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  #16  
Old 07-17-2010, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by tm1119 View Post
We have AJ's successor in Flowers already, and Floyd, Danks, Peavy, and Buehrle are all under team control for the next few years with Hudson being a strong candidate as well. I have a strong feeling that at least 1 of Dayan or Morel will be traded at the deadline. Not for a rental though, not Kenny's style. I'm hoping for a surprise trade that brings us a good OF under contract for at least a little while. Dayan, Morel, and Jor. Danks could net us a pretty good arb. eligible player that a non contending team doesnt want to pay.
You sure about that? I mean the guy's showing some pop with a .482 slg in AAA but he's also hitting .232 with 95 K's in less than 300 PA...
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  #17  
Old 07-17-2010, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
You sure about that? I mean the guy's showing some pop with a .482 slg in AAA but he's also hitting .232 with 95 K's in less than 300 PA...
He also has no business wearing the tools at the MLB level, not that the White Sox put any stock in being able to field your position, they went into the season with Mark Teahen playing third base.
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  #18  
Old 07-17-2010, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
You sure about that? I mean the guy's showing some pop with a .482 slg in AAA but he's also hitting .232 with 95 K's in less than 300 PA...
This is a down year for him, as his lowest average in any other minor league season is .279(his 1st). Even so, .230/.330/.484 with 25 hr's is > than any line AJ has put up in a White Sox uniform. AJ cant get on base or hit for any kind of power, Flowers has good patience and has + power for a catcher. Plus flowers hit .122 in the month of May. Take that away and his average looks much better.

And as long as Flowers is capable of stopping the ball behind the plate he wont be far behind AJ's defense. AJ's defense is horribly overrated. He cant throw anybody out to save his life and we have a good, experienced pitching staff that doesnt need to rely on a catcher.

I personally feel fairly confident in letting AJ walk after this season and penciling Flowers into our starting lineup next year.
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  #19  
Old 07-17-2010, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by tm1119 View Post
This is a down year for him, as his lowest average in any other minor league season is .279(his 1st). Even so, .230/.330/.484 with 25 hr's is > than any line AJ has put up in a White Sox uniform. AJ cant get on base or hit for any kind of power, Flowers has good patience and has + power for a catcher. Plus flowers hit .122 in the month of May. Take that away and his average looks much better.

And as long as Flowers is capable of stopping the ball behind the plate he wont be far behind AJ's defense. AJ's defense is horribly overrated. He cant throw anybody out to save his life and we have a good, experienced pitching staff that doesnt need to rely on a catcher.

I personally feel fairly confident in letting AJ walk after this season and penciling Flowers into our starting lineup next year.
AJ is not a good defensive catcher, but Flowers will make you long for the days when AJ was providing his skills behind the plate, there is a lot more involved in the position than blocking balls and throwing out runners.
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  #20  
Old 07-17-2010, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Daver View Post
AJ is not a good defensive catcher, but Flowers will make you long for the days when AJ was providing his skills behind the plate, there is a lot more involved in the position than blocking balls and throwing out runners.
I fully understand that, and I admittedly haven't seen him catch at all so Im basing this completely what I have read recently. I know Merkin has said that he feels Flowers can be a league average defender. As has John Sickles. Which should be fine if he can hit 25 hrs and get on base at a good rate as he has shown in the minors.
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  #21  
Old 07-17-2010, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by tm1119 View Post
I fully understand that, and I admittedly haven't seen him catch at all so Im basing this completely what I have read recently. I know Merkin has said that he feels Flowers can be a league average defender. As has John Sickles. Which should be fine if he can hit 25 hrs and get on base at a good rate as he has shown in the minors.
I prefer not to let other people form my opinions for me, most of the time when you do that you set yourself up to look like a fool.

AJ brings an aspect to the table that Flowers will never ever be able to comprehend, that alone makes him more valuable than Flowers ever will be, even if he hits for a .500 average for five years.
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  #22  
Old 07-17-2010, 10:48 PM
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I prefer not to let other people form my opinions for me, most of the time when you do that you set yourself up to look like a fool.

AJ brings an aspect to the table that Flowers will never ever be able to comprehend, that alone makes him more valuable than Flowers ever will be, even if he hits for a .500 average for five
years.
you or I haven't seen nearly enough of Flowers
behind the plate to form a valid opinion so I don't know why you are speaking as if your opinion is fact. And professional baseball writers usually do know a lot more about baseball than the average fan(yourself)

and what is this great attribute AJ posses? Cause it certainly isn't skill or ralent. Let me guess, it's his grindiness?
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  #23  
Old 07-18-2010, 12:13 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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I'd rather not trade Morel.
I agree. But that's the million dollar question for Kenny: Do you trade away Morel if it can land you a power bat and go for broke this year?

