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View Full Version : Where can we find one more starter?


Lillian
04-11-2008, 12:15 AM
Now that we've had a chance to see what the Sox have, and get some idea of what we might need, what do you all think K.W. should be trying to do to tweak this roster?

My vote is still to try to trade Konerko for another starter. Not only am I worried about Contreras, Danks and Floyd, but I don't know what they would do if one of the starters gets injured. I guess Broadway would get the nod.

This team looks like it is going to have plenty of offense, and balance between right and lefthanded hitters. With Swisher able to take over First for Paulie, and Quentin, Anderson or Owens capable of filling the Left and Center positions, Paulie is the most expendable trading chip they have.
They could try to sign Crede with the money saved from Konerko's contract, and if that fails, Fields is ready to take over at Third next year. They could even bring Fields up to play First, as many here have suggested, in the event that Swisher needs to return to the outfield, in order to replace an injured, or poorly performing outfielder.

So what starter is possibly available from another team, looking for a power, run producing bat? The Angels were the most logical fit before Escobar and Lackey went on the DL. Perhaps later when they return, they could still be a trading partner.

It looks like this Sox team has the personnel to be a serious playoff contender, if they can solidify the rotation. It would be a shame to fail for want of another starter, now that the bullpen seems to have been fortified.
So what do you guys think?

DumpJerry
04-11-2008, 12:19 AM
When I saw the title of this thread, this is what came to mind.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/Automobile_starter.JPG/800px-Automobile_starter.JPG (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/Automobile_starter.JPG)
PepBoys or Murray's are two places which come to mind as far as where we can get a starter.

oeo
04-11-2008, 12:21 AM
1)It's still too early to tell if we really do need rotation help. Out of our 3 question marks in the rotation, only Contreras **** the bed in his first start. Danks was less than stellar in his second, but it could have just been a bad day.

2)It's still too early to even make a deal. Everyone is still in it right now, no one is going to trade anything. We'll have to wait until at least June before any deal to help the team can be made unless we're willing to vastly overpay.

So let's wait. I still don't know what to expect this year, not only from the Sox, but the division. The Royals are pitching out of their minds right now, the Tigers are 1-8, and the Indians are struggling. Everything is a little crazy to say the least. :nuts:

Lillian
04-11-2008, 05:35 AM
Maybe the Sox are planning to just see where they are around June, and try to sign Freddy Garcia then, if they need him. They do probably still have an inside track to acquire him, given his relationship with Ozzie.

Within the organization, who do you suppose is in line to be called up if a replacement is needed for the rotation?
Would the list look like this, in order of preference?
1) Broadway
2) Egbert (when he completes a rehab)
3) Carrasco

white sox bill
04-11-2008, 07:14 AM
Maybe the Sox are planning to just see where they are around June, and try to sign Freddy Garcia then, if they need him. They do probably still have an inside track to acquire him, given his relationship with Ozzie.

Within the organization, who do you suppose is in line to be called up if a replacement is needed for the rotation?
Would the list look like this, in order of preference?
1) Broadway
2) Egbert (when he completes a rehab)
3) Carrasco

Always like Freddy but he appears to have his better days behind him. IIRC he's hurt until the All Star break if not more. If we could sign him cheap w/incentives, yes but don;t expect the same Freddy from 5 yrs ago when he was at the top of his game. I wonder how Bartolo is doing?

oeo
04-11-2008, 07:42 AM
Always like Freddy but he appears to have his better days behind him. IIRC he's hurt until the All Star break if not more. If we could sign him cheap w/incentives, yes but don;t expect the same Freddy from 5 yrs ago when he was at the top of his game. I wonder how Bartolo is doing?

