To What Degree Do the White Sox Need a COMPLETE Overhaul?

[TaylorStSox]

Originally Posted by doublem23

They have no real plan, it's just people being angry and ranting about nonsense. Replacing Rios with Walker or Thompson? This is borderline insanity.

Sox are still, after the full 162-game schedule plays out, going to win mid-80-something games. This is not a team that needs a major rebuild. More than anything else, what this team needs is some key contributors who can spell guys regularly, keep the older guys fresh, and not force Ventura to have to play his everyday lineup 5-6 times per week, as he was for most of the 1st half. This team needs DEPTH at the Major League level.

Konerko is done. AJ will never repeat this year and Rios may also be having a career year. They're older next year and I expect regression from all 3. Go ahead and keep them, finish with 85 wins again and we're in the same place next year.

[DSpivack]

Originally Posted by TaylorStSox

AJ doesn't have a great OBP. Flowers has a good eye and good power. I think he can make up for the lack of contact with patience. The improvement defensively and in pitch calling will also help. Honestly, I don't want AJ calling pitches to a young staff on a rebuilding team. He's a hot head. I don't want him showing up young pitchers.

Bringing Thompson up would definitely be rushing him and a drop off from Rios, but I prefer to shed payroll.

Obviously, I'm talking about rebuilding. I don't see this team competing with returning the aging players and adding a couple FA's.

Flowers is a career .207/.308/.393 hitter.

With a team that struggles with attracting customers, you want to break up a veteran core that has won some 80-odd games, and tell your customers the product will be **** for several years? What is the obsession with shedding payroll? Why the **** is that important? I want wins. And so do most fans.

[MUsoxfan]

Originally Posted by russ99

3B: give Morel another shot

You lost me there. He's the definition of atrocious

[TaylorStSox]

Originally Posted by DSpivack

Flowers is a career .207/.308/.393 hitter.

With a team that struggles with attracting customers, you want to break up a veteran core that has won some 80-odd games, and tell your customers the product will be **** for several years? What is the obsession with shedding payroll? Why the **** is that important? I want wins. And so do most fans.

Nobody's going to games anyway. It's obviously not just about wins. This team is stale.

In a career year, AJ's OPS is .750 with bad pitch calling and worse defense.

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by TaylorStSox

Konerko is done. AJ will never repeat this year and Rios may also be having a career year. They're older next year and I expect regression from all 3. Go ahead and keep them, finish with 85 wins again and we're in the same place next year.

Konerko may or may not be done. With one year left on his contract, I'm willing to find out for sure. AJ may be gone, which would be OK with me. I agree that someone will likely overpay for him, unless he is willing to give the Sox a deep, deep hometown discount. Rios has always been an enigma, but you've got to be completely out of your mind if you think Keenyn Walker or Trayce Thompson or even Jared Mitchell are ready to play RF in the Majors everyday. It's absurd.

I'll take the aging core that can be likely counted on for 85 wins and see if I can find 5-10 more wins by bringing in a few key guys that give the team some roster flexibility and help keep the vets fresh. It's a much more desirable plan to me than blowing the team up with absolutely no blueprint and stumbling to a 62-100 season. You'd think someone living in Chicago, watching the Cubs would have some sense as to how horrible that is.

[DSpivack]

Originally Posted by TaylorStSox

Nobody's going to games anyway. It's obviously not just about wins. This team is stale.

The Sox drew 1.8 million fans this season. You up for a contest to see how low the season ticket base can get? Or whether that overall number can get down to 1 million?

[MUsoxfan]

Originally Posted by DSpivack

The Sox drew 1.8 million fans this season. You up for a contest to see how low the season ticket base can get? Or whether that overall number can get down to 1 million?

Agreed. This team doesn't sell itself, and the people that do sell it do as bad of a job as any marketing team in baseball.

[TaylorStSox]

Originally Posted by doublem23

Konerko may or may not be done. With one year left on his contract, I'm willing to find out for sure. AJ may be gone, which would be OK with me. I agree that someone will likely overpay for him, unless he is willing to give the Sox a deep, deep hometown discount. Rios has always been an enigma, but you've got to be completely out of your mind if you think Keenyn Walker or Trayce Thompson or even Jared Mitchell are ready to play RF in the Majors everyday. It's absurd.

I'll take the aging core that can be likely counted on for 85 wins and see if I can find 5-10 more wins by bringing in a few key guys that give the team some roster flexibility and help keep the vets fresh. It's a much more desirable plan to me than blowing the team up with absolutely no blueprint and stumbling to a 62-100 season. You'd think someone living in Chicago, watching the Cubs would have some sense as to how horrible that is.

I don't believe this is the case. I don't think the core can give you 85 wins next year, I just don't.

