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  #1  
Old 06-16-2013, 04:55 PM
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Brian26 Brian26 is offline
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Default Jeff Manto

Does Manto deserve any of the blame in this mess?

How does he compare to Walker?
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  #2  
Old 06-16-2013, 05:05 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Manto and Walker before him are not the problem, you can't teach stupid players how to hit. Ted Williams couldn't fix our guys.
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Old 06-16-2013, 05:36 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Manto and Walker before him are not the problem, you can't teach stupid players how to hit. Ted Williams couldn't fix our guys.
Not until his head thaws, anyway.
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Old 06-16-2013, 05:43 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Since it's through 2 coaches that we can't hit and so many players take poor approaches, I tend to think it's the players and the organizational philosophy/teaching.
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Old 06-16-2013, 06:05 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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Since it's through 2 coaches that we can't hit and so many players take poor approaches, I tend to think it's the players and the organizational philosophy/teaching.
This. People forget that these problems existed long before Walker and Manto were Sox coaches. Von Joshua and Gary Ward were fired within two years of each other.
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  #6  
Old 06-16-2013, 06:15 PM
SOXSINCE'70 SOXSINCE'70 is offline
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Von Joshua and Gary Ward were fired within two years of each other.
Don't forget "Papa Jack",Ron Jackson.
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  #7  
Old 06-16-2013, 06:14 PM
SOXSINCE'70 SOXSINCE'70 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Ted Williams couldn't fix our guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKMeibalane View Post
Not until his head thaws, anyway.

Outside of the local nine's inablilty to play the game of baseball,this is the biggest laugh I've had all year.
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  #8  
Old 06-16-2013, 05:06 PM
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You cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
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  #9  
Old 06-16-2013, 05:22 PM
Crestani Crestani is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
Does Manto deserve any of the blame in this mess?

How does he compare to Walker?

What is really funny, (not really) is the crap Walker took and Manto has skated on this board all year...!!!
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  #10  
Old 06-16-2013, 07:24 PM
gobears1987 gobears1987 is offline
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All of the people who hated on Walker were just looking for a scapegoat. Walker was never the problem. The players are and always have been the issue. Well that and the GM who brought them in.
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  #11  
Old 06-16-2013, 08:18 PM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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I've never seen Sox hitters look worse. If Manto isn't hurting, he sure isn't helping. His job is to help. He needs to go.
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  #12  
Old 06-16-2013, 09:05 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
I've never seen Sox hitters look worse. If Manto isn't hurting, he sure isn't helping. His job is to help. He needs to go.
The problem goes way beyond Manto and went beyond Walker. This is an organizational problem that is systemic at every level, we don't value walks, hitting the other way, etc. If you can hit long homeruns, you will get promoted, it doesn't matter if you can't hit anything but a high 80s fastball down the middle.
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Old 06-16-2013, 10:13 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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5187:

Well said.

Remember the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink..."

The problem is the hitters and their eight hundred foot, seven run home run philosophy which seems to be the ONLY type of hitter Kenny and crew seem to like and / or get.

It's home run or nothing, station to station softball, the bane of this organization since 2000 with the notable exception of 2005 when they had balance....home run hitting AND speed AND guys who worked counts AND guys who went the other way.

Haven't had it before or since.

Lip
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  #14  
Old 06-17-2013, 05:03 AM
Jurr Jurr is offline
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Yup, which is why I always HATED the Thome signing.

Is Thome a bad guy? Nope.
Is he a terrible baseball player? Absolutely not.

What he signified, though, was Kenny Williams' refusal to stick to a philosophy change.
I truly believe that NOT having a ton of power in the lineup makes you sharper as a team. You're looking to sacrifice. You're looking to execute a hit and run, because the three run homer isn't guaranteed.

Having guys like Thome and Dunn slow you down. You turn the brain volume down and stand at first or second base, hoping that they don't pull another ball right into the shift.

It's terrible baseball.
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  #15  
Old 06-17-2013, 09:17 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
The problem goes way beyond Manto and went beyond Walker. This is an organizational problem that is systemic at every level, we don't value walks, hitting the other way, etc. If you can hit long homeruns, you will get promoted, it doesn't matter if you can't hit anything but a high 80s fastball down the middle.
Is it though? Walk's offense in Atlanta is basically a good version of the White Sox; low BA, low OBP, leads the NL in HR and K. He was still hitting coach for a lot of the guys on this roster, so who know how long his influence takes to wear off.

At any rate, Walk needed to be fired and it's looking like Manto needs to go, too. I agree with the overall point that maybe hitting coaches get too much credit when a team's good and too much blame when they're bad, and that it's ultimately on the players to perform, but clearly whatever these guys are doing, their players are not/have not responded. Time to try something new.
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