To What Degree Do the White Sox Need a COMPLETE Overhaul?

[TomBradley72]

I may just need a break from my White Sox obsession after 2009-2012- 4 seasons of almost complete frustration and disappointment- but I think 2013 COULD be the season when all of the sins of the Kenny Williams era come home to roost.

The sin of a poorly developed minor league system- with very few (if any?) position players or pitchers who can have an impact on the major league level- combined with....

The sin of high priced veterans exiting the team (Peavy, AJ, Youkilis) along with what may be one of the worst FA signings in team history- Adam Dunn eating up $14M in payroll-

Leaving a .525 winning pct team downgraded at 3rd base and catcher- and a rotation of Danks/Sale/Quintana/?/?

Add to that- Red Line construction, overall apathy of the fan base, and problems in marketing, ticket pricing, TV/radio booths- it's hard to picture anything that will really turn around this team unless the owner goes big in free agency- which is hard to picture based on their history and 2012 attendance.

This years record (.525 winning pct) would have put us 10 GB last year and 9 GB in 2010- and with Martinez back for Detroit- it's hard to picture them struggling like this year.

[TomBradley72]

Originally Posted by DeadMoney

The ticket prices need to go through a careful reevaluation this off season followed by some change. And it needs to be done early on. Dropping prices 3-5 days (or in some cases, a week or so) before the games doesn't help, and it's showed. Attendance issues are solved and corrected in the off season, not in the middle of the year.

I now this is redundant to my OP- but they are just getting lazy when it comes to marketing, etc.

Small example- I go to the game Friday night- as I walk in I'm handed a small, black and white piece of paper with the 2013 schedule on it.

I go to Miller Park Saturday night- I'm handed a rally towel (still fighting for wild card), a team photo and a nice, large magnetic schedule with the 2013 chedule- really nice and on the fridge at home.

[kittle42]

Originally Posted by TomBradley72

I now this is redundant to my OP- but they are just getting lazy when it comes to marketing, etc.

Small example- I go to the game Friday night- as I walk in I'm handed a small, black and white piece of paper with the 2013 schedule on it.

I go to Miller Park Saturday night- I'm handed a rally towel (still fighting for wild card), a team photo and a nice, large magnetic schedule with the 2013 chedule- really nice and on the fridge at home.

You are so right. When the team doesn't care, neither do the fans. That's how Sox fans can be. The Sox had a chance with a team that was contending to try to dent the market a little (with Cubs fans not attending games there, either), but they showed about as much faith in their team as they inspired in the fans.

[thomas35forever]

I'll give my 2 cents based on the OP's structure.

1) The Major League roster definitely needs some tuning, particularly with the bench. I think one of the reasons the lineup ran out of gas was because we weren't deep enough, so Robin was forced to ride his main horses nearly every day. Faced with losing Youk and AJ to free agency, it might become a moot point if we can't solidify their respective positions. Still, find some second-tier players who can hit and hopefully, we won't see another September drought on offense as we have these past two weeks. Consider Santiago as the fifth starter if no one can be picked up via trade or free agency. The bullpen is fine as it is if you subtract a lot of the September call-ups. I like what the future holds for the pitching staff overall. A lot of good young arms to build around.

2) The farm system definitely needs a major overhaul. I won't pretend to know how to execute that because I'm not a big-league GM. However, if getting fresh young blood down in Charlotte and Birmingham means trading away some of our higher-value Major Leaguers, I wouldn't be against it. This is an issue that has plagued the Sox for years and why we've constantly had to look for outside help instead of shaping more of our roster internally. I agree that KW may have overdone trading prospects for established veterans, but we'll see if Hahn decides to be more conservative in that regard. Hope the drafting continues to improve as well.

