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  #46  
Old 07-14-2010, 12:15 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Everyone needs to read this article before venting about "rushing" Sale.

6th paragraph down explains the circumstances
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  #47  
Old 07-14-2010, 10:22 AM
cws05champ cws05champ is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Everyone needs to read this article before venting about "rushing" Sale.

6th paragraph down explains the circumstances
I did read it when he first signed....I still think he is being rushed. From High A to AAA after 4 appearances is still rushed. I know he will be a reliever this year and go back to starting but I still think you need to keep him on a steady progression to AA for a bit and then AAA.
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  #48  
Old 07-14-2010, 11:35 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by cws05champ View Post
I did read it when he first signed....I still think he is being rushed. From High A to AAA after 4 appearances is still rushed. I know he will be a reliever this year and go back to starting but I still think you need to keep him on a steady progression to AA for a bit and then AAA.
I think there are plenty with your line of thinking, but is there any prevailing reason why you think this?
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  #49  
Old 07-14-2010, 12:27 PM
cws05champ cws05champ is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
I think there are plenty with your line of thinking, but is there any prevailing reason why you think this?
There is a reason there are different levels of minor league baseball, to develop talent as it matures against similar or better competition. If he was simply overmatching High A hitters, that's fine. But I don't know why they would skip AA Birmingham and go to a band box in AAA after only 4 IP when he is still probably getting his body used to relieving again (which he hasn't done in 2 years). There is a big difference between pitching at Florida Gulf Coast college in front of a couple thousand people and pitching in the majors in front of 35-40K.
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  #50  
Old 07-14-2010, 01:37 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Everyone needs to read this article before venting about "rushing" Sale.

6th paragraph down explains the circumstances
You know a lot more about this than I do.
But, as I read that article, it really doesn't say we aren't rushing him; it just explains why we are rushing him - so JR wouldn't have to pay over slot.
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  #51  
Old 07-14-2010, 10:14 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by cws05champ View Post
There is a reason there are different levels of minor league baseball, to develop talent as it matures against similar or better competition. If he was simply overmatching High A hitters, that's fine. But I don't know why they would skip AA Birmingham and go to a band box in AAA after only 4 IP when he is still probably getting his body used to relieving again (which he hasn't done in 2 years). There is a big difference between pitching at Florida Gulf Coast college in front of a couple thousand people and pitching in the majors in front of 35-40K.
Isn't that first part kind of a guess on your part? I haven't gotten any video of his appearances in W/S, so there's no way to know for sure whether or not he was having an easy go of it.

Skipping AA is not that big of a deal, often there are more talented players in AA than AAA. Also, I can't imagine that the org. would risk hurting this guys arm after just giving him over a million dollars. The Sox do have a pretty good history of keeping their pitchers injury free, so I'm going to trust that they have an idea of how to acclimate Sale to the bullpen with no problems.
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  #52  
Old 07-14-2010, 10:23 PM
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This whole "rushing" ideology is just plain garbage. The fact that people actually believe the only way to achieve is to go from point A to B to C then to D is beyond naive.
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  #53  
Old 07-14-2010, 11:00 PM
Coops4Aces Coops4Aces is offline
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This whole "rushing" ideology is just plain garbage. The fact that people actually believe the only way to achieve is to go from point A to B to C then to D is beyond naive.
Thank you! This x1000.

Who is to say that he wasn't already good to go but they are just letting him get his feet wet in the minors? I don't know and neither does anyone here. Maybe they are rushing him, but maybe he comes in and pulls another Bobby Jenks. I love the idea of bringing him up if he's ready. He could take some innings away from Matty Ice and maybe eat a few innings if we need a long reliever every once in a while.
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  #54  
Old 07-14-2010, 11:42 PM
BadBobbyJenks BadBobbyJenks is offline
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If he comes up here, he is taking over the Loogy role we just had Randy and Threets in, how much harm can that really cause him?
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  #55  
Old 07-15-2010, 10:30 AM
cws05champ cws05champ is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Isn't that first part kind of a guess on your part? I haven't gotten any video of his appearances in W/S, so there's no way to know for sure whether or not he was having an easy go of it.

