012, 10:49 PM
Red Barchetta Red Barchetta is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,177
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
Greenberg waited seven years to get struck out by RA Dickey on three pitches. So Cublike. The director now has his ending and can start cashing in on his personal quest.
He was anxious. He took a first pitch strike to settle his nerves and then swung and missed at two high pitches outside the strike zone. It would have been nice if he at least fouled one off.

Oh well, another cute baseball story in the books. It was nice of the Marlins to make the offer, however it would have been better if it was the Cubs. It's not like they were battling for a playoff spot on their way to their 3rd worst season in franchise history.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:58 AM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.