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  #106  
Old 10-02-2012, 06:56 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Jimmy absolutely knew the game and how it should be played. He retired with one of the best defensive percentages in history.

His style might have been grating but he knew the game to the nth degree.

He and Harry were a terrific tandem.

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  #107  
Old 10-02-2012, 07:18 PM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox View Post
Yeah, Harry became such a house shill when he went to the north side that people forget (or never knew) how much he ripped on the Sox from the booth, his voice often dripping with sarcasm. Was it Jay Johnstone that Harry refused to announce his batting average because it was too low, and Harry would bring it up pretty much every game? "I'm not going to say his batting average until he gets it up over .XXX (whatever the line was)." "That wouldn't be a home run in a phone booth." And Jimmy, with his "you young ballplayers out there, make sure you don't do it the way so-and-so does, the right way to do it is..."
My admittedly young (at the time) and naive perspective on Harry and Jimmy was that they were on the fans side, and wouldn't put up with guff from both the players and management's end. I ate it up. Harry was like your jolly drunk uncle and Jimmy was like your squirrely uncle mad at the world today.
  #108  
Old 10-02-2012, 09:14 PM
kba kba is offline
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Originally Posted by Chez View Post
And yet the two most negative, critical broadcasters I've ever heard (and it's not even close) were Jimmy and Harry. And people fall all over themselves to say how great they were.
It's true that Harry and Jimmy could be brutal in their criticism of players and umpires. But it was never long before Harry was back to singing along with Nancy, pointing out pretty girls in the crowd, and reminding us, "You can't beat fun at the old ballpark." (In other words, doing things that sold tickets.)

Hawk can sound angry and bitter for nine innings and leave you feeling like there's nothing at all fun about baseball.
  #109  
Old 10-02-2012, 09:48 PM
shingo10 shingo10 is offline
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Originally Posted by slavko View Post
But what if the smug, arrogant self is right, as Xerxes has just proven to us? (Ya know, the fact that only one of the pitchers was a top pick.)

Then he'll still be gone at the end of year.
  #110  
Old 10-02-2012, 10:20 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
When the final out is called Wednesday, the Stone-Hawk partnership will be ovah.

They started out working pretty well together this season, but then for some reason things went downhill. It was obvious that at some point Stone complained to someone about Hawk calling him "Stone Pony" because both stopped using nicknames. I'm sure that aggravated the relationship as far as Hawk was concerned.

Then in the second half of the season I heard Stone twice disagree with Hawk by name during his Score appearances. Both times came when the team was on the road so Hawk had no chance of hearing it, but I'm sure that got back to Hawk.

I'm all for Stone leaving. His analysis has always been overrated in this town. Sure, compared to the clowns on the Score, Stone makes a lot of great points. But far too often he's a master of the obvious. Most of the ex-players on the MLB Network are far more insightful than Stone Pony.

One thing I think most people can agree on about Hawk is the guy is genuine. I don't think the same can be said of Stone. Stone has often been an ass toward fans. I saw it firsthand at Soxfest. Then he tries to follow Hawk's lead on broadcasts regarding a fondness for fans and it's incredibly hollow. Brian's right, too, about Stone never selling the product. He has no real enthusiam about the team and organization. It's been pretty obvious down the stretch that Stone knows he's not coming back. He's been giving Hawk some of his own medicine whether trying to get the last word in on a subject or making comments that have nothing to do with what Hawk said.

I'm tired of Hawk's negativity. There's no reason for the broadcasts to be filled with such tension. He's losing his marbles. This is the year he started to making bad mistakes on a regular basis due to age. And of course we all know that he lets his emotions get the best of him. I'm afraid that he's doing to have a Woody Hayes moment. I still like Hawk a lot, but it's time for him to retire for everyone's sake including his own.

I also like Farmer, but I'm tired of his "clever" sidetracking commentary. It's not Jackson's fault. He simply tries to roll with Farmer. The star of the radio broadcast should be the game, not constant D-list humor. Yeah, if the game is a laugher one way or the other then it's okay to get goofy, but Farmer doesn't ever stop with his quirky nonsense. I want to hear about what's happening on the field in the late innings of a close game not some bad, comedic exchanges. Plus I'm more than tired of jokes about Farmer's hits and Jackson's pitching appearance. It was funny the first 100 times, but now it's really stale.

