To What Degree Do the White Sox Need a COMPLETE Overhaul?

[JB98]

Originally Posted by Noneck

I have already read from a couple posters that they think Dunn has potential return in a trade. I dont think so and remember, everything that we see in Dunn, major league GMs see also. A salary dump maybe but getting pieces, I doubt that.

Well, you're not going to get an everyday middle-of-the-order hitter in return, that's for sure. I think you might be able to get a relief pitcher and a fifth infielder or something like that for Dunn. Not splash acquisitions, but useful parts that this team needs. Then, you get the salary relief and look to fill other holes.

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by Noneck

I have already read from a couple posters that they think Dunn has potential return in a trade. I dont think so and remember, everything that we see in Dunn, major league GMs see also. A salary dump maybe but getting pieces, I doubt that.

Ha ha, if AJ and Youk depart via free agency, as expected, trading away Dunn would remove the Sox's 3rd, 4th, and 5th most productive hitters from this season. I can't wait to see everyone's reaction to that.

[24thStFan]

Originally Posted by JB98

I think the Sox are set at four positions next year: 1B, 2B, SS and RF....

You face free-agency decisions on Youkilis and Pierzynski. At least one will leave, if not both...

Offensively, as a whole, you've got a low OBP team. You've got a slow team. They hit a lot of home runs, but they lack balance and struggle to score in other ways... I think the Sox need to sacrifice some power to get more speed and OBP in the lineup.

Excellent analysis and I agree totally with the points I quoted.

We need a high OBP 3B, but I'm not sure who is available via free agency who meets the criteria. I'd keep AJ at catcher. He's had a great year and I think he handles young pitchers very well.

I'd let Peavy and Floyd go, and take my chances that Cooper can develop some of our younger guys and any new pitchers brought in as free agents. He's had some success doing this in the past.

That leaves De Aza and Viciedo. Both had some hot streaks this year and might have some trade value. But both are relatively young and could develop further. I really am unsure about what to do with these two.

[SoxSpeed22]

I agree that we are sorely lacking a franchise face, Konerko is a great player, but he is a fall in line type of person (here's hoping Courtney Hawkins becomes that guy ), but a lot of things have to change offensively in order for them to turn into a legit contender for a while. There must be more balance in this lineup in order to have more consistency.
With the pitching staff, there are plenty of young guys, but we should no longer rely on other team's castoffs/baggage. We might be okay with pitching as long as there are no catastrophic injuries.
As for the coaches, Robin and Manto will have to take some heat for the way things went this month. Robin will have to learn that the team will take on his personality, if he panics and overcorrects like he did in September, the results will follow.
So to answer the initial question, this is not a patch a few holes situation, this is a redo parts of the foundation.

[aryzner]

Originally Posted by 24thStFan

We need a high OBP 3B, but I'm not sure who is available via free agency who meets the criteria.

At a quick glance at what I could find by searching just now, you aren't gonna find that via free agency.

[JB98]

Originally Posted by doublem23

Ha ha, if AJ and Youk depart via free agency, as expected, trading away Dunn would remove the Sox's 3rd, 4th, and 5th most productive hitters from this season. I can't wait to see everyone's reaction to that.

Well, it depends on how those players are replaced. I remember I had an absolute meltdown when Carlos Lee was traded after the 2004 season. I thought, "No way they can replace the production of both Lee AND Ordonez."

I don't know that they replaced the production, per se, but they changed the mix and they won with it. Right now, I'm thinking they need to change the mix. That's an easy thing for me to post on a message board and a hard thing for a GM to do, of course. Geez, Youk is likely gonna walk, and what do you do at 3B? We have nothing in the organization, and the best available 3B in free agency is, well, none other than Youk. Tough situation there.

I think you have to explore trading Dunn, because if his 40 HRs has value to the Sox, then maybe it will have value to somebody else too. And maybe you change the makeup of the team and can get the salary relief you need to fix the holes in the roster. But maybe NoNeck is right and Dunn has no value to other GMs. I'm not sure.

We're all talking out our asses here, and it will be interesting to see what the Sox actually do.

[aryzner]

According to Cot's, these are the FA third basemen in 2013:

* – player whose current contract includes 2013 option

Geoff Blum
Miguel Cairo
Eric Chavez
Mark DeRosa
Brandon Inge *
Maicer Izturis
Chipper Jones *
Kevin Kouzmanoff
Jose Lopez
Placido Polanco *
Mark Reynolds *
Scott Rolen
Ty Wigginton
David Wright *
Kevin Youkilis *

[October26]

Originally Posted by tebman

No doubt about it (to quote Frank Thomas). The Sox need bold moves to get out of their malaise. The baseball team obviously has to be the first priority and maybe the movement of Rick Hahn into the GM chair will make a difference; at least we can hope so. I think letting A.J. walk would be a mistake, but I'd say let the other free agents go. Maybe the Yankees would be interested in Dunn. Maybe Boston would be interested in Floyd. Neither team is averse to big contracts. I'm thinking out loud here.

