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  #1  
Old 11-17-2012, 10:35 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Default Bill James / Paul Konerko

I'll let those who more closely follow stats explain this one to me. Bill James in his latest book, according to Phil Rogers, says Konerko is the worst defensive first baseman in baseball having cost the Sox 11 runs.

Now I only know what I see and that's the fact that Paul's glove consistently saves runs by his digging out bad throws particularly from Ramirez.

I do agree with James' other contention, that Konerko is the slowest runner in MLB over the last 10 seasons.

Lip
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  #2  
Old 11-17-2012, 10:51 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Zero range?
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  #3  
Old 11-17-2012, 10:55 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Konerko has minimal range these days and it is possible that after his concussion this year his defense suffered some but there is no way he is the worst defensive first baseman in baseball. He saves the Sox a ton of runs by digging balls out of the dirt.

I know that there are some in the sabermetric community that believe you don't have to watch a baseball game (Billy Beane was once quoted as saying he would be a better GM if he never watched a game) but defense is really one of those things where you need to watch a guy every day to get a sense of how bad or how good he is. The more you watch Konerko the more you appreciate his defense.
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:01 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
Konerko has minimal range these days and it is possible that after his concussion this year his defense suffered some but there is no way he is the worst defensive first baseman in baseball. He saves the Sox a ton of runs by digging balls out of the dirt.

I know that there are some in the sabermetric community that believe you don't have to watch a baseball game (Billy Beane was once quoted as saying he would be a better GM if he never watched a game) but defense is really one of those things where you need to watch a guy every day to get a sense of how bad or how good he is. The more you watch Konerko the more you appreciate his defense.
I think a lot of people in the sabermetric community will tell you that defensive stats are rather flawed at this point.
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  #5  
Old 11-18-2012, 08:57 AM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
I think a lot of people in the sabermetric community will tell you that defensive stats are rather flawed at this point.
They're not flawed, they're almost totally unreliable.
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  #6  
Old 11-18-2012, 09:09 AM
SephClone89 SephClone89 is online now
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They're not flawed, they're almost totally unreliable.
They're a work in progress. Anything is an improvement over errors/fielding percentage.
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  #7  
Old 11-18-2012, 09:56 AM
Irishsox1 Irishsox1 is offline
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Paulie's attributes on the field and in the dugout outweigh his faults....by a lot.
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  #8  
Old 11-18-2012, 02:54 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by SephClone89 View Post
They're a work in progress. Anything is an improvement over errors/fielding percentage.
Not necessarily. At least with errors and fielding percentage, fans know they don't attempt to tell you much. If they don't, they are corrected with little debate. The idea that statisticians are contriving stats so they can quantify the unquantifiable, and that some people will defend them is not an improvement.
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  #9  
Old 11-21-2012, 02:17 AM
pudge pudge is offline
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They're a work in progress. Anything is an improvement over errors/fielding percentage.
They're not a work in progress, they're total crap. Why does defense need a number? Why does "range" need a number? I love baseball stats as much as the next guy, but the direction saber and "statheads" have gone is just insanity. I'm all for modern technology moving us forward, but there are times when it's overkill and not needed.
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  #10  
Old 11-17-2012, 11:03 PM
shingo10 shingo10 is online now
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I call bull**** on this one. This is something great for talk radio hosts but I can't for the life of me think of when Konerko has cost us big time over there. Sure he has a few errors now and then but if they are saying his range is what cost them then I disagree.

Like someone mentioned he has bailed out Alexi on numerous occasions and probably saved us more runs than he's cost us.
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  #11  
Old 11-17-2012, 11:21 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
I do agree with James' other contention, that Konerko is the slowest runner in MLB over the last 10 seasons.

Lip
His pet turtle once escaped from its terrarium. Paulie chased it, but it got away.


He is.......the Slowest Man in the World. He doesn't run much, but when he does, a drunk with a walker outpaces him.
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:27 PM
PaleHoser PaleHoser is offline
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His pet turtle once escaped from its terrarium. Paulie chased it, but it got away.


He is.......the Slowest Man in the World. He doesn't run much, but when he does, a drunk with a walker outpaces him.
Disagree. Both of the older Molina brothers are timed in the 60 yard dash using a calendar. They both make Paulie look like a speed merchant in comparison.
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  #13  
Old 11-18-2012, 12:09 AM
aryzner aryzner is offline
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Has Bill James ever seen Prince Fielder play first base?
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  #14  
Old 11-18-2012, 12:21 AM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Has Bill James ever seen Prince Fielder play first base?
It's not like it's his personal opinion, I'm sure it's based on whatever metrics he uses (and defensive metrics are rather flawed, IMHO).
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  #15  
Old 11-18-2012, 12:26 AM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Yes, Konerko digs a lot of balls out of the dirt, but so do most first basemen. He has very little range.

What I've never understood about Konerko's defense is that he never stretches on close plays. I've come to believe that his back must hurt him. That definitely costs us some outs over the long haul.
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