What Stage Are You In Today?

[JB98]

Originally Posted by mahagga73

Congrats to you on being Mr. Sunshine blind optimistic also. I agree with everything he said, and we both have recent history to back it up . You ,my friend ,can continue to be happy with just getting close, a lot of us on the other hand would like to see an occassional playoff series, you know, like good teams do. Every year it's the same song repeated over and over, this year was later because of Tiger incompetence they couldn't take advantage of . Am maybe looking forward to KW and his repeating .500 record stepping down and seeing what Hahn can do, there needs to be a new direction, this team has not had the look of a WS contender in many years.

No you don't. Go ahead and post your "recent history." I'll guarantee you either myself or doublem23 will defeat your "fire and passion" arguments with facts. As a matter of fact, doublem defeated your argument in huge, black font a few posts previous. Keep coming with your emotional stuff though. The Sox would be in the playoffs if the players cared, or if the players had tried harder against bad teams, or if Ditka were in charge. GRRRRR. Woof, woof, woof.

I'm a blind optimist, huh?

Comedy gold right there. Ask my family, my co-workers or my girlfriend about what an "optimist" I am. Any of them will tell you I'm intolerable to be around at times because I get so pessimistic during and after losses.

[mahagga73]

Originally Posted by doublem23

Yeah, the Sox were in 1st place for only what? The majority of the season? How can fans be expected to get behind that?

so what, THEY CHOKED...AGAIN. If that is your version of success have at it. Being bridesmaid or second best, you sound like a Cub fan.

[mahagga73]

Originally Posted by JB98

No you don't. Go ahead and post your "recent history." I'll guarantee you either myself or doublem23 will defeat your "fire and passion" arguments with facts. As a matter of fact, doublem defeated your argument in huge, black font a few posts previous. Keep coming with your emotional stuff though. The Sox would be in the playoffs if the players cared, or if the players had tried harder against bad teams, or if Ditka were in charge. GRRRRR. Woof, woof, woof.

I'm a blind optimist, huh?

Comedy gold right there. Ask my family, my co-workers or my girlfriend about what an "optimist" I am. Any of them will tell you I'm intolerable to be around at times because I get so pessimistic during and after losses.

whatever, you keep on believing your nonsense and think you are smarter than everybody.Fact is fact, the Sox blew it once again. Even your brain cell cannot deny that.

[mahagga73]

Originally Posted by doublem23

THE SOX'S RECORD AGAINST SUB-.500 TEAMS IS BETTER THAN DETROIT'S

HOW. MANY. ****ING. TIMES. DOES. THIS. NEED. TO. BE. POSTED.

Do you argue with gravity? Did you still not believe 2+2=4 (Hint: It is). You can make up whatever GRRRRRRR WE'RE NOT GRINDY ENOUGH garbage you want but the fact is if the Sox and Tigers just got to play bad teams all year, we'd be the one going to the playoffs right now.

yeah, but they blew it.They played horribly in September, you know , like when it counts. I don't care what their record was against anybody. They play virtually the same schedule and the Sox had the lead all year and blew up once again at the end. When you and your other buddie JB98 on this thread see Detroit in the playoffs in a week or so it may finally dawn on you, yeah they choked. But you two keep touting your , "but we were in contention" loser mentality if that's what you want to do to make you think this season was a success. Your argument makes zero sense, you can twist records against all you want ,but the bottomline is, no Sox in Playoffs once again.

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by mahagga73

yeah, but they blew it.They played horribly in September, you know , like when it counts. I don't care what their record was against anybody. They play virtually the same schedule and the Sox had the lead all year and blew up once again at the end. When you and your other buddie JB98 on this thread see Detroit in the playoffs in a week or so it may finally dawn on you, yeah they choked. But you two keep touting your , "but we were in contention" loser mentality if that's what you want to do to make you think this season was a success. Your argument makes zero sense, you can twist records against all you want ,but the bottomline is, no Sox in Playoffs once again.

