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  #31  
Old 03-10-2010, 08:59 PM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCrawdad View Post
Merkin's column mentioned that Mitchell has two SB in six at bats this spring. Your negative swipe of Mitchell's base-stealing skills is not based on facts, nor a surprise from you.
CG's assessment isn't that far off. The skills might not be "non-existent" but they certainly aren't honed very well. It's one of the many facets of his game that he needs to work on. It's been documented in many places other than this.

Last edited by DirtySox; 03-10-2010 at 09:04 PM.
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  #32  
Old 03-10-2010, 09:19 PM
BoKnowsBest BoKnowsBest is offline
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From what I've seen to this point he's made up for his raw skills by utilizing his pure speed. Once he refines his technique and learns the tendencies of pitchers, sure, he could be a great base stealer, but at this point he's stealing bases despite those aspects rather than because of them.
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  #33  
Old 03-10-2010, 09:25 PM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
CG's assessment isn't that far off. The skills might not be "non-existent" but they certainly aren't honed very well. It's one of the many facets of his game that he needs to work on. It's been documented in many places other than this.
By comparison Johnny Damon at 20 yrs old, in his 3rd year of "professional" baseball Damon had a 0.093 SB/AB. Mitchell's .0434 in his first year of "professional" baseball.

I agree with you. But "non-existent" is an over-the-top negative assessment IMHO.
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  #34  
Old 03-10-2010, 09:53 PM
BoKnowsBest BoKnowsBest is offline
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I think that the sample size for Mitchell is still far too small to really be able to make that comparison. Give it a handful of games and that SB/AB can change radically.

Nobody's arguing that he doesn't have the tools to become a great base stealer, just that at this point in his development he's not worth calling up to be a base stealing specialist at the end of the year. They'd be better off having De Aza in that role cause they don't have to worry about his arbitration clock starting with the call up, he's got a little more experience, and he's incredibly quick as well
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  #35  
Old 03-10-2010, 11:05 PM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Originally Posted by BoKnowsBest View Post
I think that the sample size for Mitchell is still far too small to really be able to make that comparison. Give it a handful of games and that SB/AB can change radically.

Nobody's arguing that he doesn't have the tools to become a great base stealer, just that at this point in his development he's not worth calling up to be a base stealing specialist at the end of the year. They'd be better off having De Aza in that role cause they don't have to worry about his arbitration clock starting with the call up, he's got a little more experience, and he's incredibly quick as well
I agree it is a small sample size and to seize on it and exclaim that Mitchell has no skills for base stealing is ridiculous. 35 games is a small sample size, true. If in those mere 35 games he'd stolen 35 bases I would argue that it would be too soon to proclaim him the next Ricky Henderson.
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  #36  
Old 03-10-2010, 11:12 PM
Craig Grebeck Craig Grebeck is offline
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Stealing bases in minor league games is meaningless, for one. Secondly, non-existent at this point. Tools do not equal skills.
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  #37  
Old 03-10-2010, 11:17 PM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Originally Posted by Craig Grebeck View Post
Stealing bases in minor league games is meaningless, for one. Secondly, non-existent at this point. Tools do not equal skills.
So you're point is? That if confronted with stats or evidence contrary to your negative, pessimistic opinion you're still right?
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  #38  
Old 03-10-2010, 11:19 PM
Craig Grebeck Craig Grebeck is offline
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So you're point is? That if confronted with stats or evidence contrary to your negative, pessimistic opinion you're still right?
And your point is what exactly? A poster said he could come up and provide value as a pinch runner. I said he can't steal bases at the major league level, yet. You threw out a 5/8 stealing bases in A ball as though it was a counter to my argument.

Citing 5/8 in A ball for a college player and 2 SB in spring training certainly doesn't qualify as evidence. More like noise.
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  #39  
Old 03-10-2010, 11:20 PM
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Maybe you two could simply put each other on ignore, you know, walk away. The next constructive argument you two have will be the first. It's time to put it down...
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  #40  
Old 03-10-2010, 11:22 PM
Craig Grebeck Craig Grebeck is offline
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Maybe you two could simply put each other on ignore, you know, walk away. The next constructive argument you two have will be the first. It's time to put it down...
I still see no reason why this can't be a rational discussion about the utter lack of utility provided by A ball stolen base numbers.
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  #41  
Old 03-10-2010, 11:24 PM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Originally Posted by Craig Grebeck View Post
And your point is what exactly? A poster said he could come up and provide value as a pinch runner. I said he can't steal bases at the major league level, yet. You threw out a 5/8 stealing bases in A ball as though it was a counter to my argument.

Citing 5/8 in A ball for a college player and 2 SB in spring training certainly doesn't qualify as evidence. More like noise.
Maybe that is what you meant, but it's not what you said.

"If I remember correctly, his base-stealing skills are non-existent at this point."

I don't think JM is ready for MLB. I look forward to seeing him when he's ready and I'll enjoy even more every time he steals a base.
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  #42  
Old 03-10-2010, 11:25 PM
Craig Grebeck Craig Grebeck is offline
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Originally Posted by DrCrawdad View Post
Maybe that is what you meant, but it's not what you said.

"If I remember correctly, his base-stealing skills are non-existent at this point."

I don't think JM is ready for MLB. I look forward to seeing him when he's ready and I'll enjoy even more every time he steals a base.
I stand by my comment.
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  #43  
Old 03-11-2010, 12:30 AM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Originally Posted by Craig Grebeck View Post
I still see no reason why this can't be a rational discussion about the utter lack of utility provided by A ball stolen base numbers.
I wish this to be non-personal, I am curious as to what you base that opinion of yours on, if not his sole year in professional baseball then what?

For the record, here are Jared Mitchell's college SB stats.

'07 209AB 18SB 2CS .086SB/AB
'08 175AB 16SB 2CS .091SB/AB
'09 226AB 36SB 9CS .159SB/AB

As a reference, Ricky Henderson had a 0.128 career SB/AB ratio.
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  #44  
Old 03-11-2010, 12:51 AM
Craig Grebeck Craig Grebeck is offline
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Originally Posted by DrCrawdad View Post
I wish this to be non-personal, I am curious as to what you base that opinion of yours on, if not his sole year in professional baseball then what?

For the record, here are Jared Mitchell's college SB stats.

'07 209AB 18SB 2CS .086SB/AB
'08 175AB 16SB 2CS .091SB/AB
'09 226AB 36SB 9CS .159SB/AB

As a reference, Ricky Henderson had a 0.128 career SB/AB ratio.
Scouting reports. I don't care for college stats.
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  #45  
Old 03-11-2010, 06:21 AM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Originally Posted by Craig Grebeck View Post
Scouting reports. I don't care for college stats.
Scouting reports? Where do you get the scouting reports? I'd be interested to read the scouting reports on JM.
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