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  #16  
Old 04-16-2010, 07:35 PM
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I don't even know if this is a line that should impress me. I saw better than this from Grady Hall in person in AAA a little over 20 years ago, and, having seen it, I could see the numbers didn't tell the whole story.

Umpiring can be wildly inconsistent in AAA. Against some AAA teams, you can get away with only one pitch. I don't know what sort of a strike zone Hudson was dealing with. I don't know why Hudson didn't go a full 6 innings. He didn't even pitch a quality start.

Indeed, Hudson might have great stuff. He might be a great pitcher. But these stats don't tell me much, least of all what he'll do in the majors.
I don't even know what to say about this post. What the hell is the point of it?
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  #17  
Old 04-16-2010, 07:40 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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I don't even know what to say about this post. What the hell is the point of it?
The point is that you can't assume a pitcher is going to succeed in the major leagues because based on minor league stats, let alone be a stud in your rotation.
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  #18  
Old 04-16-2010, 08:05 PM
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The point is that you can't assume a pitcher is going to succeed in the major leagues because based on minor league stats, let alone be a stud in your rotation.



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  #19  
Old 04-16-2010, 08:39 PM
JohnTucker0814 JohnTucker0814 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
The point is that you can't assume a pitcher is going to succeed in the major leagues because based on minor league stats, let alone be a stud in your rotation.
Stats aren't the only thing you can look at, but for people that can't watch him in person, stats are the main thing we look at. I don't really care if the umpire sucks, the hitters are ****ty, or whatever... if a pitcher puts up consistent solid above average numbers, then I'm gonna assume he's a pretty above average talent.
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  #20  
Old 04-16-2010, 09:26 PM
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Stats aren't the only thing you can look at, but for people that can't watch him in person, stats are the main thing we look at. I don't really care if the umpire sucks, the hitters are ****ty, or whatever... if a pitcher puts up consistent solid above average numbers, then I'm gonna assume he's a pretty above average talent.
Your assumption is usually wrong, if you expect "pretty above average talent" to equate to major league success.

I pretty much only commented because I disagree with people who think this numbers mean Hudson is a future star. I want to hear what people whose judgment I trust say about a minor league pitcher before I get excited about what he could do for my team.

And I would be concerned if he is only pitching 5.2 innings in a start. There might be an explanation, but that to me stands out more than the strikeouts.

However, I am happy when I see a minor league pitcher in the Sox system who doesn't have terrible numbers. I've seen guys in Class A ball who average 2-point-something strikeouts per inning but have ERAs over 8.
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  #21  
Old 04-16-2010, 09:33 PM
Craig Grebeck Craig Grebeck is offline
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It means they are easing him into the season with an inning limit. Follow baseball.
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  #22  
Old 04-16-2010, 10:14 PM
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It means they are easing him into the season with an inning limit. Follow baseball.
Hudson didn't pitch six innings. I've seen a lot of minor-league baseball. I generally don't see starters who are cruising taken out mid-inning unless they are rehabbing, even in April.

If they have Hudson on a pitch count so strict, even in April, that he has to come out with one out remaining in the sixth inning, he is probably a long way from being a solid major-league starting pitcher. If he wasn't cruising, but actually had run out of gas and was in trouble, he also is probably a long way from being a solid major-league starter.

It is hard for me to get excited about that line unless someone whose judgment I trust was at the game and shared observational reasons to excited. Really, I'm not asking how many people he struck out, which may or may not mean anything. I'm asking someone who was at the game to tell me how he looked and why he came out without finishing the sixth.
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  #23  
Old 04-16-2010, 10:31 PM
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Hudson didn't pitch six innings. I've seen a lot of minor-league baseball. I generally don't see starters who are cruising taken out mid-inning unless they are rehabbing, even in April.

If they have Hudson on a pitch count so strict, even in April, that he has to come out with one out remaining in the sixth inning, he is probably a long way from being a solid major-league starting pitcher. If he wasn't cruising, but actually had run out of gas and was in trouble, he also is probably a long way from being a solid major-league starter.

It is hard for me to get excited about that line unless someone whose judgment I trust was at the game and shared observational reasons to excited. Really, I'm not asking how many people he struck out, which may or may not mean anything. I'm asking someone who was at the game to tell me how he looked and why he came out without finishing the sixth.

Here's an idea, read a ****ing scouting report. Check out a site like futuresox.com where many of the members actually watch these games. It's not just this "line", Hudson's 2009 was beyond impressive.
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  #24  
Old 04-17-2010, 02:01 AM
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Here's an idea, read a ****ing scouting report. Check out a site like futuresox.com where many of the members actually watch these games. It's not just this "line", Hudson's 2009 was beyond impressive.
I was responding to a comment made about a line assuming that nine strikeouts in less than six innings of a minor league game showed a player was going to be a star.

