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View Full Version : A former SS Playing 2B: Uribe's Defense @ 2B


Thome25
04-07-2008, 09:21 AM
I have to say I was proud of Uribe's defense and I was SHOCKED to see Joe Morgan's compliments about Uribe during Sunday night's game.

I especially loved the comment about Uribe's "shortstop arm" gunning down Santiago at 3B.

I'd have to say that when I see plays like that it makes me think the Sox are pretty damn smart for starting a SS at 2B. I was worried about it to start the season but, so far ( I know, it's early) it's working.

Morgan said that a regular second baseman doesn't make that play. He said the reason he made that play is because he was a former SS. And I think he's on to something here.

I never thought I'd agree with anything Morgan says because normall I see him as an arrogant, self serving, ass-hat.

So far, it has helped the Sox (for one game at least.) that their 2B is a former SS. That was evidenced by Uribe gunning down Santiago and his catch on Sheffield in the same inning.

What do you do when Richar comes back? I think I'd put up with Uribe's up and down offense if he keeps playing defense like this.

What do you think about our former SS now playing 2B? What do you think about Morgan's comments?

I'd have to say I have a nice big bowl of crow in front of me. I'm not eating it yet until we see the rest of the season play out but, right now I like what I see out of his defense.

ChiTownTrojan
04-07-2008, 09:30 AM
Uribe looks great at 2B, that relay through to third was just one example. Morgan pointed out that it wasn't just the throw (which was a rocket), it was how quickly he got rid of the ball due to the way he had his body positioned. It's definitely a niced luxury, and probably saved us a run last night.

That being said, if we're approaching the trade deadline and Richar is looking good at AAA, I don't mind seeing what we can get for Uribe, regardless of whether or not we're in contention. Some team might be willing to overpay for a guy that can play both SS and 2B. Richar also has a strong arm for a 2B.

Frontman
04-07-2008, 09:32 AM
There will be moments we'll regret the move of Uribe to 2nd (as he was a very solid ss) but he's shown he can handle the position.

Between his gunning down the relay and Quentin's long bomb from deep left? I was impressed with the Sox awareness of base runners.

As some grinder once said, "We've got to play some fundemenatlly sound baseball here."

And they are.

doublem23
04-07-2008, 09:34 AM
Despite all of Uribe's problems, he's always had a great arm. I can't remember any 2B the Sox have had in my lifetime that would have been able to make that play. Santiago was out at 3B by a good 5 feet.

skobabe8
04-07-2008, 09:40 AM
Uribe is no stranger to 2B.

pdimas
04-07-2008, 09:43 AM
Uribe is no stranger to 2B.

His first year with the Sox he played 77 games there.

TomBradley72
04-07-2008, 09:49 AM
My opinion is completely based on a "win it this year" philosophy.

I like Uribe at 2B...should give us good defense, a great arm and a veteran presence who has performed under the pressure of a pennant race and the post season. I also think he'll continue to get better as he "settles in" and develops experience with Cabrera. He will continue to frustrate at the plate with a low batting average and OBP with occasional power. But if he puts up .250-25-75....that's pretty good production out of the 2B position. With the line up we have this year(more OBP guys like Swisher and Cabrera)...I think we can afford to have a guy like that in there. He'll be a FA at the end of this year...so I think we'll get a "motivated" version of Uribe this year.

I like Richar for the long run...but for the 2008 pennant race...I'll take Uribe.

cws05champ
04-07-2008, 09:49 AM
Despite all of Uribe's problems, he's always had a great arm. I can't remember any 2B the Sox have had in my lifetime that would have been able to make that play. Santiago was out at 3B by a good 5 feet.
I'm not saying Iguchi had as good an arm as Uribe, but Iguchi made that same play in game 3 of the ALCS when Erstad went for 3B on a rope down the RF line. To say no 2B could make that same play is a falacy.

That being said, Uribe made several nice plays and DP turns in the game last night and has impressed me over the last few games.

btrain929
04-07-2008, 10:06 AM
Uribe = good defense. We all know that.

But........how 'bout that batting average?

doublem23
04-07-2008, 10:28 AM
I'm not saying Iguchi had as good an arm as Uribe, but Iguchi made that same play in game 3 of the ALCS when Erstad went for 3B on a rope down the RF line. To say no 2B could make that same play is a falacy.

That being said, Uribe made several nice plays and DP turns in the game last night and has impressed me over the last few games.

Erstad also runs like a broken down guy in his mid-30's. Obviously, Uribe isn't the only 2B in the history of the game whose made a sharp relay to nail a guy trying to stretch a double into a triple, but Santiago is very quick and he was out by a good margin. Considering the Sox have trotted out noodle-arms at 2B like Ray Durham, D'Angelo Jimenez, and Willie Harris for the last 10 years, I feel pretty comfortable in saying that none of them would have gotten that out at 3B yesterday.

