PDA

View Full Version : Dye thinks this squad is better than 2005's


oeo
04-07-2008, 11:19 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cubicle/cs-080407-nick-swisher-leadoff-chicago-white-sox,1,2858616.story

Big words so early...

Cuck the Fubs
04-07-2008, 11:27 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cubicle/cs-080407-nick-swisher-leadoff-chicago-white-sox,1,2858616.story

Big words so early...

I love it.........

Show the swagger JD :D:

jabrch
04-07-2008, 11:28 PM
You can argue that the 08 offense is better... Certainly after Frank went down. The pitching - that's still the big question.

HomeFish
04-07-2008, 11:28 PM
Dye sounds like he might be a regular poster at WSI.

Reality Check: it's April 7.

NardiIsHere
04-07-2008, 11:29 PM
i don't think the pitching this year can compare to 2005...although this team has looked good so far i'm not ready to go that far just yet...

oeo
04-07-2008, 11:30 PM
Dye sounds like he might be a regular poster at WSI.

Reality Check: it's April 7.

HomeFish talking about reality checks...that's a good one.

DumpJerry
04-07-2008, 11:36 PM
The thread title can include my name as well.

This team has more hunger in its eyes than the 2005 team had. The 2005 team came in with no expectations and no experience in holding The Trophy high over their heads.

While there are only a few guys on this team from the '05 team, that hunger persists among those who were with us in '05 and '06. I think also the cluster**** that was 2007 has caused a bunch of the guys to prove the world wrong in its assessment of the team.

This year's team could probably out-hit the 2005 team, a team that had nobody above .300 except Joe Borchard (5 for 12). This team looks like it will terrorize pitching all over the league.

Another thing I've been telling people since Sunday night's game: some of the experts say it will take 95+ wins to capture the ALC title. That means a team can lose only 65 games or so to remain in contention. The Tigers have lost almost 10% of the allotment of losses for the entire season in the first week alone (if they lose Tuesday in Fenway, it is easy to say they have lost 10% of the games they can afford to lose all season). That is a mighty deep hole they are digging themselves!

oeo
04-07-2008, 11:39 PM
The thread title can include my name as well.

This team has more hunger in its eyes than the 2005 team had. The 2005 team came in with no expectations and no experience in holding The Trophy high over their heads.

While there are only a few guys on this team from the '05 team, that hunger persists among those who were with us in '05 and '06. I think also the cluster**** that was 2007 has caused a bunch of the guys to prove the world wrong in its assessment of the team.

This year's team could probably out-hit the 2005 team, a team that had nobody above .300 except Joe Borchard (5 for 12). This team looks like it will terrorize pitching all over the league.

Another thing I've been telling people since Sunday night's game: some of the experts say it will take 95+ wins to capture the ALC title. That means a team can lose only 65 games or so to remain in contention. The Tigers have lost almost 10% of the allotment of losses for the entire season in the first week alone (if they lose Tuesday in Fenway, it is easy to say they have lost 10% of the games they can afford to lose all season). That is a mighty deep hole they are digging themselves!

It remains to be seen what the rotation will look like, though. I never had a doubt that we would score plenty of runs.

Danks and Floyd had good starts to the season, I'd like to see that continue. I'm not worried about the top two, but Contreras needs to be more aggressive...way too much nibbling in his first start. That said, Contreras' stuff looked pretty good. Also, can the bullpen keep it up? We had one of the best bullpens in the league through the first month and half of 2007, and we all know how that turned out.

Things look good overall right now, but I'll wait until at least June before making any major proclamations. I think we're definitely better than the 2007 squad, but I don't think anybody should be booking their trips to the World Series quite yet...there's still a lot be answered.

Viva Medias B's
04-07-2008, 11:41 PM
I don't know about that, but through seven games, this is the best post-2005 Sox team I have seen. Of course, we have 155 games to go so time will tell how good this 2008 squad really is, but I cannot complain about how our first 7 have went.

doublem23
04-07-2008, 11:48 PM
Dye sounds like he might be a regular poster at WSI.

Reality Check: it's April 7.

Definitely, how would Jermaine Dye have any point of reference when he compares what he sees? It's not like he was a member of both those teams. :rolleyes:

While we're all here, can you proclaim the next few starters we're scheduled to face "studs?" Your track record is uncanny.

As for Dye's comments, the bottom line is if the Sox's starting pitching can keep up, there's no one in the division that I would say is clearly better than the Sox. Maybe better, but not head and shoulders.

oeo
04-07-2008, 11:48 PM
I don't know about that, but through seven games, this is the best post-2005 Sox team I have seen. Of course, we have 155 games to go so time will tell how good this 2008 squad really is, but I cannot complain about how our first 7 have went.

