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View Full Version : What did Kenny know? And, when did he know it?


SluggersAway
04-05-2008, 09:08 PM
Does anyone believe Kenny's denials about steroids?

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080405-ken-williams-jose-canseco-chicago-white,1,3809883.story

Vernam
04-05-2008, 09:14 PM
This is the first and probably last time I'll use this:

:threadsucks

Vernam

turners56
04-05-2008, 09:33 PM
Jose got pwned by Kenny period.

Madvora
04-05-2008, 09:46 PM
This is the first and probably last time I'll use this:

:threadsucks

Vernam
I don't get it. What's the problem with bringing this up?
This is some big news concerning the Sox. I don't see why WSI wouldn't want to talk about this.

As for the question... I really don't know what to think anymore. I'm not just going to automatically believe KW just because I'm a Sox fan. That's like the boneheads who blindly defend Sosa and Bonds. I hope there's some more info that comes out about this because one guy's word vs. one guy's word really doesn't do too much.

SluggersAway
04-05-2008, 09:56 PM
This is the first and probably last time I'll use this:

:threadsucks

Vernam

Awesome! Way to make my 1000th post meaningful! :cool:

Viva Medias B's
04-05-2008, 10:20 PM
KW basically said "[Bleep] you, Jose."

SluggersAway
04-05-2008, 10:29 PM
KW basically said "[Bleep] you, Jose."

Yes, it is clear Kenny does not want to talk about it, but if you read the entire Mitchell Report it is pretty clear that all of management in baseball knew about the problem and discussed it when considering trades and acquisitions.

Viva Medias B's
04-05-2008, 10:51 PM
Yes, it is clear Kenny does not want to talk about it, but if you read the entire Mitchell Report it is pretty clear that all of management in baseball knew about the problem and discussed it when considering trades and acquisitions.

Which is why I wonder if KW, being a baseball insider, knew of Canseco being the "Godfather of Steroids" when he signed him in 2001. Despite the fact that Hiney Bird is exploiting this question out of his neverending hatred for all things White Sox, it is a legitimate one.

itsnotrequired
04-05-2008, 10:52 PM
KW invented steroids whilst on an epic bender. True story...

tebman
04-05-2008, 10:56 PM
Consider the source(s).

jamokes
04-05-2008, 11:01 PM
All of the Front Office in baseball knew what was going on, and the Union looked the other too.

Parrothead
04-06-2008, 02:32 AM
sadly the only person i believe about roids is Jose. i mean it was fairly obvious to everyone who was juicing. he is just bringing out more names.

Frontman
04-06-2008, 08:29 AM
I for one want this issue finally to go to bed. The Mitchell investigation brought a lot of light onto the subject, MLB and the Union is working on it, why allow Jose air-time to pimp his book at this point?

To me, if I was on the radio with him, I would ask "Jose, since you're all about cleaning up baseball, how about returning the MVP award and giving up your two World Series rings? I mean, if you were willing to do that, it would force the others on your club at the time to fess up or look bad, right?"

This attitude that he's been "good" for baseball is pure BS. He saw that he wouldn't make it into the Hall, (and earn additional monies off of that) so he told the truth. Well, good for him.

We, as a collective; the teams, the Union and the fans; all looked the other way. Since baseball will not retro-actively remove any awards or titles or records, the past is now the past.

eastchicagosoxfan
04-06-2008, 08:44 AM
A few years back, weren't the Sox players discussing refusing to submit to drug tests? I think if they refused, mandatory testing would have been the result.

thegooch
04-06-2008, 10:15 AM
To me, if I was on the radio with him, I would ask "Jose, since you're all about cleaning up baseball, how about returning the MVP award and giving up your two World Series rings? I mean, if you were willing to do that, it would force the others on your club at the time to fess up or look bad, right?"

I think he melted down the rings and trophy and sold the gold. :dtroll:

Scottiehaswheels
04-06-2008, 10:43 AM
I'm fervently hoping that Canseco comes back and says he never told the Moron that... I think a slander suit would fit him nicely.

santo=dorf
04-06-2008, 12:32 PM
Consider the source(s).
I don't get this post at all. Do you not trust the Cubune quoting Kenny, or what Canseco is saying about the Sox? :scratch: Canseco hasn't been wrong about steroids so far.

JB98
04-06-2008, 12:39 PM
A few years back, weren't the Sox players discussing refusing to submit to drug tests? I think if they refused, mandatory testing would have been the result.

I think that was 2003. Kelly Wunsch, our former player rep, was the ringleader. Anyone who refused the test was going to be automatically recorded as testing positive. The Sox players were trying to drive up the percentage of positive tests, in an effort to force a mandatory testing policy.

