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  #61  
Old 09-09-2012, 02:06 AM
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Nellie_Fox Nellie_Fox is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
You would have been fine if they were in a similar situation, the White Sox in September 2005 benched Mark Buehrle (just as a hypothetical)? Or if the Sox shut down Chris Sale this fall, even if they had topped Detroit in the AL Central? I can't think of any precedent for this, nor can I think of any real good reason for it.
Buehrle and Sale weren't/aren't coming off Tommy John surgery. That's the reason for it; I'll let you form your own opinion as to whether it's a "real good" one.
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  #62  
Old 09-09-2012, 02:11 AM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox View Post
Buehrle and Sale weren't/aren't coming off Tommy John surgery. That's the reason for it; I'll let you form your own opinion as to whether it's a "real good" one.
Yeah, I know, I meant if they were in the same situation as Strasburg. Though I think the comparison to Sale and Medlen is a fair one (though as you say, of course inexact because of Strasburg's injury history); while Sale is at 163 IP, Medlen is at just 104 IP. I think the Nats had other options here to both limit the youngster's innings as well as have him pitch in the postseason.
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  #63  
Old 09-09-2012, 02:38 AM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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Some say he is the Nationals 4th best pitcher.

1. Gio Gonzalez
18-7w/l 2.98era 175ip 134era+ 3.8war
2. Jordan Zimmerman
10-8w/l 2.99era 171ip 134era+ 3.4war
3. Ross Detwiler
9-6w/l 3.15era 140ip 127era+ 2.2war
Stephen Strasburg
15-6w/l 3.16era 159ip 126era+ 2.6war

I would say he's the Nationals third best pitcher but it might not hurt em as much as some may think in the playoffs.

Last edited by chicagowhitesox1; 09-09-2012 at 02:57 AM.
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  #64  
Old 09-09-2012, 08:15 AM
wassagstdu wassagstdu is offline
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Could it be that this decision is less about limiting his innings per se and more about setting him up for an extended off-season?
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  #65  
Old 09-09-2012, 09:18 AM
34rancher 34rancher is offline
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Originally Posted by wassagstdu View Post
Could it be that this decision is less about limiting his innings per se and more about setting him up for an extended off-season?
See I'm with you and confused. Why not shut him down for 3 weeks and have him start getting ready for playoffs in month? That should be more than enough time for strengthening.
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  #66  
Old 09-09-2012, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1 View Post
Some say he is the Nationals 4th best pitcher.

1. Gio Gonzalez
18-7w/l 2.98era 175ip 134era+ 3.8war
2. Jordan Zimmerman
10-8w/l 2.99era 171ip 134era+ 3.4war
3. Ross Detwiler
9-6w/l 3.15era 140ip 127era+ 2.2war
Stephen Strasburg
15-6w/l 3.16era 159ip 126era+ 2.6war

I would say he's the Nationals third best pitcher but it might not hurt em as much as some may think in the playoffs.
Look at the K/9 IP, BB/9 IP, and K/BB ratios, if you're talking about a do or die game, he's the guy in Washington's rotation you want pitching
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  #67  
Old 09-09-2012, 10:02 AM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by 34rancher View Post
See I'm with you and confused. Why not shut him down for 3 weeks and have him start getting ready for playoffs in month? That should be more than enough time for strengthening.
Shutting him down for a month, then starting him without Spring training might be the worst thing they can do to his arm.
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I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
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  #68  
Old 09-09-2012, 10:29 AM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Look at the K/9 IP, BB/9 IP, and K/BB ratios, if you're talking about a do or die game, he's the guy in Washington's rotation you want pitching
I know I would want him in there but these other pitchers they have are pretty good. I think the Nationals without Strasburg still have the strongest staff. The Giants would be the most comparable but I would still take the Nationals in overall pitching.

Gio Gonzalez over Matt Cain
Jordan Zimmerman over Madison Bumgarner
Ross Deitwiler over Ryan Vogelsong
Edwin Jackson would be a push vs Tim Lincecum or Barry Zito
Nationals Bullpen over Giants Bullpen
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  #69  
Old 09-09-2012, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
Shutting him down for a month, then starting him without Spring training might be the worst thing they can do to his arm.
Not really.

I'm still trying to figure out how the only athletes that haven't gotten stronger with more stamina with the advances we have in nutrition and medical science are major league pitchers.
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  #70  
Old 09-09-2012, 01:53 PM
thomas35forever thomas35forever is offline
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Not really.

I'm still trying to figure out how the only athletes that haven't gotten stronger with more stamina with the advances we have in nutrition and medical science are major league pitchers.
It's amazing how pitchers used to be able to pitch both games of doubleheaders and they suddenly can't do anything close to that anymore. Is it the agents/general managers behind it or what?
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  #71  
Old 09-09-2012, 02:07 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Jollyroger2 View Post
I haven't heard a single person or media rep label the Nats a garbage team...not sure where that's coming from. ...

I've been reading all season that the Orioles are a garbage team because of where they were in previous years and that the Royals are a garbage team because they have been losing for years and got off to a rough start this year. I assumed people held the Nationals to the same standard.

Pitching, starting pitching more than relief pitching, is the most fragile commodity there is in baseball. Strasburg isn't being shut down because he is hurt. He is being shut down, from his agent's perspective, because if he pitches less he will be able to make more money in the future. And, of course, if he can get more money by not pitching, there is no reason to pitch and risk showing that he can't perform when the season is on the line. Really, if the Nationals don't need Strasburg, they really don't need to pay him what they are paying him now.

The team has a chance to win a championship. If it doesn't, the players will gain the experience of competing for a championship. If Strasburg is an important part of the pitching staff, if he isn't injured, you don't shut him down in his first pennant race.
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  #72  
Old 09-09-2012, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
It's amazing how pitchers used to be able to pitch both games of doubleheaders and they suddenly can't do anything close to that anymore. Is it the agents/general managers behind it or what?
The mid seventies Baltimore Orioles and the advent of free agency share the majority of the blame.
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  #73  
Old 09-09-2012, 04:14 PM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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The mid seventies Baltimore Orioles and the advent of free agency share the majority of the blame.
Are you saying the Orioles are to blame because they threw alot of complete games?

I would say Billy Martin's Athletic teams in the early 80's was what really made managers look differently on how they used starting pitching. Especially younger pitchers. Martin blew out every arm on that staff.
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  #74  
Old 09-09-2012, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1 View Post
Are you saying the Orioles are to blame because they threw alot of complete games?

I would say Billy Martin's Athletic teams in the early 80's was what really made managers look differently on how they used starting pitching. Especially younger pitchers. Martin blew out every arm on that staff.
No, the Orioles started the five man rotation, which every team had to copycat, soon after that free agency was established and starting pitcher rapidly become the most expensive part of every team's roster. In an effort to "protect" that investment they came up with the nonsense of pitch counts and inning limits, instead of actually working pitchers to strengthen them. The downward spiral keeps continuing.
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  #75  
Old 09-09-2012, 04:33 PM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Daver View Post
No, the Orioles started the five man rotation, which every team had to copycat, soon after that free agency was established and starting pitcher rapidly become the most expensive part of every team's roster. In an effort to "protect" that investment they came up with the nonsense of pitch counts and inning limits, instead of actually working pitchers to strengthen them. The downward spiral keeps continuing.
I forgot about Weaver and his pitch counts. It's strange because those Orioles still threw alot of complete games in those days. But your right that had to be the start of coddling pitchers.
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