White Sox Interactive Forums
Sox Clubhouse
 Soxogram: 
Congratulations on winning the Sporting News ROTY award, Jose!

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Sox Clubhouse
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-13-2013, 12:23 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
The Blind Squirrel that finally found an acorn.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nw Side
Posts: 7,245
Default Let's argue about Jose Quintana again!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post


Pretty much every team has questions at the back end of their rotation
Im saying the 3,4 and 5. And Sox 2 is really a 4.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-13-2013, 12:24 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Washington & Talman
Posts: 4,227
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Im saying the 3,4 and 5. And Sox 2 is really a 4.
Not this **** again.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoota
I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-13-2013, 12:25 PM
doublem23's Avatar
doublem23 doublem23 is offline
MMXXIII
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Roscoe Village
Posts: 54,207
Blog Entries: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Im saying the 3,4 and 5. And Sox 2 is really a 4.
This is a tired argument made by people who can't admit that the Sox might be better at player development than they think. Quintana was the #6 SP in the ENTIRE AMERICAN LEAGUE last season. Yes, that is probably a bit over his head, but his talent after 400 innings in the Majors is undeniable. To call him at #4 pitcher is laughably, almost trollishly, pessimistic. Please tell me what teams are out there who wouldn't find a spot at the top of their rotation for a guy with 33 starts, 200 IP, and a 3.50 ERA. It's not a very long list.

If Quintana was on any other team in the league, people would be COVETING him. We'd be desperate to acquire a 24-year-old pitcher with a 118 ERA+ in his first two seasons in the Majors. But since he's on the Sox, eh, maybe he's a back-end of the rotation kind of guy. :eyeroll:
__________________

Last edited by doublem23; 12-13-2013 at 12:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-13-2013, 12:27 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Washington & Talman
Posts: 4,227
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
You're telling me the #6 pitcher in the American League last year is a #4 starter? Might want to re-check that math.
Didn't you know there are 90-120 better starting pitchers than Quintana?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-13-2013, 12:33 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
The Blind Squirrel that finally found an acorn.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nw Side
Posts: 7,245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
This is a tired argument made by people who can't admit that the Sox might be better at player development than they think. Quintana was the #6 SP in the ENTIRE AMERICAN LEAGUE last season. Yes, that is probably a bit over his head, but his talent after 400 innings in the Majors is undeniable. To call him at #4 pitcher is laughably, almost trollishly, pessimistic. Please tell me what teams are out there who wouldn't find a spot at the top of their rotation for a guy with 33 starts, 200 IP, and a 3.50 ERA. It's not a very long list.

If Quintana was on any other team in the league, people would be COVETING him. We'd be desperate to acquire a 24-year-old pitcher with a 118 ERA+ in his first two seasons in the Majors. But since he's on the Sox, eh, maybe he's a back-end of the rotation kind of guy. :eyeroll:
My point wasnt Quintana, maybe he is a 3. My point was and is that its a major "if" for this team to be able to compete with their 3,4 and 5.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-13-2013, 12:40 PM
blandman blandman is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
This is a tired argument made by people who can't admit that the Sox might be better at player development than they think. Quintana was the #6 SP in the ENTIRE AMERICAN LEAGUE last season. Yes, that is probably a bit over his head, but his talent after 400 innings in the Majors is undeniable. To call him at #4 pitcher is laughably, almost trollishly, pessimistic. Please tell me what teams are out there who wouldn't find a spot at the top of their rotation for a guy with 33 starts, 200 IP, and a 3.50 ERA. It's not a very long list.
Judging ability off of production without care for anything else is undeniably optimistic. Almost trollish. Production does not equal talent. Jim Parque produced. He had very little talent.

Quintana's a 3-4 who's production has exceeded that. It may continue for many years, but it probably won't unless he makes serious strides.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-13-2013, 12:46 PM
asindc's Avatar
asindc asindc is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Washington, DC area
Posts: 7,569
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Judging ability off of production without care for anything else is undeniably optimistic. Almost trollish. Production does not equal talent. Jim Parque produced. He had very little talent.