Last I heard, he's on the DL.

white sox bill
04-11-2008, 09:43 AM
Last I heard, he's on the DL.
Would that be Bart or Freddy? I thought Freddy was still a FA

Rocky Soprano
04-11-2008, 09:46 AM
Freddy is a FA but he is hurt.
Bart is in the Red Sox minor league system.

hi im skot
04-11-2008, 09:55 AM
Blow it up, Kenny!

soxfan13
04-11-2008, 10:05 AM
I heard the Starter Store has some great deals:tongue:

skottyj242
04-11-2008, 10:10 AM
What about Steve Stone?

jabrch
04-11-2008, 10:10 AM
1) Teams won't trade #2 or better SPs in April.

2) No team who would do that should have a gaping hole at 1B/DH where they'd do that.

3) I don't want to pull the plug on any of our starters after their 1st or 2nd trip throuh the rotation - certainly since Danks and Floyd looked good in their 1st go arounds and it is way to early to give up on Contreras.

Iwritecode
04-11-2008, 10:44 AM
When I saw the title of this thread, this is what came to mind.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/Automobile_starter.JPG/800px-Automobile_starter.JPG (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/Automobile_starter.JPG)
PepBoys or Murray's are two places which come to mind as far as where we can get a starter.

:hijacked:

I pulled the starter off my suburban this weekend because I thought it was bad. The engine wouldn't turn over. There was just a clicking sound. I tried jumping it but that didn't seem to work. So pulled it off, checked it out and it was working fine. I was the battery. :redface:

I was really, really dead.

Lillian
04-11-2008, 10:48 AM
I'm not suggesting that we should, or could find a #2 starter. Although I didn't specifiy which number in the rotation the Sox should be trying to bolster, my stated concern over Contreras, Danks and Floyd, infers the third, fourth and fifth starters. As I said, poor performance among one or more of those three, or an injury to any of our 5 starters would be especially problematic for the Sox because I don't see that there is anyone ready to step in. Isn't it reasonable to discuss planning for that eventuality? Isn't it also reasonable to suggest that there might be a team with a #3, 4 or 5 starter out there who would be willing to trade for a player of Konerko's caliber? If so, then which team, and what pitcher?

Jurr
04-11-2008, 10:48 AM
1) Teams won't trade #2 or better SPs in April.

2) No team who would do that should have a gaping hole at 1B/DH where they'd do that.

3) I don't want to pull the plug on any of our starters after their 1st or 2nd trip throuh the rotation - certainly since Danks and Floyd looked good in their 1st go arounds and it is way to early to give up on Contreras.
Exactly. No pitcher can accurately predict what kind of location/stuff/grip they're going to have in April, where the weather is so goofy and the humidity (or precip) is just all across the board.

When we start moving closer to the summer, we should begin to see pitchers settling in to what they really have. This first month is just so hit or miss as far as pitching goes. Give it time.

The only thing I could accurately say about the rotation right now is that Contreras would be better served to pick up his pace a little. That's about all I can gather this early.

kittle42
04-11-2008, 11:51 AM
After some thought...

:threadsucks

jabrch
04-11-2008, 12:11 PM
I'm not suggesting that we should, or could find a #2 starter. Although I didn't specifiy which number in the rotation the Sox should be trying to bolster, my stated concern over Contreras, Danks and Floyd, infers the third, fourth and fifth starters. As I said, poor performance among one or more of those three, or an injury to any of our 5 starters would be especially problematic for the Sox because I don't see that there is anyone ready to step in. Isn't it reasonable to discuss planning for that eventuality? Isn't it also reasonable to suggest that there might be a team with a #3, 4 or 5 starter out there who would be willing to trade for a player of Konerko's caliber? If so, then which team, and what pitcher?

If you'd trade Paul Konerko with a cheap contract for a #3, #4 or #5 starter, we'd have teams coming out of the woodwork. And we'd be a worse ball club because of it. We have adequate #3-#5 starters and options. You don't trade your starting 1B, signed cheaply, for a back of the rotation starter. But if you want to list the, you can list nearly every single team in baseball and their #4 and #5 starters who they'd HAPPILY trade for Konerko. The premise of trading PK for a back of the rotation guy is outragoeus.

sox1970
04-11-2008, 12:18 PM
Peter Gammons brought up something on Mike & Mike this morning that I agree with. It's not going to take 95 wins to make the playoffs this year because the Rays and Royals are much better teams, and quite possibly the teams that were considered odds-on favorites to make the playoffs have a lot of pitching injuries.

