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  #16  
Old 09-15-2008, 12:05 PM
FedEx227 FedEx227 is offline
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Originally Posted by jabrch View Post
Here's truth #2. Oney Guillen's existence had no significant adverse impact on the White Sox.
Except a completely wasted draft pick that could have been used on a real prospect or a real baseball player with a much better probability to make something of himself.

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Originally Posted by jabrch View Post
Here's truth #3. It is far to early to conclude that KWJR is the same story. He was projected to go in the 8th round regardless. He is not some talentless stiff who was taken in the back end because of his dad.
But he was a talentless stiff that didn't start on his high school team and had an awful college career. Again, he was a wasted draft pick that could have been used on another prospect with a much better probability to make something of himself.
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  #17  
Old 09-15-2008, 12:07 PM
oeo oeo is offline
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Originally Posted by FedEx227 View Post
Except a completely wasted draft pick that could have been used on a real prospect or a real baseball player with a much better probability to make something of himself.



But he was a talentless stiff that didn't start on his high school team and had an awful college career. Again, he was a wasted draft pick that could have been used on another prospect with a much better probability to make something of himself.
This topic is old. We didn't lose anything by drafting him, he didn't hurt any other players' development. The chances that we draft a 'real' prospect that late are very slim.

You can keep whining about it if it makes you feel better, though.
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  #18  
Old 09-15-2008, 12:15 PM
FedEx227 FedEx227 is offline
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Kenny Rogers: 39th Round
John Smoltz: 22nd Round
Trevor Hoffman: 11th Round
Ted Lilly: 23rd Round
Roy Oswalt: 23rd Round
Jake Peavy: 15th Round
Brandon Webb: 8th Round
Andy Pettitte: 20th Round
Albert Pujols: 13th Round
Jeff Kent: 20th Round
Jason Bay: 20th Round
Nate McLouth: 25th Round
Jim Thome: 13th Round
Jose Canseco: 15th Round
Jeff Conine: 58th Round
Orel Hershieser: 17th Round
Mark Grace: 24th Round
Don Mattingly: 19th Round
Ryne Sandberg: 20th Round
Ken Griffey Sr: 29th Round
Raul Ibanez: 36th Round

And you can keep ignoring the fact that there is a much higher probability we find a diamond in the rough (albiet under 5%) than there was of Oney making anything of himself (0.00000000000001%).
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  #19  
Old 09-15-2008, 12:17 PM
oeo oeo is offline
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Keep making your list. Doesn't change the fact that the chances are slim.

What's hilarious about your list is only three are at or around where Oney was drafted.
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  #20  
Old 09-15-2008, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FedEx227 View Post
Kenny Rogers: 39th Round
John Smoltz: 22nd Round
Trevor Hoffman: 11th Round
Ted Lilly: 23rd Round
Roy Oswalt: 23rd Round
Jake Peavy: 15th Round
Brandon Webb: 8th Round
Andy Pettitte: 20th Round
Albert Pujols: 13th Round
Jeff Kent: 20th Round
Jason Bay: 20th Round
Nate McLouth: 25th Round
Jim Thome: 13th Round
Jose Canseco: 15th Round
Jeff Conine: 58th Round
Orel Hershieser: 17th Round
Mark Grace: 24th Round
Don Mattingly: 19th Round
Ryne Sandberg: 20th Round
Ken Griffey Sr: 29th Round
Raul Ibanez: 36th Round

And you can keep ignoring the fact that there is a much higher probability we find a diamond in the rough (albiet under 5%) than there was of Oney making anything of himself (0.00000000000001%).
You've gone back to when Kenny Rogers was drafted and found about 20 baseball players.

Bra-Vo.
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  #21  
Old 09-15-2008, 12:49 PM
FedEx227 FedEx227 is offline
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Wow doublem, you've found another one of my threads and found a way to bash it. You should really find something else to do with your time.

No, I found an ESPN list of players, most of those are very good players, Hall of Famers, etc. I'm sure if you went team-by-team and found starters you'd have even more. And yes Don Mattingly, Ken Griffey Sr. and Orel Hershieser were drafted after Kenny Rogers. doublem classic:

I'm not saying the Sox missed out on a lock of a prospect, I'm saying why waste a draft pick on a 3-month family rental when you have the VERY, VERY slim chance of getting a decent ballplayer out of the pick.

The positives of actually taking the draft seriously outweigh any positives we received by drafting Oney. No?
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  #22  
Old 09-15-2008, 01:04 PM
CashMan CashMan is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
You've gone back to when Kenny Rogers was drafted and found about 20 baseball players.

Bra-Vo.
I would say before you go bashing him, do research. He took time and did some.
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  #23  
Old 09-15-2008, 01:05 PM
alohafri alohafri is offline
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Holy cow! I started this tounge-in-cheek thread to point out the ridiculousness of the Sox putting a message on the scoreboard about a minor leaguer who never even sniffed the AA level. I love how these things take on a life of their own!
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  #24  
Old 09-15-2008, 01:31 PM
FedEx227 FedEx227 is offline
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Originally Posted by CashMan View Post
I would say before you go bashing him, do research. He took time and did some.
I really didn't, haha... someone at ESPN did a list of the best late-round picks. But there are plenty of MLB starters that were taken in later rounds. It would take me forever to go through every single team, but the point is you don't have to get a hall-of-famer in the late rounds, you can just get an everyday reliever, utility man, etc.

