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  #16  
Old 01-08-2012, 05:57 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
The teams that are in every year as you say are because they spend and spend big on the ML roster.


The Twins being the exception but what has that gotten for them?

The Rays too small a sample size.
With the exception of the Yankees (and maybe even including the Yankees) those teams spend a LOT on the draft too. The Rays have made it three of the last four years and have done it almost exclusively through the draft. The Rangers have a lot of homegrown talent, the Cardinals as well. Even the Red Sox have a lot of homegrown guys. The only team that seems to build exclusively through free agency is the Yankees.
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  #17  
Old 01-09-2012, 08:49 AM
palehosepub palehosepub is offline
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1-10 out there this morning #1 & 2 are the Padres and the Blue Jays Kenny's recent trading partners...... At least he is dealing the deepest systems
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  #18  
Old 01-09-2012, 09:13 AM
Fenway Fenway is offline
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Originally Posted by palehosepub View Post
1-10 out there this morning #1 & 2 are the Padres and the Blue Jays Kenny's recent trading partners...... At least he is dealing the deepest systems
http://www.nesn.com/2012/01/yankees-...alls-best.html
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  #19  
Old 01-09-2012, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
Even the Red Sox have a lot of homegrown guys.
The Yankees start just as much homegrown guys as the Red Sox do.
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  #20  
Old 01-09-2012, 12:57 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
It's not just the lack of presence and spending on international talent. Jerry doesn't let Kenny spend on the draft. The Sox routinely stick to slot recommendations and thus end up completely avoiding a huge portion of talent in the draft. Go look at total draft, and bonus expenditure spending. The Sox have been in the bottom routinely for some years now. Couple all this with a dearth of effective scouts, an inability to churn out major leaguers from what talent they do end up drafting, and Kenny's propensity to trade prospects to "win now!" and you have the current situation the Sox are in. The CBA changes to the draft with effectively instituting hard slotting without calling it hard slotting should rectify some of these issues.
Who was the last player to come up through the Sox system to become a decent MLB starting player for the Sox? Nevermind any all-stars, how about even just a passable MLB starting player?

I'm having a hard time thinking of anyone in the last 10 years. This last 10 years has brought us the likes of Brian Anderson and Josh Fields. Beckham was supposed to be our one homegrown success thanks to our #8 overall pick in 2008, but he's looking more and more like another bust.

Chris Sale looks promising. We'll see what Brent Morel does after his rookie season. Also, it sounds like Addison Reed might be someone to look forward to.

KW has had success in picking up talent from other farms systems via trades (Danks, Floyd, Quentin) but we're several years removed from those successes. That's probably the closest we've come in the last 10 years to developing our own talent.

Aside from the new CBA helping the Sox, is there anything that we can hope current Sox ownership will do improve this organization's lack of talent? I seem to recall that they supposedly had a "shakeup" around 2008 (when they brought in Buddy Bell). It's 3 or 4 years later and things still look pretty bad.

It's not very likely to build a consistently winning organization without having a good farm system as part of the mix.
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  #21  
Old 01-09-2012, 02:35 PM
palehosepub palehosepub is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
Who was the last player to come up through the Sox system to become a decent MLB starting player for the Sox? Nevermind any all-stars, how about even just a passable MLB starting player?

I'm having a hard time thinking of anyone in the last 10 years. This last 10 years has brought us the likes of Brian Anderson and Josh Fields. Beckham was supposed to be our one homegrown success thanks to our #8 overall pick in 2008, but he's looking more and more like another bust.

Chris Sale looks promising. We'll see what Brent Morel does after his rookie season. Also, it sounds like Addison Reed might be someone to look forward to.

KW has had success in picking up talent from other farms systems via trades (Danks, Floyd, Quentin) but we're several years removed from those successes. That's probably the closest we've come in the last 10 years to developing our own talent.

Aside from the new CBA helping the Sox, is there anything that we can hope current Sox ownership will do improve this organization's lack of talent? I seem to recall that they supposedly had a "shakeup" around 2008 (when they brought in Buddy Bell). It's 3 or 4 years later and things still look pretty bad.