At least that's my recollection of it. If I'm not 100 percent accurate with that, I'm sure someone will correct me.

DickAllen72
04-06-2008, 12:50 PM
Does anyone believe Kenny's denials about steroids?

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080405-ken-williams-jose-canseco-chicago-white,1,3809883.story
Yes.

MarySwiss
04-06-2008, 12:58 PM
I think that was 2003. Kelly Wunsch, our former player rep, was the ringleader. Anyone who refused the test was going to be automatically recorded as testing positive. The Sox players were trying to drive up the percentage of positive tests, in an effort to force a mandatory testing policy.

At least that's my recollection of it. If I'm not 100 percent accurate with that, I'm sure someone will correct me.

Yeah, that's how I remember it too. And trying to force mandatory drug testing doesn't exactly square with knowing you have a bunch of guys on your team who are juicing.

peeonwrigley
04-06-2008, 01:27 PM
I think he melted down the rings and trophy and sold the gold. :dtroll:

Jose said on Howard Stern last week that he has sold off all items he owned relating to MLB.

It's Dankerific
04-06-2008, 01:48 PM
Yeah, that's how I remember it too. And trying to force mandatory drug testing doesn't exactly square with knowing you have a bunch of guys on your team who are juicing.

Sure it does, to the clean ones. People like Frank who might have seen people like Jose Canseco using steroids to pump up their numbers.

Jose may be a slippery source, but because of his actions there is a new climate in baseball and sports. While his intentions might have been more for revenge than the "good of the game", we should all be MORE upset at people like Palmeiro and Sosa than the one guy to come clean.

I hope he makes whatever money he can on this mess. GO JOSE GO!

white sox bill
04-06-2008, 02:10 PM
2001? Geez that was 7 yrs ago and counting. Let bygones be bygones. Then again some people still may be peeved at the Black Sox scandel. Let it go..

PalehosePlanet
04-06-2008, 02:21 PM
I'm sure Kenny knew that Canseco -- who didn't -- was a juicer, but I'd be surprised if he knew anything specifically about him turning Magglio on to steroids.

He probably knew it was possible though.

It's Dankerific
04-06-2008, 02:30 PM
I'm sure Kenny knew that Canseco -- who didn't -- was a juicer, but I'd be surprised if he knew anything specifically about him turning Magglio on to steroids.

He probably knew it was possible though.

Oh not Kenny, he's a straight shooter. Everyone else in management in baseball might have looked the other way, but Kenny was there making sure everything in the clubhouse was on the up and up. I even have to start doubting that Jose HIMSELF was doing steroids while with the White Sox, that's not something Kenny would tolerate.

Kenny is pissed because he perceives Jose to be breaking "the code of silence" and especially pissed because Kenny DID give Jose his last chance at the MLB level.

CLR01
04-06-2008, 03:09 PM
No White Sox players has ever used roids. It's quite remarkable they are he only team in pro sports to never have employeed an active juicer. I know this because I own Sox gear.

fquaye149
04-06-2008, 03:17 PM
What about the Dolphins? They're too lousy to have ever employed a steroids user.

CLR01
04-06-2008, 03:21 PM
What about the Dolphins? They're too lousy to have ever employed a steroids user.

They're no Chicago Bears but Dan Marino ate wheaties laced with roids.

fusillirob1983
04-06-2008, 03:27 PM
Chicago media's agenda this week (not that it differs from week to week): Make the Cubs look responsible and like good citizens, make Sox look bad, regardless of the fact that these events occurred in 2001 and 2003.

-Sox employed a juicer who made other Sox juicers.
-Cubs take responsibility for NLCS losses long ago and tell others it's not right to blame Steve Bartman because the Cubs no longer are.

fquaye149
04-06-2008, 03:41 PM
They're no Chicago Bears but Dan Marino ate wheaties laced with roids.

Give us an asterisk for 1985.

THIS IS WORSE THAN SPYGATE!

FoulTerritory
04-06-2008, 03:46 PM
Yes, it is clear Kenny does not want to talk about it, but if you read the entire Mitchell Report it is pretty clear that all of management in baseball knew about the problem and discussed it when considering trades and acquisitions.

I agree. And this is exactly why this isn't even a story. Its old news that pretty much the entirety of management knew about the steroids issue.

The idea that Kenny employed a roider and knew about the pervasive steroid use in baseball is not really innovative. The same seemingly could be said about all of various GM's in the league through the era at hand. So how is this "story" some sort of revelation?