Milkman43
04-07-2008, 10:44 AM
The tandem of Cabrera and Uribe up the middle is one of the best in baseball. Juan is one of the most under appreciated fielders in the game.

Irishsox1
04-07-2008, 10:49 AM
When I saw Don Cooper this off season at a baseball seminar, he talked about the defense in the infield needs to get better and that was a big reason Iguchi was traded. I guess the Sox feel that Uribe's defense at second is worth it, even with the low batting average.

jabrch
04-07-2008, 10:50 AM
The tandem of Cabrera and Uribe up the middle is one of the best in baseball. Juan is one of the most under appreciated fielders in the game.

I'll go one step further. I can't (off the top of my head) name a better defensive IF in baseball than Crede, OC, Uribe and PK. I'm sure there are a few - but I can't name any.

Crede (despite yesterday) is a top tier defensive 3B.
OC is certainly in the top 1/4.
Uribe is going to be as good as any 2B defensively.
And Paulie won't hurt you. He makes the plays he needs to make.

Who's got a clearly better defensive IF across the board? Who has a clearly stronger defensive left side? I'm sure there are a few - but just thinking quickly I can't name em... Likely a few are as good - but are any clearly better?

hi im skot
04-07-2008, 10:51 AM
Uribe has a gun.

:tiphat:

Jurr
04-07-2008, 10:55 AM
I'll go one step further. I can't (off the top of my head) name a better defensive IF in baseball than Crede, OC, Uribe and PK. I'm sure there are a few - but I can't name any.

Crede (despite yesterday) is a top tier defensive 3B.
OC is certainly in the top 1/4.
Uribe is going to be as good as any 2B defensively.
And Paulie won't hurt you. He makes the plays he needs to make.

Who's got a clearly better defensive IF across the board? Who has a clearly stronger defensive left side? I'm sure there are a few - but just thinking quickly I can't name em... Likely a few are as good - but are any clearly better?
In the early going, it looked like it was taking Uribe a moment to sync up with Cabrera on double play setups, but the further along they go in the season, the better they'll be.

We know what we're going to get with Uribe. We'll get somewhere in the mid .200's average, 65-75 RBI, and around 20 homers. That's fine for us, especially if the rest of the lineup continues to rake. His defense will be really big for us. If the Sox are winning and Uribe keeps his head in the game, he's going to be dynamite, much like in that one year that we love to talk about.

kitekrazy
04-07-2008, 11:41 AM
Uribe = good defense. We all know that.

But........how 'bout that batting average?

He's a terrible hitter. He needs to work on being a situational hitter. I'd rather have any member of the pitching staff bat with a bases loaded situation than Uribe.

I'm not sure I would get rid of him. You need depth if one of the infielders gets hurt or can be used late in games to help protect a lead.

doublem23
04-07-2008, 11:45 AM
He's a terrible hitter. He needs to work on being a situational hitter. I'd rather have any member of the pitching staff bat with a bases loaded situation than Uribe.

I'm sure that's just hyperbole since Uribe's career numbers with the bases loaded (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6698/situational;_ylt=Al9XbekVJ086kvNWYkTOQUqFCLcF?year =career&type=Batting):

78 AB, 22 H, 4 doubles, 4 triples, and 3 grand slams, and 71 RBIs.

.282/.301/.551

Not that shabby.

btrain929
04-07-2008, 11:46 AM
I'm sure that's just hyperbole since Uribe's career numbers with the bases loaded (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6698/situational;_ylt=Al9XbekVJ086kvNWYkTOQUqFCLcF?year =career&type=Batting):

78 AB, 22 H, 4 doubles, 4 triples, and 3 grand slams, and 71 RBIs.

.282/.301/.551

Not that shabby.

I'd like to see how it breaks down when it's 2005 and earlier vs 06 - current.

FedEx227
04-07-2008, 12:02 PM
I'd like to see how it breaks down when it's 2005 and earlier vs 06 - current.

