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  #31  
Old 01-16-2009, 04:18 PM
Craig Grebeck Craig Grebeck is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
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Not concerned about the minor league system. Concerned about Kenny's comments on making the deal in the first place if said reasoning turns out to be faulty.

Lip
But you don't care about the minor league system...

You might as well not even root for a professional baseball organization (or at least claim to be any more than a casual fan) if you don't give a damn about the minors.
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  #32  
Old 01-16-2009, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Grebeck View Post
But you don't care about the minor league system...

You might as well not even root for a professional baseball organization (or at least claim to be any more than a casual fan) if you don't give a damn about the minors.
Now you're telling people how to be a fan?


If you want to dispense wisdom you should probably learn some first.
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  #33  
Old 01-16-2009, 06:25 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Next Craig will be telling me to start memorizing stats like OBP, adjusted defensive numbers and the usual blarney that mathematicians talk about when "analyzing" MLB.

Guess that makes them good fans eh?

LOL

Lip
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  #34  
Old 01-16-2009, 06:44 PM
Craig Grebeck Craig Grebeck is offline
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Now you're telling people how to be a fan?


If you want to dispense wisdom you should probably learn some first.
Please, Daver. I'm not going to give Lip any credit when he tells people he doesn't care about the minor league system and then turns around and asks questions about it. He doesn't have to dismiss those who actually care about the entire organization.
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Next Craig will be telling me to start memorizing stats like OBP, adjusted defensive numbers and the usual blarney that mathematicians talk about when "analyzing" MLB.
OBP is definitely the work of a skilled mathematician. You sniffed that one out Lip.
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  #35  
Old 01-16-2009, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Grebeck View Post
Please, Daver. I'm not going to give Lip any credit when he tells people he doesn't care about the minor league system and then turns around and asks questions about it. He doesn't have to dismiss those who actually care about the entire organization.
He asked a question about a single player that may or may not be on this years 25 man roster. Their are a huge number of baseball fans that have no interest in player development, it does not make them less a fan, just like the fact that you do can imply you are more of a fan, all it does is make you like arrogant fool. If that is how you wish to be percieved so be it.
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  #36  
Old 01-16-2009, 07:02 PM
Dan Mega Dan Mega is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Next Craig will be telling me to start memorizing stats like OBP, adjusted defensive numbers and the usual blarney that mathematicians talk about when "analyzing" MLB.

Guess that makes them good fans eh?

LOL

Lip
To be fair, OBP and OPS are useful. I'm no stathead but I think they are good gauges.
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  #37  
Old 01-16-2009, 07:09 PM
Craig Grebeck Craig Grebeck is offline
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He asked a question about a single player that may or may not be on this years 25 man roster. Their are a huge number of baseball fans that have no interest in player development, it does not make them less a fan, just like the fact that you do can imply you are more of a fan, all it does is make you like arrogant fool. If that is how you wish to be percieved so be it.
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As far as sticking my nose in the "here and now", my opinion frankly is this. Concerning myself with what is going on in the minor leagues would be fine if I were a fan of the Padres, Royals or Brewers.

The Chicago White Sox are in a major market.

In my opinion, their fans shouldn't have to worry nor give a tinker's cuss (I always wanted to use that phrase!) about what John Doe from Podunk, Arkansas is doing is Double AA. The White Sox should be run like the other big market teams...i.e. they get the young stars off the garbage clubs when those teams can't or won't afford to pay to keep them, by trading all these "can't miss kids" whom never seem to cut it with the Sox (especially pitching.) That's the way the big boys play the game...the Sox should be right there with them.
Lip posted this just the other day. I just think this is the epitome of a totally false and simplistic ideology about how baseball teams are run. Basically, he is saying that concerning himself with the minor leagues is a waste of time. Then why even bother asking about Flowers? He's clearly set a precedent for himself, and already told people not to give a "tinker's cuss" about any minor leaguer.

