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fquaye149
04-04-2008, 02:42 PM
When's it gonna be guys!?!?!?!?

Madscout
04-04-2008, 02:46 PM
Somewhere else or in AAA. It should be soon, but knowing Ozzie...

salty99
04-04-2008, 02:48 PM
Hey no Toby Hall watch?

Jjav829
04-04-2008, 03:57 PM
Does it matter? Quentin is 2-4 today with a HR. He's the better player. He should be getting more at-bats.

I gotta say fquaye, this isn't helping your "I don't care about BA" case. :smile:

The Immigrant
04-04-2008, 03:58 PM
Hey no Toby Hall watch?

He'll probably start tomorrow, even though A.J. is on a tear.

gogosox16
04-04-2008, 03:59 PM
Hey no Toby Hall watch?
Toby's might be tomorrow, I think BA will get a start tomorrow.

Frater Perdurabo
04-04-2008, 04:22 PM
I think BA should be playing specifically for his defense. Today I would have put BA in CF, moved Quentin to right, and Swisher to left to start the bottom of the eighth inning (with all apologies to Dye for making the last out, Quentin would have made that play, too), specifically because Comerica has such a huge OF.

I agree with you that Ozzie still doesn't like or trust or want to play BA.

But the schtick of starting this thread on a day when Quentin has a good game is a bit over the top, fquaye.

It would have been called for if Quentin made a bone-headed defensive miscue, but not while Quentin is in the middle of a good game.

Flight #24
04-04-2008, 04:24 PM
I'm as big of a BA supporter as there is, and I don't think he's gotten a fair shake from Ozzie. I'm also not yet convinced that Quentin is a better overall player when factoring in D. But when you plug in a guy and he comes through and helps get the win, hard to complain.

I'd still like to see Anderson at least get a chance, and per Ozzie's comments I don't see it happening. But I like Quentin a lot.

Lefty34
04-04-2008, 05:36 PM
BA's first AB will come in AAA after he is sent down to "fine-tune his skills" after about two weeks of not playing in the MLB. He will then be traded as part of a deal to bring in another "grinder" (see: FedEx227's definition of grinder) to suck up plate appearances and play poor D.

It's a shame too, Ozzie had a very solid defensive CF'er in Anderson with what appeared to be emerging skills at the plate, yet he chose a completely untested rookie with almost the same numbers in ST. I've said it before and I will say it a million times (even regardless of if the Sox win the World Series) that Ozzie has made a bone-headed move that really shows his inability to manage. He has a club this year with improved offense that doesn't rely on the HR (I saw Thome and Paulie smack doubles into the gap, great job guys) AND the added potency of Swisher and Cabrera. Defense in CF is head and shoulders above offense at the position, and Ozzie has portrayed his ability to mis-manage and remain petty about past performances.

Oh well, maybe the young guy will be able to catch on with a team that realizes the need for defense in CF and will have a nice little career.

Jerome
04-04-2008, 05:38 PM
I lol'd at "Brian Andersonez" from that thread a while back

as much as I want to see BA play, I don't think it's Quentin he should be taking at bats from. Not gonna fault Ozzie there. Now Owens and a totally out of position Alexi, that's a different story.

BTFU
04-04-2008, 05:49 PM
I lol'd at "Brian Andersonez" from that thread a while back

as much as I want to see BA play, I don't think it's Quentin he should be taking at bats from. Not gonna fault Ozzie there. Now Owens and a totally out of position Alexi, that's a different story.


Got to second those thoughts, I want to see BA play as well, but don't really see a spot for him right now.

JB98
04-04-2008, 06:06 PM
Does it matter? Quentin is 2-4 today with a HR. He's the better player. He should be getting more at-bats.

I gotta say fquaye, this isn't helping your "I don't care about BA" case. :smile:

The BA people are out of control, but I have to give props to those posters who argued Wednesday night that Quentin should be in LF, with Swisher moving over to CF.

That has been the winning lineup the last two days. Quentin definitely had a hand in today's win.

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 06:09 PM
It's not that I particularly care....I just think it's a little ****ed up that he hasn't had any AB's after having an excellent spring, the lip service Ozzie paid, and Alexei "What's a fly ball" Ramirez starting two games.

At any rate, as long as Quentin's in left and Swisher's in CF, BA can rot on the bench for all I care.


but to be fair JJav, all your "dude just wait till the season starts. You're totally jumping conclusions that Ozzie is going to let BA rot on the bench" schtick seems pretty ridiculous now, don't it?

Same ****, different toilet bowl, same old Ozzie :shrug:

munchman33
04-04-2008, 06:18 PM
BA belongs on this team ahead of Owens, as a fifth outfielder, 25th man type position. He doesn't deserve a "start." He deserves to ride the bench and come in late in games and in emergency situations or when the game is out of hand. If he thrives at that, then you think about expanding. But in the last three years, the only thing he's proven is that he could hit minor league pitching. And he's had plenty of chances to dispel that already.

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 06:22 PM
BA belongs on this team ahead of Owens, as a fifth outfielder, 25th man type position. He doesn't deserve a "start." He deserves to ride the bench and come in late in games and in emergency situations or when the game is out of hand. If he thrives at that, then you think about expanding. But in the last three years, the only thing he's proven is that he could hit minor league pitching. And he's had plenty of chances to dispel that already.

Do you mean his 17 AB in 2007?

Or do you mean in Spring Training.

Sure he ****ed up the first half of 2006. But what the **** "plenty of chances" are you referring to?

JB98
04-04-2008, 06:29 PM
Why do we have to have another pissing match about Brian Anderson?

There have only been 154 threads like this since the start of spring training, and most of them have ended up with hundreds of posts.

There are no new arguments that are going to be presented on this topic.

