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View Full Version : Thome to be moved to 5-spot?


bigsoxfan420
04-16-2008, 10:14 AM
Definitely not a bad idea, with him struggling and all.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080415-jim-thome-chicago-white-sox-suspension,1,4637908.story

soxpride724
04-16-2008, 10:26 AM
I"m all for it. Move him to the 5 and get some hits, maybe build some confidence etc.

BainesHOF
04-16-2008, 10:29 AM
Bring up Fields and bat him vs. lefties and Thome vs. righties.

kevingrt
04-16-2008, 10:29 AM
I"m all for it. Move him to the 5 and get some hits, maybe build some confidence etc.

Do we stick with JD at the three spot then from yesterday and just flip flop JD and Thome. I don't think messing with a somewhat productive, at least winning, line-up right now would be the smartest thing.

Do we need to bring back the tinkerer?

soxpride724
04-16-2008, 10:32 AM
Bring up Fields and bat him vs. lefties and Thome vs. righties.

Not a bad idea. I would like to see fields in the lineup without or before trading Crede.

soxpride724
04-16-2008, 10:34 AM
Do we stick with JD at the three spot then from yesterday and just flip flop JD and Thome. I don't think messing with a somewhat productive, at least winning, line-up right now would be the smartest thing.

Do we need to bring back the tinkerer?


Yeah I guess if it's not broke don't fix it. The Sox haven't hit a slump yet, but when and if they dd it's something to consider.

jabrch
04-16-2008, 10:41 AM
Who cares? The difference between the expected productivity with Jim hitting 3 vs 5 relative to JD is nearly nil.

doublem23
04-16-2008, 10:41 AM
Well, while we're all freaking out about our Future Hall of Fame DH's lack of hitting lefties in the first two weeks of the season, Josh Fields is actually hitting lefties worse than righties now, in the first two weeks of the AAA season.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Josh%20Fields&pos=&sid=t494&t=p_pbp&pid=435222

It's Dankerific
04-16-2008, 10:44 AM
Well, while we're all freaking out about our Future Hall of Fame DH's lack of hitting lefties in the first two weeks of the season, Josh Fields is actually hitting lefties worse than righties now, in the first two weeks of the AAA season.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Josh%20Fields&pos=&sid=t494&t=p_pbp&pid=435222

Why is this all about Fields? Can't some right hander on the CURRENT roster hit LH for Thome? BA has had some good at-bats. Hell, if Lexi makes contact it'll go pretty far. Ozuna could be some speed on the basepaths if it wasnt a RBI situation. Thats like 3 - options, not in AAA. Not to mention if one of the current RH starters was resting that day on the bench.

TomBradley72
04-16-2008, 11:02 AM
Bring up Fields and bat him vs. lefties and Thome vs. righties.

The one area Fields can benefit from in AAA is defense...he needs to be playing 3rd every day...I'd go with Dye/Konerko as the DH against LH, move Swisher to RF or 1B when you do that. BA or Ramirez in CF.

BadBobbyJenks
04-16-2008, 11:08 AM
The one area Fields can benefit from in AAA is defense...he needs to be playing 3rd every day...I'd go with Dye/Konerko as the DH against LH, move Swisher to RF or 1B when you do that. BA or Ramirez in CF.

Agreed except I would put Quentin in RF and Swisher in left

soxfan21
04-16-2008, 11:12 AM
I think that this will be good for Thome. As stated before hopefully he'll get a few more hits here and build a little more confidence in his stroke. When he does start improving, just move him back to the 3 spot and everything will be all good hopefully.

doublem23
04-16-2008, 11:48 AM
Why is this all about Fields? Can't some right hander on the CURRENT roster hit LH for Thome? BA has had some good at-bats. Hell, if Lexi makes contact it'll go pretty far. Ozuna could be some speed on the basepaths if it wasnt a RBI situation. Thats like 3 - options, not in AAA. Not to mention if one of the current RH starters was resting that day on the bench.

I'm just pointing out that a lot of the people throwing a hissy fit over Thome's slow start seem to think that Josh Fields will come up and magically mash LHP.

:tsk:

Be careful what you wish for.