So, to the point of the Sox starting pitching--be happy the Sox have five healthy starting pitchers and see how they do for a couple months before thinking about making a trade, because it may only take 90-92 games this year.

oeo
04-11-2008, 12:22 PM
The only way I see getting any sort of rotation help (and I mean a top of the rotation guy...why add another crap pitcher?), is by moving Fields. The only time I would support such a move is if a)We have a realistic shot in July to go to the postseason and win the World Series and b)Crede is healthy, still playing well, and we can lock him up.

Of course that's a risky move. You have to have Crede locked up beforehand, and know for sure that you have a chance at winning this thing. Otherwise, trading Fields would be a stupid move.

Uncle_Patrick
04-11-2008, 12:29 PM
What about Steve Stone?

That guy already has a job. I think Tom Seaver might be free, though.

I_Liked_Manuel
04-11-2008, 12:30 PM
let's be honest about this - right now we have a #2, a #3, and three #5 starters. it's going to take a bit more than adding a pitcher to make this a playoff team.

balke
04-11-2008, 12:59 PM
I don't think a starter would pop up until the deadline for availability. Just to humor the thread though:

If the Sox need someone and the other teams are looking like they can't compete I can see some of the following available:

Brett Myers - Phils
Jason Schmidt - Dodgers (possibly Lowe or Penny as well).
Ben Sheets (MAYBE) - free agency coming but that'd come with a hefty price tag and I doubt Milwaukee let's him go.
Mark Mulder
Burnett - can opt out next season
Randy Wolf

Those are guys I see other teams shopping for the right price. IMO the Dodgers will trade one pitcher this season regardless.

doublem23
04-11-2008, 01:01 PM
I bet somewhere, Ken Hill is available.

palehozenychicty
04-11-2008, 01:08 PM
I bet somewhere, Ken Hill is available.

:rolling:

Oh wow, he was horrible. :o:

TomBradley72
04-11-2008, 01:36 PM
I bet somewhere, Ken Hill is available.

What about Dave Stieb?

russ99
04-11-2008, 01:54 PM
Even the top contenders are short a starter this season. We'll give what we have a shot before dealing.

oeo
04-11-2008, 02:07 PM
let's be honest about this - right now we have a #2, a #3, and three #5 starters. it's going to take a bit more than adding a pitcher to make this a playoff team.

Both Buehrle and Javy can pitch with the best in the league...that makes them #1 and #2 starters. If you have the ability to beat an ace, then you are an ace. Enough of this crap about what they throw, how hard they throw, etc. If you can pitch with the best, then you are one of the best.

Maybe they won't win Cy Youngs, but the Ws are what matter.

getonbckthr
04-11-2008, 02:15 PM
Looking at Depth Charts around the league here is a list of potential targets. Let it be noted that there is maybe a couple guys on the list that would be better than what we have.
Josh Fogg, Steve Trashcel, Daniel Caberera, Rich Harden, Joe Blanton, Kevin Millwood, Vincente Padilla, Jason Jennings, Zito (not a fricken chance), Matt Morris, Zach Duke, Kyle Lohse, Brandon Backe, Shawn Chacon, Odalis Perez, Estaban Loiza, Jason Schmidt

I_Liked_Manuel
04-11-2008, 02:18 PM
Both Buehrle and Javy can pitch with the best in the league...that makes them #1 and #2 starters. If you have the ability to beat an ace, then you are an ace. Enough of this crap about what they throw, how hard they throw, etc. If you can pitch with the best, then you are one of the best.