Except that they should be 6-1.

HomeFish
04-07-2008, 11:48 PM
The thread title can include my name as well.

This team has more hunger in its eyes than the 2005 team had. The 2005 team came in with no expectations and no experience in holding The Trophy high over their heads.


OK? This team also has a back end of the rotation of Danks, Contreras, and Gavin Floyd. All the hunger in the world won't make up for the fact that this team isn't going to be able to pitch its way out of a wet paper bag.

doublem23
04-07-2008, 11:50 PM
I don't know about that, but through seven games, this is the best post-2005 Sox team I have seen. Of course, we have 155 games to go so time will tell how good this 2008 squad really is, but I cannot complain about how our first 7 have went.

Best Post-2005 Sox team? That's 2 other years. What an endorsement.

Hendu
04-07-2008, 11:51 PM
I love it.........

Show the swagger JD :D:

Agreed. Of course, there are still some question marks, especially when it comes to the youngsters on the pitching staff. It's a long season.

In any case, I love the swagger and optimism.

oeo
04-07-2008, 11:52 PM
OK? This team also has a back end of the rotation of Danks, Contreras, and Gavin Floyd. All the hunger in the world won't make up for the fact that this team isn't going to be able to pitch its way out of a wet paper bag.

HomeFish, how does it feel to be constantly proven wrong? You constantly come out with these bold statements, and I don't think you've been on the money once.

I could go through your post history and pull out some complete laughers.

You know what? HomeFish thinks the pitching staff will be awful, so I suddenly have confidence in it.

It's Time
04-07-2008, 11:57 PM
And where are the "experts" who said the White Sox might only win 50 games? I'll admit I only had them pegged for 80 to 85, but 50?:?:

DumpJerry
04-07-2008, 11:58 PM
OK? This team also has a back end of the rotation of Danks, Contreras, and Gavin Floyd. All the hunger in the world won't make up for the fact that this team isn't going to be able to pitch its way out of a wet paper bag.
News flash: Except for what the media says about the Cubs every year, there has never been a question-free team in MLB. And yet, someone manages to win the World Series each year (and it's never the question-free Cubs. :dunno:).

You're not able to separate the trees from the forest, Home. You are ignoring the spirit of the team and other intangibles which factor into a winning combination more than the raw stats. I remember your pre-season 2005 prediction where you couldn't even state whether the Sox' Bat Boy would replenish the Home Plate Umpire's baseball supply quick enough in your drive to convince the world you might know what you were talking about at the time. I'm sorry that team proved you so wrong, I really have hard time reading your posts and not laughing out loud at your "predictions."

Jjav829
04-08-2008, 12:00 AM
Nice thoughts, but it's been 7 games. When they're holding the trophy in October, we'll compare the two. Until then, not even close.

HomeFish
04-08-2008, 12:01 AM
I predicted 71 wins in 2005, right? I actually had the honor of attending White Sox victory #72 in 2005, and was proven wrong right to my face. :smile:

DumpJerry
04-08-2008, 12:03 AM
Bottom line, the thing this year's team has that the 2005 team needed:

The Beards!

Don't underestimate the Power of The Beards!

Javy needs one.

Noneck
04-08-2008, 12:04 AM
And where are the "experts" who said the White Sox might only win 50 games? I'll admit I only had them pegged for 80 to 85, but 50?:?:
That's 50-112. Which would be the most losses in Sox history and the 2nd least wins. Hard to believe people said that.

spiffie
04-08-2008, 12:04 AM
And where are the "experts" who said the White Sox might only win 50 games? I'll admit I only had them pegged for 80 to 85, but 50?:?:
Okay, if you can find anyone who could even be remotely considered an expert who predicted the White Sox to be one of the worst teams in baseball history, and go 50-112, I will mail you a dollar.

Elephant
04-08-2008, 12:15 AM
Offensively, yes. But that doesn't take much.

THe 05 staff was pretty much solid 1 through 11. Marte was the token guy we'd get all nervous about and he had a 3.77 ERA. Ditto Vizcaino actually. But compare that to last year.

areilly
04-08-2008, 12:17 AM
Okay, if you can find anyone who could even be remotely considered an expert who predicted the White Sox to be one of the worst teams in baseball history, and go 50-112, I will mail you a dollar.

I'll mail another. I think the worst predictions I saw were for the Cardinals at 65.

