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  #31  
Old 08-13-2012, 08:51 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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A long time ago the rivalry was competitive but for the most part if not friendly, at least civil. It also used to be true that lots of people considered themselves "Chicago" fans and would pull for both teams while having one they considered a favorite. It also may shock some but I remember massive defections in the late 60s in response to the suddenly lowly Sox almost leaving town, and the 5 future HOFers on the Leo Durocher Cubs. To me the real turning point was 1984 when the surprising Cubs won the NL East, (before tanking against the Padres of course) and you could see that whole Wrigleyville thing in its infancy. It was obvious that there was no longer any semblance of objectivity in the media. The radio show The Sportswriters, on WGN voiced open contempt for the Sox often. So gradually over time the sands of fortune have shifted in favor of the Cubs for a variety of business and demographic reasons. Wilson, Swift, Armour and the Stockyards are gone. The International Amphitheatre is but a fading memory. So are the steel mills and factories. Every now and then a poster here will wax nostalgic for the old Chicago Cardinals. They're all gone but the Sox remain firmly entrenched on a depleted south side. For me it's now about survival. These are intense partisan times and the Cubs although stinking on the field have won the PR war. They can just go **** themselves for all I care. Y'all can bash DrCrawdad but I'm going to hang wiffem on this one. The Cubs and their sycophants can stuff it.
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  #32  
Old 08-13-2012, 09:26 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
A long time ago the rivalry was competitive but for the most part if not friendly, at least civil. It also used to be true that lots of people considered themselves "Chicago" fans and would pull for both teams while having one they considered a favorite. It also may shock some but I remember massive defections in the late 60s in response to the suddenly lowly Sox almost leaving town, and the 5 future HOFers on the Leo Durocher Cubs. To me the real turning point was 1984 when the surprising Cubs won the NL East, (before tanking against the Padres of course) and you could see that whole Wrigleyville thing in its infancy. It was obvious that there was no longer any semblance of objectivity in the media. The radio show The Sportswriters, on WGN voiced open contempt for the Sox often. So gradually over time the sands of fortune have shifted in favor of the Cubs for a variety of business and demographic reasons. Wilson, Swift, Armour and the Stockyards are gone. The International Amphitheatre is but a fading memory. So are the steel mills and factories. Every now and then a poster here will wax nostalgic for the old Chicago Cardinals. They're all gone but the Sox remain firmly entrenched on a depleted south side. For me it's now about survival. These are intense partisan times and the Cubs although stinking on the field have won the PR war. They can just go **** themselves for all I care. Y'all can bash DrCrawdad but I'm going to hang wiffem on this one. The Cubs and their sycophants can stuff it.
That first part is a good point. Both of my parents grew up in Rogers Park big baseball fans, and neither of them said they were a Cubs or Sox fan growing up. They loved to hope on the streetcar and the El to go to both parks in the summer. My dad absolutely loved baseball, whether that was going to Comiskey Park in the summer to watch Billy Pierce take on Whitey For; to Wrigley to watch Ernie Banks; taking me to the '93 ALCS and being surrounded by the Jays' wives; taking me to St. Louis in the 90s to watch Ray Lankford, Ron Gant and the Cardinals; or in going on numerous road trips and seeing baseball in Denver, Toronto, Detroit, San Francisco, and LA. Thus, I got instilled with a love of baseball, but not directed towards any one team. The White Sox love I developed on my own.
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  #33  
Old 08-13-2012, 09:48 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
That first part is a good point. Both of my parents grew up in Rogers Park big baseball fans, and neither of them said they were a Cubs or Sox fan growing up. They loved to hope on the streetcar and the El to go to both parks in the summer. My dad absolutely loved baseball, whether that was going to Comiskey Park in the summer to watch Billy Pierce take on Whitey For; to Wrigley to watch Ernie Banks; taking me to the '93 ALCS and being surrounded by the Jays' wives; taking me to St. Louis in the 90s to watch Ray Lankford, Ron Gant and the Cardinals; or in going on numerous road trips and seeing baseball in Denver, Toronto, Detroit, San Francisco, and LA. Thus, I got instilled with a love of baseball, but not directed towards any one team. The White Sox love I developed on my own.
Your dad must have been a really great guy. I believe your parents were born 5 or so years before me, but I can relate to all of that. It was much nicer back then, and a great experience for a kid to live in a city with two baseball teams. I was no stranger to Wrigley Field. Also, in case I came off as kind of an ******* or ogre, some of my most treasured baseball memorabilia was given to me by an old Cub fan who has gone to his reward. I loved hearing his stories about Hack Wilson and the really good Cub teams of the 20s and 30s. Things are nastier today and the advent of interleague play had made it more intense. In 2006 we were in Shea watching the Mets. In about the 7th inning above us in the upper deck some spirited Yankee and Mets fans were seriously brawling. The Mets were playing the Pirates that night. In any case my sympathies will always lie in favor of the Sox. To me they are truly the local underdog, and yes I hope they don't disappear like all the other south side institutions I mentioned previously.
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  #34  
Old 08-13-2012, 10:20 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
Your dad must have been a really great guy. I believe your parents were born 5 or so years before me, but I can relate to all of that. It was much nicer back then, and a great experience for a kid to live in a city with two baseball teams. I was no stranger to Wrigley Field. Also, in case I came off as kind of an ******* or ogre, some of my most treasured baseball memorabilia was given to me by an old Cub fan who has gone to his reward. I loved hearing his stories about Hack Wilson and the really good Cub teams of the 20s and 30s. Things are nastier today and the advent of interleague play had made it more intense. In 2006 we were in Shea watching the Mets. In about the 7th inning above us in the upper deck some spirited Yankee and Mets fans were seriously brawling. The Mets were playing the Pirates that night. In any case my sympathies will always lie in favor of the Sox. To me they are truly the local underdog, and yes I hope they don't disappear like all the other south side institutions I mentioned previously.
I do think things were much worse towards the beginning of interleague play than they are know. Whether that's because the novelty has worn off or because of 2005, I don't know. It does seem to me though that things were nastier in Chicago amongst interleague rivals than anywhere else. I don't get the sense that Yankees-Mets is that big a rivalry.
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  #35  
Old 08-13-2012, 11:11 PM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
A long time ago the rivalry was competitive but for the most part if not friendly, at least civil. It also used to be true that lots of people considered themselves "Chicago" fans and would pull for both teams while having one they considered a favorite. It also may shock some but I remember massive defections in the late 60s in response to the suddenly lowly Sox almost leaving town, and the 5 future HOFers on the Leo Durocher Cubs. To me the real turning point was 1984 when the surprising Cubs won the NL East, (before tanking against the Padres of course) and you could see that whole Wrigleyville thing in its infancy. It was obvious that there was no longer any semblance of objectivity in the media. The radio show The Sportswriters, on WGN voiced open contempt for the Sox often. So gradually over time the sands of fortune have shifted in favor of the Cubs for a variety of business and demographic reasons. Wilson, Swift, Armour and the Stockyards are gone. The International Amphitheatre is but a fading memory. So are the steel mills and factories. Every now and then a poster here will wax nostalgic for the old Chicago Cardinals. They're all gone but the Sox remain firmly entrenched on a depleted south side. For me it's now about survival. These are intense partisan times and the Cubs although stinking on the field have won the PR war. They can just go **** themselves for all I care. Y'all can bash DrCrawdad but I'm going to hang wiffem on this one. The Cubs and their sycophants can stuff it.
It's amazing to me, here at White Sox Interactive post critical or (god forbid) negative comments about the Cubs at your peril. You will get your head chopped off by the odd Cubbie Defenders and those who dislike "flubsession."

