If _____ then _____

[jabrch]

Despite rhetoric from both management and fans, what's the real truth?

[DumpJerry]

I put in the Churros option that you forgot.

[WhiteSox5187]

There is no other business in the world that operates under the model of "we will put out a good product once you start to support us." If that is still the White Sox operating principle they are screwed.

[TheOldRoman]

I voted the third option, though I don't know if the large portion of the fanbase is unpredictable as they are fickle. Obviously fans will come out to see a team which just won a World Series, but that isn't the measure of a stable franchise. The Sox have largely failed on the field since 2005, but their attendance has dropped every season since 2006. They won the division in 2008 and drew over 2,000 less per game in 2009. They had a good team which competed in 2010, made a big splash in free agency and increased payroll by $25 million, and still drew 2,000 fewer per game in 2011. Sure, a large portion of that had to due with the team playing so poorly, but even with that, 1) season ticket sales didn't jump before the season, and 2) they weren't out of striking distance until early September. This year the team was in first place for most of the season, but to a large portion of the fanbase, winning baseball was not enough. They needed to be assured of a playoff spot before they bought in.

I think the 2010-11 offseason does a lot to disspell the "we won't spend until you come out" idea. The Sox spent that offseason because the team was good the year before, and they felt they were fixing the huge hole which almost singlehandedly kept them out of the playoffs the year before. There was no attendance bump before or after that, but they spent the money because they felt they had a chance to win a championship (and yes, make more money). People need to realize that ownership does not behave in the same way it did in 1999. They have spent lots of money over the past 8 years. It could be argued that they didn't spend it wisely, should have spent more in scouting, should have improved marketing, etc. but that is a different argument. They have spent money.

[DSpivack]

Originally Posted by DumpJerry

I put in the Churros option that you forgot.

Churros are fried, not baked.

[voodoochile]

The fans will support a winner, but if they don't build a team that looks like a potential pennant contender prior to the season, they won't sell enough season tickets to be able to afford more. You can't pay the rent based on walk-up sales or even on mid-summer advance sales.

[October26]

Originally Posted by DSpivack

Churros are fried, not baked.

Correct. And chocolate-filled churros are the best!

[kobo]

There's no future with this organization. The other side of town made clear their plans, and while I would never spend a lot of money to go see a game if I was a fan, at least there's hope in the future for them. I can respect that and I would be willing to go see a couple games a year because they seem to be moving in the right direction. They appear to be making the right moves. But I'm not a Cubs fan. What are the Sox doing to instill any type of hope in this fanbase? What do we as fans have to look forward to next year and beyond? There's really nothing. The farm system is one of the worst in all of baseball. The current roster is full of veterans who are old and slow and a bunch won't be here next year. Management tells the fanbase through the press that they can't do things if fans don't come to the games, but charge the 4th highest avg ticket price to watch this team in person. The entire organization is a joke right now. There is no direction. There is no hope. IMO, those 2 factors are the main reasons fans are staying away.

[voodoochile]

Originally Posted by kobo

There's no future with this organization. The other side of town made clear their plans, and while I would never spend a lot of money to go see a game if I was a fan, at least there's hope in the future for them. I can respect that and I would be willing to go see a couple games a year because they seem to be moving in the right direction. They appear to be making the right moves. But I'm not a Cubs fan. What are the Sox doing to instill any type of hope in this fanbase? What do we as fans have to look forward to next year and beyond? There's really nothing. The farm system is one of the worst in all of baseball. The current roster is full of veterans who are old and slow and a bunch won't be here next year. Management tells the fanbase through the press that they can't do things if fans don't come to the games, but charge the 4th highest avg ticket price to watch this team in person. The entire organization is a joke right now. There is no direction. There is no hope. IMO, those 2 factors are the main reasons fans are staying away.

The reason this year's attendance never took off is because they didn't seell enough season tickets because no one expected this team to be as competitive as it was. By the time it was clear they were in the hunt school had started up again. Then the team hit the wall.

[The Immigrant]

Originally Posted by kobo

There's no future with this organization. The other side of town made clear their plans, and while I would never spend a lot of money to go see a game if I was a fan, at least there's hope in the future for them. I can respect that and I would be willing to go see a couple games a year because they seem to be moving in the right direction. They appear to be making the right moves. But I'm not a Cubs fan. What are the Sox doing to instill any type of hope in this fanbase? What do we as fans have to look forward to next year and beyond? There's really nothing. The farm system is one of the worst in all of baseball. The current roster is full of veterans who are old and slow and a bunch won't be here next year. Management tells the fanbase through the press that they can't do things if fans don't come to the games, but charge the 4th highest avg ticket price to watch this team in person. The entire organization is a joke right now. There is no direction. There is no hope. IMO, those 2 factors are the main reasons fans are staying away.

That was depressing to read but I don't really disagree with any of it.

[SoxFanCPA]

Originally Posted by voodoochile

The reason this year's attendance never took off is because they didn't seell enough season tickets because no one expected this team to be as competitive as it was. By the time it was clear they were in the hunt school had started up again. Then the team hit the wall.

The school argument is brutal. The real truth is that everyone realized this team wasn't very good. Yeah they were in 1st for a while but they didn't pass the eye test, so people didn't go.