Fifty games? I doubt even the most conspiracy-minded among us would read that between the lines of even the Tribune.

ilsox7
04-08-2008, 12:25 AM
Offensively, yes. But that doesn't take much.

THe 05 staff was pretty much solid 1 through 11. Marte was the token guy we'd get all nervous about and he had a 3.77 ERA. Ditto Vizcaino actually. But compare that to last year.

The 2007 White Sox would lose that comparison.

ksimpson14
04-08-2008, 12:34 AM
The offense is better. The starting pitching probably isn't, but our 1-5 weren't studs every game during the regular season. They were excellent in the playoffs, but had plenty of rough spots during the year. You had coaches/management getting pissed at El Duque, you had McCarthy bail him out (who also got roughed up earlier in the year), took Contreras half a year to get dominant, etc.

I can't judge the bullpen. The bullpen was great in 05, but who expected Cliff Politte to do anything? I liked Cotts, but in the end, he just wasn't good enough to start, thrived in that spot. Marte couldn't pitch at home. Shingo went bye bye, Hermanson went down, and Jenks got called up, and got roughed up against Boston (I remember a lot of fans thinking, how could we trust this guy closing games in the playoffs?!?!). Well now he's a proven closer, and we've got some decent guys down there.

You never know, that's why you play the games. :) It's wayyy early, but it's good to have hope, especially with so many question marks from the 'powerhouses'

thomas35forever
04-08-2008, 12:36 AM
I love Dye's confidence, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. We've got 155 games left. A lot can happen during that period.

Hendu
04-08-2008, 12:46 AM
Offensively, yes. But that doesn't take much.

THe 05 staff was pretty much solid 1 through 11. Marte was the token guy we'd get all nervous about and he had a 3.77 ERA. Ditto Vizcaino actually. But compare that to last year.

How about closer? Sure, we ended up being solid at the position but how many teams switch to new closers twice and have success both times? Starting the year Shingo was a major question mark, and the last switch to a AA kid was an even bigger one. We're way more set at that position in 2008.

pudge
04-08-2008, 02:40 AM
Nice thoughts, but it's been 7 games. When they're holding the trophy in October, we'll compare the two. Until then, not even close.

Best post in this thread.

kittle42
04-08-2008, 02:51 AM
And what exactly does this prove? Other than you called the first 71 wins.

I think he was saying sometimes his pessimism is wrong.

IlliniSox4Life
04-08-2008, 03:23 AM
Dye has every right to think that.

Heck, what is he supposed to be doing, sitting around thinking how much worse this squad is than 05?

fquaye149
04-08-2008, 08:17 AM
The thread title can include my name as well.

This team has more hunger in its eyes than the 2005 team had. The 2005 team came in with no expectations and no experience in holding The Trophy high over their heads.

Revisionist history at its best

fquaye149
04-08-2008, 08:18 AM
The 2007 White Sox would lose that comparison.

:o:

RedHeadPaleHoser
04-08-2008, 08:20 AM
Dye has every right to think that.

Heck, what is he supposed to be doing, sitting around thinking how much worse this squad is than 05?

Nothing wrong with his feeling the team is better.....I'd would much rather that then him shrugging his shoulders. Yes it's early, but I would rather this mindset now while they can control it as opposed to having a "good" attitude after the season slips away from them like it did last year.

fquaye149
04-08-2008, 08:22 AM
JD is 100% right if he's talking about our lineup. He may even be right if he's talking about our defense.

Our pitching? Well....I guess time will tell, but smart money's on no....

MsSoxVixen22
04-08-2008, 09:20 AM
I too think this team is better than '05. The guys, at least so far, are playing w/that intensity and the fire that they want to win! They have a bunch of guys who play well to together and have good chemistry. If I were Ozzie, I wouldn't tweak the lineup too much. Swisher and Quentin have been big upgrades to this team. Swisher has so much energy and a want to win and I love his intensity! It seems like it's "rubbing off" on the rest of the team. The pitching is coming around. Javy was a little shaky but he settled down. To me, that's a sign of a good pitcher. You're going to have your shaking innings/outings but if you can get out of them, I think that counts for something. The biggest question mark we have right now is Contreras. He needs to have a good outing. But with the guys swinging the bats the way they are, we're able to come from behind and take the lead

ChiTownTrojan
04-08-2008, 09:30 AM
The 2007 White Sox would lose that comparison.
I think I would take this year's staff over last year's. That bullpen was just god-awful, and this year (so far) it seems like we've fixed that weakness. Garland is just an average pitcher (who by the way got roughed up the other day). I think unless he falls flat on his face, Floyd can come close enough to his numbers that the difference in the bullpens puts the 2008 staff over 2007.

voodoochile
04-08-2008, 09:46 AM
Nothing wrong with his feeling the team is better.....I'd would much rather that then him shrugging his shoulders. Yes it's early, but I would rather this mindset now while they can control it as opposed to having a "good" attitude after the season slips away from them like it did last year.