I can partly understand those obsessed with "flubsession," those who don't think there should be Cubs discussion on Sox site. I can see where they are coming from. However, The Cubbie Defenders are the odd lot to me. What a shock that Sox fans would bash the Cubbies on a Sox discussion site?

Try looking sometime at a Cubs discussion site. See if there are Cubs fans who patrol the site waiting to pounce on anti-Sox comments. You can bet if in the rare chance that might happen how quickly you'd be called a Sox fan. So get over the hypersensitivity for being called a Cubbie fan when you defend the Cubs, on a White Sox fan discussion site!

This is an unabashed White Sox fan site, bashing our neighbors to the north is not some phenomenon. They routinely bash us and then deny they do it. We do it and don't deny it. That's one of the many reasons I love my fellow Sox fans.

I posted an honest comment about the Cubs. Folks can disagree with the point, as some here have done, but notice how fast and furious the attacks were about me and quickly pushed my comment to the side so they could launch into their usual personal attacks.

For the record, I do not hate all things Cubs. I honestly admire several current and past Cubs players. I enjoy going to see a game every now and then at Wrigley. I didn't grow up hating the Cubs. They were foreign to me. They meant about as much to me as did the Cincinnati Reds. That said, some of my best friends are Cubs fans...

For my part, I truly want to follow my own words, "Balanced, reasonable discussion is helped without ad hominem attacks. Discuss the point, not the person."

