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  #31  
Old 08-24-2009, 10:09 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Craig Grebeck View Post
Yeah, nevermind the 3 ER in his last 12.2 innings, or the fact that your definitive and concrete statement lacks any evidence or rationale.
A deceptive statistic for a relief pitcher. Hopefully Pena will be an effective pitcher.
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  #32  
Old 08-24-2009, 10:22 AM
Dibbs Dibbs is offline
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Originally Posted by Craig Grebeck View Post
Yeah, nevermind the 3 ER in his last 12.2 innings, or the fact that your definitive and concrete statement lacks any evidence or rationale.
LOL, I guess your concrete evidence of his conveniently picked last 12 IP take precedence over his career stats. I watch him pitch and I don't see him being a good reliever anytime soon. I hope we hang on to Dotel. It is nice to have that strikeout pitcher coming out of the pen with people on base. I hope Kenny proves me wrong on this one. I think he gave up much, much more than he had to on this one. Not to mention, Pena is no spring chicken.

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  #33  
Old 08-24-2009, 10:29 AM
Craig Grebeck Craig Grebeck is offline
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Originally Posted by Dibbs View Post
LOL, I guess your concrete evidence of his conveniently picked last 12 IP take precedence over his career stats. I watch him pitch and I don't see him being a good reliever anytime soon. I hope we hang on to Dotel. It is nice to have that strikeout pitcher coming out of the pen with people on base. I hope Kenny proves me wrong on this one. I think he gave up much, much more than he had to on this one. Not to mention, Pena is no spring chicken.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...playerId=30045
He's not old either, and I'm not one for committing money to Dotel when it will be scarce after the Rios and Peavy acquisitions.

I also don't understand this idea that he has, in your words, "always been" terrible. That's hyperbolic, and stupid. That's on par with the few posters who say Nix has "always battered minor league pitching" or something to that extent. It's simply not true. Pena's been useful in the past and I wouldn't bet against a return to form in Chicago.

Also, the deification of Brandon Allen is pretty ridiculous. He was mediocre in Birmingham and downright bad in Charlotte. He's a first baseman who has serious questions with the bat. Kill me for not being bowled over by a small sample size of games in the PCL, which is a hitter's amusement park.
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  #34  
Old 08-24-2009, 10:54 AM
Dibbs Dibbs is offline
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Originally Posted by Craig Grebeck View Post
He's not old either, and I'm not one for committing money to Dotel when it will be scarce after the Rios and Peavy acquisitions.

I also don't understand this idea that he has, in your words, "always been" terrible. That's hyperbolic, and stupid. That's on par with the few posters who say Nix has "always battered minor league pitching" or something to that extent. It's simply not true. Pena's been useful in the past and I wouldn't bet against a return to form in Chicago.

Also, the deification of Brandon Allen is pretty ridiculous. He was mediocre in Birmingham and downright bad in Charlotte. He's a first baseman who has serious questions with the bat. Kill me for not being bowled over by a small sample size of games in the PCL, which is a hitter's amusement park.
Pena is not old, but he is no spring chicken like I said. He will be 28 next year and hasn't had any great MLB success. He has actually been pretty bad. Not much upside. Do you feel confident when he comes into the game?

Oh, and saying he's had a terrible career is not as stupid as saying look at his ERA over his last twelve innings pitched. Lets go one more inning and now it is 7 ER over 13.2 IP. See, I can play that game too.

I don't know if Allen will turn out to be a good MLB player, but I think Kenny gave up more than he had to.
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  #35  
Old 08-24-2009, 11:01 AM
Craig Grebeck Craig Grebeck is offline
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Originally Posted by Dibbs View Post
Pena is not old, but he is no spring chicken like I said. He will be 28 next year and hasn't had any great MLB success. He has actually been pretty bad. Not much upside. Do you feel confident when he comes into the game?

Oh, and saying he's had a terrible career is not as stupid as saying look at his ERA over his last twelve innings pitched. Lets go one more inning and now it is 7 ER over 13.2 IP. See, I can play that game too.

I don't know if Allen will turn out to be a good MLB player, but I think Kenny gave up more than he had to.
I'm saying he's had some degree of success with the White Sox by using his last twelve innings. His struggles with the Sox came in his first four outings, and since then he's been much, much sharper.

Am I confident when he comes into games? Not a good evaluator. If that's the case, the only good pitcher in our pen is Thornton.
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  #36  
Old 08-24-2009, 11:54 AM
oeo oeo is offline
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Originally Posted by Dibbs View Post
Pena is not old, but he is no spring chicken like I said. He will be 28 next year and hasn't had any great MLB success. He has actually been pretty bad. Not much upside. Do you feel confident when he comes into the game?
28 is still young for a relief pitcher considering most do not hit there stride until their early-30s.

Quote:
I don't know if Allen will turn out to be a good MLB player, but I think Kenny gave up more than he had to.
WSI always says this. Personally, I think we sold high on Allen. Relief pitching is expensive, especially if you want to get a young arm.

Last edited by oeo; 08-24-2009 at 12:00 PM.
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  #37  
Old 08-24-2009, 04:31 PM
BadBobbyJenks BadBobbyJenks is offline
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Can we get over this guy who is no longer with us...
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  #38  
Old 08-24-2009, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BadBobbyJenks View Post
Can we get over this guy who is no longer with us...
Have we ever been able to get over someone who is no longer with the organization?

For the record, I agree with you.
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  #39  
Old 08-24-2009, 05:20 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by BadBobbyJenks View Post
Can we get over this guy who is no longer with us...
And at least wait until his resume has something beyond AAA on it?
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  #40  
Old 08-24-2009, 07:15 PM
knocko94 knocko94 is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
And at least wait until his resume has something beyond AAA on it?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...playerId=30070

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  #41  
Old 08-24-2009, 08:51 PM
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Yeah...those 8 MLB at-bats definitely makes for a strong resume.
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  #42  
Old 08-26-2009, 08:47 PM
Dibbs Dibbs is offline
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28 is still young for a relief pitcher considering most do not hit there stride until their early-30s.
So are you saying we have to wait three more years for this guy to hit his stride? This is a worse trade than I thought.
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  #43  
Old 08-26-2009, 08:48 PM
Craig Grebeck Craig Grebeck is offline
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So are you saying we have to wait three more years for this guy to hit his stride? This is a worse trade than I thought.
You may want to wait a little while before you declare it a bad trade. It's been one month.
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  #44  
Old 08-26-2009, 09:19 PM
Dibbs Dibbs is offline
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Originally Posted by Craig Grebeck View Post
You may want to wait a little while before you declare it a bad trade. It's been one month.
I can have the opinion this was a bad trade and Kenny overpaid. I hope my opinion is wrong, but I doubt it. Only time will tell. So far, so bad.
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  #45  
Old 08-27-2009, 01:02 PM
soxinem1 soxinem1 is offline
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Amazing on how much information the crystal ball gives us........

Especially for a guy who never played with the White Sox.

First off, the trade is not supposed to be good or bad for either team, it is supposed to benefit BOTH.

Second, ask in three years when both of them have time in with their new teams.
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