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  #181  
Old 08-19-2010, 10:31 PM
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Daver Daver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff B View Post
I'm not following your logic. Scott Podsednik sucked.

Based on what?
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  #182  
Old 08-19-2010, 10:31 PM
tm1119 tm1119 is offline
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I ain't buying a bit of that.

A player defends his position on his ability to play his position, what he does at the plate means nothing in this perspective. The rest is fantasy baseball think that has no basis in fact or reality.
You can continue to live in whatever world you want, but here in reality there is definitely a direct correlation between the position a player plays and his production at the plate. There are of course exceptions, such as if a player brings exceptional speed or defense to the position, but Morel brings neither. Morel will be lucky if ever sees consistent playing in the big leagues if he stays at 3B.
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  #183  
Old 08-19-2010, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by tm1119 View Post
You can continue to live in whatever world you want, but here in reality there is definitely a direct correlation between the position a player plays and his production at the plate. There are of course exceptions, such as if a player brings exceptional speed or defense to the position, but Morel brings neither. Morel will be lucky if ever sees consistent playing in the big leagues if he stays at 3B.
That reality only exists in fantasy baseball.
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  #184  
Old 08-19-2010, 10:38 PM
Jeff B Jeff B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daver View Post
I ain't buying a bit of that.

A player defends his position on his ability to play his position, what he does at the plate means nothing in this perspective. The rest is fantasy baseball think that has no basis in fact or reality.
It's all about opportunity costs. Try this http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2008/1...er-sp#10783020
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  #185  
Old 08-19-2010, 10:40 PM
tm1119 tm1119 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daver View Post
That reality only exists in fantasy baseball.
Yet again you state your opinion as if its fact. Show me an example of a player that had a successful career at 3B that didnt bring exceptional power, speed, or defense to the table.
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  #186  
Old 08-19-2010, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff B View Post
It's all about opportunity costs. Try this http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2008/1...er-sp#10783020
Wrong argument to the wrong guy. Daver is too ignorant to even consider a stat like WAR.
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  #187  
Old 08-19-2010, 10:45 PM
Jeff B Jeff B is offline
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Originally Posted by tm1119 View Post
Wrong argument to the wrong guy. Daver is too ignorant to even consider a stat like WAR.
Gotcha. Thanks for the heads up.
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  #188  
Old 08-19-2010, 11:12 PM
SoxSpeed22 SoxSpeed22 is online now
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My point was in 2005, the Sox got bashed for trading home runs for speed in left field. 3rd base is widely regarded as a power position, but since the Sox can get home runs out of Alexei and Beckham (niether one playing positions that are expected to hit home runs) to make up for less power at 3rd base.
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  #189  
Old 08-19-2010, 11:39 PM
tm1119 tm1119 is offline
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Originally Posted by SoxSpeed22 View Post
My point was in 2005, the Sox got bashed for trading home runs for speed in left field. 3rd base is widely regarded as a power position, but since the Sox can get home runs out of Alexei and Beckham (niether one playing positions that are expected to hit home runs) to make up for less power at 3rd base.
Pods falls under 1 of the exceptions that I stated of having exceptional speed to make up for his lack of power.
Alexei doenst have exceptional power for a SS. He probably has slightly above average power for the position, and Beckham needs to prove that he can hit the ball period before we say has has above average power.
Regardless of what position Morel plays he just doesnt bring a whole lot to the table. He hasnt hit for power or gotten on base at a high rate. And I havent seen any scouting reports stating that he plays D exceptionally either. The fact that he plays 3b, a position regarded as a premium offensive position, is not going to help his path to the majors. However, if he can learn to play a position like 2B where weak bats are expected it would help his career a lot. Its common sense really.
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  #190  
Old 08-19-2010, 11:48 PM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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Originally Posted by tm1119 View Post
And I havent seen any scouting reports stating that he plays D exceptionally either.
What? He is well regarded for his defense at 3B.
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  #191  
Old 08-19-2010, 11:54 PM
sox1970 sox1970 is offline
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Since being sent down, Viciedo is 4-27 with 10 K's. And guess what? No walks.
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  #192  
Old 08-20-2010, 12:07 AM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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Originally Posted by sox1970 View Post
Since being sent down, Viciedo is 4-27 with 10 K's. And guess what? No walks.
Kevin_Goldstein
Including majors and minors, #WhiteSox 3B Dayan Viciedo hasn't drawn a walk since June 9th.
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  #193  
Old 08-20-2010, 09:50 AM
GAsoxfan GAsoxfan is offline
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Wild finish in Charlotte last night. Knights were down by one, with two outs in the bottom of the 9th, guys on 1st and 2nd. The batter struck out for out #3, but the ball got away from the catcher and he made it to first.

The pitcher proceeds to walk the next two batters, which scores two runs for the Knights. Game over.
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  #194  
Old 08-20-2010, 10:56 AM
Randar68 Randar68 is offline
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Originally Posted by tm1119 View Post
The fact that he plays 3b, a position regarded as a premium offensive position, is not going to help his path to the majors. However, if he can learn to play a position like 2B where weak bats are expected it would help his career a lot. Its common sense really.
Chone Figgins at 3rd? Placido Polanco? Both good but not GREAT defensively and with no real power threat.

This is moot though. The point you are making is one of "how to build a team". It's like the thought that your SS was a low power speed guy at the top of your order. That was true for most of the history of baseball up to the steroid era and Alex Rodriguez really broke that mold and shattered it. You might be able to give Cal Ripkin some credit too. That was how the majority of CF'ers were viewed as well.

But if you have a big middle fo the order at 2B, SS, CF, C, etc you can still use a guy that hits for high average without much pop. You simply cannot judge the value of a player (as a hitter) based solely on what defensive position he's going to play. You can say he doesn't fit on team X, Y or Z, but that doesn't mean he is a positionless waste of a player. Guys like that find the right fit and thrive, even if it is starting out as a utility player.
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  #195  
Old 08-20-2010, 04:15 PM
tm1119 tm1119 is offline
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Originally Posted by Randar68 View Post
Chone Figgins at 3rd? Placido Polanco? Both good but not GREAT defensively and with no real power threat.

This is moot though. The point you are making is one of "how to build a team". It's like the thought that your SS was a low power speed guy at the top of your order. That was true for most of the history of baseball up to the steroid era and Alex Rodriguez really broke that mold and shattered it. You might be able to give Cal Ripkin some credit too. That was how the majority of CF'ers were viewed as well.

But if you have a big middle fo the order at 2B, SS, CF, C, etc you can still use a guy that hits for high average without much pop. You simply cannot judge the value of a player (as a hitter) based solely on what defensive position he's going to play. You can say he doesn't fit on team X, Y or Z, but that doesn't mean he is a positionless waste of a player. Guys like that find the right fit and thrive, even if it is starting out as a utility player.
-Polanco is a 2b. Hes played there the majority of his career. Hes only playing 3b for the Phillies because he filled a hole for the them. Hes actually a perfect example of a guy who came up as a 3b, but was moved to 2b because of his weak bat.
-I already noted that game changing speed is an exception of a guy being able to stick at 3b with limited power. Plus, Figgins isnt a natural 3b either, hes played almost everywhere in his career.
- And of course there are always going to be exceptions of a guy being able to play a position his bat doesnt equate to. Certain teams have the luxury of having a potent lineup and getting away with playing a guy where he doenst belong(ex:philllies with polanco or yankees with gardner). We certainly arent 1 of those teams though. We have a weak lineup as it is, theres no way we could get away with playing a weak bat like Morel at 3B.
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