Are you not literate? Please point to where either me or my buddie [sic] are arguing the Sox didn't choke. We're only arguing what the reasons behind that choke was and how the team can move forward in the future. Saying "oh well, bla bla bla, I knew the Sox were doomed when they lost 2 of 3 to Houston because HOW COULD A TEAM BE EXPECTED TO MAKE THE PLAY-OFFS WHEN THEY LOSE GAMES TO BAD TEAMS????" is pure and UTTER bull**** because AGAIN - THE SOX PLAYED BAD TEAMS BETTER THAN THE TIGERS DID THIS YEAR. That's the only argument. The Sox's problem wasn't that they didn't have "killer instinct" or "Chicago tough man balls" or "adult diapers to prevent pants pissing and/or bed crapping." The problem was they just weren't good enough in many aspects of the game. The hitters slumped. The pitchers wore out. The manager made some pretty whacky decisions these last couple of weeks." Blame it on **** that actually happened, not made up fairytale nonsense that doesn't mesh with this thing that I like to call "reality" (for more reading, click here) just so you can go back and link to some post from 3 months ago and declare yourself the Prophet of Pants Pissing. A) Nobody cares and B) even fewer people care when your arguments are D-E-D wrong.

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by mahagga73

so what, THEY CHOKED...AGAIN. If that is your version of success have at it. Being bridesmaid or second best, you sound like a Cub fan.

Yeah, we all know they choked but that basically happened over what? The last 1/2 of September? Where the **** was everybody for the previous, I don't know, 100 days when they weren't choking?

I don't want this to turn into another attendance thread, I understand there are plenty of reasons for people to go and not go to the games, that's all fine, but don't give me this crap that the Sox just need to "put a team on the field people want to root for" and people will just start magically showing up. They did it this year and the Sox had their worst season at the gate since 2004. Obviously whatever is not working is not related to the team's performance, since the Sox gave their fans a team that was in 1st place for the majority of the season and people still couldn't be bothered to show the **** up. We all like to pat ourselves on the back that Sox fans "don't support mediocrity" but will come out for a winner. Maybe not.

[mahagga73]

Originally Posted by doublem23

Are you not literate? Please point to where either me or my buddie [sic] are arguing the Sox didn't choke. We're only arguing what the reasons behind that choke was and how the team can move forward in the future. Saying "oh well, bla bla bla, I knew the Sox were doomed when they lost 2 of 3 to Houston because HOW COULD A TEAM BE EXPECTED TO MAKE THE PLAY-OFFS WHEN THEY LOSE GAMES TO BAD TEAMS????" is pure and UTTER bull**** because AGAIN - THE SOX PLAYED BAD TEAMS BETTER THAN THE TIGERS DID THIS YEAR. That's the only argument. The Sox's problem wasn't that they didn't have "killer instinct" or "Chicago tough man balls" or "adult diapers to prevent pants pissing and/or bed crapping." The problem was they just weren't good enough in many aspects of the game. The hitters slumped. The pitchers wore out. The manager made some pretty whacky decisions these last couple of weeks." Blame it on **** that actually happened, not made up fairytale nonsense that doesn't mesh with this thing that I like to call "reality" (for more reading, click here) just so you can go back and link to some post from 3 months ago and declare yourself the Prophet of Pants Pissing. A) Nobody cares and B) even fewer people care when your arguments are D-E-D wrong.

You are putting lipstick on a pig. You can try and insult my intelligence all you want for your ridiculous argument if it makes you feel better. Reality is this, White Sox hitting golf courses, Tigers in playoffs. It had nothing to do with burnout, running out of gas, experience, whatever. They should have won that division with cushion to spare. Your excuses are BS. You are making excuses for the choke job.

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by mahagga73

You are putting lipstick on a pig. You can try and insult my intelligence all you want for your ridiculous argument if it makes you feel better. Reality is this, White Sox hitting golf courses, Tigers in playoffs. It had nothing to do with burnout, running out of gas, experience, whatever. They should have won that division with cushion to spare. Your excuses are BS.

