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  #46  
Old 10-01-2012, 03:47 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Not that I approve, at all, of moving Dunn, but I really don't think the Sox are in any need of prospects for the bullpen; Veal, Jones, Reed, and to a lesser extent, Omogrosso and Santiago have shown signs of being dependable relief pitchers. Not to mention, I don't know what team goes out and trades one it's most productive bats for bullpen pitchers; the Sox seem to have an OK stable of young starters in Sale and Quintana, what we're lacking is young, impact position players. You've got Viciedo who is kind of a mixed bag, De Aza who will probably be dependable for another year or so, Beckham who is all glove and no bat and then a bunch of scraps. If you're going to move Dunn, I'd at least they'd hope to get someone who may be able to replace some of his production in the lineup.
I don't think that two young starting pitchers quantifies as a stable. I agree with you that I don't think there is much point in trading for young bullpen arms as we have a surplus of those right now but I would have no problem trading Dunn for another young starting pitcher and/or young impact position player.
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  #47  
Old 10-01-2012, 03:50 PM
tstrike2000 tstrike2000 is offline
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If KW's promoted to President, no way McDonough's coming here, even if it is a good idea. Unless he's given some other title.
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  #48  
Old 10-01-2012, 03:53 PM
aryzner aryzner is offline
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Well starting pitching-wise, it's who?

Sale
Quintana
Danks
Floyd (Option for 2013 if I am right?)
Peavy (Something like a $22M option likely to be declined)
Santiago?

For what it's worth, according to this report, Peavy is quoted as saying he would like to "work something out" to stay with the Sox.

I don't think it'll happen, but you never know.

To be honest, I'm kind of excited for a healthy Danks to be back pitching in a rotation with a more experienced Sale.
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  #49  
Old 10-01-2012, 03:56 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
I don't think that two young starting pitchers quantifies as a stable. I agree with you that I don't think there is much point in trading for young bullpen arms as we have a surplus of those right now but I would have no problem trading Dunn for another young starting pitcher and/or young impact position player.
Please. Find me another team in baseball that has two 23-year-old starters on its roster that combined to throw 328.1 IP this year with an combined 3.34 ERA.

I know, I know, KW should have bluechip prospects at all 25 roster spots, otherwise he's a ****ing failure, but it seems like that's a distinction many teams will be hard pressed to meet.
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  #50  
Old 10-01-2012, 04:01 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Please. Find me another team in baseball that has two 23-year-old starters on its roster that combined to throw 328.1 IP this year with an combined 3.34 ERA.

I know, I know, KW should have bluechip prospects at all 25 roster spots, otherwise he's a ****ing failure, but it seems like that's a distinction many teams will be hard pressed to meet.
If you only have two starting pitchers worth a damn you're in trouble. The rotation next year is VERY iffy. You have Sale, Quintana (who might be good but also posted a 5.01 ERA with a 1.6 WHIP in September), Danks - who is coming off of an injury and did not look good when he was healthy, and a maddeningly inconsistent Floyd. Are you going to say that this team couldn't use another young starter? There is no team in baseball that COULDN'T use one.
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  #51  
Old 10-01-2012, 04:09 PM
DeadMoney DeadMoney is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Please. Find me another team in baseball that has two 23-year-old starters on its roster that combined to throw 328.1 IP this year with an combined 3.34 ERA.

I know, I know, KW should have bluechip prospects at all 25 roster spots, otherwise he's a ****ing failure, but it seems like that's a distinction many teams will be hard pressed to meet.
Not QUITE that young, but 26, 26, 26, 23 isn't bad...
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  #52  
Old 10-01-2012, 04:10 PM
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Nellie_Fox Nellie_Fox is offline
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Nobody else in baseball thought Dunn was worth what the Sox offered him two years ago. Why would they think he's worth it now, when he's had one absolutely execrable season and one good half, one bad half-season since?
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  #53  
Old 10-01-2012, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
If you only have two starting pitchers worth a damn you're in trouble. The rotation next year is VERY iffy. You have Sale, Quintana (who might be good but also posted a 5.01 ERA with a 1.6 WHIP in September), Danks - who is coming off of an injury and did not look good when he was healthy, and a maddeningly inconsistent Floyd. Are you going to say that this team couldn't use another young starter? There is no team in baseball that COULDN'T use one.
No. ****ing. ****. I didn't post that the Sox have Sale and Quintana, so we're good with the rotation guys, I'm sure they can each handle 81 starts next year. What I posted was that the Sox's biggest area of need for young, impact players is in the field. With Sale and Quintana that arguably gives the Sox one of the best young 1-2 punch in baseball right now (though, admittedly, most of that rests on Sale who pitched like a legitimate Cy Young candidate for most of the year). There is absolutely nothing of value in the field right now, other than Dayan's in the couple of weeks a year he gets hot and Gordon so long as you don't watch him bat. That's where the Sox need young players.
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  #54  
Old 10-01-2012, 04:13 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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I don't think this team will generate enough buzz to get a big spike in attendance
.
The fans will come back with some exciting free agent signings along with lower ticket and parking prices. They need to build the Season Ticket Base up, lower ticket prices should do that, we also will see a better walk-up crowd with lower prices. The Sox always did great with Walk-ups especially in the old ballpark.
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  #55  
Old 10-01-2012, 04:21 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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No. ****ing. ****. I didn't post that the Sox have Sale and Quintana, so we're good with the rotation guys, I'm sure they can each handle 81 starts next year. What I posted was that the Sox's biggest area of need for young, impact players is in the field. With Sale and Quintana that arguably gives the Sox one of the best young 1-2 punch in baseball right now (though, admittedly, most of that rests on Sale who pitched like a legitimate Cy Young candidate for most of the year). There is absolutely nothing of value in the field right now, other than Dayan's in the couple of weeks a year he gets hot and Gordon so long as you don't watch him bat. That's where the Sox need young players.
My opinion here is that you hold Quintana in too high of regard, I think he is still a bit of a question mark but I don't think he is the kind of guy you can pencil down as a legitimate number two guy yet. He certainly could become that but I think it would be unwise for the White Sox to pencil him as a number two guy for the whole season IF they intend to contend next year. If they want to develop guys and see what they got, then why not.
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  #56  
Old 10-01-2012, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post

