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getonbckthr
04-13-2008, 08:41 PM
Would it be a horrible idea to give Thome a day off against the Lefty and try to refocus? Throw Anderson in CF and DH Swisher?

TheOldRoman
04-13-2008, 08:47 PM
I am fine with giving Thome days off, especially against lefties. However, why would they DH Swish? DH Dye, and go Swisher-Anderson-Quentin from left to right. That is the best possible defensive outfield we have. Also, any day you gave give Dye a break in the field will be good for him in the long run.

Swisher can play first also (and I presume he is out backup 1b). He should be at first every time Paulie is off or playing DH for Thome. There is no reason to ever DH Swisher.

BRDSR
04-13-2008, 08:48 PM
Would it be a horrible idea to give Thome a day off against the Lefty and try to refocus? Throw Anderson in CF and DH Swisher?

I like it. He's looked pretty brutal for awhile now.

On the other hand, his two home runs this year have both come against lefties (well, one lefty).

getonbckthr
04-13-2008, 08:52 PM
I am fine with giving Thome days off, especially against lefties. However, why would they DH Swish? DH Dye, and go Swisher-Anderson-Quentin from left to right. That is the best possible defensive outfield we have. Also, any day you gave give Dye a break in the field will be good for him in the long run.

Swisher can play first also (and I presume he is out backup 1b). He should be at first every time Paulie is off or playing DH for Thome. There is no reason to ever DH Swisher.
Ya that makes more sense.

cws05champ
04-13-2008, 08:59 PM
Would it be a horrible idea to give Thome a day off against the Lefty and try to refocus? Throw Anderson in CF and DH Swisher?
I was surprised that BA did not get the start in CF today against Rogers. He is 4-9 against him in his career so far. It would have been nice to DH Dye and have the Swisher-BA-Quentin OF.

TDog
04-13-2008, 09:23 PM
I don't know who the Sox are schedule to face on Wednesday, but they will faced a lefty today and will face lefties Monday and Tuesdays.

I haven't checked, but Thome might be hitting better against lefties than righties. I don't know that he is hitting anyone.

Brian26
04-13-2008, 09:31 PM
Would it be a horrible idea to give Thome a day off against the Lefty and try to refocus? Throw Anderson in CF and DH Swisher?

Not at a bad idea at all. I actually thought Thome looked like he was breaking out of the slump today. He went 1-for-3 with a walk, and one of those outs came right after he missed a HR to RF by a matter of a few feet.

The great thing about Thome is that even when he's not hitting, he's still drawing walks and scoring runs, and his presence in the lineup is going to help the guys behind him.

DumpJerry
04-13-2008, 09:33 PM
Thome would have had a home run off Rogers today in the 1st. It had the velocity, height and distance. Unfortunately, there was a fierce left to right which took the ball just foul. It landed near the last row around 109.

gogosox16
04-13-2008, 09:34 PM
Not at a bad idea at all. I actually thought Thome looked like he was breaking out of the slump today. He went 1-for-3 with a walk, and one of those outs came right after he missed a HR to RF by a matter of a few feet.

The great thing about Thome is that even when he's not hitting, he's still drawing walks and scoring runs, and his presence in the lineup is going to help the guys behind him.
Well said, even with him struggling hitting right now, he is still having an impact on his team.....it's still affecting everyone around them and how they are getting pitched.......Thome I believe needs one of the next 2 games off since it's back to back lefties but which ever game he sits, we should move Pualie to DH, Swish to first, and BA or Alexei in Center

scarsofthumper
04-13-2008, 09:53 PM
I agree with benching Thome tomorrow. He's had a rollercoaster weekend and could use a break. Just do Quentin/Anderson/Swisher and DH Dye

chisoxfanatic
04-13-2008, 10:12 PM
Not at a bad idea at all. I actually thought Thome looked like he was breaking out of the slump today. He went 1-for-3 with a walk, and one of those outs came right after he missed a HR to RF by a matter of a few feet.

