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  #46  
Old 09-07-2012, 02:35 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by Jollyroger2 View Post
He's their marquee name pitcher but the other four starters have ERAs of 2.99, 2.98, 3.63 and 3.15, all four with 140-175 innings pitched so far. This isn't a situation like the Sox where they have Peavy and then Sale/Quintana who are tiring and then fill in the blank.

The conception that the Nationals are SS and a bunch of stiffs still seems to be what most in the media think. As if he's the only one responsible for them being now 33 games over .500.
Of course that's not the case. But I don't know of many (or any) playoff teams in baseball history that willingly and voluntarily benched their otherwise healthy ace both down the stretch and in the playoffs.

I don't see how this helps the team with the current best record in baseball win a World Series title.
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  #47  
Old 09-07-2012, 03:19 PM
TDog TDog is online now
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
Of course that's not the case. But I don't know of many (or any) playoff teams in baseball history that willingly and voluntarily benched their otherwise healthy ace both down the stretch and in the playoffs.

I don't see how this helps the team with the current best record in baseball win a World Series title.
If Strasburg had sustained an injury or had been suspended for the rest of the season, fans would be mourning his loss, and the media would be discussing how much this would hurt the team. Strangely enough, the two Bay Area teams that lost important components to contending teams are actually better teams, or at least more successfu teams, without the players the league suspended.

What bothers me is the idea that great pitchers are better off not pitching. It isn't that Strasburg is unhealthy. There is the idea that he could be if he continues to pitch, although his original injury had nothing to do with overwork and there is no concern about overwork affecting others who have to pick up more of the load. Fortunately for the Giants, Buster Posey, coming off of his serios injury, only has to worry about catching and the occasional day off at first base.

Actually, I would like to see the Tigers shut down Justin Verlander. He has pitched so much over the past two years, and every time he goes out there, his chances of injury increase (just ask Brandon McCarthy). But, really, this entire concept of Strasburg being too special a pitcher to pitch has me really hating the Nationals.

It would be tragically comedic, more tragic in a dramatic sense, where choices made by (or for) the tragic figure lead to his demise, if Strasburg came back next year and developed arm trouble in May, or even if Gonzalez came up with an injury. The Nationals are acting as if winning this year doesn't matter. Some would label them a garbage team, though, considering how long it's been since they have been to the postseason.

The Nationals used to be a feel good story.
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  #48  
Old 09-07-2012, 07:35 PM
Jollyroger2 Jollyroger2 is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
Of course that's not the case. But I don't know of many (or any) playoff teams in baseball history that willingly and voluntarily benched their otherwise healthy ace both down the stretch and in the playoffs.

I don't see how this helps the team with the current best record in baseball win a World Series title.
Well and there's the question, is he the ace? Gonzalez is 18-7 with a 2.98 ERA and could also lay claim to that. And Strasburg is getting shelled again tonight. Now in two of his last three starts he's looked below average. Is he tiring? Who knows. And he's only throwing 5/6 innings per start anyway. Tonight he lasted just 3 innings.

His ERA is comparable to every other starting pitcher Washington has. I think people still think he's 15-1 with a 1-something ERA and striking out 12 guys a night, which isn't the case. He's been good but not overpowering.

I think people are reading too much into this. They did exactly the same thing with J. Zimmerman last year after the same kind of surgery, protecting an investment. They'd have done this if the Nats were in 1st or 4th place and they've said so all along. Maybe him getting rocked a few times is evidence that something isn't quite right.
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  #49  
Old 09-07-2012, 07:47 PM
Jollyroger2 Jollyroger2 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
If Strasburg had sustained an injury or had been suspended for the rest of the season, fans would be mourning his loss, and the media would be discussing how much this would hurt the team. Strangely enough, the two Bay Area teams that lost important components to contending teams are actually better teams, or at least more successfu teams, without the players the league suspended.

What bothers me is the idea that great pitchers are better off not pitching. It isn't that Strasburg is unhealthy. There is the idea that he could be if he continues to pitch, although his original injury had nothing to do with overwork and there is no concern about overwork affecting others who have to pick up more of the load. Fortunately for the Giants, Buster Posey, coming off of his serios injury, only has to worry about catching and the occasional day off at first base.