2004: .556/.600/1.111, 1 HR, 14 RBI, 9 AB

2005: .222/.267/.222, 0 HR, 11 RBI, 9 AB

2006: .235/.211/.529, 1 HR, 13 RBI, 17 AB

2007: .133/.222/.333, 1 HR, 10 RBI, 15 AB

balke
04-07-2008, 12:10 PM
You guys complain about his bat, but support a guy who's done about the same, and in a small sample size. I'll take Uribe's D in the infield over Richar's right now. It won't be a huge trade off if Uribe is traded, but no need to trade him if the Sox are winning with him in the lineup. He's adding range, experience, and his arm defensively.

hi im skot
04-07-2008, 12:17 PM
2004: .556/.600/1.111, 1 HR, 14 RBI, 9 AB

2005: .222/.267/.222, 0 HR, 11 RBI, 9 AB

2006: .235/.211/.529, 1 HR, 13 RBI, 17 AB

2007: .133/.222/.333, 1 HR, 10 RBI, 15 AB

PROFUNDO

goon
04-07-2008, 12:41 PM
I don't think Uribe's bat is going to hurt this offense, at least, it hasn't so far. I say don't change a thing until it stops working.

hawkjt
04-07-2008, 12:57 PM
I am ok with Juan at second but as far as arms go...doesn't Alexi Ramierez have a pretty strong arm also and also plays 2nd base? Now, I do not know about accuracy as that was a spot on perfect throw so I will agree that no second baseman in our organization could make a better throw.

D. TODD
04-07-2008, 02:21 PM
The tandem of Cabrera and Uribe up the middle is one of the best in baseball. Juan is one of the most under appreciated fielders in the game. I do love the combination in turning double plays. Uribe's canon looked great while turning those 5 twin killings yesterday.

Jjav829
04-07-2008, 02:55 PM
I'll go one step further. I can't (off the top of my head) name a better defensive IF in baseball than Crede, OC, Uribe and PK. I'm sure there are a few - but I can't name any.

Crede (despite yesterday) is a top tier defensive 3B.
OC is certainly in the top 1/4.
Uribe is going to be as good as any 2B defensively.
And Paulie won't hurt you. He makes the plays he needs to make.

Who's got a clearly better defensive IF across the board? Who has a clearly stronger defensive left side? I'm sure there are a few - but just thinking quickly I can't name em... Likely a few are as good - but are any clearly better?

The Mariners infield (Beltre, Betancourt, Lopez, Sexson) is potentially as good as any. And while not exactly known for their defense, the Braves (Chipper, Escobar, Johnson, Teixeira) isn't too bad either. The Rockies could be the best with Atkins, Tulowitzki, Nix and Helton.

But yes, the Sox infield defense is right up there with the best.

BainesHOF
04-08-2008, 05:09 AM
Of course, Uribe doesn't just have a good arm. He has a great one. I didn't even think about what a great advantage it would be turning double plays. It's already paid dividends in that regard and will continue to do so.

For that reason and others, like his basic overall defense, I can live with Uribe at second. With the rest of the team hitting, we can put up with his lame at-bats. Last year, the whole team struggling offensively just magnified Uribe's sorry act at the plate.

However, if the right trade came along, I wouldn't hesitate trading Uribe. Richar has major-league talent. He can certainly do a certain amount of learning on the job if the rest of our lineup continues to hit.

TomBradley72
04-08-2008, 11:30 AM
Uribe is a middle of the pack 2B in the American League. Probably in the top 3rd on defense, above average for run production (RBIs/HRs), below average OBP and speed (SBs).

Add his post season experience, ability to play SS if Cabrera goes down, and the fact that he's playing for his 2009 contract...he's a good fit for this team.

Tragg
04-08-2008, 12:20 PM
Let him play SS again next year; take the choices for Cabrera.

RedHeadPaleHoser
04-08-2008, 12:27 PM
But yes, the Sox infield defense is right up there with the best.

With the players in there today, yes. Fields I think adds a little more, but my concern is a replacement for Konerko. I think Swisher could do it in a pinch, but time will tell.

palehozenychicty
04-08-2008, 01:01 PM
The Mariners infield (Beltre, Betancourt, Lopez, Sexson) is potentially as good as any. And while not exactly known for their defense, the Braves (Chipper, Escobar, Johnson, Teixeira) isn't too bad either. The Rockies could be the best with Atkins, Tulowitzki, Nix and Helton.

But yes, the Sox infield defense is right up there with the best.

Overall, these two teams have far more athleticism. But the Sox have the most power.

TheVulture
04-08-2008, 07:31 PM
Despite all of Uribe's problems, he's always had a great arm. I can't remember any 2B the Sox have had in my lifetime that would have been able to make that play. Santiago was out at 3B by a good 5 feet.

Durham could turn a relay like nobody's business.

TheVulture
04-08-2008, 07:35 PM
Considering the Sox have trotted out noodle-arms at 2B like Ray Durham, D'Angelo Jimenez, and Willie Harris for the last 10 years.
That's not true, is it? - despite his other flaws, I remember Durham having an Uribe-esque arm - there's a reason he and Valentin led the league in double plays.