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  #196  
Old 07-03-2011, 12:28 PM
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spawn spawn is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
The trade sucked and still sucks. Stop rationalizing it.
He's entitled to his opinion. Even if though he says he wasn't rationalizing the trade, it's his prerogative to do so. If you want to provide a counter argument as you have done before, that's fine. But don't tell posters here what they should and shouldn't do.
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  #197  
Old 07-03-2011, 06:24 PM
NLaloosh NLaloosh is offline
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Originally Posted by cards press box View Post
You are wrong, I am not rationalizing the trade. I, too, wish the Sox had kept Hudson. But they didn't. KW probably concluded that Hudson's value had peaked and that he wouldn't be anything more than a mid to back of the rotation guy. That looks like a mistake now and, of course, the mistake can't be undone. Perhaps the Sox can mitigate their loss if they move Jackson at the 2011 trade deadline.

I am primarily saying two things: (1) GM's who try to accomplish anything will make mistakes and (2) KW should be recognized as loudly for his hits as he is criticized for his misses. On this board, posters often forget the hits and never seem to forget the misses.
Okay, I am recognizing KW for his MISSES. Now, I will recognize him for his hit.
  #198  
Old 07-04-2011, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by NLaloosh View Post
Okay, I am recognizing KW for his MISSES. Now, I will recognize him for his hit.
Which hit would that be? Signing Estaban Loaiza off the waiver wire in 2003 or trading Loaiza for this pitcher in 2004:




or perhaps trading minor leaguer Chris Carter for this guy:



or perhaps trading the oft-injured Brandon McCarthy for this guy:



or perhaps signing this free agent starter in the past off season:



There are certainly a lot more examples of successful moves from KW but I am not going to belabor the point.
  #199  
Old 07-04-2011, 10:05 AM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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Dayan Viciedo is Sickels' prospect of the day. A pretty accurate assessment I'd say.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/...-Game-baseball
  #200  
Old 07-04-2011, 12:01 PM
cards press box cards press box is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
Dayan Viciedo is Sickels' prospect of the day. A pretty accurate assessment I'd say.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/...-Game-baseball
He seems a little young to DH at this point. Do the Sox ultimately put him in LF?
  #201  
Old 07-04-2011, 12:06 PM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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He seems a little young to DH at this point. Do the Sox ultimately put him in LF?
That or shift Quentin back to LF.

And age really doesn't have much to do with it. The consensus is he is not likely to be a good defender no matter where he is placed. He has a good arm, but the defensive positives end about there. An apt comparison for Dayan is Carlos Lee on both sides of the ball. Probably with more power potential though.
  #202  
Old 07-04-2011, 12:50 PM
JermaineDye05 JermaineDye05 is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
That or shift Quentin back to LF.

And age really doesn't have much to do with it. The consensus is he is not likely to be a good defender no matter where he is placed. He has a good arm, but the defensive positives end about there. An apt comparison for Dayan is Carlos Lee on both sides of the ball. Probably with more power potential though.
What about Ryan Braun or Alfonso Soriano?

Soriano probably more likely just cause I haven't seen Braun defend much, but I haven't heard anything really positive about him in LF.
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  #203  
Old 07-04-2011, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JermaineDye05 View Post
What about Ryan Braun or Alfonso Soriano?

Soriano probably more likely just cause I haven't seen Braun defend much, but I haven't heard anything really positive about him in LF.
What about them?
  #204  
Old 07-04-2011, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by JermaineDye05 View Post
What about Ryan Braun or Alfonso Soriano?

Soriano probably more likely just cause I haven't seen Braun defend much, but I haven't heard anything really positive about him in LF.
Both of those guys have/had speed?
  #205  
Old 07-04-2011, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by JermaineDye05 View Post
What about Ryan Braun or Alfonso Soriano?

Soriano probably more likely just cause I haven't seen Braun defend much, but I haven't heard anything really positive about him in LF.
I like Dayan. Most of the board does too. He can hit, and hit well. He has plenty of power, ridiculous bat speed, and makes solid contact without striking out much for a slugger.

The reviews of his defense are not good though. The range isn't there, just as it was absent at 3B and 1B. I can't comment on the reads he gets as I haven't seen him play much other than a miniscule spring training sample size. But when people who are paid to scout, analyze, and write about prospects are noting his defense at best could be "mediocre" or "tolerable" its fair to temper expectations about his play in the field.
  #206  
Old 07-04-2011, 01:27 PM
JermaineDye05 JermaineDye05 is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
What about them?
Would they be accurate comparisons to Dayan seeing as they are not particularly good fielders but are above average hitters.

I think Soriano mostly since he's **** in the OF and he's also a high strikeout guy at the plate.
  #207  
Old 07-04-2011, 01:35 PM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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Originally Posted by JermaineDye05 View Post
Would they be accurate comparisons to Dayan seeing as they are not particularly good fielders but are above average hitters.

I think Soriano mostly since he's **** in the OF and he's also a high strikeout guy at the plate.
Soriano used to play SS and 2B. He actually possesses the tools and skills to go get balls. He's considerably more athletic than someone like Dayan. Alfonso actually isn't all that bad of an OF according to most metrics. He can get to the ball better than most, but he does plenty of stupid **** when he actually gets to it.
  #208  
Old 07-04-2011, 03:06 PM
PalehosePlanet PalehosePlanet is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
That or shift Quentin back to LF.

And age really doesn't have much to do with it. The consensus is he is not likely to be a good defender no matter where he is placed. He has a good arm, but the defensive positives end about there. An apt comparison for Dayan is Carlos Lee on both sides of the ball. Probably with more power potential though.
Good comparison: Carlos Lee also started off as a 3B in our minor league system but had to move to LF because of his bad foot work at the hot corner.

Contrary, however, to most on this board, I thought Carlos improved in LF as time went by and became a tolerable fielder out there. (Remember I'm old enough to have seen Ron Kittle and Greg Luzinski out there, who were Chili Davis bad in the OF.)

The biggest problem I had w/Carlos (and Magglio as well) was that they constantly threw the ball over the cut-off man and to the plate when they had no chance of throwing the runner out at the plate. This was absolutely maddening because it would allow the batter to take second on the throw, more often than not. If Dayan plays at Lee's level, but actually throws to the cut-off man, I could live with him in left -- if he doesn't take to RF.

His bat speed, btw, is the best I've seen from a Sox player since Dick Allen, and that's no joke. The sound his bat makes with the ball at contact is something I've never heard before. If he fails, he fails, but at this point I'd love to see him play everyday and see what happens.
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  #209  
Old 07-04-2011, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
That or shift Quentin back to LF.

And age really doesn't have much to do with it. The consensus is he is not likely to be a good defender no matter where he is placed. He has a good arm, but the defensive positives end about there. An apt comparison for Dayan is Carlos Lee on both sides of the ball. Probably with more power potential though.

Carlos was more athletic than Dayan is, he just looks awkward playing defense.
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  #210  
Old 07-04-2011, 07:15 PM
eastchicagosoxfan eastchicagosoxfan is offline
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Carlos was more athletic than Dayan is, he just looks awkward playing defense.
Time will tell, but is the old Jon Kruk quote, "I'm not an athlete, I'm a ballplayer" fit a guy like Viciedo?

Daver, what you basing your opinion on? Scouting reports, personal observations...etc?
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