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  #31  
Old 09-09-2007, 01:37 AM
Britt Burns Britt Burns is offline
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I don't care if borass is his agent...if he is available whenever the sox pick, I say vote for Pedro. a lefy-hitting corner infielder who draws comaprisons to Pujols? Ummm, yes please.
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  #32  
Old 09-09-2007, 01:44 AM
UserNameBlank UserNameBlank is offline
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Originally Posted by Britt Burns View Post
I don't care if borass is his agent...if he is available whenever the sox pick, I say vote for Pedro. a lefy-hitting corner infielder who draws comaprisons to Pujols? Ummm, yes please.
I hate that movie but if the Sox do end up with #1 overall that would be a great campaign to start.
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  #33  
Old 09-09-2007, 03:06 AM
Man Soo Lee Man Soo Lee is offline
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There are a lot more than you think.

I'm obviously not going to go through the league or anything, but just on our team the following players made their MLB debut before turning 22: Gavin Floyd, Ryan Sweeney, AJ Pierznski, Paul Konerko, Boone Logan, Jon Garland, Mark Buehrle, Jim Thome, Jermaine Dye, and Joe Crede. That's 1/4 of our 40 man roster.
What does the age at MLB debut prove? If the guy is out of options, he has to stick in the majors at 21. Aside from Buehrle and Garland (who only made 5 more minor league starts), every other guy on this list spent significant time in the minors after making his debut.
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  #34  
Old 09-09-2007, 03:10 AM
jabrch jabrch is offline
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This is true, but I don't think moving a guy to a position he's probably not entirely comfortable at, would change that. Sure, he'd still be putting up the offensive numbers, but if he has little-to-no range/is just plain bad defensively, what's the point? Just so we can say we drafted a good offensive SS?
But that's not the case here. From all I read, Alvarez is a natural SS who is playing 3B because his team has an even better SS. I haven't seen either of them play - which is why I am asking the question. I agree - you don't want him there if he can't play it to at least an MLB average level defensively - we'd be better off with him at 3B in that case.
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  #35  
Old 09-09-2007, 03:12 AM
jabrch jabrch is offline
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Originally Posted by Britt Burns View Post
I don't care if borass is his agent...if he is available whenever the sox pick, I say vote for Pedro. a lefy-hitting corner infielder who draws comaprisons to Pujols? Ummm, yes please.
There are other options also. Smoak is reported to look very good also. He's a 1B, but he looks like a great hitter from what I am reading.

Has anyone actually seen these kids, or are we all just going off of scouting reports?
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  #36  
Old 09-09-2007, 03:15 AM
jabrch jabrch is offline
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Originally Posted by Man Soo Lee View Post
What does the age at MLB debut prove? If the guy is out of options, he has to stick in the majors at 21. Aside from Buehrle and Garland (who only made 5 more minor league starts), every other guy on this list spent significant time in the minors after making his debut.
Exactly - I'm glad management won't burn a 40 man roster spot and 8mm for a guy who you may have to rush before they are ready. Let's see what's there when we pick, and what management does. My guess is we go for a college hitter and give him an MLB contract. In that case, it is assumed he'd be ready inside of three years, and the MLB contract would allow us to spread out the bonus money over more time than just a standard contract would.
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  #37  
Old 09-09-2007, 07:14 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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If Pedro Alvarez is the best player on the board when the Sox draft, they should draft him and make sure they sign him. Obviously they don't want to give in to every demand, but it's a bigger risk to pass on that kind of talent than to put big dollars into signing it.

The last time the Sox were drafting this high, they got McDowell, Ventura, Thomas and Fernandez. With a top 5 pick, I want another Thomas, but I'd settle for another McDowell, Ventura or Fernandez. Can we bring back Larry Himes to make sure we draft the right guy?
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  #38  
Old 09-09-2007, 10:43 AM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
If Pedro Alvarez is the best player on the board when the Sox draft, they should draft him and make sure they sign him. Obviously they don't want to give in to every demand, but it's a bigger risk to pass on that kind of talent than to put big dollars into signing it.

The last time the Sox were drafting this high, they got McDowell, Ventura, Thomas and Fernandez. With a top 5 pick, I want another Thomas, but I'd settle for another McDowell, Ventura or Fernandez. Can we bring back Larry Himes to make sure we draft the right guy?
From what I've read, Himes string of strong draft picks ended when he became the Cubbies GM.