I too think this team is better than '05. The guys, at least so far, are playing w/that intensity and the fire that they want to win! They have a bunch of guys who play well to together and have good chemistry. If I were Ozzie, I wouldn't tweak the lineup too much. Swisher and Quentin have been big upgrades to this team. Swisher has so much energy and a want to win and I love his intensity! It seems like it's "rubbing off" on the rest of the team. The pitching is coming around. Javy was a little shaky but he settled down. To me, that's a sign of a good pitcher. You're going to have your shaking innings/outings but if you can get out of them, I think that counts for something. The biggest question mark we have right now is Contreras. He needs to have a good outing. But with the guys swinging the bats the way they are, we're able to come from behind and take the lead

I really think these two posts nailed it. Dye maybe talking about something as cryptic as having fun while playing or belief they will win every game or a better chance to blow the other team out and thus reduce pressure on everyone involved.

Obviously time will tell whether this team will stand up to comparisons with the greatest team any of us ever witnessed in Chicago, but anyone who doesn't read Dye's comments and get excited about the upcoming season needs to rethink their outlook, IMO. This isn't some random shouting head saying this. It's Jermaine Dye. This is as close to straight from the horses mouth as it gets.

fquaye149
04-08-2008, 09:49 AM
I really think these two posts nailed it. Dye maybe talking about something as cryptic as having fun while playing or belief they will win every game or a better chance to blow the other team out and thus reduce pressure on everyone involved.

Obviously time will tell whether this team will stand up to comparisons with the greatest team any of us ever witnessed in Chicago, but anyone who doesn't read Dye's comments and get excited about the upcoming season needs to rethink their outlook, IMO. This isn't some random shouting head saying this. It's Jermaine Dye. This is as close to straight from the horses mouth as it gets.

That is in fact why they play the games!:redneck

balke
04-08-2008, 09:52 AM
If the pitching staff holds together, this is like 2004's hitting squad (maybe even better) with a #5 starter and a better bullpen. That would make it the best Sox team I've seen.

Swisher
Cabrera
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Pierzynski
Crede
Quentin
Uribe

Alomar
Rowand
Thomas
Maggs
CLee
Konerko
Valentin
Crede
Olivo


Note: 2004's was probably better, but Maggs went down early.

Hokiesox
04-08-2008, 10:28 AM
I still can't help but think we're one starter going down to injury from last place. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving this team, but the roster is thin.

soxinem1
04-08-2008, 10:39 AM
Except that they should be 6-1.

I was thinking the same thing.

In my life, I have had that 'feeling' about certain teams.

1977, 1982, 1983, 1990, 1993, 1994, 1996, 2000, 2003, 2005, and now 2008.

All of those teams were solid contenders, four went to the post-season, and the others just missed.

There are certain things about this team I would change, but I felt the same about the other teams I mentioned too.

But it does look like this team has the swagger, demeanor, and strength we waited to get from the 2006 White Sox.

slowlearner
04-08-2008, 10:48 AM
I still can't help but think we're one starter going down to injury from last place. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving this team, but the roster is thin.

I agree, but I think the vast majority of teams in MLB are pitching thin, and would suffer a similar decline if a key starter goes down. Granted, not all teams would fall to last place, but I honestly can't think of a single team that could lose a starter and completely absorb it. Just look at the concern surrounding the Mets after losing Pedro.

That's why a good portion of any successful season comes down to pure, unadulterated luck.

TomBradley72
04-08-2008, 10:49 AM
104 more wins...then he'll be right.

Lots to like about this roster...the 2005 team was really good at "staying healthy". This team will need to be just as good in that area...especially the pitching staff, otherwise we'll fade like alot of good WSox teams that were impacted by injuries.

Hokiesox
04-08-2008, 11:06 AM
It's like strapping a hang glider to your back and running towards the cliff. If all the suspension cables and harnesses work, you take off. If they don't, and a key player gets injured, you nose dive. That's how I'm feeling, excited about running towards the cliff hoping my glider holds.

balke
04-08-2008, 11:06 AM
I still can't help but think we're one starter going down to injury from last place. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving this team, but the roster is thin.