The Sox don't have a buzz that gets people excited. Those of us who are deep-rooted fans will always be around but the Sox also have to compete for attention from casual fans and the generally curious.

Dan McGrath wrote a piece in the Sun-Times a couple of weeks ago suggesting that the Sox hire John McDonough away from the Blackhawks. His argument is that McDonough is very good at what he does (Cubs, Hawks) and he's a legitimate Sox fan to boot. I don't know if he's the answer or not, but it's that kind of thinking the Sox need.

Despite their comically bad record the Cubs successfully occupied a position that puts them, or more specifically their ballpark, in the center of a young-adult Neverland of good times and recreational comfort. They don't deserve it, of course, but life ain't fair. The Sox need to create their own buzz and it has to be a combination of good baseball and an unapologetic identity. It'll take time but I really think it can be done.

I agree with this post, especially the part about life not being fair. I am also hopeful that the Sox can create this identify of which you speak. And we both know from experience that winning cures all ills.

[tstrike2000]

Originally Posted by JB98

Well, it depends on how those players are replaced. I remember I had an absolute meltdown when Carlos Lee was traded after the 2004 season. I thought, "No way they can replace the production of both Lee AND Ordonez."

I don't know that they replaced the production, per se, but they changed the mix and they won with it. Right now, I'm thinking they need to change the mix. That's an easy thing for me to post on a message board and a hard thing for a GM to do, of course. Geez, Youk is likely gonna walk, and what do you do at 3B? We have nothing in the organization, and the best available 3B in free agency is, well, none other than Youk. Tough situation there.

I think you have to explore trading Dunn, because if his 40 HRs has value to the Sox, then maybe it will have value to somebody else too. And maybe you change the makeup of the team and can get the salary relief you need to fix the holes in the roster. But maybe NoNeck is right and Dunn has no value to other GMs. I'm not sure.

We're all talking out our asses here, and it will be interesting to see what the Sox actually do.

With Dunn owed 15 million for both '13 and '14, I wouldn't imagine anyone would bite on that one.

[bigsoxfan420]

I'm thinking MBA.

[tstrike2000]

Originally Posted by bigsoxfan420

I'm thinking MBA.

Kellogg, if you can get in there.

[FielderJones]

Originally Posted by tebman

Dan McGrath wrote a piece in the Sun-Times a couple of weeks ago suggesting that the Sox hire John McDonough away from the Blackhawks. His argument is that McDonough is very good at what he does (Cubs, Hawks) and he's a legitimate Sox fan to boot. I don't know if he's the answer or not, but it's that kind of thinking the Sox need.

I think there is no question that McDonough is very good at what he does, and has a track record. Consider what he was given to work with in the two franchises he has marketed. If JR really is interested in putting fans in the seats, this would be his number one move.

[Domeshot17]

Need an impact hitter at 3b, that needs to be the goal. The only way you can stomach Gordon Beckham's offense is with him hitting 9th and it not making much difference. His D is great, but if you have someone that weak in the lineup, you can't be weak at a bunch of other positions. I don't see them letting Tank go early in his career, although I would consider it.

But the Sox lack a hitter who can carry the team. I would consider a run at David Wright personally.

Its also the type of move that can fire up a fan base. The reason the fans did not come out was there was not much to ever be that excited about. I know they had a nice stretch in first place, but had the Tigers ever really tried, they would have buried us long ago. Most fans knew this and it was hard to really believe in this team. Even with getting Youk, Brett Meyers, these are not moves that fire up the fans.

I think Brooks needs to go personally, The guy would be better off Marketing for the Cubs, but he is so hell bent on changing the fan base that it prevents him from getting in touch with who Sox fans really are. He has no idea what his target market is.

[JB98]

Originally Posted by tstrike2000

With Dunn owed 15 million for both '13 and '14, I wouldn't imagine anyone would bite on that one.

Maybe not, but I think the Sox should try. All it takes is one GM who thinks 40 HRs and 100 RBIs is worth a $15 million per year investment.

[JB98]

Originally Posted by Domeshot17

Need an impact hitter at 3b, that needs to be the goal. The only way you can stomach Gordon Beckham's offense is with him hitting 9th and it not making much difference. His D is great, but if you have someone that weak in the lineup, you can't be weak at a bunch of other positions. I don't see them letting Tank go early in his career, although I would consider it.

But the Sox lack a hitter who can carry the team. I would consider a run at David Wright personally.

Its also the type of move that can fire up a fan base. The reason the fans did not come out was there was not much to ever be that excited about. I know they had a nice stretch in first place, but had the Tigers ever really tried, they would have buried us long ago. Most fans knew this and it was hard to really believe in this team. Even with getting Youk, Brett Meyers, these are not moves that fire up the fans.

I think Brooks needs to go personally, The guy would be better off Marketing for the Cubs, but he is so hell bent on changing the fan base that it prevents him from getting in touch with who Sox fans really are. He has no idea what his target market is.

Who wouldn't? Is it a given the Mets are going to decline the team option?