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  #46  
Old 09-08-2010, 09:20 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
So find an example. Dayan has drawn no walks in his first 82 major league at-bats. Find a player who started off with that kind of atrocious plate discipline who improved to league average.
Found one. 0 walks in first 88 plate appearances as a 20-year old rookie, eventually peaked at 116 walks in a season where he finished second in the MVP voting.

Viciedo won't match his power numbers, but as far as I know, steroids don't improve plate discipline.
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  #47  
Old 09-10-2010, 07:52 PM
Taliesinrk Taliesinrk is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Found one. 0 walks in first 88 plate appearances as a 20-year old rookie, eventually peaked at 116 walks in a season where he finished second in the MVP voting.

Viciedo won't match his power numbers, but as far as I know, steroids don't improve plate discipline.
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  #48  
Old 09-10-2010, 11:00 PM
MtGrnwdSoxFan MtGrnwdSoxFan is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Found one. 0 walks in first 88 plate appearances as a 20-year old rookie, eventually peaked at 116 walks in a season where he finished second in the MVP voting.

Viciedo won't match his power numbers, but as far as I know, steroids don't improve plate discipline.
I'd wager that a good number of those were intentional.

EDIT: 37 IBB, so 32% of his walks were intentional that year.
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  #49  
Old 09-11-2010, 11:44 PM
Sam Spade Sam Spade is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Found one. 0 walks in first 88 plate appearances as a 20-year old rookie, eventually peaked at 116 walks in a season where he finished second in the MVP voting.

Viciedo won't match his power numbers, but as far as I know, steroids don't improve plate discipline.
Good find.
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  #50  
Old 09-12-2010, 07:31 PM
stevemcstud stevemcstud is offline
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I have a feeling Viciedo is gone by the start of next season.

Of course what do I know about anything, but here is my prediction:

We keep Konerko on a 2-3 Year deal.

Brent Morel is starting 3B next year on Opening Day.

Teahen traded like Swisher to the Yankees trade version 2.

Flowers is Opening Day Catcher.

Quentin new DH/4th OF

Viciedo package for either new RF or new pitching, depends on if it takes pitching or fielding the new OF.

Santos is new Closer.

Jenks non tendered.
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  #51  
Old 09-12-2010, 08:53 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Viciedo package for either new RF or new pitching, depends on if it takes pitching or fielding the new OF.
Viciedo wont get the Sox a starting player unless a team is doing a salary dump.
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  #52  
Old 09-13-2010, 09:35 PM
NLaloosh NLaloosh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemcstud View Post
I have a feeling Viciedo is gone by the start of next season.

Of course what do I know about anything, but here is my prediction:

We keep Konerko on a 2-3 Year deal.

Brent Morel is starting 3B next year on Opening Day.

Teahen traded like Swisher to the Yankees trade version 2.

Flowers is Opening Day Catcher.

Quentin new DH/4th OF

Viciedo package for either new RF or new pitching, depends on if it takes pitching or fielding the new OF.

Santos is new Closer.

Jenks non tendered.

Viciedo = Jose Guillen - not necessarily a bad thing.

I agree with most of this - Konerko is back, Morel starTing at 3B, Jenks gone, Quentin DH/4th OF.

But, no way is Santos the closer. Putz, Sale and Thornton before him. No way is Flowers the starting catcher. Flowers MIGHT be the backup. And, no one will take Teahen's contract. The Sox are stuck with him like Linebrink.
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  #53  
Old 09-14-2010, 10:59 AM
palehosepub palehosepub is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemcstud View Post
I have a feeling Viciedo is gone by the start of next season.

Of course what do I know about anything, but here is my prediction:

We keep Konerko on a 2-3 Year deal.

Brent Morel is starting 3B next year on Opening Day.

Teahen traded like Swisher to the Yankees trade version 2.

Flowers is Opening Day Catcher.

Quentin new DH/4th OF

Viciedo package for either new RF or new pitching, depends on if it takes pitching or fielding the new OF.

Santos is new Closer.