IIRC in Himes last year with the Cubbies they (with Goldis in charge) drafted 43 pitchers and Goldis was certain that they'd harvested a boatload of MLB arms. Of that group I believe only Kyle Farnsworth made it to MLB. In '93 they passed on Billy Wagner and drafted Brooks Kieschnick and Steve Rain.
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Last edited by DrCrawdad; 09-09-2007 at 10:56 AM.
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  #39  
Old 09-09-2007, 12:58 PM
ilsox7 ilsox7 is offline
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Originally Posted by Man Soo Lee View Post
What does the age at MLB debut prove? If the guy is out of options, he has to stick in the majors at 21. Aside from Buehrle and Garland (who only made 5 more minor league starts), every other guy on this list spent significant time in the minors after making his debut.
Well said. I should have been more specific in my question, but this is exactly what I meant.
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  #40  
Old 09-10-2007, 12:31 AM
UserNameBlank UserNameBlank is offline
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Originally Posted by Man Soo Lee View Post
What does the age at MLB debut prove? If the guy is out of options, he has to stick in the majors at 21. Aside from Buehrle and Garland (who only made 5 more minor league starts), every other guy on this list spent significant time in the minors after making his debut.
A few points here:

1. The list I made was a response to the comment that there aren't many 21 year olds in baseball.

2. We are talking about giving contracts to players who at the time of the draft would be deemed more "special" than the talent I named were when they were drafted.

3. If a pretty good to great prospect makes his MLB debut then the organization is basically telling him that he is good enough to at least play and learn at that level. If a team has the luxury of letting a certain player develop further in the minor leagues then great for them. Also playoff contention/veteran presence/veteran contract situations play into this as well, so a team that has a minor league player ready to contribute may not be used in a regular starting situation because of veteran depth. It doesn't make sense to say that every player who went back down to the minor leagues necessarily had to go back to the minor leagues to work on something.

4. We're not talking about some sweeping general rule that would say every single player should be expected to contribute regularly at the MLB level within the span of three years. We're talking about giving a Major League contract to one minor league player. Have the Sox ever done that? If the Sox draft in the top three, take the BAP, and give their draft pick a Major League contract, wouldn't that be the first time in Sox modern era history that that happened?

5. A spot on the 40-man can be "wasted" so to speak. We're "wasting" roster spots right now; too many in fact and that is why our team is even in the consideration for top overall pick to begin with. Would anyone really cry if the Sox dropped someone like Paulino Reynoso from the 40-man to make room for what would be the Sox' highest drafted pick since 1977 when they drafted Harold Baines #1 overall? The last time the Sox drafted in the top five they took Alex Fernandez (#4) and Jack McDowell (#5). Is this really going to make anyone upset to replace a waste-of-space player like Reynoso with a hell of a prospect?

6. Anyone who looks at whether or not a player will be ready to contribute at the MLB level three years after being drafted as a major obstacle is a worry wart. And before anyone gets offended I don't mean that as an insult; that is just the truth. If a player can get through three productive years at the minor league level without sustaining major injury you are lucky as it is, especially if that player is a pitcher. You deal with that bridge when you come to it and you do not under any circumstances use "what if he's not ready in three years?" as an excuse to pass on the BAP in the draft. Any organization that does that is ass backwards and it's GM will inevitably get fired and it's ownership will be heavily criticisized by every casual or diehard fan that is aware of it.

7. All of the arguments against giving a major league contract to the BAP in next year's draft just seem to be for the sake of argument and nothing more. I can see absolutely no reason why anyone would be thinking about all these small little "what if's," like "what if we spend money on a pick that bombs?" or "what if this player isn't good enough in three years?" while ignoring the much, much larger picture, which says this:

-Our MLB team sucks right now.
-Our MLB team is an aged, veteran core and we don't have the amount of youth we need to consistently pencil ourselves in as contenders.
-We have some talent at the minor league level but that talent is pretty much just Egbert, Gio and Broadway who are ready now. Everyone else is in A ball or Rookie ball and very raw and very far away.
-We need more talented young players at every level from A ball to the Major League team.
-We only have one young player in our entire organization right now who is capable of anchoring our offense in the future, and his name is Fields. The closest to him is Chris Carter who is in ****ing Kannapolis.
-We have a couple young SP who look promising but the only guy we have above Rookie ball who looks like he could have ace stuff is DLS, and he's only had a couple of starts in High A Winston-Salem.

I think this is a pretty easy decision to make and not something that anyone really needs to argue over. We're going to draft top three for the first time in 31 years next June and we had better take the BAP and give him the bonus and that major league contract he's looking for. If Borass is his agent, now is not the time to act like a stubborn baby and refuse to talk. Now is the time to act like a Major League, large market organization that is serious about finding, signing, and developing the best young players it can for it's future.
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