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Old 01-14-2013, 10:47 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Modesto, California
Posts: 17,832

Originally Posted by Bob Roarman View Post
But you got "wrong" guys in the Hall of Fame already. There are ****ing racists in the HOF. I really don't care to hear what these purists think about recent players' "character" and "integrity" while upholding that. And to think that there isn't already a player in the Hall that used steroids or any type of PED is just being naive. It can't be both ways.

If those people want to accept those past HOF players on the warped basis of them being some kind of product of the attitudes of their time or whatever excuse people like TDog want to come up for it, then you make the same type distinctions for this era and every other era. Everything else has changed anyways. There's been a complete re-design of baseball parks, the dimensions, the mound has been lowered, the fences brought in, etc. You've got players' roles that have changed, 1 inning closers, 200 inning pitchers, middle relief, long relief,etc. Things have changed drastically.

The job itself of being a pro ball player has changed immensely. Completely different today, simply with the advancement of science, medical procedures, all the different work-out/dietary regimens, supplements, updated understandings of practically everything related to the game, the list goes on and on and that's before even getting to PEDs. As ridiculous as he usually sounds about just anything else, Jose Canseco probably hit the nail on the head when he talked about how in 40 to 50 years from now, people will look back at these arguments and laugh at how ridiculous they were. People can hate it all they want today, but PEDs are part of the game now and forever.
If you don't like racists in the Hall of Fame, you wouldn't want Barry Bonds in the Hall of Fame. I heard that Bonds told Ron Kittle he wouldn't sign for white people, in support of a charity no less, long before Ron's book was written. And that was consistent with some high-profile interviews Bonds gave. But that isn't why Bonds isn't in the Hall of Fame. And if Joes Canseco has any credibility a half century from now, I doubt it will be as a prophet.

The fact is, neither the all-time hits leader or the all-time home run leader in major league baseball are in the Baseball Hall of Fame, not because they were/are lousy excuses for human beings but because they betrayed baseball. Pete Rose and Barry Bonds not being in the Hall of Fame, Ty Cobb and Jim Rice being in the Hall of Fame are facts consistent with what the Hall of Fame has always been.

I'm not making excuses. From what I've been reading, the evils of Ty Cobb's life has been exaggerated, but even in its exaggeration, he was never accused of betraying baseball, which is where the character and integrity clause applies, and how it was applied to Hal Chase by the voters who put Ty Cobb in. What I have been writing is consistent with reality, however unacceptable you consider the reality. I am looking at what the Hall of Fame is and has been my entire life. The fact that there may be players in the Hall of Fame who got away with cheating does not mean all cheating should be ignored. It is you who wants to make the Hall fo Fame something it's not.

If people stop caring about steroid use in baseball, Bonds will get into the Hall of Fame. But I doubt they will anytime soon.
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