Jenks non tendered.
I agree with all of the above but I think the Sox want AJ back and dont feel very confident with Flowers
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  #54  
Old 09-14-2010, 11:49 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is online now
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Originally Posted by NLaloosh View Post
But, no way is Santos the closer. Putz, Sale and Thornton before him. No way is Flowers the starting catcher. Flowers MIGHT be the backup. And, no one will take Teahen's contract. The Sox are stuck with him like Linebrink.
Putz is an FA after this year, I'm not 100% sure he's back. Thornton's still one of the few effective lefties in the bullpen, I don't know if the Sox make him closer right away. Sale was guaranteed by the Sox that this bullpen stint would only be temporary, but starting next season he would be molded as a starter, so he's likely going to spend summer 2011 in Birmingham working on getting stretched out.
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  #55  
Old 09-14-2010, 07:20 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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I agree with all of the above but I think the Sox want AJ back and dont feel very confident with Flowers
I hope not, at this stage of his career, AJ is nothing more than below average both offensively and behind the plate. Not in love with Flowers, I would like someone who can throw out a runner. AJ was nice in 2005, but he is nothing more than a backup or platoon C at this stage of his career.
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  #56  
Old 09-14-2010, 07:27 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
I hope not, at this stage of his career, AJ is nothing more than below average both offensively and behind the plate. Not in love with Flowers, I would like someone who can throw out a runner. AJ was nice in 2005, but he is nothing more than a backup or platoon C at this stage of his career.
I'll take an aging AJ over Flowers who has done little IMO to show he is big league worthy. Again, the Sox have little to look forward to down on the farm.
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  #57  
Old 09-14-2010, 07:46 PM
Rdy2PlayBall Rdy2PlayBall is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
I hope not, at this stage of his career, AJ is nothing more than below average both offensively and behind the plate. Not in love with Flowers, I would like someone who can throw out a runner. AJ was nice in 2005, but he is nothing more than a backup or platoon C at this stage of his career.
So one bad year, and he's done? He batted .300 last year and has been batting .382 the past 28 days, bringing his average up to a respectable .268. He's not 40, he's 33. I would bet more on this being a bad year than it being the start of his demise as an effective starter. Bring him back, I want nothing to do with Flowers until he gets more time in the minors.
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  #58  
Old 09-15-2010, 11:16 PM
Pablo_Honey Pablo_Honey is offline
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So one bad year, and he's done? He batted .300 last year and has been batting .382 the past 28 days, bringing his average up to a respectable .268. He's not 40, he's 33. I would bet more on this being a bad year than it being the start of his demise as an effective starter. Bring him back, I want nothing to do with Flowers until he gets more time in the minors.
While I do agree that this season is just one of those bad seasons most players go through, you've got to wonder if catching so many games every year is starting to take a toll on AJ's body. He's only 33 but catchers have a way shorter lifespan than other positional players. I wouldn't mind seeing him go but given his recent resurgence, I wouldn't be too upset if we brought him back.

This makes me realize how frustrating Flowers' struggles this season is. I had high hopes for him going into the season. Now it looks like he can neither hit or catch (Well, not like he could catch before but at least he was improving).
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  #59  
Old 09-16-2010, 11:03 AM
khan khan is offline
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I'll play along:

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Originally Posted by stevemcstud View Post
I have a feeling Viciedo is gone by the start of next season.
Eh, he's what, 21 or 22? I know KW's been giving away assets lately, but this would be selling WAY low. The only way Viciedo is gone is if he's waived because he has no trade value as I type this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemcstud View Post
Of course what do I know about anything, but here is my prediction:
We keep Konerko on a 2-3 Year deal.
Maybe. If Boston want him, and PK wants money and a perhaps better chance to win [or the perception of a better chance to win], he might be gone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemcstud View Post
Brent Morel is starting 3B next year on Opening Day.
I'd like to see him get a few hits this year and play well in Spring Training, but otherwise, why not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemcstud View Post
Teahen traded like Swisher to the Yankees trade version 2.
I could actually see this happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemcstud View Post
Flowers is Opening Day Catcher.
GOD no! I'm starting to believe that he has no value as an MLB player. Maybe he should have stayed on the PEDs, because he looks like he sucks at baseball now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemcstud View Post
Quentin new DH/4th OF
This would mean that KW would have to acquire an actual starting RFer. Since I don't see this happening, I'm guessing that Quentin will again tantalize us in 2011 with glimmers of brilliance, interspersed(sp?) between injuries and ****ty play. He may then be DFAed after 2011.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemcstud View Post
Viciedo package for either new RF or new pitching, depends on if it takes pitching or fielding the new OF.
Again, Viciedo has zero value, and this would be selling low. You'd have to get another GM to stupidly overpay in trade to the same degree that KW has done lately. Because of this, I don't see this happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemcstud View Post
Santos is new Closer.
Jenks non tendered.
Jenks probably will be non tendered, but Santos' 1.5 WHIP means that he's not yet good enough to be a closer.

Last edited by khan; 09-16-2010 at 11:09 AM. Reason: fixed some typos
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  #60  
Old 09-16-2010, 11:32 AM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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Viciedo certainly has some value. I don't think he's some super stud blue chip can't miss prospect, but he's shown that he might be a decent hitter with some nice pop, albeit one with little plate discipline and little defensive value.

Washington wanted him for Dunn (which I gladly would have obliged), and not much has really changed since then. I'm very down on the kid, but I think the statement that he has zero value is absurd.
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