The great thing about Thome is that even when he's not hitting, he's still drawing walks and scoring runs, and his presence in the lineup is going to help the guys behind him.

The nice thing about this lineup, unlike last year's, is that it seems that if one guy can't get that timely hit, the next guy is backing him up. Thome had a couple chances to knock some guys in but couldn't today, so what happened afterwards? Paul Konerko just racked himself up 5 RBIs.

The Dude
04-13-2008, 10:13 PM
TheOldRoman said it best, Dye needs to be DH any time Thome gets a day off. The more times he is not in the OF, the better off we are defensively. As Thome will be fine, just wait until he and the weather heats up. We may end up with run totals in the 20s. :redneck

JB98
04-13-2008, 10:20 PM
I totally disagree with any suggestion that Thome be removed from the lineup. We won 7-0 Saturday. We won 11-0 today. What the **** is this? The Jerry Manuel Memorial Thread?

Tinker, tinker.

BRDSR
04-13-2008, 10:23 PM
Not at a bad idea at all. I actually thought Thome looked like he was breaking out of the slump today. He went 1-for-3 with a walk, and one of those outs came right after he missed a HR to RF by a matter of a few feet.


I'll give you the missed HR to right field, but you can't give him credit for that AND his hit. If you do, you must not have seen the hit. Sky-high pop-up right to Miguel Cabrera at third, who, bad groin and all, slips trying to navigate around the third-base umpire. The ball hit about two feet fair on the home plate side of third base, probably 4 or 5 seconds after Cabrera fell. It was, as Hawk would say, a major league popup, and it is an out 999 times out of 1000.

FourStarsTwoBars
04-13-2008, 10:31 PM
Not at a bad idea at all. I actually thought Thome looked like he was breaking out of the slump today. He went 1-for-3 with a walk, and one of those outs came right after he missed a HR to RF by a matter of a few feet.

The great thing about Thome is that even when he's not hitting, he's still drawing walks and scoring runs, and his presence in the lineup is going to help the guys behind him.

Although his 'hit' was a gift today(see Umpire tackling Inge)

Brian26
04-13-2008, 10:58 PM
I'll give you the missed HR to right field, but you can't give him credit for that AND his hit.

Yeah, I saw that. I forgot Thome hit that because I was too distracted by DJ talking about playing Brain Age 2 on the Nintendo DS.

mealfred13
04-13-2008, 11:03 PM
Although his 'hit' was a gift today(see Umpire tackling Inge)

Actually, that wasn't Inge, but Miguel Cabrera who ran into the umpire. The reason I bring it up is because the more I see of him at the plate and in the field, the more I feel like the Sox were the recipients of some veiled good luck by NOT being able to sign him during the off season.

BRDSR
04-13-2008, 11:09 PM
Yeah, I saw that. I forgot Thome hit that because I was too distracted by DJ talking about playing Brain Age 2 on the Nintendo DS.

Haha, touche. That was pretty Santoish of DJ (and Hawk, too, to be fair).

Ziggy S
04-13-2008, 11:59 PM
I totally disagree with any suggestion that Thome be removed from the lineup. We won 7-0 Saturday. We won 11-0 today. What the **** is this? The Jerry Manuel Memorial Thread?

Tinker, tinker.

It's not like the guy is creeping up on 40 years of age or anything and has had some injury troubles in the last three years. Why would we want to keep Big Jim healthy and avoid the guy having more than one DL stint this season.

Ziggy S
04-14-2008, 12:00 AM
Yeah, I saw that. I forgot Thome hit that because I was too distracted by DJ talking about playing Brain Age 2 on the Nintendo DS.
Was AJ's hot start, due in part to his DS playing mentioned or was DJ going off on some weird tangent, as usual?

IlliniSox4Life
04-14-2008, 01:09 AM
Was AJ's hot start, due in part to his DS playing mentioned or was DJ going off on some weird tangent, as usual?