SoxyStu
04-16-2008, 11:53 AM
No. Do not switch Dye and Thome. We have only two beefy lefty batters in the lineup and I don't think it's a good idea to have them bat back to back... Even if AJ would provide more protection than Konerko right now.

munchman33
04-16-2008, 12:11 PM
Why is this all about Fields? Can't some right hander on the CURRENT roster hit LH for Thome? BA has had some good at-bats.

I'd rather see Thome blind-folded one handed swinging against lefties with a tennis racket than Brian Anderson against anyone in a slow pitch softball league. If we're sitting Thome, our best pure power hitter, it isn't going to be to get some hack with the stick like BA more at bats. At least the Fields thing was realistic.

TomBradley72
04-16-2008, 12:19 PM
I'd rather see Thome blind-folded one handed swinging against lefties with a tennis racket

That pretty much sums up what we're getting when Thome's in there against lefties (Opening Day being the exception). BA in CF also upgrades your defense (assuming Dye moves to DH when you do this), and gives you a little more speed in the line up. I think he's shown enough this year between spring training and the few ABs he's had that he's improved. It's a better option than Fields losing the ability to work on his major weakness (defense) by sitting on the bench most of the time.

EndemicSox
04-16-2008, 12:24 PM
I'd rather see Thome blind-folded one handed swinging against lefties with a tennis racket than Brian Anderson against anyone in a slow pitch softball league. If we're sitting Thome, our best pure power hitter, it isn't going to be to get some hack with the stick like BA more at bats. At least the Fields thing was realistic.

Are we watching the same Thome? The guy who is lucky to break the mendoza line versus lefties?

doublem23
04-16-2008, 12:30 PM
Are we watching the same Thome? The guy who is lucky to break the mendoza line versus lefties?

Even for his struggles against lefties, since he joined the Sox, his OBP vs. left-handed pitching: .354 in 2006, .314 in 2007, .389 in 2008.

So yeah, some of us do prefer seeing his bat in the lineup, rather than a guy like Brian Anderson, a guy who's career BA (against everybody) is just barely above the Mendoza line.

munchman33
04-16-2008, 12:35 PM
Are we watching the same Thome? The guy who is lucky to break the mendoza line versus lefties?

He's actually hitting .313 against lefties this year. And his OBP against lefties from 2005-2007 is .325. Not stellar (or good for that matter), but when exactly did Brian Anderson show he can even do that consistently?

And please don't feed me spring training statistics.

hawkjt
04-16-2008, 12:37 PM
Flipping JD and Thome is worth a try. JD would get up in the first with Swisher and Orlando on base,hopefully, and he is hitting well right now.

Everyone else stays in place and we see how Jimbo responds. I doubt he would have any problems with it ....Jim Thome...team player.

doublem23
04-16-2008, 12:39 PM
He's actually hitting .313 against lefties this year. And his OBP against lefties from 2005-2007 is .325. Not stellar (or good for that matter), but when exactly did Brian Anderson show he can even do that consistently?

And please don't feed me spring training statistics.

We agree? I feel so... dirty.

:tongue:

It's Dankerific
04-16-2008, 01:12 PM
He's actually hitting .313 against lefties this year. And his OBP against lefties from 2005-2007 is .325. Not stellar (or good for that matter), but when exactly did Brian Anderson show he can even do that consistently?

And please don't feed me spring training statistics.

This wasnt about BA. It was about ANY of the RH on the bench instead. But to answer your question, BA hasn't had a CHANCE to anything but ride the bench consistently (and he does a damn fine job at it too! :cool:)

doublem23
04-16-2008, 01:17 PM
This wasnt about BA. It was about ANY of the RH on the bench instead. But to answer your question, BA hasn't had a CHANCE to anything but ride the bench consistently (and he does a damn fine job at it too! :cool:)

Except for that one season he played 134 (started 108 of them), and hit a robust .225? Except for when he was given the starting CF job and blew it, he hasn't had a chance, right?

kobo
04-16-2008, 01:21 PM
Except for that one season he played 134 (started 108 of them), and hit a robust .225? Except for when he was given the starting CF job and blew it, he hasn't had a chance, right?
Does this road need to be travelled every time someone mentions playing BA?

doublem23
04-16-2008, 01:29 PM
Does this road need to be travelled every time someone mentions playing BA?