3) I don't know if Brooks Boyer needs to step aside, but there needs to be a new approach in how this team is marketed. Dynamic and parking prices are issues indeed, but the bigger one is that they need to show people why taking a trip to the South Side is a good idea. We were in first place most of the year and Boyer failed miserably in taking advantage of that fact. Otherwise, we would have broken the 30,000 mark much more frequently. Alas, that wasn't the case and that resulted in the usual tired "Sox fans aren't showing up" crap from the media. Something needs to be done badly. Also, do away with a lot of the promotions and create new ones. All the buzz from 2005 is gone, so you don't need to act like it's still there by keeping everything from that year around. Everyone else has moved on. They need to do the same.

4) Hawk and Farmer aren't going anywhere. That much is certain. I wouldn't be surprised to see Stone jump ship and regardless of who you pair Hawk with in the booth, the TV broadcasts are always going to sound the same because he's the one dictating how it goes. Get rid of Jackson though. The quality in radio broadcasts took a big hit after Stone left and Jackson is hardly an improvement over Singleton (whom I will give props for making it to ESPN). We've heard time and again how boring it is for the listening audience and I can't say I blame them. There's no excitement there and if I weren't a Sox fan, I'd probably bash it endlessly myself. Farmer can sound good. You just need to pair him with the right guy. Maybe Wimpy? Just a name I'm throwing out there. Just take that with a grain of salt. Help draw the fans in by making them want to listen to the radio instead of putting up with Hawk if that's not what they'd rather do.

[Noneck]

Originally Posted by thomas35forever

Help draw the fans in by making them want to listen to the radio instead of putting up with Hawk if that's not what they'd rather do.

The days of listening to Rooney and Farmer or even Stone and Farmer while watching the TV broadcast are long gone because of the time lag.

[thomas35forever]

Originally Posted by Noneck

The days of listening to Rooney and Farmer or even Stone and Farmer while watching the TV broadcast are long gone because of the time lag.

I'm aware of that, but that's beside the point here. People would still rather not listen to Hawk, so I'm trying to find a solution that pleases everyone.

[kittle42]

Originally Posted by thomas35forever

I'll give my 2 cents based on the OP's structure.

3) I don't know if Brooks Boyer needs to step aside, but there needs to be a new approach in how this team is marketed. Dynamic and parking prices are issues indeed, but the bigger one is that they need to show people why taking a trip to the South Side is a good idea. We were in first place most of the year and Boyer failed miserably in taking advantage of that fact. Otherwise, we would have broken the 30,000 mark much more frequently. Alas, that wasn't the case and that resulted in the usual tired "Sox fans aren't showing up" crap from the media. Something needs to be done badly. Also, do away with a lot of the promotions and create new ones. All the buzz from 2005 is gone, so you don't need to act like it's still there by keeping everything from that year around. Everyone else has moved on. They need to do the same.

This, to me, is almost a bigger issue to helping the franchise than the on-field product. "The Kids Can Play" years were better than this in fan interest (yes, I am sure someone will show me numbers to the contrary, but bear with me that we are now in post-2005 world and the baseline expectations are different). People need a reason to be interested in this franchise, and apparently being a few games in first place in a crappy division most of the season is not enough on its own.

Figure out a way to market this team and this franchise regardless of who is on the field and in the dugout.

[Chez]

Originally Posted by kittle42

This, to me, is almost a bigger issue to helping the franchise than the on-field product. "The Kids Can Play" years were better than this in fan interest (yes, I am sure someone will show me numbers to the contrary, but bear with me that we are now in post-2005 world and the baseline expectations are different). People need a reason to be interested in this franchise, and apparently being a few games in first place in a crappy division most of the season is not enough on its own.

Figure out a way to market this team and this franchise regardless of who is on the field and in the dugout.

I agree with you, but this is no small task. Until this season, I thought that the Sox fan base (such as it is) would show up to the ballpark if the on-field product was competitive. Unless this year was a fluke, I'm not sure I still believe that "conventional wisdom" about Sox fans and attendance. Until mid to late September, this was an exciting, likable first place team.