It's not very likely to build a consistently winning organization without having a good farm system as part of the mix.
Probably Aaron Rowand
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  #22  
Old 01-09-2012, 03:32 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
The Yankees start just as much homegrown guys as the Red Sox do.
By my count the Red Sox have three regular position players who were drafted by them and four pitchers, the Yankees have seven also. I suppose the difference is that the Yankees have only four players who make significant contributions that came up in their system in the past ten years while all seven of the Red Sox came up in the past ten years.

My point was that successful teams have a lot of homegrown talent mixed in with free agents. Even those Yankee dynasties of the 1990s and early 2000s had a lot of homegrown talent.
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  #23  
Old 01-09-2012, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by palehosepub View Post
Probably Aaron Rowand

Matt Guerrier is still bouncing around the majors somewhere.
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  #24  
Old 01-09-2012, 03:51 PM
eriqjaffe eriqjaffe is offline
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Originally Posted by Daver View Post
Matt Guerrier is still bouncing around the majors somewhere.
I think the caveat was "with the Sox." Kenny's traded away a number of minor leaguers who have turned out to be fairly serviceable players in the majors.

Heck, he traded Gio Gonzalez twice.
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  #25  
Old 01-09-2012, 09:39 PM
Viva Medias B's Viva Medias B's is offline
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Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
http://www.nesn.com/2012/01/orioles-...m-systems.html

Please don't shoot the messenger - just passing it out for debate.
The No. 1 reason KW should be fired.
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  #26  
Old 01-09-2012, 10:08 PM
SoxSpeed22 SoxSpeed22 is offline
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Chicken or the egg. Yes, KW has overpaid for average or above average players, Gio and Hudson (I'm sure I'm missing some more) would be nice for our team right now. Then again, when you give him jack**** to work with (lack of scouts, both domestic and international, low budget to spend on draft picks), what's he supposed to do?
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  #27  
Old 01-10-2012, 02:19 PM
palehozenychicty palehozenychicty is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
Who was the last player to come up through the Sox system to become a decent MLB starting player for the Sox? Nevermind any all-stars, how about even just a passable MLB starting player?

I'm having a hard time thinking of anyone in the last 10 years. This last 10 years has brought us the likes of Brian Anderson and Josh Fields. Beckham was supposed to be our one homegrown success thanks to our #8 overall pick in 2008, but he's looking more and more like another bust.

Chris Sale looks promising. We'll see what Brent Morel does after his rookie season. Also, it sounds like Addison Reed might be someone to look forward to.

KW has had success in picking up talent from other farms systems via trades (Danks, Floyd, Quentin) but we're several years removed from those successes. That's probably the closest we've come in the last 10 years to developing our own talent.

Aside from the new CBA helping the Sox, is there anything that we can hope current Sox ownership will do improve this organization's lack of talent? I seem to recall that they supposedly had a "shakeup" around 2008 (when they brought in Buddy Bell). It's 3 or 4 years later and things still look pretty bad.

It's not very likely to build a consistently winning organization without having a good farm system as part of the mix.
All this is my larger overall point.
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  #28  
Old 01-10-2012, 02:24 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by SoxSpeed22 View Post
Chicken or the egg. Yes, KW has overpaid for average or above average players, Gio and Hudson (I'm sure I'm missing some more) would be nice for our team right now. Then again, when you give him jack**** to work with (lack of scouts, both domestic and international, low budget to spend on draft picks), what's he supposed to do?
You can blame Jerry for the lack of money spent on the draft but Kenny is the guy who is supposed to assemble good domestic and international scouts.
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  #29  
Old 01-10-2012, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
You can blame Jerry for the lack of money spent on the draft but Kenny is the guy who is supposed to assemble good domestic and international scouts.
No, the minor league director does that, when KW held that position the farm system was rather highly rated.
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  #30  
Old 01-11-2012, 08:08 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palehosepub View Post
Probably Aaron Rowand
He was drafted in 1998 and came up with the Sox in 2001. That's a really long time since the Sox developed their own quality MLB player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriqjaffe View Post
I think the caveat was "with the Sox." Kenny's traded away a number of minor leaguers who have turned out to be fairly serviceable players in the majors.

Heck, he traded Gio Gonzalez twice.
I'd like to have Gio and Daniel Hudson back. But even the list of prospects we traded away that have turned into everyday MLB players is rather thin. Here are the ones that I can think of.
- Gio Gonzalez
- Daniel Hudson
- Chris Young
- Matt Guerrier

This means that KW usually doesn't have as many pieces to deal to get quality players either.
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