De Aza

[Lillian]

Have you guys noticed De Aza coming on at Charlotte?

He has a lot of tools, and could ultimately replace Pierre in LF and leadoff.

[doublem23]

The Marlins are notorious for being excellent in scouting and player development. If a guy can't stick with them while cheap, it's probably because he sucks.

[Lillian]

Originally Posted by doublem23

The Marlins are notorious for being excellent in scouting and player development. If a guy can't stick with them while cheap, it's probably because he sucks.

Perhaps you're right about the Marlins, although "notorious" is the wrong word. "Famous" would be more appropriate.
Nevertheless, I don't believe that anything De Aza has done in his career suggests that "he sucks".

[tm1119]

Ehh hes nothing more than a career UTL player. Think Willie Harris without the ability to play the infield. Could be a useful bench player though.

[Lillian]

Originally Posted by tm1119

Ehh hes nothing more than a career UTL player. Think Willie Harris without the ability to play the infield. Could be a useful bench player though.

I wouldn't be quite so hasty as to label a 26 year old, who missed all of 2008 because of injuries, "nothing more than a "utility player".
The comparison to Willie Harris is very debatable. De Aza has better defensive skills, and some pop, in addition to being a pretty good offensive player.
Have you actually looked at his Minor League stats?
I thought that he looked very impressive, when I saw him in Spring Training this year.

[TheVulture]

Originally Posted by doublem23

The Marlins are notorious for being excellent in scouting and player development. If a guy can't stick with them while cheap, it's probably because he sucks.

He won the starting CF job with the Marlins out of spring training in both 2007 and 2008 but lost out on injuries and missed the bulk of those seasons. If the Marlins are excellent in scouting how did he win the job twice at the age of 22 and 23 if he sucks? They couldn't send him to the minors as he had already been outrighted. They either had to DFA him or he would have become a free agent, so they actually did the only thing they could have done to keep him other than keep him on the ML roster. Just because he still needed to be in the minors at 24 after basically missing two full season doesn't mean he sucks.

Supposedly, his defense and baserunning are outstanding. I don't know if he's good enough to be considered for the ML team at any point, but I don't think it's right to dismiss him just because the Marlins DFA'd him.

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by TheVulture

He won the starting CF job with the Marlins out of spring training in both 2007 and 2008 but lost out on injuries and missed the bulk of those seasons. If the Marlins are excellent in scouting how did he win the job twice at the age of 22 and 23 if he sucks? They couldn't send him to the minors as he had already been outrighted. They either had to DFA him or he would have become a free agent, so they actually did the only thing they could have done to keep him other than keep him on the ML roster. Just because he still needed to be in the minors at 24 after basically missing two full season doesn't mean he sucks.

Supposedly, his defense and baserunning are outstanding. I don't know if he's good enough to be considered for the ML team at any point, but I don't think it's right to dismiss him just because the Marlins DFA'd him.

Meh, I will defer to the Marlins scouting department, who are excellent in this matter. If De Aza was worth keeping around, they would have found a way. The last time people got all excited about a "toolsy" Marlins castoff was Julio Ramirez, and I think we remember how that disaster turned out.

[DirtySox]

Originally Posted by doublem23

Meh, I will defer to the Marlins scouting department, who are excellent in this matter. If De Aza was worth keeping around, they would have found a way. The last time people got all excited about a "toolsy" Marlins castoff was Julio Ramirez, and I think we remember how that disaster turned out.

Indeed. De Aza isn't anything spectacular. He isn't supplanting anyone at this point. I would agree that 4th outfielder is his ceiling.

[Lillian]

For all the naysayers in this thread: Please check out De Aza's stats at Charlotte.

Last night he went 5 for 6 with a couple of doubles.
He's hitting .476 with a .532 OBP, over his last 10 games.
On the season he's now hitting .320 with a .403 OBP.
He's 9 for 9 in stolen bases, and already has 3 more extra base hits than Pierre, in just 122 at bats, which is less than half as many at bats as our pathetic current lead off hitter.
De Aza has also driven in 3 more runs than Pierre, and has his slugging % up to .431.

I don't think that his recent play is a total fluke. Just look at his stats from last year at AAA. I say he can't be worse than Pierre.
Bring him up, and make Pierre a pinch runner.

[delben91]

Originally Posted by Lillian

Have you guys noticed De Aza coming on at Charlotte?

He has a lot of tools, and could ultimately replace Pierre in LF and leadoff.

He's no Brad Eldred.

[rdivaldi]

Originally Posted by delben91

he's no brad eldred.

+1

[Lillian]

Originally Posted by delben91

He's no Brad Eldred.

So you guys remember.

I admit, I thought Eldred might have helped, at some point.

However, De Aza is a completely different kind of player. Eldred was a big slugger, who struck out a lot. This guy is a "toolsy" player who can do a lot of things well.

Do you actually like Pierre's game?
I really don't like his style of offense. He's nothing more than a base runner, and he doesn't get on enough to exercise those skills.

I'd like to have someone who can at least hit a sacrifice fly with a runner on third, and less than two out. All he seems capable of hitting is a "seeing eye" single, or a Texas Leaguer.

Remember, he's only guaranteed to bat lead off once per game. After that, he's pretty useless. It's fine in the N.L., where the lead off guy usually comes to bat with no one on base, after the weak #8 hitter and the pitcher. In the A.L., the lead off hitter can expect to have a lot more chances to move runners up, or drive them in, and he just doesn't seem very capable of that, unless he sacrifice bunts.

He sure wasn't worth the money he got in that big contract, and I doubt he'll be worth what he's costing the Sox, even after what the Dodgers are kicking in.

[KMcMahon817]

Originally Posted by Lillian

So you guys remember.

I admit, I thought Eldred might have helped, at some point.

However, De Aza is a completely different kind of player. Eldred was a big slugger, who struck out a lot. This guy is a "toolsy" player who can do a lot of things well.

Do you actually like Pierre's game?
I really don't like his style of offense. He's nothing more than a base runner, and he doesn't get on enough to exercise those skills.

I'd like to have someone who can at least hit a sacrifice fly with a runner on third, and less than two out. All he seems capable of hitting is a "seeing eye" single, or a Texas Leaguer.

Remember, he's only guaranteed to bat lead off once per game. After that, he's pretty useless. It's fine in the N.L., where the lead off guy usually comes to bat with no one on base, after the weak #8 hitter and the pitcher. In the A.L., the lead off hitter can expect to have a lot more chances to move runners up, or drive them in, and he just doesn't seem very capable of that, unless he sacrifice bunts.

He sure wasn't worth the money he got in that big contract, and I doubt he'll be worth what he's costing the Sox, even after what the Dodgers are kicking in.

You may not like Pierre, but he is definitely worth 4 million a year. Minus the first three weeks of the season, he has been a solid lead off man for the Sox. Grebeck, I dont want to hear it.

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by KMcMahon817

You may not like Pierre, but he is definitely worth 4 million a year. Minus the first three weeks of the season, he has been a solid lead off man for the Sox. Grebeck, I dont want to hear it.

Juan Pierre can still suck (and he does) but that doesn't mean De Aza is a better idea.

[Lillian]

Originally Posted by doublem23

Juan Pierre can still suck (and he does) but that doesn't mean De Aza is a better idea.

Of course, there is no guarantee that he would be any better.
However, I've seen enough of Pierre, and don't think there is any upside there. He is what he is, and has always been.
I'd rather hope that someone else could do better, and give him a chance.
Any other candidates whom you'd care to suggest?