Actually, I would like to see the Tigers shut down Justin Verlander. He has pitched so much over the past two years, and every time he goes out there, his chances of injury increase (just ask Brandon McCarthy). But, really, this entire concept of Strasburg being too special a pitcher to pitch has me really hating the Nationals.

It would be tragically comedic, more tragic in a dramatic sense, where choices made by (or for) the tragic figure lead to his demise, if Strasburg came back next year and developed arm trouble in May, or even if Gonzalez came up with an injury. The Nationals are acting as if winning this year doesn't matter. Some would label them a garbage team, though, considering how long it's been since they have been to the postseason.

The Nationals used to be a feel good story.
I haven't heard a single person or media rep label the Nats a garbage team...not sure where that's coming from. The franchise was owned by MLB and run into the gutter in Montreal, with the worst ranked farm system in baseball. They get moved to DC, play in a decrepit dump for a few years and in the meantime, totally blow the team up and rebuild the farm system while acknowledging to the fan base there would be some lean years, and there were with back to back 100-L seasons.

Now they are loaded with some excellent young players, the farm system is in great shape again, they have money to spend and the area around the ballpark is a revitalized section of DC that was an armpit before. The front office has made some good moves and they play hard, scrappy baseball. The games are fun to go to, and they win alot. And most likely, they will be competitive for a while.

As for others having to pick up the workload, again, the Nats are very deep with their pitching, so much so they had to send a quality guy like Lannan who was a good starter last season down to AAA. Barring other injuries, they'll be fine. Especially with just 2-3 weeks of reg. season left. I don't think the Nats don't care about winning this year, again, not sure where that is coming from. They have just said from day one this was going to be their plan with SS, no matter what record the team had at the time.

Nobody knows what will happen with SS, any player can get hurt anytime, they're just being extra cautious with a potential superstar pitcher. But tonight he was out after just 3 innings and another beating. Maybe his health isn't 100%...or he's just getting tired.

As a Sox fan, even without SS I would love to have the rotation they have going into the postseason. Would be a hell of a lot better than this clusterflop the Sox have now.
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  #50  
Old 09-08-2012, 10:50 AM
kevingrt kevingrt is offline
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It's official Strasburg is done: http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/m...down-strasburg

I'd be so pissed as a Gnats fan.
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  #51  
Old 09-08-2012, 11:29 AM
soltrain21 soltrain21 is offline
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I'm confused about Davy Johnson saying it's mental.
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  #52  
Old 09-08-2012, 12:12 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by soltrain21 View Post
I'm confused about Davy Johnson saying it's mental.
He said all the hype around it was starting to weigh on Strasburg's mind; wasn't getting enough sleep, wasn't mentally into his starts...

For what its worth
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  #53  
Old 09-08-2012, 12:39 PM
kevingrt kevingrt is offline
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He said all the hype around it was starting to weigh on Strasburg's mind; wasn't getting enough sleep, wasn't mentally into his starts...

For what its worth
Hype around what? Him being done. Wouldn't that be the opposite of hype?
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  #54  
Old 09-08-2012, 01:04 PM
SephClone89 SephClone89 is offline
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Originally Posted by kevingrt View Post

Hype around what? Him being done. Wouldn't that be the opposite of hype?
It was the number one baseball story for a couple months. Hearing EVERYWHERE about how you and your fanbase are getting royally screwed by management. Think that counts as hype.
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  #55  
Old 09-08-2012, 01:14 PM
thomas35forever thomas35forever is offline
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Originally Posted by kevingrt View Post
It's official Strasburg is done: http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/m...down-strasburg