I didn't hear what DJ said, but AJ has mentioned that the DS playing might have helped him. Personally I would think his better shape, focus, and approach have contributed to it more. Who knows, maybe he is hoping for an endorsement deal from Nintendo.

hawkjt
04-14-2008, 01:12 AM
Thome should take tomorrow off..it is going to be cold,it is a lefty, and tuesday is going to be warmer and in the sunshine. Throw BA or Alexi out there in center and move swisher to right.

Oakland is hot. I do not like them at all and would love to see the Sox set the tone with them tomorrow. Mark needs to give us another MB game and the bats have to be picky... Nick Swisher Reunion Nite...beat their arses, Nick.

pudge
04-14-2008, 01:26 AM
Thome should take tomorrow off..it is going to be cold,it is a lefty, and tuesday is going to be warmer and in the sunshine. Throw BA or Alexi out there in center and move swisher to right.



Seriously, Thome is a DH, why sit him ever if he's healthy? What I love about what Ozzie is doing this year is not screwin' with the lineup. I don't know where this sudden attitude came from, but I love it. I can't believe we haven't seen Alexi since opening day, but I'm absolutely thrilled. Just saw an interview regarding Owens and Ozzie said, "As long as we're winning I'm putting the same lineup out there every day." Amen!! Honestly, I think guys like B.Anderson and Alexi can get their at-bats in blowouts. Let's win, baby.

Jurr
04-14-2008, 11:13 AM
Seriously, Thome is a DH, why sit him ever if he's healthy? What I love about what Ozzie is doing this year is not screwin' with the lineup. I don't know where this sudden attitude came from, but I love it. I can't believe we haven't seen Alexi since opening day, but I'm absolutely thrilled. Just saw an interview regarding Owens and Ozzie said, "As long as we're winning I'm putting the same lineup out there every day." Amen!! Honestly, I think guys like B.Anderson and Alexi can get their at-bats in blowouts. Let's win, baby.
Well said. Last year drove me nuts, and I understand that injuries were partly to blame. The good teams seem to put a consistent lineup out there. Players get in that groove, and if that's a winning groove, you don't mess that up.

JB98
04-14-2008, 12:19 PM
It's not like the guy is creeping up on 40 years of age or anything and has had some injury troubles in the last three years. Why would we want to keep Big Jim healthy and avoid the guy having more than one DL stint this season.

We've already had two days with no game this week. Jim isn't tired or hurting. He's had plenty of rest.

If we were currently in a stretch of 20 consecutive games or something like that, I might agree with you. But that is simply not the case.

IMO, Jim needs to play and hit his way out of this slump. He is still seeing pitches and working counts. His presence helps the team even when he is making outs.

We've won seven out of nine with basically the same lineup. My opinion: Let's keep it rolling tonight.

Domeshot17
04-14-2008, 12:23 PM
I didn't hear what DJ said, but AJ has mentioned that the DS playing might have helped him. Personally I would think his better shape, focus, and approach have contributed to it more. Who knows, maybe he is hoping for an endorsement deal from Nintendo.


Actually, AJ has come and said he played a ton of some game on the DS that improves hand eye cordination. He said because of that DS game he is seeing the ball so much better which is helping his hitting and reaction. DJ was going on about the DS because of those statements.

hawkjt
04-14-2008, 12:48 PM
The Sox are only one hit ahead of the team with the fewest hits in the AL..Detroit brings up the rear with 94 hits, sox have 95.
We are doing all the rest of the offensive game well like taking BB and hitting with runners in scoring position. I am a little concerned that it is masking our fundamental problem of last year...bad hitting averages.

On the other hand..just wait til they start to hit!!! Go Sox.

getonbckthr
04-14-2008, 12:56 PM
I don't want to give Thome the day off as a physical break or punishment. I want to give him a mental day off where he can sit in the dugout and relax and watch opposed to stress out.

MisterB
04-14-2008, 01:08 PM
Seriously, Thome is a DH, why sit him ever if he's healthy?

He isn't healthy. His ongoing back problems have cost him playing time (to varying degrees) the last 3 years. Why not give him a day off now and then to try to stave off any serious flare-ups? It's not like he's tearing the cover off the ball right now, and he doesn't hit lefties well even when hit back isn't acting up.