My opinion here is that you hold Quintana in too high of regard, I think he is still a bit of a question mark but I don't think he is the kind of guy you can pencil down as a legitimate number two guy yet. He certainly could become that but I think it would be unwise for the White Sox to pencil him as a number two guy for the whole season IF they intend to contend next year. If they want to develop guys and see what they got, then why not.
Maybe I do, but the numbers don't lie, he gave the Sox 150 innings this year with an ERA in the mid-3's... How many 23-year-old pitchers can say that?
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  #57  
Old 10-01-2012, 04:45 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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My guess right now on the rotation next year:

Sale
Quintana
Danks
Floyd
???

Could be Santiago, could be Leesman could be a low cost free agent.

I'm assuming Floyd returns because until Danks actually gets on the mound and starts throwing and is effective, you just don't know what he's going to give you.

Lip
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  #58  
Old 10-01-2012, 04:50 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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The roster is kind of a mess. I'm in favor of a youth movement, as the core is old and not really that good to begin with.

Line up
C - Flowers/vet back up (Paying an old AJ isn't the right move)
1 - Dunn (trade PK for salary dump. Moving Dunn isn't realistic)
2 - Beckham (September was encouraging. His defense is overrated, yet very good)
SS - Ramirez (IF defense is key for a young staff)
3 - Ouch. I really don't know. Sanchez?
LF - De Aza (give the youth some time to catch up)
CF - Thompson or Walker (neither is ready, but their upside is worth the risk IMO)
RF - Viciedo (capitalize on Rios' resurgence. Try to get value)
DH - dreaded rotating DH to maximize match ups

De Aza
Sanchez
Viciedo
Dunn
Flowers
Ramirez
Thompson/Walker
Beckham

God, that line up is awfully RH'd

Starting staff - This is a tough one. They have 5 good starters, but the problem is they'll have 4 lefties.

1 - Sale
2 - Danks
3 - Floyd
4 - Quintana
5 - Santiago

Pen - Build around the kids.

Reed (I still believe in his FB. His slider needs more tilt. He might just be worn out)
Jones (great stuff, needs experience)
Veal (All purpose, nasty lefty)
Thornton (Probably can't get value anyway. Slider looks better at least)

Obviously there are still some roster spots to fill, but this is the core. I'm not naive enough to think this team will be good, it won't. There are still too many guys that don't walk enough and K way, way too much. However, they'll have pop and be very good defensively. They'll be fairly young and exciting. It'll bide time until a very underrated farm develops. Of Thompson, Walker, Mitchell, Barnum and Hawkins, you have a lot of upside and possibly star potential.

Draft

Continue to carry over the new draft philosophy. Use early picks to draft high upside athletes. Use the latter picks to draft high floor baseball players.

Marketing

I'd focus on re-branding to attract a younger crowd. The Sox have a good core of fans, but need to work on a new generation. I'd reduce prices while emphasizing the ballpark experience. They need to advertise tailgating more and have drastically lower ticket prices. They'll take an initial hit, but it's better for the long haul. The park's nice. The amenities are nice. Sell it. Partner with some South Loop establishments for post/pre game entertainment. The park's fun. Try to build a culture around it. If Bridgeport won't embrace it, the South Loop will. Let people know they're a couple train stops away from nightlife.

Lose Hawk and get some knowledgeable, young talent in the booth. The game's changing and the younger crowd is stat crazy. Cater to them a little.

Thankfully for you guys, I'm not in the Sox front office.
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I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
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  #59  
Old 10-01-2012, 04:58 PM
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The window has pretty much closed, IMO. However, if they can somehow restock the SP while keeping the RP good there is room for this team to be competitive for the next year or so. However, it will require the team to once again hit on all cylinders and they are going to have to find a long term answer at 3B and teach Tank the strike zone. Whether Beckham can carry over his offensive success of the last 4-6 weeks of the season will remain to be seen also. He's still not that old nor is he that productive.

I can't see them tearing the whole thing down, but maybe Hahn sees things differently. I imagine one of the issues will be financial. I would bet the Sox have been running a loss the last few years (maybe not this year, but last year) and it's one reason KW has been kicked upstairs (if rumors are correct). If so the Sox maybe cutting payroll or at least not expanding it until they get that money back. However, I admit that's also just a gut feeling. I have nothing concrete to base it on.
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  #60  
Old 10-01-2012, 05:19 PM
COACH2005 COACH2005 is offline
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No way they can trade Dunn unless they eat a lot of the contract
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