Flight #24
04-06-2008, 08:07 PM
1) The quotes I read from Jose were basically "yeah, he knew - they all knew". I.e. not that KW (por anyone else ) had specific knowledge of players doping but that "they must have known". That I would say is probably true. GMs almost certainly had strong suspicions about specific guys or that there were guys in their clubhouse who were using. But they didn't actually have direct knowledge of any individuals getting or using PEDs. KW would almost certainly fall into that group. This is not news, it's just sensationalist headlines by a guy who hates the Sox. This is key: Jose doesn't say Kenny "knew" anything, he really is saying "he must have known". It's Moronotti through his hatred that says "that means Kenny knew Jose was sticking stuff up Maggs rump".

2) When Jose says "I injected Maggs", I believe him. Because in general, I think he's been right despite doing so from less than honorable intentions. That doesn't mean that "Kenny knew I was injecting Maggs". And I don't know that anything in Maggs physique or stats would alert anyone.

3) While I'm proud that the Sox as a team threatened the boycott of testing to force mandatory testing, I have to point out that were you a juicer faced with testing, it would be preferential to decline the test on moral grounds (i.e. "I'm clean but I want to force more testing") rather than be outed as a juicer. So while I still congratulate the Sox for their stance, I'm not as convinced that that alone means they were all clean.

doogiec
04-06-2008, 08:25 PM
1) The quotes I read from Jose were basically "yeah, he knew - they all knew". I.e. not that KW (por anyone else ) had specific knowledge of players doping but that "they must have known". That I would say is probably true. GMs almost certainly had strong suspicions about specific guys or that there were guys in their clubhouse who were using. But they didn't actually have direct knowledge of any individuals getting or using PEDs. KW would almost certainly fall into that group. This is not news, it's just sensationalist headlines by a guy who hates the Sox. This is key: Jose doesn't say Kenny "knew" anything, he really is saying "he must have known". It's Moronotti through his hatred that says "that means Kenny knew Jose was sticking stuff up Maggs rump".

2) When Jose says "I injected Maggs", I believe him. Because in general, I think he's been right despite doing so from less than honorable intentions. That doesn't mean that "Kenny knew I was injecting Maggs". And I don't know that anything in Maggs physique or stats would alert anyone.

3) While I'm proud that the Sox as a team threatened the boycott of testing to force mandatory testing, I have to point out that were you a juicer faced with testing, it would be preferential to decline the test on moral grounds (i.e. "I'm clean but I want to force more testing") rather than be outed as a juicer. So while I still congratulate the Sox for their stance, I'm not as convinced that that alone means they were all clean.

I agree, and think this is exactly what is going on here. Of course KW knew steroids were in MLB in 2001. I knew steroids were in MLB in 2001, and I have absolutely no involvement with the game. But Mariotti conveniently combines Conseco's claim of injecting Ordonez with Conseco's claim that KW knew, without it being ever stated exactly what it was Conseco claims KW knew. Since Mariotti wrote this article, I think its safe to assume that it was spun in the most anti-Sox way possible. If KW does sue, it will be interesting to see if Conseco agree that he made those comments, but was quoted out of context. It would then be interesting to see if KW then turns to the ST and JM.

Flight #24
04-06-2008, 08:58 PM
I agree, and think this is exactly what is going on here. Of course KW knew steroids were in MLB in 2001. I knew steroids were in MLB in 2001, and I have absolutely no involvement with the game. But Mariotti conveniently combines Conseco's claim of injecting Ordonez with Conseco's claim that KW knew, without it being ever stated exactly what it was Conseco claims KW knew. Since Mariotti wrote this article, I think its safe to assume that it was spun in the most anti-Sox way possible. If KW does sue, it will be interesting to see if Conseco agree that he made those comments, but was quoted out of context. It would then be interesting to see if KW then turns to the ST and JM.


Actually, a great question for Jose would be "did Jay Mariotti know in 2001 that Steroids were rampant in baseball"? Because the answer should be "yeah he knew.....they all knew. He was around players a lot, of course he knew".

Then go back and reprint all his columns lauding Sham-me and MchGhwire.

Viva Medias B's
04-06-2008, 09:58 PM
Actually, a great question for Jose would be "did Jay Mariotti know in 2001 that Steroids were rampant in baseball"? Because the answer should be "yeah he knew.....they all knew. He was around players a lot, of course he knew".

Then go back and reprint all his columns lauding Sham-me and MchGhwire.

Paging Rick Morrissey. Paging Rick Morrissey.

IIRC, Jay had quite the man love for Sosa at the time.