I responded that I have seen more impressive lines from pitchers who didn't become stars. For that matter, I've seen more impressie seasons than his 2009 from pitchers who have struggled in the majors. And, getting back to the original point, I don't believe 5.2 impressive, not even shutout innings in AAA should get anyone excited about the chance that he will replace Jake Peavy in the rotation anytime soon.
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  #25  
Old 04-17-2010, 06:35 AM
Konerko05 Konerko05 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Hudson didn't pitch six innings. I've seen a lot of minor-league baseball. I generally don't see starters who are cruising taken out mid-inning unless they are rehabbing, even in April.

If they have Hudson on a pitch count so strict, even in April, that he has to come out with one out remaining in the sixth inning, he is probably a long way from being a solid major-league starting pitcher. If he wasn't cruising, but actually had run out of gas and was in trouble, he also is probably a long way from being a solid major-league starter.

It is hard for me to get excited about that line unless someone whose judgment I trust was at the game and shared observational reasons to excited. Really, I'm not asking how many people he struck out, which may or may not mean anything. I'm asking someone who was at the game to tell me how he looked and why he came out without finishing the sixth.
Weren't you just saying it's stupid to evaluate young picthing based on minor league stats? Yet you're going to make a judgement on if he's ready for the majors based on one start where he dominated, but didn't pitching six innings?
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  #26  
Old 04-17-2010, 03:21 PM
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Weren't you just saying it's stupid to evaluate young picthing based on minor league stats? Yet you're going to make a judgement on if he's ready for the majors based on one start where he dominated, but didn't pitching six innings?
In response to a couple of posters expressing excitement that he could step into the rotation soon, even with the ability to provide more than Peavy, I wrote that the line didn't indicate any such thing. I didn't indicate I believed he did not have potential to be a very good pitcher.

If he were both dominating and major league ready, you would expect him to go more than six innings. I might be wrong, but I would hate to think the White Sox system is developing starting pitchers to only go six innings. At the major league level, Sox starters should be going more than six innings. Minor league starters who are major league ready should be going more than six innings when they aren't facing major league lineups.

But that may be a complaint about pitcher development. I think John Danks would have come up as a better major league pitcher if he had thrown a few complete games in the minors. It relates to stamina and mindset. Jim Parque actually believed his job was to go five innings.
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  #27  
Old 04-17-2010, 03:28 PM
tm1119 tm1119 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Hudson didn't pitch six innings. I've seen a lot of minor-league baseball. I generally don't see starters who are cruising taken out mid-inning unless they are rehabbing, even in April.

If they have Hudson on a pitch count so strict, even in April, that he has to come out with one out remaining in the sixth inning, he is probably a long way from being a solid major-league starting pitcher. If he wasn't cruising, but actually had run out of gas and was in trouble, he also is probably a long way from being a solid major-league starter.

It is hard for me to get excited about that line unless someone whose judgment I trust was at the game and shared observational reasons to excited. Really, I'm not asking how many people he struck out, which may or may not mean anything. I'm asking someone who was at the game to tell me how he looked and why he came out without finishing the sixth.
Stephen Strasburg's 1st minor league start- 5 IP 4 R 1 ER 2 BB 8 K.

Oh no! Strasburg couldnt even make it to the 6th! His prospect status just took a huge hit!

Seriously though, your logic makes no sense. Of course Hudson is on a pitch count. Why wouldnt he be? Its his 1st start of the season and the Sox management is protecting his arm. Plus they may be saving his arm because they know we will need him later in the season(if we can somehow get into contention).
Hudson may never be an ace, but he has a bright future ahead of him as a major league starting pitcher if he stays healthy.
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  #28  
Old 04-17-2010, 05:53 PM
Konerko05 Konerko05 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
In response to a couple of posters expressing excitement that he could step into the rotation soon, even with the ability to provide more than Peavy, I wrote that the line didn't indicate any such thing. I didn't indicate I believed he did not have potential to be a very good pitcher.

If he were both dominating and major league ready, you would expect him to go more than six innings. I might be wrong, but I would hate to think the White Sox system is developing starting pitchers to only go six innings. At the major league level, Sox starters should be going more than six innings. Minor league starters who are major league ready should be going more than six innings when they aren't facing major league lineups.

But that may be a complaint about pitcher development. I think John Danks would have come up as a better major league pitcher if he had thrown a few complete games in the minors. It relates to stamina and mindset. Jim Parque actually believed his job was to go five innings.
How can you keep writing this many paragraphs on one start, which happened to be his first of the season?
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  #29  
Old 04-17-2010, 10:57 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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How can you keep writing this many paragraphs on one start, which happened to be his first of the season?
It seemed necessary to respond to people who misunderstood my posts.
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  #30  
Old 04-24-2010, 03:00 AM
JermaineDye05 JermaineDye05 is offline
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Flowers hit his 3rd HR of the year tonight, he drove in 3 as well.

His numbers through 12 games:

.310 3 HR 3 2B 14 RBI 11/6 K/BB
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