When deciding between 2-5% and 0.000000000000001% why not take 2-5%?
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  #25  
Old 09-15-2008, 01:59 PM
sox1970 sox1970 is offline
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Originally Posted by alohafri View Post
Holy cow! I started this tounge-in-cheek thread to point out the ridiculousness of the Sox putting a message on the scoreboard about a minor leaguer who never even sniffed the AA level. I love how these things take on a life of their own!
The message on the board was tongue-in-cheek as well. Joking that he retired with a .333 average at AAA and retired, and was signed Good Luck, White Sox organization and Freddy Garcia. (something like that).
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  #26  
Old 09-15-2008, 03:40 PM
Optipessimism Optipessimism is offline
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Originally Posted by jabrch View Post
That's true in every walk of life. And it isn't just true of being the bosses son. Being a favorite has its priveleges.

And here's the sad truth. Now people can piss and moan all they want - but that doesn't change things. When you get into a position of power, it enables you to do things for your family and friends that you otherwise might not be able to do for them.

Here's truth #2. Oney Guillen's existence had no significant adverse impact on the White Sox.

Here's truth #3. It is far to early to conclude that KWJR is the same story. He was projected to go in the 8th round regardless. He is not some talentless stiff who was taken in the back end because of his dad.

I know people need to hate over everything - and most of those people suck. So let them hate. I'd much rather spend my energy celebrating a team that is 1.5 games up with a few weeks left to go, and has a very bright looking present/future.
I agree with this, and would add that if there is anything to bitch about in this year's draft - and there actually isn't much considering this year the Sox did what a Major League organization is supposed to do in the draft - then the bitching should start and end with the selection of Brent Morel in the third round while Tim Melville was available. During the actual draft it sucked to learn that the Sox picked KW Jr. while passing on Jordan Danks through yet another round, but since we got Jordan and he's signed that doesn't matter anymore. KW Jr. is an actual prospect that was on the boards of other teams a bit later than where he was taken. Sure he was a reach, but that doesn't exactly matter right now.

As far as Oney Guillen, who ****ing cares? You don't look for superstars in the 35th round of the draft, and as far as irrelevant lists of superstars who have come from that spot or later, players that are passed up by 30 different organizations over 35 times each are obviously in such dire need of improvement that their signings mean basically nothing. Each team has a list of players they are interested in taking and once all those players are off the board then the only thing left to do is fill minor league rosters with catch and throw guys. If you need a back-up IF who is only going to amass 143 AB's over two years combined, why not take the manager's son instead of Joe Schmoe from Buttcrack University who sucks just as bad? I mean come on. This whole argument is ridiculous.
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  #27  
Old 09-15-2008, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alohafri View Post
Holy cow! I started this tounge-in-cheek thread to point out the ridiculousness of the Sox putting a message on the scoreboard about a minor leaguer who never even sniffed the AA level. I love how these things take on a life of their own!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sox1970 View Post
The message on the board was tongue-in-cheek as well. Joking that he retired with a .333 average at AAA and retired, and was signed Good Luck, White Sox organization and Freddy Garcia. (something like that).
It was co-signed by his cousin Freddy Garcia. I thought it was a nice touch.

By the way, he did retire from Charlotte with a .333 BA. He was one for three in his only game with The Knights. It was double and he scored.
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  #28  
Old 09-15-2008, 03:53 PM
Optipessimism Optipessimism is offline
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Originally Posted by FedEx227 View Post
Wow doublem, you've found another one of my threads and found a way to bash it. You should really find something else to do with your time.

No, I found an ESPN list of players, most of those are very good players, Hall of Famers, etc. I'm sure if you went team-by-team and found starters you'd have even more. And yes Don Mattingly, Ken Griffey Sr. and Orel Hershieser were drafted after Kenny Rogers. doublem classic:

I'm not saying the Sox missed out on a lock of a prospect, I'm saying why waste a draft pick on a 3-month family rental when you have the VERY, VERY slim chance of getting a decent ballplayer out of the pick.

The positives of actually taking the draft seriously outweigh any positives we received by drafting Oney. No?
The Sox didn't waste anything. The guys they wanted and thought they could sign were taken. Then the guys that they wanted but didn't think they could sign were taken. Then the guys that they didn't really care about but thought maybe, if they sign, have some small chance of doing something were taken. And then everyone they wanted or might have wanted was taken, so they started filling out rosters and took Oney as a result.

Most teams don't even use the whole draft. With international free agency they are much more concerned with finding talent that way as opposed to long shots in the 30th-50th rounds of the draft who, because of their status, do not even play anyway. It doesn't matter if the Sox took the second coming of Albert Pujols in the 35th round, because the second coming of Albert Pujols would have to earn his playing time on the bench of Great Falls, stick with it, dedicate himself, hope he didn't get cut, and then try to impress the coaching staff during minor league camp in order to beat out a player who has the ceiling of a minor league journeyman utility player.
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  #29  
Old 09-15-2008, 04:36 PM
jabrch jabrch is offline
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Originally Posted by oeo View Post
This topic is old. We didn't lose anything by drafting him, he didn't hurt any other players' development. The chances that we draft a 'real' prospect that late are very slim.

You can keep whining about it if it makes you feel better, though.
And because we stopped drafting before the end of the draft, we were out of prospects on our list of any value. We could have continued to draft anyone we wanted. But let's not let the facts get in the way of a good rant. We took 10 guys after Oney - none who have any potential for us.



I'll always remember this great moment in Oney's career.
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Last edited by jabrch; 09-15-2008 at 04:44 PM.
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  #30  
Old 09-15-2008, 04:52 PM
Chilli Palmer Chilli Palmer is offline
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You really aren't willing to wait a bit to see what he can do when he is healthy and has a few years in the minors?
No.
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