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  #16  
Old 01-27-2010, 04:25 PM
mzh mzh is offline
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Originally Posted by khan View Post
What's more is that I don't recall a midseason pickup being crucial to turning the SOX's fortunes in recent years. Griffey, Jr. was not the reason why the SOX won the division in 2008, for example. Similarly, neither Rios nor Peavy were able to turn the tide for the 2009 White Sox.
In all fairness Geoff Blum ended up being pretty important...

I guess there was the Charles Johnson trade in 2000, and from what I remember he was on fire down the stretch. Other than that I must say your right. Carl Everett couldn't win us the division in 2003 or 2004, and dealing Ray Durham and Kenny Lofton got us nowhere is 2002. The lone exception is 2006, when we did start out fielding a solid team (defending champs of course), but 90 wins just wasn't enough.
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  #17  
Old 01-27-2010, 05:21 PM
Sargeant79 Sargeant79 is offline
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Originally Posted by mzh View Post
In all fairness Geoff Blum ended up being pretty important...

I guess there was the Charles Johnson trade in 2000, and from what I remember he was on fire down the stretch. Other than that I must say your right. Carl Everett couldn't win us the division in 2003 or 2004, and dealing Ray Durham and Kenny Lofton got us nowhere is 2002. The lone exception is 2006, when we did start out fielding a solid team (defending champs of course), but 90 wins just wasn't enough.
Your point is right, but don't forget that Carl Everett may not have had a lot to do with 2003 or 2004, but he sure played a big part in 2005.
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  #18  
Old 01-27-2010, 10:37 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Oh look it's the annual Keith Law is a (genius/idiot) thread. It must be close to ST!
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  #19  
Old 01-27-2010, 11:34 PM
BadBobbyJenks BadBobbyJenks is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Oh look it's the annual Keith Law is a (genius/idiot) thread. It must be close to ST!
Lol, exactly what I was thinking before I even opened the thread.
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  #20  
Old 01-28-2010, 12:26 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Because Williams uses his farm players, I think a measure of our "system" based on the quality of current talent will inherently understate the quality of our "system."
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  #21  
Old 01-28-2010, 12:22 PM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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Law's top 100 is up.

58. Tyler Flowers
95. Jared Mitchell

Hudson not making the list is rather curious. I understand he doesn't have the highest ceiling, but I think he's a safe bet to end up a mid-rotation starter. He should be in the top 60 imo. I have him in front of Flowers personally.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insid...26id%3d4856310
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  #22  
Old 01-28-2010, 12:26 PM
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asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
Law's top 100 is up.

58. Tyler Flowers
95. Jared Mitchell

Hudson not making the list is rather curious. I understand he doesn't have the highest ceiling, but I think he's a safe bet to end up a mid-rotation starter. He should be in the top 60 imo. I have him in front of Flowers personally.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insid...26id%3d4856310
Maybe he is including Hudson on the MLB roster from the start of the season and thus does not consider him a minor leaguer.
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  #23  
Old 01-28-2010, 12:27 PM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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Originally Posted by Law
I've made one adjustment in my ranking philosophy, favoring higher-upside prospects over lower-ceiling prospects who are closer to the majors.
That might explain it, but he should still crack a top 100 even with that philosophy.
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  #24  
Old 01-28-2010, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Because Williams uses his farm players, I think a measure of our "system" based on the quality of current talent will inherently understate the quality of our "system."
I continue to be astonished by how often KW trades for a proven MLB veteran with our minor leaguers. You would think by now other GMs would have caught on. This is by no means a defense of how poorly our scouting/drafting/development system has been under KW, but just a statement on how he gets max value in most minor leaguers-for-major leaguer trades.
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  #25  
Old 01-28-2010, 12:32 PM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
I continue to be astonished by how often KW trades for a proven MLB veteran with our minor leaguers. You would think by now other GMs would have caught on. This is by no means a defense of how poorly our scouting/drafting/development system has been under KW, but just a statement on how he gets max value in most minor leaguers-for-major leaguer trades.
I don't mind all the trading, but I don't like how empty the ammo box gets. A team can still trade prospects and have a somewhat fruitful system. I really hope Kenny takes a prolonged reloading phase to better find a balance.

Spending more on the draft would be nice too...
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  #26  
Old 01-28-2010, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
I don't mind all the trading, but I don't like how empty the ammo box gets. A team can still trade prospects and have a somewhat fruitful system. I really hope Kenny takes a prolonged reloading phase to better find a balance.

Spending more on the draft would be nice too...
I definitely agree. It is the one major criticism I have about KW.
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  #27  
Old 01-28-2010, 12:39 PM
thedudeabides thedudeabides is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
That might explain it, but he should still crack a top 100 even with that philosophy.
Nope, he's eligibale according to his guidelines. He just left him off. He also said Viciedo is not even a prospect.

You really shouldn't take Law all that seriously. He did spend some time in the Toronto front office, but was not very well respected there, in fact a lot of the people he worked with had some pretty disparaging comments about him.

From what I have heard, the odds of him getting back into a baseball front office are about as good as Steve Phillips.

Also, these lists shouldn't be taken all that seriously from anyone. It is impossible for any person to get a good take on all 30 minor league systems, and especially be able to effectively scout hundreds of players and rank them with any accuracy.

The funny thing is, I saw him on TV the other day, and he said the Sox are the clear favorites in the Central this year.
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  #28  
Old 01-28-2010, 12:44 PM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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Originally Posted by thedudeabides View Post
Nope, he's eligibale according to his guidelines. He just left him off. He also said Viciedo is not even a prospect.

You really shouldn't take Law all that seriously. He did spend some time in the Toronto front office, but was not very well respected there, in fact a lot of the people he worked with had some pretty disparaging comments about him.

From what I have heard, the odds of him getting back into a baseball front office are about as good as Steve Phillips.

Also, these lists shouldn't be taken all that seriously from anyone. It is impossible for any person to get a good take on all 30 minor league systems, and especially be able to effectively scout hundreds of players and rank them with any accuracy.
Right.

I don't take Law and lists all too seriously, but I am a big Sickels fan and also like BA and BP. I just enjoy talking/reading/analyzing prospects and lists spur such discussion.
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  #29  
Old 01-28-2010, 01:21 PM
oeo oeo is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
I don't mind all the trading, but I don't like how empty the ammo box gets. A team can still trade prospects and have a somewhat fruitful system. I really hope Kenny takes a prolonged reloading phase to better find a balance.

Spending more on the draft would be nice too...
Name a team that's as aggressive as the Sox in the trade market and has a 'fruitful system.' The teams that have good systems year in and year out don't trade their prospects. It's really not possible, you have to reload every year. One big trade will drain a good portion of your Top 5, which just absolutely kills you in these rankings.

As soon as the Sox start to reload, like last year, they just trade again. They've needed to draft and develop better, and it appears they've started to do a bit better, but we need to accept that Kenny and Co. have a different philosophy on this stuff. They have their guys that are untouchable, but the rest can go if it means bettering the big league club today.

Last edited by oeo; 01-28-2010 at 01:32 PM.
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  #30  
Old 01-28-2010, 01:29 PM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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Originally Posted by oeo View Post
Name a team that's as aggressive as the Sox in the trade market and has a 'fruitful system.' The teams that have good systems year in and year out don't trade their prospects. It's really not possible, you have to reload every year. One big trade will drain a good portion of your Top 5, which just absolutely kills you in these rankings.
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