THAT IS NOT THE ARGUMENT

What are you reading? AGAIN, who has said that the Sox DIDN'T CHOKE? We're all in agreement they should have clinched this division a week ago. The discussion in this thread, when not being railroaded by a broken record sidetrack is, WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY. Saying the Sox's collapse in September was all mental and none physical IS ****ING ****. It's ****ing **** for people who don't understand this sport and just spout off a bunch of idiotic buzzwords they hear from dimwit talking heads on daytime ESPN TV.

[JB98]

Originally Posted by mahagga73

whatever, you keep on believing your nonsense and think you are smarter than everybody.Fact is fact, the Sox blew it once again. Even your brain cell cannot deny that.

Find me the post where I denied that the Sox blew it. I've stated multiple times on this board that the Sox choked. You can check my posting record if you don't believe me.

This has nothing to do with "being satisfied" with second place, or being a "blind homer," or any of these other accusations.

The fact of the matter is, this whole "the Sox weren't fired up enough to play bad teams" argument is ridiculous on its face. I find it hysterical somebody would assert the Sox lost to Cleveland this week because "they thought they could just show up and win."

I would argue the Sox lost two games to Cleveland because they had two starting pitchers get knocked out early in the game, which has been a common theme down the stretch. You're not going to win many games against anybody when your starting pitcher can't make it through the fifth inning. No amount of heart and balls is going to overcome bad starting pitching. I'm sorry. But that's how it is.

[Lip Man 1]

When you can't even put together back to back winning seasons anymore, when you go to the playoffs one time since 2008 and only three times since the three division format went into play in 1994, with respect, you are going to have issues getting fans out consistently.

Here's all you need to know, they drew almost three million in 2006 after winning the World Series. Coincidence? I don't think so.

And assuming Detroit gets to the playoffs this year, here's some numbers to think about since the new century began in this division:

Playoff appearances:

Sox - three (00,05,08)
Cleve. - two (01,07)
Minn. - six (02,03,04,06,09,10)
Det. - three (06,11,12)

If you go back to the start of the three divisional format the numbers are even worse for the Sox compared to the other clubs in the division.

There's something wrong when smaller market teams like Cleveland and Minnesota figure out how to dominate the division but the Sox can't and haven't even come close to doing so.

I write this simply to say it wouldn't be wise to dismiss the on field performance as a big reason for the Sox attendance issues.

Lip

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by Lip Man 1

Here's all you need to know, they drew almost three million in 2006 after winning the World Series. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Right, but does that have to do with Sox fans' spontaneous ability to show up when the team is winning or is it more just thanks to the marketing of playoff and World Series tickets that drew fans to the park? I mean, if the Sox need to win the World Series every year to generate buzz then we're ****ed and may as well just stop having these conversations.

[WhiteSox5187]

Originally Posted by doublem23

Right, but does that have to do with Sox fans' spontaneous ability to show up when the team is winning or is it more just thanks to the marketing of playoff and World Series tickets that drew fans to the park? I mean, if the Sox need to win the World Series every year to generate buzz then we're ****ed and may as well just stop having these conversations.

I think his point isn't that they need to constantly win the World Series but the White Sox need to have a sustained period of winning (and by winning I mean making the playoffs) in order to excite the fan base. Since 2005 the Sox have been about a .500 club and what .500 club manages to draw over 30,000 consistently? If the White Sox could go on a stretch like the Indians had in the 1990s or the Twins had in the early 2000s or even like the Tigers are having now, even if they don't win a single playoff series, I think their attendance issues will more or less disappear. But one trip to the playoffs once every four years by a team that wins 88 games in a bad division just isn't going to cut it for this fan base.

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187

I think his point isn't that they need to constantly win the World Series but the White Sox need to have a sustained period of winning (and by winning I mean making the playoffs) in order to excite the fan base. Since 2005 the Sox have been about a .500 club and what .500 club manages to draw over 30,000 consistently? If the White Sox could go on a stretch like the Indians had in the 1990s or the Twins had in the early 2000s or even like the Tigers are having now, even if they don't win a single playoff series, I think their attendance issues will more or less disappear. But one trip to the playoffs once every four years by a team that wins 88 games in a bad division just isn't going to cut it for this fan base.

