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Old 04-12-2013, 02:53 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 12,244

Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
I got that but I think it's disingenious to claim that the Sox have been in some kind of Gray Zone that covers the franchise's one and only World Series title in the last average human lifetime. For the three seasons from 2004-2006, the Sox were probably one of the best teams in the league.

I would say the current era of Tire Spinning began in 2007 and the Sox have been unable to successfully move on. I think that's a pretty clear point where the team could have used a drastic overhaul, but instead they have gone with a much slower and more painful rebuild.
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
I would just say, from my own humble vantage point, the Sox "periods" of my lifetime are as follows:

1990-1994 - Torborg/Lamont/Big Hurt/Good Guys Wear Black Boom Years
1995-1997 - Terry Bevington Clown Years/Dismantling of the Dynasty that Never Was
1998-2003 - Jerry Manuel Kids Can Play Years
2004-2006 - Ozzieball Glory Years
2007-2013 - Whatever the **** This Is
Good point. You're right about the 2004-2006 time frame being an era of legitimate playoff contenders and how they've settled into more of a "playoff pretenders" rut since then (with, of course the one division title in '08 during this time).

I think one of the things that happened after 2006 is that the well started running dry of homegrown talent that could either become a big contributor to the Sox major league lineup or be used to acquire some decent talent via trade.

Remember, during this time Sox lineups featured farm system products like Ordonez, Carlos Lee, Crede, Rowand, Buehrle, Garland (acquired in 1998 as a minor leaguer from the Cubs), etc. The Sox also were able parlay some of their prospects for players like Garcia (for Olivo and Michael Morse), Vazquez (Chris Young), and Thome (Gio Gonzalez).

There was that sweet spot there where KW was a master at shuffling talent for pieces they needed on the major league roster. IMO, once the talent pool in our farm system ran dry and the next round of Sox prospects turned out to be duds like Anderson and Fields, Kenny's "smoke and mirrors" efforts to keep the Sox in that top tier of AL teams started to crumble.

He had a great run there in 2007-08 where he made a series of great trades (Fingernails on a blackboard () for Danks, Garcia for Floyd AND Gio, the Quentin trade. But those were all more than 5 years ago now. We haven't seen anything close to that since then and, to be honest, the Sox haven't had many pieces to trade in that time.

Originally Posted by My_Sox_Summer View Post
Good topic, good post Hitmen.

I take issue with this as I was one of those fans saying that. I guess it depends on what you call our fan base. I was angered at the end of the season when I am sitting watching a 1st place team, with their ace on the mound, in Sept. and there are only 10k people there on half price night. To compound matters, playoff tickets were sold out.

So are we a fan base that refuses to the do the heavy lifting? Are we bandwagon fans? Are we die hards?

I think the die hards were there that night and will show up regardless what the circumstances are. You would think bandwagon fans would be there as it doesn't matter to those fans what happened before or what will happen later, the now is the only thing that matters. But they weren't there. I think management wondered this too, which is why they did that huge survey and made price changes accordingly. This is not a unique situation, Tampa Bay, Baltimore are both in the same boat. But I know Baltimore struggled to sell playoff tickets, we did not.

We'll see how this year goes, but if there are lackluster numbers even with the lowered parking and ticket prices, I don't expect them to last. We need to attract that casual fan. As a fan, I think there are a lot of excuses made on both sides. But when the Sox offer a Sunday game that a family for four can go to for $30 ( $5 tickets and $10 parking) kinda hard to blame the organization, in my view.
I see your point. I share in the frustration in seeing small crowds last year when the Sox were still in first. But, I think, as frustrating as it is to us die-hard fans, it's just tough for most teams to do a full reversal and see 35k a night in September that quickly. Remember, at the start of the 2012 season the Sox had given the fans very low expectation of being a playoff contender. They even hired a manager for on-the-job training. I like Ventura, but this was a big signal to the fans that the Sox were not planning to compete in 2012. After 3 years in a row of bitter disappointments capped off by the "we're total quitters" team of 2011, the Sox were going into 2012 with low season ticket sales and low advanced sales. Those school year games are just brutal attendance wise if you don't have good advanced sales to start with and big crowds for those games were just not going to happen.

You're right that dynamic pricing and parking costs were also a factor. We'll never know what attendance would have been like last year if they had the $10 parking and $5 tickets on Sundays, etc. that they're offering this year.

I just reject the notion that this is "on the fans". It's up to the Sox organization to build up the market for their team and it has nothing to do with Sox fans being lousy fans and that the Sox product on the field over the last 5 years proves that the fans just suck.
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