My tone and phrasing were a bit harsh, so I apologize for that.
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  #38  
Old 01-16-2009, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Grebeck View Post
Lip posted this just the other day. I just think this is the epitome of a totally false and simplistic ideology about how baseball teams are run. Basically, he is saying that concerning himself with the minor leagues is a waste of time. Then why even bother asking about Flowers? He's clearly set a precedent for himself, and already told people not to give a "tinker's cuss" about any minor leaguer.

My tone and phrasing were a bit harsh, so I apologize for that.
Only because you interpret it that way, and your view is biased. Approach ten Sox fans in the parking lot before a game and ask them for an opinion on Jordan Danks, I'll bet at least seven of them will say, "don't you mean John?"

His view on how the business of baseball works is probably a lot closer to the truth than yours.
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  #39  
Old 01-16-2009, 07:44 PM
Craig Grebeck Craig Grebeck is offline
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Only because you interpret it that way, and your view is biased. Approach ten Sox fans in the parking lot before a game and ask them for an opinion on Jordan Danks, I'll bet at least seven of them will say, "don't you mean John?"

His view on how the business of baseball works is probably a lot closer to the truth than yours.
Not really, especially considering his opinion of how major market teams work.
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  #40  
Old 01-16-2009, 07:46 PM
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Not really, especially considering his opinion of how major market teams work.
And how do major market teams work, can you explain it to me?
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  #41  
Old 01-16-2009, 07:53 PM
Craig Grebeck Craig Grebeck is offline
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And how do major market teams work, can you explain it to me?
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i.e. they get the young stars off the garbage clubs when those teams can't or won't afford to pay to keep them, by trading all these "can't miss kids" whom never seem to cut it with the Sox (especially pitching.)
I can tell you one thing, that's not how they work. It happens from time to time (Jason Bay to the Red Sox), but if you look at the Yankees and especially the Red Sox (the two biggest fish in the AL market wise), they have made it a priority recently to have good minor league systems not only for the purpose of trading them off to small market teams, but also in order to work them into the lineup.

Successful teams even more than major market teams have made it a priority to develop good teams in the major leagues while maintaining good personnel in the minor leagues.

Last edited by Craig Grebeck; 01-16-2009 at 08:01 PM.
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  #42  
Old 01-16-2009, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Grebeck View Post
I can tell you one thing, that's not how they work. It happens from time to time (Jason Bay to the Red Sox), but if you look at the Yankees and especially the Red Sox (the two biggest fish in the AL market wise), they have made it a priority recently to have good minor league systems not only for the purpose of trading them off to small market teams, but also in order to work them into the lineup.

Successful teams even more than major market teams have made it a priority to develop good teams in the major leagues while maintaining a good personnel in the minor leagues.
Recent is a relative term, who did Josh Beckett pitch for before joining the Red Sox?

And what has Kenny williams done with the talent from the White Sox farm system in recent years? And what percentage of the fan base knew who Chris Young was when he was traded, or Jeremy Reed? (Not to be confused with Jimmy Reed because he stubbornly remains dead.)
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  #43  
Old 01-16-2009, 08:12 PM
Craig Grebeck Craig Grebeck is offline
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Recent is a relative term, who did Josh Beckett pitch for before joining the Red Sox?

And what has Kenny williams done with the talent from the White Sox farm system in recent years? And what percentage of the fan base knew who Chris Young was when he was traded, or Jeremy Reed? (Not to be confused with Jimmy Reed because he stubbornly remains dead.)
Well, Beckett pitched for the Marlins (it should be mentioned who the Red Sox gave up -- none other than the best shortstop in the game!). I understand that.

I know KW hasn't dealt away much, I just wish the cupboard was a little more full. Being good in MLB and being good in the minors aren't mutually exclusive.
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  #44  
Old 01-16-2009, 08:15 PM
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Well, Beckett pitched for the Marlins (it should be mentioned who the Red Sox gave up -- none other than the best shortstop in the game!). I understand that.
The best SS in the game plays third base for the Yankees.
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  #45  
Old 01-16-2009, 09:02 PM
jabrch jabrch is offline
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The best SS in the game plays third base for the Yankees.
How good a SS do you think he'd be after not playing the position for a few years?
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