What a crock of ****. The Sox need to go on an extended run like the '90s Indians or '00 Twins? Well then we're ****ed, because the reason you can name those teams so easily off the top of your head is that IT DOESN'T HAPPEN THAT OFTEN. I'm not saying the Sox aren't to take some blame for the attendance issues (though, as previously noted, I'm not entirely sure this isn't their plan all along anyway), but there's also a hefty amount of responsibility on the fanbase. For years, it's been the same old same old bull****, Oh, we don't come out if the team's not winning... Guess what? The Sox spent most of the season in 1st place, had the 3rd best record in the AL as late as the middle of August, and people still didn't bother to show up. So whatever the problem is, that's not it.

[WhiteSox5187]

Originally Posted by doublem23

What a crock of ****. The Sox need to go on an extended run like the '90s Indians or '00 Twins? Well then we're ****ed, because the reason you can name those teams so easily off the top of your head is that IT DOESN'T HAPPEN THAT OFTEN. I'm not saying the Sox aren't to take some blame for the attendance issues (though, as previously noted, I'm not entirely sure this isn't their plan all along anyway), but there's also a hefty amount of responsibility on the fanbase. For years, it's been the same old same old bull****, Oh, we don't come out if the team's not winning... Guess what? The Sox spent most of the season in 1st place, had the 3rd best record in the AL as late as the middle of August, and people still didn't bother to show up. So whatever the problem is, that's not it.

A big part of the problem with attendance issues this year is that in today's ticket market you don't get a lot of help from walk up sales. It's all about advance ticket sales and when you look at where the expectations for this team were in April it stands to reason that the advance tickets sales would be low. Those low expectations coupled with the fact that the White Sox have the fourth highest ticket price in baseball hurt the Sox tremendously. Then when the Sox were winning they did little to reduce ticket prices or come up with some other incentive to bring fans to the ball park, when they did have those incentives it was announced once on Twitter and that was it. In a series against the Blue Jays they had a $5 upper deck ticket promotion that was announced maybe twice on Twitter (I knew about it because I read it here) and sure enough the upper deck was largely filled. They never revisited that though. Another thing to look at this year was the advertising, there were no advertisements on TV that predominately featured the players (other than still stock photos as witnessed by baby Henry). Compare that to the last time the White Sox made the playoffs in 2008, that year the White Sox were filming commercials featuring players and the mayor of Chicago. I think having the same four ads running all season long (much like last year) hurt this team as well.

Finally, if you had read the post I said that a run like the Tigers are having of late would help the Sox immensely too. If you think that it is too much to ask for a franchise to have back to back playoff appearances than I guess we will have to agree to disagree but off the top of my head in the past ten years I can think of at least nine teams that have made the playoffs in back to back years and of those nine five teams have made it to the playoffs three times in the last five years, so what I am asking is not as rare as you would have it seem, but for this franchise it is evidently too much to ask.

[mahagga73]

Originally Posted by doublem23

What a crock of ****. The Sox need to go on an extended run like the '90s Indians or '00 Twins? Well then we're ****ed, because the reason you can name those teams so easily off the top of your head is that IT DOESN'T HAPPEN THAT OFTEN. I'm not saying the Sox aren't to take some blame for the attendance issues (though, as previously noted, I'm not entirely sure this isn't their plan all along anyway), but there's also a hefty amount of responsibility on the fanbase. For years, it's been the same old same old bull****, Oh, we don't come out if the team's not winning... Guess what? The Sox spent most of the season in 1st place, had the 3rd best record in the AL as late as the middle of August, and people still didn't bother to show up. So whatever the problem is, that's not it.

The Sox do a poor job marketing the team out of Chicago even though all 162 games are on TV downstate. . Half the people that go to Cardinals and Cubs games are from out of state or downstate. There are not nearly as many coming from downstate and out of state to the Cell , even though it is just as good or better a place to see a game and easy to get too. I'm not sure I buy the overpriced ticket theory because I get tickets for next to nothing on Stubhub.