Yes, because the BA lovers always like to tell the "unfair" tale of Brian Anderson and how he has to ride the pine, never allowed to show what caliber player he is, except that he had a full season to prove it. The Sox traded away a popular, productive center fielder just to open a spot in the Starting 9 for him and he stunk up the joint. Toss in his immature and childish behavior and attitude since then and yes, everytime someone cries for Brian Anderson, it should be mentioned that he probably would still have a starting job if he could have preformed like a below average MLB player.

It's Dankerific
04-16-2008, 01:35 PM
Except for that one season he played 134 (started 108 of them), and hit a robust .225? Except for when he was given the starting CF job and blew it, he hasn't had a chance, right?

Does this road need to be travelled every time someone mentions playing BA?

Apparently. Even though these posters want to make it a BA fest, its not.

Maybe I should start digging through other stats from 2006 to see who I should play in 2008. I mean, that Longoria kid didn't even get a single hit in the Major leagues in 2006. Literally, if a rookie isn't HOF bound in 134 games he needs to be shipped out of town.

btw, good job agreeing with mr. DLS = HOF guy

bigsoxfan420
04-16-2008, 01:38 PM
If BA is such a good option to replace Thome, then trade his ass for some starting pitching. Which of course should be in teal, since no pitcher worth his weight would be gotten.

Brian Anderson = Joe Borchard

doublem23
04-16-2008, 01:42 PM
Maybe I should start digging through other stats from 2006 to see who I should play in 2008. I mean, that Longoria kid didn't even get a single hit in the Major leagues in 2006. Literally, if a rookie isn't HOF bound in 134 games he needs to be shipped out of town.


All right, so if you want to give BA another 400 PAs this year, exactly whom are you going to take them from? Swisher? Dye? Quentin? Thome? The Sox are organizationally still in "win-now" mode (and they've actually looked pretty decent these first two weeks), so I'm sorry if I'd rather ride proven high quality hitters and the one guy who was a question mark who's started the season pretty hot. If by the middle of the summer, the wheels have fallen off the 2008 season and the Sox need to start evaluating talent for 2009 and beyond, then we can talk about letting Brian Anderson play everyday to see if he's actually got his head screwed on straight. Until then, he can ride the ****ing bench where he belongs.

Frater Perdurabo
04-16-2008, 01:51 PM
Why does a thread on Thome have to turn into yet another stupid argument about BA?

FWIW, I think swapping Dye and Thome would be a good idea.

It's Dankerific
04-16-2008, 01:55 PM
All right, so if you want to give BA another 400 PAs this year, exactly whom are you going to take them from? Swisher? Dye? Quentin? Thome? The Sox are organizationally still in "win-now" mode (and they've actually looked pretty decent these first two weeks), so I'm sorry if I'd rather ride proven high quality hitters and the one guy who was a question mark who's started the season pretty hot. If by the middle of the summer, the wheels have fallen off the 2008 season and the Sox need to start evaluating talent for 2009 and beyond, then we can talk about letting Brian Anderson play everyday to see if he's actually got his head screwed on straight. Until then, he can ride the ****ing bench where he belongs.

*** did I say 400 PAs? I said it'd be nice to give Thome a break against Lefties, especially in close and late situations where they bring out the leftie specialists JUST to get Thome out. Then i said BA could be one of 3 freaking options to do that. How is that 400 PAs? Sounds more like 20-50 among 3 players!

Thanks for taking this train off the tracks.

JB98
04-16-2008, 02:00 PM
No. Do not switch Dye and Thome. We have only two beefy lefty batters in the lineup and I don't think it's a good idea to have them bat back to back... Even if AJ would provide more protection than Konerko right now.

Agreed. Even though Thome is struggling, we're still winning games. Leave well enough alone.

JB98
04-16-2008, 02:02 PM
I'd rather see Thome blind-folded one handed swinging against lefties with a tennis racket than Brian Anderson against anyone in a slow pitch softball league. If we're sitting Thome, our best pure power hitter, it isn't going to be to get some hack with the stick like BA more at bats. At least the Fields thing was realistic.