Maybe they won't win Cy Youngs, but the Ws are what matter.

i'm not sure your definition of an ace is one that i agree with. i think that both vazquez and buehrle are fine pitchers, but i think a true ace has stuff that is just nasty on most days. i dont think that half of the teams in baseball have a true 'ace' to fall back on. buehrle's a great #2 starter, but i've seen him toss batting practice a few too many times to think that he's a true ace/anchor on a playoff team. vazquez has ace 'stuff' - but the mental midget inside of him prevents him from becoming that ace. if anything, we can call them both #2 starters. the only guy that we've had over the past decade or so that has pitched like a legitimate 'ace' was contreras when he was on his run.

CWSpalehoseCWS
04-11-2008, 02:35 PM
Freddy is a FA but he is hurt.
Bart is in the Red Sox minor league system.

Bart is hurt too. He was put on the minor league D.L.

Noneck
04-11-2008, 03:28 PM
If the situation arose that, the Sox show they are a legit contender and one or more of the #3, 4, or 5 go south, trading PK for a #3 that was affordable and had a couple years left on his contract wouldn't be a bad move. The most difficult aspect of this trade would be that PK will have a no trade clause prior to the time that teams would be willing to trade a #3 pitcher.

Finally, PK is not worth and will never be worth more than a #3 starter.

Lillian
04-12-2008, 09:44 AM
Well, thanks for the responses. Some of you seem to think that P.K. "will never be worth a #3 starter", while others say that to trade him for back of the rotation starter is "outrageous". I suppose it depends upon how good that #3 or #4 starter is. The Angels have 5 starters, from which you could consider accepting even someone from the back end of the rotation. Even the #6 guy, Adenhart, wouldn't be a bad deal, IMO. I guess you could even add a #7, if you include Moseley.
Isn't it pretty hard to simply categorize a guy as a #1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 based solely upon his ranking on his particular team?

My concern is that I just think the Sox have too many question marks among their 3-5 starters, and few alternatives within the organization. If that is true, and they do have some good depth at various other positions, it seems logical to me that K.W. should be trying to make a trade for another decent starter.

It is nice to see that Broadway had another pretty good outing last night.
He and Egbert are really about the only two feasible choices to replace one of our starters, in the event of injury or unacceptable performance.

Lillian
04-12-2008, 10:11 AM
In rethinking my last post, the Angels probably have 8 potential starters.
Weaver
Escobar
Lackey
Garland
Santana
Saunders
Moseley
Adenhart

Of course Adenhart is in the minors, and Escobar and Lackey are still on the DL. I hope that Kotchman struggles, and they feel the need for more offense. I think that it's pretty well established that the Angels have coveted Konerko, and they still look like our best source for pitching help.

santo=dorf
04-12-2008, 10:21 AM
How about we trade Cabrera for Garland move Uribe back to short?

tick53
04-12-2008, 10:34 AM
When I saw the title of this thread, this is what came to mind.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/Automobile_starter.JPG/800px-Automobile_starter.JPG (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/Automobile_starter.JPG)
PepBoys or Murray's are two places which come to mind as far as where we can get a starter.

That's from a General Motors vehicle!! :smile:

Lillian
04-12-2008, 10:38 AM
How about we trade Cabrera for Garland move Uribe back to short?

I think you're half right.
If we had known about Ramirez, I doubt that we would have made that trade for Cabrera. I would have loved this team with Alexi at SS, and Garland in our starting rotation. And then, we wouldn't need to be even thinking about trading Paulie.

balke
04-12-2008, 04:04 PM
In rethinking my last post, the Angels probably have 8 potential starters.
Weaver
Escobar
Lackey
Garland
Santana
Saunders
Moseley
Adenhart

Of course Adenhart is in the minors, and Escobar and Lackey are still on the DL. I hope that Kotchman struggles, and they feel the need for more offense. I think that it's pretty well established that the Angels have coveted Konerko, and they still look like our best source for pitching help.


Escobar's injury has been rumored to be career ending.

I think the starting pitching looks okay so far. Let's revisit in 2 months.