Well said. Last year drove me nuts, and I understand that injuries were partly to blame. The good teams seem to put a consistent lineup out there.
They seem to, but really they don't. Take last season's AL playoff teams for example:

Red Sox: 109 different lineups/most common lineup used 14 times
Yankees: 102/12
Indians: 117/11
Angels: 127/9

'07 White Sox: 124/7 (considering all the injuries and player movement, isn't that out of line)

Frater Perdurabo
04-14-2008, 01:09 PM
The Sox are only one hit ahead of the team with the fewest hits in the AL..Detroit brings up the rear with 94 hits, sox have 95.
We are doing all the rest of the offensive game well like taking BB and hitting with runners in scoring position. I am a little concerned that it is masking our fundamental problem of last year...bad hitting averages.

On the other hand..just wait til they start to hit!!! Go Sox.

Thome and Cabrera will not hit under .200 for the whole year. OTOH, AJ and Crede won't be hitting over .400 for the whole year.

The Sox may not end up with the highest batting average, but as long as they can work counts, take walks, hit extra base hits, take advantage of scoring opportunities, and chase starting pitchers early, they can feast on mediocre relievers in the later innings.

TomBradley72
04-14-2008, 01:31 PM
I don't want to give Thome the day off as a physical break or punishment. I want to give him a mental day off where he can sit in the dugout and relax and watch opposed to stress out.

Normally I'd say I agree...combined with other factors (cold weather, LH starter for A's) I'd like to see Dye moved to DH, Swisher to right, BA in CF. A little more athletic in the field, and Thome needs a day off.

But the team is hot....I'd stay with the "set line up" until they cool off.

Frater Perdurabo
04-14-2008, 01:33 PM
Normally I'd say I agree...combined with other factors (cold weather, LH starter for A's) I'd like to see Dye moved to DH, Swisher to right, BA in CF. A little more athletic in the field, and Thome needs a day off.

But the team is hot....I'd stay with the "set line up" until they cool off.

If you're going to give Thome a rest and DH Dye, and put BA in CF, I'd have Quentin in RF for his arm and Swisher in left.

The Immigrant
04-14-2008, 01:54 PM
I am a little concerned that it is masking our fundamental problem of last year...bad hitting averages.

This is just another example of how batting averages alone tell you very little about a team's offense.

TDog
04-14-2008, 01:56 PM
Normally I'd say I agree...combined with other factors (cold weather, LH starter for A's) I'd like to see Dye moved to DH, Swisher to right, BA in CF. A little more athletic in the field, and Thome needs a day off.

But the team is hot....I'd stay with the "set line up" until they cool off.

If Thome were the regular first baseman, DHing him would be a day off. Sunday was a cold day with the White Sox facing a left-handed starter, and Thome was in the lineup. Tuesday will be a cold day with the White Sox facing a left-handed starter, Wednesday probably will be a cold night in Baltimore with the White Sox facing a (scheduled) left-handed starter. If Thome were nursing an injury, I could see sitting him.

It's true that not all southpaws are created equal. Steve Carlton was tougher to hit than Wayne Edwards. Still, facing successive left-handers -- and maybe Lip can remember when the Sox last faced four straight southpaw starters because I can't -- has to help adjust the hitters, Thome included, to hitting unspectacular left-handed pitching.

If on a regular basis you want to get rid of Thome in favor of Dye at DH and Anderson in center, I think you unnecessarily would be diminishing your lineup.

What concerns me about the A's series is not Thome hitting against lefties or Dye in right field. It is that the A's seem to be playing very well. They are 5-1 on their current roadtrip and hit Cleveland pitching hard.

nsdjoe
04-14-2008, 02:13 PM
The Sox are only one hit ahead of the team with the fewest hits in the AL..Detroit brings up the rear with 94 hits, sox have 95.
We are doing all the rest of the offensive game well like taking BB and hitting with runners in scoring position. I am a little concerned that it is masking our fundamental problem of last year...bad hitting averages.