It's time to clean house and present top-notch broadcasts on radio and TV that are worthy of a major market. I was listening to Pat Hughes the other day and it struck me as a revelation. As horrible as the Cubs are, Hughes conveyed a great deal of excitement, enthusiasm and description about the game. We could use a lot more of all those things in both booths.
Man, how refreshing, someone who doesn't think Stone invented baseball . I think he is pretty good at what he does, but if he is gone I will not miss him. This worship of him as some kind of genius cracks me up.
  #111  
Old 10-02-2012, 10:37 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by kba View Post
It's true that Harry and Jimmy could be brutal in their criticism of players and umpires. But it was never long before Harry was back to singing along with Nancy, pointing out pretty girls in the crowd, and reminding us, "You can't beat fun at the old ballpark." (In other words, doing things that sold tickets.)

Hawk can sound angry and bitter for nine innings and leave you feeling like there's nothing at all fun about baseball.
I really wanted to comment about the Harry/Jimmy era because despite the mostly lousy baseball I spent a lot of time at the ball park or listening to those two. Jimmy Pearsall like Hawk, has a mean streak, albeit a different kind. Harry and Jimmy were like fans, but very knowledgeable fans. They might not have always sold the team, but they always sold the experience of the game. Both flawed men, they were a great broadcast team, and the Sox owed them big time for holding fan interest when the product on the field was mostly bad.
  #112  
Old 10-02-2012, 10:41 PM
Viva Medias B's Viva Medias B's is offline
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Keep Stone. Allow Hawk to retire. Bring Willsy up from Tampa Bay?
  #113  
Old 10-02-2012, 10:55 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Viva:

Dave's not coming back.

Lip
  #114  
Old 10-02-2012, 10:55 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
When the final out is called Wednesday, the Stone-Hawk partnership will be ovah.

They started out working pretty well together this season, but then for some reason things went downhill. It was obvious that at some point Stone complained to someone about Hawk calling him "Stone Pony" because both stopped using nicknames. I'm sure that aggravated the relationship as far as Hawk was concerned.

Then in the second half of the season I heard Stone twice disagree with Hawk by name during his Score appearances. Both times came when the team was on the road so Hawk had no chance of hearing it, but I'm sure that got back to Hawk.

I'm all for Stone leaving. His analysis has always been overrated in this town. Sure, compared to the clowns on the Score, Stone makes a lot of great points. But far too often he's a master of the obvious. Most of the ex-players on the MLB Network are far more insightful than Stone Pony.

One thing I think most people can agree on about Hawk is the guy is genuine. I don't think the same can be said of Stone. Stone has often been an ass toward fans. I saw it firsthand at Soxfest. Then he tries to follow Hawk's lead on broadcasts regarding a fondness for fans and it's incredibly hollow. Brian's right, too, about Stone never selling the product. He has no real enthusiam about the team and organization. It's been pretty obvious down the stretch that Stone knows he's not coming back. He's been giving Hawk some of his own medicine whether trying to get the last word in on a subject or making comments that have nothing to do with what Hawk said.

I'm tired of Hawk's negativity. There's no reason for the broadcasts to be filled with such tension. He's losing his marbles. This is the year he started to making bad mistakes on a regular basis due to age. And of course we all know that he lets his emotions get the best of him. I'm afraid that he's doing to have a Woody Hayes moment. I still like Hawk a lot, but it's time for him to retire for everyone's sake including his own.

I also like Farmer, but I'm tired of his "clever" sidetracking commentary. It's not Jackson's fault. He simply tries to roll with Farmer. The star of the radio broadcast should be the game, not constant D-list humor. Yeah, if the game is a laugher one way or the other then it's okay to get goofy, but Farmer doesn't ever stop with his quirky nonsense. I want to hear about what's happening on the field in the late innings of a close game not some bad, comedic exchanges. Plus I'm more than tired of jokes about Farmer's hits and Jackson's pitching appearance. It was funny the first 100 times, but now it's really stale.