Skipping AA is not that big of a deal, often there are more talented players in AA than AAA. Also, I can't imagine that the org. would risk hurting this guys arm after just giving him over a million dollars. The Sox do have a pretty good history of keeping their pitchers injury free, so I'm going to trust that they have an idea of how to acclimate Sale to the bullpen with no problems.
Yes, it is a guess on my half on his appearances at W/S...that was part of my point, I don't know if he was overmatching guys or not because we can not tell from stats in 4 IP and there's no video.

And I know that there some of the top prospects in the game are at AA, but then why would they skip him over AA. AAA has some top prospects and some AAAA types that have seen ML pitching before.

There are exceptions to the norm of players following a progression through the system, and maybe he will be one of them. I hope he will be and will succeed early on.

I don't think every guy needs to go through the same progression through the minors, but the system is set up that way for a reason. My whole point is moving a guy up 2 levels(to one step away from the majors) after 4 IP in Pro baseball seems a bit drastic. I hope he does well and helps us down the stretch.
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  #56  
Old 07-15-2010, 10:42 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by cws05champ View Post
I don't think every guy needs to go through the same progression through the minors, but the system is set up that way for a reason. My whole point is moving a guy up 2 levels(to one step away from the majors) after 4 IP in Pro baseball seems a bit drastic. I hope he does well and helps us down the stretch.
Well put, I don't see anything wrong with your argument at all. I'm very anxious to see his outings in Charlotte.
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  #57  
Old 07-15-2010, 03:15 PM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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jimcallisBA
Yes. Maybe Aug. 1. Will SP again next year. @WindyCityFlyer: Do you see Chris Sale breaking into the White Sox bullpen before season's end?
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  #58  
Old 07-15-2010, 04:21 PM
kjhanson kjhanson is offline
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Originally Posted by ... View Post
This whole "rushing" ideology is just plain garbage. The fact that people actually believe the only way to achieve is to go from point A to B to C then to D is beyond naive.
This statement has already been lauded but it's worth more praise. Baseball is an incredibly variable game - both from the standpoint of what happens on the field - and what it takes to actually get on the field. Employing a one-size-fits-all model for any organization is plain ignorance.
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  #59  
Old 07-15-2010, 05:02 PM
Pablo_Honey Pablo_Honey is offline
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Originally Posted by kjhanson View Post
This statement has already been lauded but it's worth more praise. Baseball is an incredibly variable game - both from the standpoint of what happens on the field - and what it takes to actually get on the field. Employing a one-size-fits-all model for any organization is plain ignorance.
I somewhat agree that some guys can afford to skip some levels of the minors, but minors aren't there just to prepare guys physically. It allows guys to prepare themselves mentally for the Show. If all the guy's ever experienced is success before getting called up, he is going to hit the wall hard and have trouble recovering from it (See: Gordon Beckham). The Sox as an organization has done a ****ty job at developing prospects and part of it has to do with occasionally rushing guys before giving them proper seasoning down in the minors. Where has that gotten the Sox?

I've been thinking more and more about the whole Sale thing and I'm starting to become weary of it. This just screams cheap all over and it looks like they exploited Sale's desire to play in the Show to get a discount without even thinking about long-term consequences. Hopefully they make him stay down in the minors until he is deemed ready and not bring him up just because they promised to bring him up.
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  #60  
Old 07-15-2010, 05:09 PM
Coops4Aces Coops4Aces is offline
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Originally Posted by Pablo_Honey View Post
I somewhat agree that some guys can afford to skip some levels of the minors, but minors aren't there just to prepare guys physically. It allows guys to prepare themselves mentally for the Show. If all the guy's ever experienced is success before getting called up, he is going to hit the wall hard and have trouble recovering from it (See: Gordon Beckham). The Sox as an organization has done a ****ty job at developing prospects and part of it has to do with occasionally rushing guys before giving them proper seasoning down in the minors. Where has that gotten the Sox?

I've been thinking more and more about the whole Sale thing and I'm starting to become weary of it. This just screams cheap all over and it looks like they exploited Sale's desire to play in the Show to get a discount without even thinking about long-term consequences. Hopefully they make him stay down in the minors until he is deemed ready and not bring him up just because they promised to bring him up.
Come on. Many many people have a sophomore slump, that's why there is a term for it. Beckham will be fine IMO and nothing that has happened to him has any bearing on Sale.
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