Brian26
04-12-2008, 04:44 PM
In rethinking my last post, the Angels probably have 8 potential starters.
Weaver
Escobar
Lackey
Garland
Santana
Saunders
Moseley
Adenhart

Of course Adenhart is in the minors, and Escobar and Lackey are still on the DL. I hope that Kotchman struggles, and they feel the need for more offense. I think that it's pretty well established that the Angels have coveted Konerko, and they still look like our best source for pitching help.

My only problem with this entire trade concept is that you'd effectively be trading Paul Konerko for one year of Orlando Cabrera, which is insane.

Vernam
04-12-2008, 05:29 PM
My only problem with this entire trade concept is that you'd effectively be trading Paul Konerko for one year of Orlando Cabrera, which is insane.And how long 'til Paulie's NTC kicks in? It's a pretty narrow window that's open, I think.

It would be nice if Danks and Floyd show enough so the starter we're looking to replace in July is Contreras. If Contreras shows enough that we're not looking to replace a starter, then this could be a memorable year. If either Danks or Floyd pitches poorly enough to be pulled from the rotation, we're probably ****ed. So far, so good, though . . .

Vernam

NADA SURF
04-13-2008, 06:50 AM
I'd say keep the rotation how it is especially after the way Contreras and Floyd looked their last times out. However, Broadway appears ready to me.

NADA SURF
04-13-2008, 06:58 AM
Well, thanks for the responses. Some of you seem to think that P.K. "will never be worth a #3 starter", while others say that to trade him for back of the rotation starter is "outrageous". I suppose it depends upon how good that #3 or #4 starter is. The Angels have 5 starters, from which you could consider accepting even someone from the back end of the rotation. Even the #6 guy, Adenhart, wouldn't be a bad deal, IMO. I guess you could even add a #7, if you include Moseley.
Isn't it pretty hard to simply categorize a guy as a #1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 based solely upon his ranking on his particular team?

My concern is that I just think the Sox have too many question marks among their 3-5 starters, and few alternatives within the organization. If that is true, and they do have some good depth at various other positions, it seems logical to me that K.W. should be trying to make a trade for another decent starter.

It is nice to see that Broadway had another pretty good outing last night.
He and Egbert are really about the only two feasible choices to replace one of our starters, in the event of injury or unacceptable performance.

Unless they have a change of heart, the Angels have no interest in Konerko anymore because they are high on Kotchman and Kendry Morales...Also, they would NEVER give up Adenhart for Konerko...However, they are going through hell with Figgins at third which leads me to believe that they could have interest in Fields if he was offered to them and then possibly have a shot at Adenhart, but they are enormously high on Adenhart as they should be.
Saunders is quite good and could be had.

Lillian
04-14-2008, 06:35 AM
let's be honest about this - right now we have a #2, a #3, and three #5 starters. it's going to take a bit more than adding a pitcher to make this a playoff team.

I have to challenge this statement. Don't you think that Javy could be considered a legitimate #1? He has the stuff, and last year he was very dominating.

As far as the rest of the staff, according to Ozzie and Coop, Floyd may have the best stuff, but whether or not he is able to realize his potential and become a #1 or #2 starter is the big question. He certainly looks like he will be an adequate back of the rotation guy.

To me, Danks and Buerhle are pretty much the same pitcher. It can't be a bad thing for a staff to have two effective Lefties.

Contreras is still the biggest question mark on the staff. It would be wonderful if we only had to depend upon him as the #5, but that will depend upon how well the kids do.

Again, my biggest concern is an injury. We just don't have anyone ready to step in.

soltrain21
04-14-2008, 10:28 AM
I think you're half right.
If we had known about Ramirez, I doubt that we would have made that trade for Cabrera. I would have loved this team with Alexi at SS, and Garland in our starting rotation. And then, we wouldn't need to be even thinking about trading Paulie.

Alexi our everyday shortstop? No thank you. The team is fine the way it is, and it is way to early to see what needs to be adjusted.

Jurr
04-14-2008, 12:42 PM
I want you to look at Broadway's stat line so far this year. See what you think.