Quintana's a 3-4 who's production has exceeded that. It may continue for many years, but it probably won't unless he makes serious strides.
Wrong. He is a 2-3 until he proves he is not. What is, is. What will be, we'll see.
__________________
"I have the ultimate respect for White Sox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Red Sox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country." Jim Caple, ESPN (January 12, 2011)


"We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the (bleeding) obvious is the first duty of intelligent men." George Orwell
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-13-2013, 12:47 PM
blandman blandman is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by asindc View Post
Wrong. He is a 2-3 until he proves he is not. What is, is. What will be, we'll see.
Wrong, he's a 3-4 until he proves he can throw a pitch worthy of a higher status.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-13-2013, 12:52 PM
asindc's Avatar
asindc asindc is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Washington, DC area
Posts: 7,569
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Wrong, he's a 3-4 until he proves he can throw a pitch worthy of a higher status.
Wrong, as long as he gets batters out throwing what he is throwing, it doesn't matter what the "status" of his pitches are. Theory is theory. Results are results.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-13-2013, 12:52 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Washington & Talman
Posts: 4,227
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Wrong, he's a 3-4 until he proves he can throw a pitch worthy of a higher status.
You've been provided with evidence to the contrary over and over for the last month. At this point, you're covering your ears and screaming to avoid reality.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-13-2013, 07:05 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gonzales LA
Posts: 12,933
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Wrong, he's a 3-4 until he proves he can throw a pitch worthy of a higher status.
Based on what?


A Loony piece was written on Quintana by a Mariners' blog that basically said that because Quintana, like Fister, was never a highly touted prospect, he therefore has low value and the Sox should be willing to trade him for a pittance, as the Ms did when they traded Fister for, essentially, Casper Wells.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-13-2013, 12:50 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Washington & Talman
Posts: 4,227
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Judging ability off of production without care for anything else is undeniably optimistic. Almost trollish. Production does not equal talent. Jim Parque produced. He had very little talent.

Quintana's a 3-4 who's production has exceeded that. It may continue for many years, but it probably won't unless he makes serious strides.
I just can't get my head around the ridiculousness of your logic. Production doesn't matter. What does that even mean?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-13-2013, 12:51 PM
doublem23's Avatar
doublem23 doublem23 is offline
MMXXIII
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Roscoe Village
Posts: 54,207
Blog Entries: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Judging ability off of production without care for anything else is undeniably optimistic. Almost trollish. Production does not equal talent. Jim Parque produced. He had very little talent.

Quintana's a 3-4 who's production has exceeded that. It may continue for many years, but it probably won't unless he makes serious strides.
That's a bunch of horse****, this is a game based on production. Nobody gets a medal for "Most Perceived Talent." Otherwise Corey Patterson, Brian Anderson, and a slew of other big time busts would be heading towards Cooperstown.

Keeping digging that hole.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-13-2013, 04:56 PM
cards press box cards press box is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,876
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
That's a bunch of horse****, this is a game based on production. Nobody gets a medal for "Most Perceived Talent."
And that, to me, is one of the greatest things about baseball. Until a prospect starts to play, it is impossible to say what he will be become.

Mark Buehrle was a 38th round pick, for crying out loud! But he was such a great competitor and such a great craftsman that he became a top tier pitcher who has thrown a no-hitter and a perfect game, has started and won an All-Star game and who was a stalwart starting pitcher for a World Champion.

Not bad for a 38th round pick. And not bad scouting and development from the White Sox, either.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-14-2013, 12:46 AM
doublem23's Avatar
doublem23 doublem23 is offline
MMXXIII
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Roscoe Village
Posts: 54,207
Blog Entries: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cards press box View Post
And that, to me, is one of the greatest things about baseball. Until a prospect starts to play, it is impossible to say what he will be become.

Mark Buehrle was a 38th round pick, for crying out loud! But he was such a great competitor and such a great craftsman that he became a top tier pitcher who has thrown a no-hitter and a perfect game, has started and won an All-Star game and who was a stalwart starting pitcher for a World Champion.

Not bad for a 38th round pick. And not bad scouting and development from the White Sox, either.
Yes, I see munch's point if we were talking about a minor league player, you can't just look at stats; guys are always working on mechanical issues, developing pitches, working on their stance, etc. So you can't say a guy who dominates at AA is destined to dominate in the Majors. It's just that way it is. But in the Majors, performance counts. And Quintana has been exceptionally good. That trumps whatever nonsense scouting there may be out there.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:47 PM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.