And finally, thanks SI1020 for the kind, supportive comments!
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  #36  
Old 08-14-2012, 05:28 AM
Bob Roarman Bob Roarman is offline
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Holy cheez-its. If we're so much better than Cubs fans, why the hell do we feel the need to stoop to such stupid insults like "Hurrr durr remember 1908 hahaha..." It has nothing to do with going out of the way to defend the Cubs or not liking the Sox, it's simply looking at things objectively. That's all it is.

Survival? This "battle" doesn't even really exist anymore, now more than ever it's just another series. The Chicago Cardinals, the stockyards, the International Amphitheatre, steel mills and factories disappearing has nothing, nothing to do with it. Nothing to do with it at all. This is ridiculous.
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  #37  
Old 08-14-2012, 10:19 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by DrCrawdad View Post
For the record, I do not hate all things Cubs. I honestly admire several current and past Cubs players. I enjoy going to see a game every now and then at Wrigley. I didn't grow up hating the Cubs. They were foreign to me. They meant about as much to me as did the Cincinnati Reds.
Really, that's all you had to say. Your posts consistently convey something else - a Hangar18-esque level of Cub hatred.

There are no "Cubbie Defenders." You have given yourself a false group to align against. There are merely Sox fans who are embarrassed by the perception that Sox fans are wrapped up in their hate for the Cubs. To that point, I do not care what Cubs fans do on their site - let them look like fools. We shouldn't.

I am not saying ignore them. I am not saying don't have them and the free pass they get from the media and their "fun-loving" non-Chicago fanbase. I'm saying don't make it look like every single thing the Cubs do needs to be torn apart and ridiculed. I just think it makes us as Sox fans look bad.
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  #38  
Old 08-14-2012, 10:35 AM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by DrCrawdad View Post
It's amazing to me, here at White Sox Interactive post critical or (god forbid) negative comments about the Cubs at your peril. You will get your head chopped off by the odd Cubbie Defenders and those who dislike "flubsession."

I can partly understand those obsessed with "flubsession," those who don't think there should be Cubs discussion on Sox site. I can see where they are coming from. However, The Cubbie Defenders are the odd lot to me. What a shock that Sox fans would bash the Cubbies on a Sox discussion site?

Try looking sometime at a Cubs discussion site. See if there are Cubs fans who patrol the site waiting to pounce on anti-Sox comments. You can bet if in the rare chance that might happen how quickly you'd be called a Sox fan. So get over the hypersensitivity for being called a Cubbie fan when you defend the Cubs, on a White Sox fan discussion site!

This is an unabashed White Sox fan site, bashing our neighbors to the north is not some phenomenon. They routinely bash us and then deny they do it. We do it and don't deny it. That's one of the many reasons I love my fellow Sox fans.

I posted an honest comment about the Cubs. Folks can disagree with the point, as some here have done, but notice how fast and furious the attacks were about me and quickly pushed my comment to the side so they could launch into their usual personal attacks.

For the record, I do not hate all things Cubs. I honestly admire several current and past Cubs players. I enjoy going to see a game every now and then at Wrigley. I didn't grow up hating the Cubs. They were foreign to me. They meant about as much to me as did the Cincinnati Reds. That said, some of my best friends are Cubs fans...

For my part, I truly want to follow my own words, "Balanced, reasonable discussion is helped without ad hominem attacks. Discuss the point, not the person."

And finally, thanks SI1020 for the kind, supportive comments!
I have only read a handful of posts since I have been here and I can tell you can't look at things objectively with the Cubs.

I love to bust balls with Cubs fans I know, but I got over my hatred for them a long time ago. I can make fun of them, but still talk about them objectively.

This season has been successful for the Cubs in the long term plan. Do you agree with that?
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  #39  
Old 08-14-2012, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by CoopaLoop View Post
This season has been successful for the Cubs in the long term plan. Do you agree with that?
I think that is still yet to be seen
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  #40  
Old 08-14-2012, 10:55 AM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23

I think that is still yet to be seen
I agree.
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  #41  
Old 08-14-2012, 11:09 AM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42

Really, that's all you had to say. Your posts consistently convey something else - a Hangar18-esque level of Cub hatred.

There are no "Cubbie Defenders." You have given yourself a false group to align against. There are merely Sox fans who are embarrassed by the perception that Sox fans are wrapped up in their hate for the Cubs. To that point, I do not care what Cubs fans do on their site - let them look like fools. We shouldn't.

I am not saying ignore them. I am not saying don't have them and the free pass they get from the media and their "fun-loving" non-Chicago fanbase. I'm saying don't make it look like every single thing the Cubs do needs to be torn apart and ridiculed. I just think it makes us as Sox fans look bad.
Just my opinion but I think this site and discussion in general would be better served by stopping the regular attacks on those who don't do or say as you wish. Maybe if posters dont conform to your concept consider letting it go.