:popcorn::popcorn:

hawkjt
04-16-2008, 02:06 PM
The next week we face only one lefty, I think. Guthrie,Jackson,Wang are rightys with Loewen as a lefty tonite. Ok, not sure about the other two TB pitchers..so maybe we get a good run of rightys where the back to back leftys (Jim and AJ) would not be so problematic until late innnings.

I would like to see some first inning potential to get out on top and with Jim in the 3-hole..right now it is not happening.

BainesHOF
04-16-2008, 02:14 PM
Well, while we're all freaking out about our Future Hall of Fame DH's lack of hitting lefties in the first two weeks of the season...

First two weeks?! Thome has been weak against lefties for years.

BainesHOF
04-16-2008, 02:16 PM
The one area Fields can benefit from in AAA is defense...he needs to be playing 3rd every day...

I don't care about his defensive development for the future when we have a chance to win a World Series this year. Bring him up and let him rip against lefties.

munchman33
04-16-2008, 02:17 PM
*** did I say 400 PAs? I said it'd be nice to give Thome a break against Lefties, especially in close and late situations where they bring out the leftie specialists JUST to get Thome out. Then i said BA could be one of 3 freaking options to do that. How is that 400 PAs? Sounds more like 20-50 among 3 players!

Thanks for taking this train off the tracks.

You mentioning BA as an option is what took the train off the tracks. It's completely unreasonable.

Let's put it this way. Would you pinch hit BA for Thome late in a game because he's facing a lefty? No. And neither would Ozzie. Because if he did, he'd be fired.

Now a righty with power and pop that has proven to hit lefties well might be okay to do. But you didn't say that. You said give BA at bats. The one guy who's likely to do worse at the plate than Thome does against lefties.

ChiTownTrojan
04-16-2008, 02:22 PM
That pretty much sums up what we're getting when Thome's in there against lefties (Opening Day being the exception). BA in CF also upgrades your defense (assuming Dye moves to DH when you do this), and gives you a little more speed in the line up. I think he's shown enough this year between spring training and the few ABs he's had that he's improved. It's a better option than Fields losing the ability to work on his major weakness (defense) by sitting on the bench most of the time.
I don't think Fields' defense is going to be hurt by him DHing most of the time. In the average game, there are what, 4-5 balls hit to third base? These guys practice too, you know. During an average practice session they'll see a lot more balls than that.

Batting, on the other hand, can't be simulated in practice. There's no substitute for live major league pitching. But I think Fields is at the point where his development is not going to be derailed by only playing in half the games.

thomas35forever
04-16-2008, 02:23 PM
I don't have a problem with it. I even just benched Thome on my fantasy team in favor of Adam Jones, who's been getting on base lately. We'll have to see if this move is permanent.

It's Dankerific
04-16-2008, 02:43 PM
You mentioning BA as an option is what took the train off the tracks. It's completely unreasonable.

Let's put it this way. Would you pinch hit BA for Thome late in a game because he's facing a lefty? No. And neither would Ozzie. Because if he did, he'd be fired.

Now a righty with power and pop that has proven to hit lefties well might be okay to do. But you didn't say that. You said give BA at bats. The one guy who's likely to do worse at the plate than Thome does against lefties.

I wouldn't be pinch hitting BA because he'd already be starting in CF against a lefty. Thats a different thread.

I don't think BA, or anyone else, could do _much_ worse against the specialist lefty as Thome is doing now, and has done the last 2 years. If we're all going to bash BA because of his 2006 stats, why isnt the same scrutiny tacked on to Thome's 2006 AND 2007 stats against Leftys? Because he was a HOF caliber player while playing for 2 other different teams?? Excuse me if I don't bow down at the altar of Jim Thome who has been here all of 2+ seasons and during that time as sucked it up when it comes to being a #3 hitter against Leftys. Awesome he hit two HR against CC on opening day. Considering we lost that game, maybe it would have been better for it never to have happened so that the team could make the right moves for 2008.

munchman33
04-16-2008, 03:34 PM
I wouldn't be pinch hitting BA because he'd already be starting in CF against a lefty. Thats a different thread.