[DumpJerry]

Originally Posted by kobo

There's no future with this organization. The other side of town made clear their plans, and while I would never spend a lot of money to go see a game if I was a fan, at least there's hope in the future for them. I can respect that and I would be willing to go see a couple games a year because they seem to be moving in the right direction. They appear to be making the right moves. But I'm not a Cubs fan. What are the Sox doing to instill any type of hope in this fanbase? What do we as fans have to look forward to next year and beyond? There's really nothing. The farm system is one of the worst in all of baseball. The current roster is full of veterans who are old and slow and a bunch won't be here next year. Management tells the fanbase through the press that they can't do things if fans don't come to the games, but charge the 4th highest avg ticket price to watch this team in person. The entire organization is a joke right now. There is no direction. There is no hope. IMO, those 2 factors are the main reasons fans are staying away.

How many teams won the World Series doing what they Cubs say they are doing? Keep in mind they keep moving the goalposts further and further back. First it was three years, then five. Now they are saying seven. The truth is, they are rolling the dice with this plan.

The Cubs' plan will work if the other 29 teams stop trying to improve themselves. Theo has been stocking up on position players with all his deals, without pitching, the Cubs will get nowhere.

[Thome25]

I voted option #3: "We have a very small fanbase who will come, and a large bandwagon that is unpredictably inconsistent"

I'll be completely and totally honest. Let me state that what I'm about to type below is MY OPINION and may or may not necessarily be fact:

In a market as enormous as Chicago is, it gets EXTREMELY frustrating in my 20+ years as a Sox fan watching this team scrape the bottom of the barrel with it's lack of fan support.

We have a strong yet puny die-hard fanbase (most of which are members of this message board I would suspect) and a bunch of bandwagoners who only support the team when the weather is fair.

In a city and surrounding area the size of Chicago, there are no excuses for this team to be struggling for fans year in and year out.

You can go to the same old arguments all you want, the ownership regime sucks because they pulled the Sox off of free TV and they have the wrong economic philosophy as it pertains to attendance, ticket and parking prices are too high, the economy is bad etc. etc. etc. I say it's all bull****.

This team deserves better than what it gets from a fan perspective in the city of Chicago. Now, don't get me wrong I'm not saying the season ticket holders or fans on this message board are in the wrong because as I stated above, we are part of the die hard portion of the fanbase who bleeds white, black, and silver. But, alas we're in the minority...I've come to the reality that the White Sox fanbase is just too small.

It's extremely sad because there are more than enough current and potential sports fans in the White Sox market to spread the pie a little more evenly.

I've been a White Sox fan for as long as I can remember and I'd like to see what it's like just once....ONCE for MY team to operate like a true big market club and not like a middling or lower half team.

It's sad to me because I love the White Sox and I want so much better for them.

[Golden Sox]

One of these posts said the Cubs at least have a plan and they're sticking to it. Bill Veeck once said "The future is now. Five year plans usually lead to new five year plans." I saw recently that the Cubs listed Brett Jackson as their 3rd best prospect. If he's there 3rd best prospect they have problems in their farm system. He can't hit left handed pitchers and he's basically a utility player. When the day comes Jackson is released by the Cubs he'll be out of baseball. The White Sox has produced more from their farm system recently and it sure is a better system than what the bad guys on the Northside have now. As far as our fanbase, it appears as if our attendance will be somewhere between 2-2.5 million with decent teams. Less than that with real bad teams. We'll draw alot more than 2.5 million after great years. (the attendance almost hit 3 million in 2006) I don't see how anybody can say that we have a small fanbase with these type of numbers. If we played our games in a better location and had lower ticket prices our attendance would increase also. I read sometime this year that Forbes magazine said the White Sox are the 10th in revenues in MLB. With their TV contracts and high ticket prices the White Sox are 10th in revenue. Some teams might outdaw the White Sox but the White Sox are making more money than they are. Believe me if some of those teams who outdraw us ever charged for tickets what the White Sox charge for theirs their attendance would not be as good as it is.

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by kobo

There's no future with this organization. The other side of town made clear their plans, and while I would never spend a lot of money to go see a game if I was a fan, at least there's hope in the future for them. I can respect that and I would be willing to go see a couple games a year because they seem to be moving in the right direction. They appear to be making the right moves. But I'm not a Cubs fan. What are the Sox doing to instill any type of hope in this fanbase? What do we as fans have to look forward to next year and beyond? There's really nothing. The farm system is one of the worst in all of baseball. The current roster is full of veterans who are old and slow and a bunch won't be here next year. Management tells the fanbase through the press that they can't do things if fans don't come to the games, but charge the 4th highest avg ticket price to watch this team in person. The entire organization is a joke right now. There is no direction. There is no hope. IMO, those 2 factors are the main reasons fans are staying away.

That's a bunch of crap. This idea that the Cubs are just guaranteed to be good in a few years because they're racking up the 100-loss seasons now is just absurdity.

What did the Sox do to instill hope in people? Uh, they spent the majority of the season in 1st place, and don't give me this "well, uh, everyone knew they weren't going to be very good," which is crap-o-la because the Sox were neck and neck with NY and Texas for most of the season, as well.

This is the same old tired whiny high school drama queen crap that was posted last year, the Sox need to burn the whole thing down and try to start over from scratch, we need to lose 100 games to get better, etc. It's all crap. The Sox need to make some moves to improve the club, but they don't need to make DRASTIC, SWEEPING changes.