Discuss points and not the person. I know thats what I'm going to endeavor to do from this point forward.
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  #42  
Old 08-14-2012, 11:28 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by DrCrawdad View Post
Just my opinion but I think this site and discussion in general would be better served by stopping the regular attacks on those who don't do or say as you wish. Maybe if posters dont conform to your concept consider letting it go.

Discuss points and not the person. I know thats what I'm going to endeavor to do from this point forward.
I stated that I feel the "Cubsession" is embarrassing to Sox fans. I stated how I think it looks when posters post those types of comments. That is no more a personal attack than saying a group of posters are "Cubbie Defenders." By the way, I addressed that point and responded to it, as well.

Thank you for not addressing any point I made.
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  #43  
Old 08-16-2012, 09:14 AM
Cangelosi CF Cangelosi CF is offline
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Vitters hitting .108. Jackson hitting .188 with 18 Ks in 32 ABs.
Gotta wonder how much this is stunting their growth.

meanwhile, as much as I dislike Phil "Cubs Apologist" Rogers, his article today in the Cubune is spot on: Why the eff does Crane Kenney still have a job? Extending the farm director's contract (who just got sacked) while trying to find a GM=BOGGLE.

I went to a Cubs game last week, the 2 hour rain delay. $6.50 for a bison dog on a stale bun.
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  #44  
Old 08-16-2012, 09:26 AM
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I went to a Cubs game last week, the 2 hour rain delay. $6.50 for a bison dog on a stale bun.
Cubs Baseball - Major League prices for minor league talent
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  #45  
Old 08-16-2012, 10:33 AM
SOXPHILE SOXPHILE is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
A long time ago the rivalry was competitive but for the most part if not friendly, at least civil. It also used to be true that lots of people considered themselves "Chicago" fans and would pull for both teams while having one they considered a favorite. It also may shock some but I remember massive defections in the late 60s in response to the suddenly lowly Sox almost leaving town, and the 5 future HOFers on the Leo Durocher Cubs. To me the real turning point was 1984 when the surprising Cubs won the NL East, (before tanking against the Padres of course) and you could see that whole Wrigleyville thing in its infancy. It was obvious that there was no longer any semblance of objectivity in the media. The radio show The Sportswriters, on WGN voiced open contempt for the Sox often. So gradually over time the sands of fortune have shifted in favor of the Cubs for a variety of business and demographic reasons. Wilson, Swift, Armour and the Stockyards are gone. The International Amphitheatre is but a fading memory. So are the steel mills and factories. Every now and then a poster here will wax nostalgic for the old Chicago Cardinals. They're all gone but the Sox remain firmly entrenched on a depleted south side. For me it's now about survival. These are intense partisan times and the Cubs although stinking on the field have won the PR war. They can just go **** themselves for all I care. Y'all can bash DrCrawdad but I'm going to hang wiffem on this one. The Cubs and their sycophants can stuff it.

That part about 1984 hits the nail right on the head. I used to not hate the Cubs. I was always a die hard Sox fan, but I hoped the Cubs would do well too (unless they played the Cardinals). I'd usually watch them lose in the afternoon, be a bit disappointed, but really look more forward to watching the Sox that night.

In 1983, the Sox were Winnin' Ugly, and this town was on fire with all the excitement it seemed. I don't really recall seeing a whole hell of a lot of Cubs fans walking around with their hats on or mouthing off. The Sox were the story, and rightly so. The Cubs were just kind of there, playing in front of 8-10K people at Wrigley, and that was it.

In 1984, it was like someone flipped a switch. The Sox were doing bad, and the Cubs were the big surprise. Obviously, like the previous year, the winning team gets more press and attention. But it was more than that. Suddenly, everyone seemed to come out of the woodwork in ways that didn't happen in 1983. There were people who couldn't tell the difference between a baseball and their own ass, who were suddenly HUGE Cubs fans, walking around with Cubs painters caps and t-shirts. Wrigley Field was suddenly Mardi Gras North. Instead of the usual small crowds who actually were fans, the park and surrounding neighborhood were overrun with people who were the very essence of what we still make fun of today. Thousands and thousands of "fans" who always loved the Cubs, but most of the time were just drunken idiots there to party, because the park and neighborhood became the new "in" place to be. It is still the same today, 25+ years later. Then, right then and there, when I started getting grief and hearing some pretty vile insults from these new fans about being a Sox fan, is when I started hating anything to do with the Cubs.

Last edited by SOXPHILE; 08-16-2012 at 10:43 AM.
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