I think the opposite. If an outfielder goes down, you have Jerry Owens and Brian Anderson waiting. Anderson had a big Spring, Owens can lead off.

If SS goes down, Ramirez and Uribe are there. If Uribe goes down there 4 other 2Bman waiting who should be good enough, starting with Richar.

If PK goes down, Swish moves to 1B and Owens or Anderson play.

Fields comes up for Crede if he goes down.

If AJ goes down, the Sox have a couple good catchers in the minors. But they could also trade for someone.

If one starter goes down, there's Masset and Ohka are hanging around to fill in a roster spot.

If a reliever goes down, the Sox are pretty deep.

Sox look good depth wise.

TomBradley72
04-08-2008, 11:11 AM
If AJ goes down, the Sox have a couple good catchers in the minors. But they could also trade for someone.

If one starter goes down, there's Masset and Ohka are hanging around to fill in a roster spot.

If a reliever goes down, the Sox are pretty deep.



We would be in big trouble if AJ goes down, and we don't really have any trade bait to get a replacement.

Masset and Ohka would be pretty ugly in the 5th spot.

After Wassermann, we have nothing in the system to help our bullpen.

the1tab
04-08-2008, 11:27 AM
One of the other big things I think this team has that 2005 had was a lack of baggage to bring to the ballpark every day. Last year, there was Uribe killing people, Crede's back, Buehrle getting traded vs getting paid, Dye's extension talk, more Buehrle, nobody hitting, Thome trying to get to 500 HRs (any milestone is baggage)...

This year, almost everyone is under contract, most of the position battles are settled (I would hope yesterday bought Crede some time), and the new faces are producing as well/better than expected. Being able to show up, play ball and have fun is a HUGE factor in winning...

We have great depth at most positions and we're smiling. I like it.

ChiSox36
04-08-2008, 11:36 AM
Good points by a lot of people. The thing I like the most is the confidence. That can go a long way. They are not flat like last year, and are playing with more emotion that is not fueled by frustration.

As pointed out before, this team looks good, but until this team makes the playoffs and makes some noise, it can't be compared.

balke
04-08-2008, 11:53 AM
We would be in big trouble if AJ goes down, and we don't really have any trade bait to get a replacement.

Masset and Ohka would be pretty ugly in the 5th spot.

After Wassermann, we have nothing in the system to help our bullpen.

I disagree completely. But that's your opinion. Masset looks much better this season, and Ohka as a 5th starter would be fine. Ohka could come in as reliever as could Wasserman. There's also Broadway and Haeger in the system in case of emergency.

Jurr
04-08-2008, 12:14 PM
One of the other big things I think this team has that 2005 had was a lack of baggage to bring to the ballpark every day. Last year, there was Uribe killing people, Crede's back, Buehrle getting traded vs getting paid, Dye's extension talk, more Buehrle, nobody hitting, Thome trying to get to 500 HRs (any milestone is baggage)...

This year, almost everyone is under contract, most of the position battles are settled (I would hope yesterday bought Crede some time), and the new faces are producing as well/better than expected. Being able to show up, play ball and have fun is a HUGE factor in winning...

We have great depth at most positions and we're smiling. I like it.
No baggage?
Dye was left for dead, as was Carl Everett. Injuries had relegated them to also-ran status.
Pierzynski was a man without a home because of the damning statements made about him in San Fran.
Rowand, Crede, and Garland had been tabbed as outright busts.
El Duque was tabbed as a labrum tear waiting to happen, and Contreras was nothing but a Yankees castoff that hadn't lived up to the hype.
Hell, even Pods was coming off of a bad sophomore season, where everyone was tabbing him as a one year wonder.

Yup...there was nothing going on with the Sox.

oeo
04-08-2008, 12:17 PM
104 more wins...then he'll be right.

Lots to like about this roster...the 2005 team was really good at "staying healthy". This team will need to be just as good in that area...especially the pitching staff, otherwise we'll fade like alot of good WSox teams that were impacted by injuries.

The pitching staff, of course. We can't afford to lose a starter for an extended amount of time.

OTOH, I think one of this team's strengths is its depth everywhere else. We're a lot deeper now than in 2005...except in the rotation. We have a starting 3B in AAA, a SS at 2B, a SS/2B/CF on the bench, one of the best defensive outfielders on the bench, a guy that can play all the outfield positions + 1B, a 2B on the DL....

The only position we really can't afford an injury at is C...AJ has to stay healthy and strong all year, or we're trouble.