It's time to clean house and present top-notch broadcasts on radio and TV that are worthy of a major market. I was listening to Pat Hughes the other day and it struck me as a revelation. As horrible as the Cubs are, Hughes conveyed a great deal of excitement, enthusiasm and description about the game. We could use a lot more of all those things in both booths.
Good post. I've been a fan of Hawk, despite knowing full well his personality and broadcast flaws. I have made known my disdain for the modern day blow dried broadcaster, making me perhaps more loyal to Hawk than I should have been. He is now way too predictably cliched and his penchant for wanting his sidekick to be a lackey has become ever so tiresome. I have always admired Stone for his knowledge of the game, but the criticisms here and previously by Brian are well taken. Changes are definitely in order.
  #115  
Old 10-03-2012, 12:54 AM
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Nellie_Fox Nellie_Fox is offline
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Originally Posted by KingXerxes View Post
I'm fine with that Nellie, but have to ask you if you found the Caray/Piersall broadcasts to be more fun than the Harrelson/Stone or Farmer/Jackson broadcasts.

This is about having fun after all.
I think everyone is filtering Harry and Jimmy through the mists of time. And they were only together for, what, four or five years? Harry for ten or eleven? If they had hung around as long as Hawk, a lot of people would have been tired of them too. How many times did you have to hear Harry plugging some restaurant or bar he frequented in order to continue getting comped in all these places while not paying any attention to the play on the field? And slamming back the "ice-cold Falstaffs" until he was slurring his words by late in the game? With Harry, it was much more about the "Mayor of Rush Street" stuff than it was about the White Sox.

Yeah, I enjoyed aspects of it, but a lot of the bitching about Hawk has been about wanting a "professional announcer." Harry and Jimmy were a lot of things, but a focused on the game, professional duo they weren't.
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  #116  
Old 10-03-2012, 12:57 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Viva Medias B's View Post
Keep Stone. Allow Hawk to retire. Bring Willsy up from Tampa Bay?
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  #117  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:36 AM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox View Post
I think everyone is filtering Harry and Jimmy through the mists of time. And they were only together for, what, four or five years? Harry for ten or eleven? If they had hung around as long as Hawk, a lot of people would have been tired of them too. How many times did you have to hear Harry plugging some restaurant or bar he frequented in order to continue getting comped in all these places while not paying any attention to the play on the field? And slamming back the "ice-cold Falstaffs" until he was slurring his words by late in the game? With Harry, it was much more about the "Mayor of Rush Street" stuff than it was about the White Sox.

Yeah, I enjoyed aspects of it, but a lot of the bitching about Hawk has been about wanting a "professional announcer." Harry and Jimmy were a lot of things, but a focused on the game, professional duo they weren't.
Maybe the "mists of time" have affected us in different ways. First of all times have changed, many things Harry said on the air like "plugging a restaurant" would be unacceptable today. Announcers were more free to be independent and show some personality on the air. Today announcers like Ian Eagle are the standard of excellence. Second Harry's drinking was the stuff of legend, spawning many rumors about his personal life. This went back all the way to his St. Louis days, in fact one of those rumors concerned why he left the Cardinals in the first place. Despite it all Harry was one of the best baseball announcers I ever heard. He did all the things an announcer should do and more. You knew the count, the score, the game situation and interesting anecdotes as they pertained to the action. Whatever his alcohol consumption in the booth or the bleachers he still kept up with the game. When Harry went to the north side they tamed the beast within him and then he had a stroke in 1987. It was all downhill after that. FWIW my three favorite baseball announcers of all time are in order, Mel Allen, Harry Caray and Bob Prince. I wish I could turn on my TV or radio and hear those guys do it one more time. The modern day guys and gals are so woeful.
  #118  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:36 AM
DeadMoney DeadMoney is offline
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I think we'd all like that... Unfortunately, I get the sense - from what others have said here - that he's pretty damn comfortable right where he is and/or JR has something against him.
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  #119  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:41 AM
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I'd like Dave Wills too. I don't dislike every single announcer today and Wills does call a good game and bring some personality to a broadcast. It just ain't happening.
  #120  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:46 AM
harwar harwar is offline
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Originally Posted by Viva Medias B's View Post
Keep Stone. Allow Hawk to retire. Bring Willsy up from Tampa Bay?

i said the same thing a few days ago .. Hawk isn't going anywhere .. Dave Wills has a great setup in florida .. as for Stone, i hope he stays but he and Hawk have to do couples counseling or something, since it's really seems that they can barely stand each other .. also, since he has a contract through 2014 (with option on 2015) i don't see how he can just leave if he wants to ..
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