Unless the Sox are willing to reduce ticket prices, I'm not sure how they grow attendance. What is "the reason to be interested in this franchise" if it's not tied to on field performance?

Maybe drawing 1.9 million is the new normal.

[Lip Man 1]

Chez:

I'm not disagreeing with you but this was also the same team that rolled over and died before September every time they had the chance to put Detroit away, and the results against K.C. speak for themselves. I can see why fans would be "skeptical" especially when you factor in ticket prices, parking etc.

The Sox kept shooting themselves in the foot during the season causing a lot of fans to basically say, "not convinced..." (and it turned out they were right...)

Lip

[Chez]

Originally Posted by Lip Man 1

Chez:

I'm not disagreeing with you but this was also the same team that rolled over and died before September every time they had the chance to put Detroit away, and the results against K.C. speak for themselves. I can see why fans would be "skeptical" especially when you factor in ticket prices, parking etc.

The Sox kept shooting themselves in the foot during the season causing a lot of fans to basically say, "not convinced..." (and it turned out they were right...)

Lip

You may be right, Lip; but under the logic of that position, the Sox will only draw 20-25,000 per game (if that) until the playoffs start -- because only then -- when the Sox have made the playoffs -- will fans shed their skepticism. If that's the case, then what's the point of doing any marketing (other than lowering ticket prices)?

[kittle42]

I'd have to also think that if the Sox acquired an everyday player who was awesome (like, MVP level awesome) and likeable and marketable, it would be a huge help on all levels, including promotion. Yes, I realize this is pretty much a, "well, duh" statement, but it's something the franchise never does.

[Chez]

Originally Posted by kittle42

I'd have to also think that if the Sox acquired an everyday player who was awesome (like, MVP level awesome) and likeable and marketable, it would be a huge help on all levels, including promotion. Yes, I realize this is pretty much a, "well, duh" statement, but it's something the franchise never does.

Brooks, Kenny, Rick -- figure out a way to pry Joe Mauer from the Twins or Buster Posey from the Giants. Get'r Done.

[Nellie_Fox]

While all of you make valid points, I still think it's being over-analyzed. The fact remains that it's just not "cool" to be a Sox fan in Chicago, and it's "cool" to be a Cubs fan. That's what's emphasized all over Chicago media, Wrigley Field and the Cubs. It's a shrine, the Cubs are a "storied franchise." The "long-suffering Cubs fan" has become part of Chicago lore, and are held up as some kind of example for all sports fans to emulate. "Oh, they're so loyal and passionate about the Cubbies!"

The news people fawn over the Cubs when they hand off to the sports guy on the 10:00 news. Anything negative about Wrigley or the area around it is not talked about; it's all sunshine and unicorns.

[kittle42]

Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox

While all of you make valid points, I still think it's being over-analyzed. The fact remains that it's just not "cool" to be a Sox fan in Chicago, and it's "cool" to be a Cubs fan. That's what's emphasized all over Chicago media

No question, but (and I hate to use this guy as an example) maybe getting our own Sosa type would be a huge step toward overcoming that.

Albert Belle and Adam Dunn weren't the answers.

[TomBradley72]

Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox

While all of you make valid points, I still think it's being over-analyzed. The fact remains that it's just not "cool" to be a Sox fan in Chicago, and it's "cool" to be a Cubs fan. That's what's emphasized all over Chicago media, Wrigley Field and the Cubs. It's a shrine, the Cubs are a "storied franchise." The "long-suffering Cubs fan" has become part of Chicago lore, and are held up as some kind of example for all sports fans to emulate. "Oh, they're so loyal and passionate about the Cubbies!"

The news people fawn over the Cubs when they hand off to the sports guy on the 10:00 news. Anything negative about Wrigley or the area around it is not talked about; it's all sunshine and unicorns.

But it IS possible to change that dynamic- just ask the Angels and the Dodgers.

With aggressive, creative leadership and investment- the dyamic can be changed- but going back to the mid-80's JR has always played the role of "victim" vs. truly going after it.