Thompson or Walker would take over CF with De Aza moving to LF, where he's much better, and Dayan in RF. I don't really think they're ready either. I'd be fine with keeping Rios (he is my second favorite player on the team), but I'd prefer to shed more payroll.

[voodoochile]

Originally Posted by DSpivack

The Sox drew 1.8 million fans this season. You up for a contest to see how low the season ticket base can get? Or whether that overall number can get down to 1 million?

It never went below 1.3M even in 97-98 I'll take that bet.

In addition, missing from all this stunning analysis about the Sox drawing power woes is the fact the economy is in the worst 6 year run since the 1930's.

[delben91]

I'm going to go all crazy here and take the glass half-full approach, but looking just at the players on the roster signed through next season...

Rotation: Sale, Quintana, Danks, Floyd, Santiago/Axelrod? - Not bad at all. Will it light the world on fire? No, but you're basically trading Peavy for Danks and Humber/Liriano for Santiago/Axelrod. Not quite a push but not a dramatic drop off either.

Bullpen: Reed, Jones, Veal, Ommogrosso, ??? - Some valuable pieces there, with the 5th starter loser being the long man. Some holes to be sure, but there's talent there.

Lineup:
C - ??? I could see AJ coming back on a 2 year deal
1B - Konerko, with a healed wrist
2B - Beckham, what you see is what you get offensively, top notch defensively
SS - Ramirez, see 2B, but more potent offensively
3B - ??
RF - Rios, can he put two solid seasons together in a row?
CF - De Aza, excellent potential and quintessential leadoff man, can he stay healthy?
LF - Viciedo, better with a full pro season under his belt
DH - Dunn, I'm one that takes the power #s at the expense of batting average and strikeouts, but I know not everyone has that opinion

In short though, I think improvements with experience for those in bold above aren't out of the question. Which at least tells me we aren't seeing 100 loss teams on the horizon. The real issue is can the brass fill in the gaps with quality players to move them from a .500-ish team to a 90+ win team?

But no, I don't think a complete overhaul is needed, though I seem to be in the minority.

[delben91]

Originally Posted by TaylorStSox

I'm tired of using band aids to close huge gashes. It's time to tear it down IMO. The core isn't good. PK's old and had a bad second half. AJ's old, can't call a game any more and is more suited to DH. Signing a 36 year old catcher after a career year is about as dumb a move as a team can make. Beckham's a disappointment. We're losing our number 2 starter and he's not that great anyway.

The FA market isn't good to begin with. Even if we had a ton of money to spend, we aren't an attractive destination right now. Even if we did attract a couple guys, it won't be enough to win big. We'll be back to being not quite good enough to get to the playoff's and too good to get a top draft slot.

It's time for a new era. Break it up and start over. We have a new GM and a young staff that would prefer to teach.

But if we dump PK and Rios you propose trading them for absolutely no one? I don't see how you can trade those two and maybe even Dunn and expect no players at all in return, but your proposed lineup doesn't show any...

[voodoochile]

Originally Posted by TaylorStSox

AJ doesn't have a great OBP. Flowers has a good eye and good power. I think he can make up for the lack of contact with patience. The improvement defensively and in pitch calling will also help. Honestly, I don't want AJ calling pitches to a young staff on a rebuilding team. He's a hot head. I don't want him showing up young pitchers.

Bringing Thompson up would definitely be rushing him and a drop off from Rios, but I prefer to shed payroll.

Obviously, I'm talking about rebuilding. I don't see this team competing with returning the aging players and adding a couple FA's.

Yeah, that's the ticket, throw another unprepared minor leaguer to the wolves so the board can pocket millions...


"I like the way you think, Taylor."

For ****s sake aren't you "tear it all down" people the same ones constantly screaming about the Sox rushing prospects?

Someone post that huge eye rolling smilie puking up eye rolling smilies it's the only way to express my feelings on this matter and I don't have the link...

[delben91]

Originally Posted by MUsoxfan

You lost me there. He's the definition of atrocious

Also played with a back injury this year that seemingly took months and several false starts to heal. I don't think the Sox should make him the one and only plan, but I don't think giving him a shot to make the team out of spring training should be out of the question either.

[DSpivack]

Originally Posted by voodoochile

It never went below 1.3M even in 97-98 I'll take that bet.

In addition, missing from all this stunning analysis about the Sox drawing power woes is the fact the economy is in the worst 6 year run since the 1930's.

True, but are Sox fans worse off compared to other fan bases? And how does the drop in attendance for the White Sox compare to other teams in the last 6 years?

[TaylorStSox]

Fans didn't get behind this team in a pennant race because they aren't likable. They don't have an identity. They don't have stars. That's partly because the marketing staff is awful and partly because the aging core is stale.