I don't think BA, or anyone else, could do _much_ worse against the specialist lefty as Thome is doing now, and has done the last 2 years. If we're all going to bash BA because of his 2006 stats, why isnt the same scrutiny tacked on to Thome's 2006 AND 2007 stats against Leftys? Because he was a HOF caliber player while playing for 2 other different teams?? Excuse me if I don't bow down at the altar of Jim Thome who has been here all of 2+ seasons and during that time as sucked it up when it comes to being a #3 hitter against Leftys. Awesome he hit two HR against CC on opening day. Considering we lost that game, maybe it would have been better for it never to have happened so that the team could make the right moves for 2008.

Read my previous post on Thome's OBP against lefties the last three years. It's .325. Which Brian can't sniff.

Thome isn't brutal against lefties. He's just bad. Whereas Brian is brutal. There's a difference.

It's Dankerific
04-16-2008, 04:30 PM
Read my previous post on Thome's OBP against lefties the last three years. It's .325. Which Brian can't sniff.

Thome isn't brutal against lefties. He's just bad. Whereas Brian is brutal. There's a difference.

When in 2006? Or is this just your magic ability to tell how someone hit?

There IS recent Thome data
There IS NOT recent BA data

Using your logic, We should see if any other people have done well in 2006 that are out of baseball, because 2006 = NOW

Or perhaps we should sit AJ after the allstar break because he had .292 OBP after the allstar break in 2006!

doublem23
04-16-2008, 04:57 PM
When in 2006? Or is this just your magic ability to tell how someone hit?

There IS recent Thome data
There IS NOT recent BA data

Using your logic, We should see if any other people have done well in 2006 that are out of baseball, because 2006 = NOW

Or perhaps we should sit AJ after the allstar break because he had .292 OBP after the allstar break in 2006!

Oh yeah, you've nailed the argument. :rolleyes:

If your unwilling to accept that there's still a difference between Jim Thome and Brian Anderson (or whatever other bench-riding scrub you'd prefer to hit against lefties) then we just need to agree to disagree and see how it plays out.

It's Dankerific
04-16-2008, 05:21 PM
Oh yeah, you've nailed the argument. :rolleyes:

If your unwilling to accept that there's still a difference between Jim Thome and Brian Anderson (or whatever other bench-riding scrub you'd prefer to hit against lefties) then we just need to agree to disagree and see how it plays out.

I think we need to agree to disagree because I DO think there is a difference between Jim Thome and whatever bench-riding scrub could hit for him in the late innings of a game against a lefty specialist.

Unfortunately, we'll probably only get to see your preferred scenario play out. So you = happy regardless of results. Me = probably disappointed unless a miracle occurs (either Thome has some sustained success against those lefties or someone else pinch hits for him).

doublem23
04-16-2008, 05:29 PM
I think we need to agree to disagree because I DO think there is a difference between Jim Thome and whatever bench-riding scrub could hit for him in the late innings of a game against a lefty specialist.

Unfortunately, we'll probably only get to see your preferred scenario play out. So you = happy regardless of results. Me = probably disappointed unless a miracle occurs (either Thome has some sustained success against those lefties or someone else pinch hits for him).

As long as I'm happy. :D:

munchman33
04-16-2008, 05:49 PM
When in 2006? Or is this just your magic ability to tell how someone hit?

There IS recent Thome data
There IS NOT recent BA data



There is plenty of data on BA. There just isn't any that suggests he can hit at the major league level enough to even be a BAD baseball player. Yet you want to take at bats from Jim Thome and give them to him.

I'm glad you're not in charge.

It's Dankerific
04-16-2008, 05:49 PM
There is plenty of data on BA. There just isn't any that suggests he can hit at the major league level enough to even be a BAD baseball player. Yet you want to take at bats from Jim Thome and give them to him.

I'm glad you're not in charge.

Even if I woulda penciled in DLS to start opening day???

BadBobbyJenks
04-16-2008, 07:12 PM
How Good Is Jim Thome!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jabrch
04-16-2008, 10:07 PM
I guess he can stay in the #3 spot?

It's Dankerific
04-16-2008, 10:16 PM
I guess he can stay in the #3 spot?

I figured the WOW LOOK AT THIS ONE GAME people would be out quickly.

Maybe it shows he needs a day off now and then.