I'd be so pissed as a Gnats fan.
Unbelievable. I wonder how he feels about the fact that he won't be able to help them in the playoffs. When will they even get another chance.
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  #56  
Old 09-08-2012, 09:31 PM
Soxman219 Soxman219 is offline
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Embarrassing move by the Nats organization. He might not get another chance to play in the postseason. Strasburg can easily rupture his elbow again next year, why not just rest him until the playoffs? The goal of every organization is to win a championship; you need your best men on the job. The Nats are asking to get swept in the divisional series.
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  #57  
Old 09-08-2012, 10:11 PM
Jollyroger2 Jollyroger2 is offline
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Embarrassing move by the Nats organization. He might not get another chance to play in the postseason. Strasburg can easily rupture his elbow again next year, why not just rest him until the playoffs? The goal of every organization is to win a championship; you need your best men on the job. The Nats are asking to get swept in the divisional series.
The Nats have said since before spring training, no matter what the team's record was at the time, they were going to keep him to roughly 160 IP. Bottom line is they are taking the medical advice they were given and doing what they think best for their long term investment.

I've said many times the other four pitchers are pretty good. SS's ERA is only third best in his own rotation. The team has somehow managed to go 67-44 in the games where SS didn't start. I'm in the DC area so I see them alot, but it amazes me how little people know about the Nationals. The concept still seems to be that they are SS and a bunch of stiffs.

If they do lose in the playoffs, or crash and burn and not make the playoffs, then life goes in. They still have a very good young team coming back next season and they have plenty of $$ to spend if they choose to.
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  #58  
Old 09-08-2012, 10:25 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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He's apparently upset over the decision and you wonder how this is playing out in the clubhouse considering there are no guarantees some of these guys will ever get a playoff chance like this again:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/83...sion-shut-down

Lip
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  #59  
Old 09-09-2012, 12:15 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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I admit I was apparently wrong about what I said - it looks now like it was the Nats and Boras, and not Strasburg, who wanted this.

Hmm. I still get the decision, I guess.
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  #60  
Old 09-09-2012, 12:20 AM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by Jollyroger2 View Post
The Nats have said since before spring training, no matter what the team's record was at the time, they were going to keep him to roughly 160 IP. Bottom line is they are taking the medical advice they were given and doing what they think best for their long term investment.

I've said many times the other four pitchers are pretty good. SS's ERA is only third best in his own rotation. The team has somehow managed to go 67-44 in the games where SS didn't start. I'm in the DC area so I see them alot, but it amazes me how little people know about the Nationals. The concept still seems to be that they are SS and a bunch of stiffs.

If they do lose in the playoffs, or crash and burn and not make the playoffs, then life goes in. They still have a very good young team coming back next season and they have plenty of $$ to spend if they choose to.
You keep on saying this, and repeating this point, and I don't really see anyone disagreeing with it. If Strasburg was their only good starter, they would not have the best record in baseball. I haven't seen anyone in the thread say the Nationals are Strasburg "and a bunch of stiffs." Gio and Zimmermann have been good, and so have Jackson and Detwiler, but I don't know that I would want to trust the latter two (or John Lannan) to start a playoff game. They would be that much better off with Strasburg than without. And while I understand limiting the young starter to 160 IP, I do not understand the way they went about it. Putting an effective date on the calendar to completely stop the season of one of your best starters, otherwise healthy, seems to be saying that management was not planning on being competitive after that point. I don't really see how they're a better bet in the playoffs without Strasburg than with him. And I also don't understand how they could not have come up with some kind of plan to have him pitching in the postseason, whether that was delaying the start of his season, skipping starts or giving him an extra day of rest, shutting him down a starter or two early before playoffs, starting his season as a reliever; Chris Sale and Kris Medlen will be making playoff starts for their respective teams, assuming they make the postseason, and are also under similar close eyes due to their youth (and possibly their respective health situations, as well).

The point is not that the Nationals are currently a garbage team or nothing without Strasburg. It's that they currently have the best record in baseball and should be a good bet for the postseason, and they will be without one of their best starters, completely voluntarily as some sort of odd hope for the future that pitching a few starts in the postseason will be too harmful for his long-term health. They're that sure they'll return to the playoffs? That those few starts will be too harmful to his long-term health? You would have been fine if they were in a similar situation, the White Sox in September 2005 benched Mark Buehrle (just as a hypothetical)? Or if the Sox shut down Chris Sale this fall, even if they had topped Detroit in the AL Central? I can't think of any precedent for this, nor can I think of any real good reason for it.
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