On the other hand..just wait til they start to hit!!! Go Sox.

Note that we have 2 fewer games than most teams.. add in 16 hits and we're squarely in the middle of the pack.

Another interesting note is that even though we have 2nd fewest hits, we have the 2nd most RBIs. Which means the hits are coming exactly when they're most needed -- with men in scoring position.

TDog
04-14-2008, 03:47 PM
Note that we have 2 fewer games than most teams.. add in 16 hits and we're squarely in the middle of the pack.

Another interesting note is that even though we have 2nd fewest hits, we have the 2nd most RBIs. Which means the hits are coming exactly when they're most needed -- with men in scoring position.

And here I was all excited because in the American League only Kansas City's pitchers have given up fewer hits than the White Sox pitching staff.

btrain929
04-14-2008, 03:59 PM
This is just another example of how batting averages alone tell you very little about a team's offense.
:hawk "Don't tell me what you hit....tell me WHEN you hit them......"

btrain929
04-14-2008, 04:00 PM
Note that we have 2 fewer games than most teams.. add in 16 hits and we're squarely in the middle of the pack.

Another interesting note is that even though we have 2nd fewest hits, we have the 2nd most RBIs. Which means the hits are coming exactly when they're most needed -- with men in scoring position.

Both points are very good. Well played, sir.

JorgeFabregas
04-14-2008, 04:11 PM
Monday's lineup is...wait for it...

the regular lineup. Per Reifert's blog.

JB98
04-14-2008, 05:40 PM
I don't want to give Thome the day off as a physical break or punishment. I want to give him a mental day off where he can sit in the dugout and relax and watch opposed to stress out.

Way too early in the season for that. Way too early.

getonbckthr
04-14-2008, 05:47 PM
Way too early in the season for that. Way too early.
Francona didn't think so last night with David Ortiz.

chisoxfanatic
04-14-2008, 05:47 PM
Monday's lineup is...wait for it...

the regular lineup. Per Reifert's blog.

Good to hear. You can't be tinkering with lineups like Ozzie did Friday night. The regular lineup wins games.

JB98
04-14-2008, 05:48 PM
Francona didn't think so last night with David Ortiz.

Well, that settles it. Obviously, Thome's situation is identical to Ortiz.

hawkjt
04-14-2008, 06:01 PM
Note that we have 2 fewer games than most teams.. add in 16 hits and we're squarely in the middle of the pack.

Another interesting note is that even though we have 2nd fewest hits, we have the 2nd most RBIs. Which means the hits are coming exactly when they're most needed -- with men in scoring position.

most teams have played 12 to our 11...I give you that. I guess that makes our league leading 70 runs even more impressive and that we are doing it while hitting .256 as a team..not great really as compared to the Angels .301..but who cares as long as we score the runs..

What is a bit surprising to me is that only AJ,Joe and JD are hitting over that .256 number...we have a lot of slumbering bats who are finding other ways to get it done.. cool.

BRDSR
04-14-2008, 06:10 PM
What is a bit surprising to me is that only AJ,Joe and JD are hitting over that .256 number...we have a lot of slumbering bats who are finding other ways to get it done.. cool.

We are, but that's easy when you hit a grand slam every other time the bases are loaded. Now, there is an element of great chemistry, clutch hitting, and just general moxy, but at some point bad luck and/or the law of averages will rear its ugly head. When that happens, we're going to need the team batting better than .256 or it could lose 6 or 7 in a row.

Don't get me wrong. This team is playing great, the pitchers are doing better than expected (which may not be a fluke), and I don't necessarily expect to see the team regress. But moxy will only take you so far. This team is not going to lead the American League in runs this season.

hawkjt
04-14-2008, 06:26 PM
I am counting on Orlando Cabrera to hit to his form of last year at .310...that will help. Also, hoping that PK,Jimbo,Joe,AJ,JD will all hit near career averages which would be above .256. And Swish and Carlos should hit at least .256..so I think our overall average should be at least in the middle of the pack at .265 or higher...we can live with that if we hit homers and walk a bunch.