I know some people think all of our prospects turn out to be garbage, but at some point this organization is going to have to develop some of its own talent to be a consistent contender. Good fielding and hitting 3Bs are hard to come by.
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  #24  
Old 07-18-2010, 12:21 AM
Jeff B Jeff B is offline
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Originally Posted by tm1119 View Post
you or I haven't seen nearly enough of Flowers
behind the plate to form a valid opinion so I don't know why you are speaking as if your opinion is fact. And professional baseball writers usually do know a lot more about baseball than the average fan(yourself)

and what is this great attribute AJ posses? Cause it certainly isn't skill or ralent. Let me guess, it's his grindiness?
Of course. Didn't you know that baseball is one part skill, one part luck and eight parts grindiness?
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  #25  
Old 07-18-2010, 12:27 AM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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Of course. Didn't you know that baseball is one part skill, one part luck and eight parts grindiness?
One can only hope that Flowers has been working on his temper tantrums and bat slamming after bad AB's. Grinder shoes are tough to fill.
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  #26  
Old 07-18-2010, 12:47 AM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Daver View Post
I prefer not to let other people form my opinions for me, most of the time when you do that you set yourself up to look like a fool.

AJ brings an aspect to the table that Flowers will never ever be able to comprehend, that alone makes him more valuable than Flowers ever will be, even if he hits for a .500 average for five years.
Man, I swear you'd be happy with elite defense on a .100 hitter behind the plate. I too wore the tools the vast majority of my time playing all the way through high school and a couple years of rec league, but the game just doesn't value defense enough behind the plate to make up for crap hitting anymore. I'll say one thing about Tyler, this camp his pop and fire down to second was unbelievably better than what I saw from his AFL and previous Spring. Not 1.6 good, but more than adequate and he's throwing out a hair under half of all base stealers this season, so... Not much in the mobility or positioning department, but he seems smart enough to grow his awareness there. Average defense means a lot more than it used to, maybe not how we would have it, but it is what it is and in a league where every position now values the bat over the glove, you go with the flow or risk getting stomped out with the dinosaurs. Kids these days are too protected to develop behind the plate like they used to, and good D + a good bat are needles in a haystack.
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  #27  
Old 07-18-2010, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
Man, I swear you'd be happy with elite defense on a .100 hitter behind the plate. I too wore the tools the vast majority of my time playing all the way through high school and a couple years of rec league, but the game just doesn't value defense enough behind the plate to make up for crap hitting anymore. I'll say one thing about Tyler, this camp his pop and fire down to second was unbelievably better than what I saw from his AFL and previous Spring. Not 1.6 good, but more than adequate and he's throwing out a hair under half of all base stealers this season, so... Not much in the mobility or positioning department, but he seems smart enough to grow his awareness there. Average defense means a lot more than it used to, maybe not how we would have it, but it is what it is and in a league where every position now values the bat over the glove, you go with the flow or risk getting stomped out with the dinosaurs. Kids these days are too protected to develop behind the plate like they used to, and good D + a good bat are needles in a haystack.
He doesn't call his own game like Daver did in high school! Flowers suxxxx!!!
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  #28  
Old 07-18-2010, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
I agree. But that's the million dollar question for Kenny: Do you trade away Morel if it can land you a power bat and go for broke this year?

I know some people think all of our prospects turn out to be garbage, but at some point this organization is going to have to develop some of it's own talent to be a consistent contender. Good fielding and hitting 3Bs are hard to come by.
IMO you get your best chance to win a WS by getting yourself into the playoffs consistently and as often as you can. That will take development of young players.
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  #29  
Old 07-18-2010, 11:10 AM
tm1119 tm1119 is offline
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IMO you get your best chance to win a WS by getting yourself into the playoffs consistently and as often as you can. That will take development of young players.
Or you trade those unproven prospects for more proven players like KW has in the past. Serious question, Has KW ever traded for a rent-a-player? Griffey is the only 1 that comes to my mind, but he doesnt really count since he was more or less given to us. Kenny seems to always be able to trade for players that we can keep(peavy, rios, Q, gavin, ect...). I dont see how anyone could complain if we traded Morel and others(not named Hudson or Mitchell) for an established player under 30 that is under control for the next few years.
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  #30  
Old 07-18-2010, 11:18 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is online now
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Originally Posted by tm1119 View Post
And as long as Flowers is capable of stopping the ball behind the plate he wont be far behind AJ's defense. AJ's defense is horribly overrated. He cant throw anybody out to save his life and we have a good, experienced pitching staff that doesnt need to rely on a catcher.

I personally feel fairly confident in letting AJ walk after this season and penciling Flowers into our starting lineup next year.
His caught stealing pct. is up this year, tough to throw guys out when you have starters like Contreras (up until last august), Floyd, Garcia, etc. who aren't the best at holding runners on.

The rest of his overall defense is above average, he calls the pitches (vs. Cooper or OG)...the idea that veteran pitchers don't rely on a veteran catcher is ridiculous. So Danks, Floyd and Hudson won't need a veteran catcher? Santos & Pena? Doesn't make sense.

Not way do we replace a proven veteran with a guy who can't put together a solid AAA season. I hope we re-sign AJ to a 2-3 year deal...over time of the contract...phase in Flowers or someone else.
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