Daver
04-04-2008, 06:30 PM
Why do we have to have another pissing match about Brian Anderson?


Because the members here like to piss and moan.

JB98
04-04-2008, 06:32 PM
Because the members here like to piss and moan.

Maybe I should start a thread about Pablo Ozuna's lack of at-bats as well.

Let's see if that gets up to 300 posts.

Daver
04-04-2008, 06:34 PM
Maybe I should start a thread about Pablo Ozuna's lack of at-bats as well.

Let's see if that gets up to 300 posts.

See?

You like to piss and moan too.

CLR01
04-04-2008, 06:35 PM
Why do we have to have another pissing match about Brian Anderson?

There have only been 154 threads like this since the start of spring training, and most of them have ended up with hundreds of posts.

There are no new arguments that are going to be presented on this topic.

Great question. It wasn't a pissing match until the haters decided to make it one.

JB98
04-04-2008, 06:36 PM
Great question. It wasn't a pissing match until the haters decided to make it one.

I didn't start this thread.

CLR01
04-04-2008, 06:39 PM
I didn't start this thread.


It wasn't a pissing match after just the first post. It was just another prediction thread.

oeo
04-04-2008, 06:45 PM
It wasn't a pissing match after just the first post.

Sure it was. It was just a more subtle version of :whiner:.

CLR01
04-04-2008, 06:50 PM
Sure it was. It was just a more subtle version of :whiner:.


If a grab a racket and start hitting a ball against the sde of a building I'm not having a tennis match. :dunno:

munchman33
04-04-2008, 06:59 PM
Do you mean his 17 AB in 2007?

Or do you mean in Spring Training.

Sure he ****ed up the first half of 2006. But what the **** "plenty of chances" are you referring to?

You're right. He really tore up the minors last year, earning a second chance.

Brian had a chance. His attitude squandered it. He was sent down and has never since done anything remotely close to earning a second opportunity. He could have worked hard and produced and been back up. He didn't. He's extremely lucky to even have the role he has.

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 07:00 PM
You're right. He really tore up the minors last year, earning a second chance.

He was hurt.


Brian had a chance. His attitude squandered it. He was sent down and has never since done anything remotely close to earning a second opportunity. He could have worked hard and produced and been back up. He didn't. He's extremely lucky to even have the role he has.

That may be true that he "squandered" his chance. But that doesn't mean "he's had a number of chances".

Get your **** straight

oeo
04-04-2008, 07:01 PM
If a grab a racket and start hitting a ball against the sde of a building I'm not having a tennis match. :dunno:

Fine, it was an awfully good start to a 'pissing match.' Fquaye came to whine about the lack of ABs...and that's going to start something here.

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 07:02 PM
Sure it was. It was just a more subtle version of :whiner:.

It's a thread asking the question why the hottest hitter in Spring Training and the best defensive OF on the team has had no at bats at all this season while a guy who doesn't play CF has had two starts.

If you want to call that :whiner: go right ahead.

Daver
04-04-2008, 07:02 PM
He was hurt.



That may be true that he "squandered" his chance. But that doesn't mean "he's had a number of chances".

Get your **** straight

Facts have no place in a pissing contest of highest proportions.

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 07:02 PM
Fine, it was an awfully good start to a 'pissing match.' Fquaye came to whine about the lack of ABs...and that's going to start something here.

see above

munchman33
04-04-2008, 07:04 PM
He was hurt.



That may be true that he "squandered" his chance. But that doesn't mean "he's had a number of chances".

Get your **** straight

Are you related to BA or something? :?:

Maybe you didn't pay attention to all the comments and pokes he made while down in the minors. He didn't feel like he should be there (which was of course wrong). His injury might have played a role, but it was OBVIOUS Brian was dogging it down there. I'm glad the Sox aren't going to cater to **** like that. He wants to play? He'll have to earn it the HARD way. Because this baby bull**** is through. No more kid gloves. Do what we say or you're gone.

munchman33
04-04-2008, 07:07 PM
It's a thread asking the question why the hottest hitter in Spring Training and the best defensive OF on the team has had no at bats at all this season while a guy who doesn't play CF has had two starts.

If you want to call that :whiner: go right ahead.

Well, if you want to play that game, I'll ask why a career .216 MLB hitter deserves to have at bats at this point.

Between your "spring" at bats and my "MLB" at bats, only one mean something. The other is complete horse****.

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 07:09 PM
Well, if you want to play that game, I'll ask why a career .216 MLB hitter deserves to have at bats at this point.

Between your "spring" at bats and my "MLB" at bats, only one mean something. The other is complete horse****.

Because he hit .190 in the first half of his rookie year, hit .260 in the second half--which suggests the natural learning curve most baseball players have, plays excellent defense, had a solid spring, and is a better secondary option (behind Swisher) than Alexei ****ing Ramirez who has already had two starts in CF after a spring that suggested he had no business playing CF

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 07:10 PM
Are you related to BA or something? :?:

lol. Yeah. i'm related to him :rolleyes:


Maybe you didn't pay attention to all the comments and pokes he made while down in the minors. He didn't feel like he should be there (which was of course wrong). His injury might have played a role, but it was OBVIOUS Brian was dogging it down there. I'm glad the Sox aren't going to cater to **** like that. He wants to play? He'll have to earn it the HARD way. Because this baby bull**** is through. No more kid gloves. Do what we say or you're gone.

what does this have to do with your bull**** claim that "he's had tons of chances"?

CLR01
04-04-2008, 07:10 PM
Are you related to BA or something? :?:

Maybe you didn't pay attention to all the comments and pokes he made while down in the minors. He didn't feel like he should be there (which was of course wrong). His injury might have played a role, but it was OBVIOUS Brian was dogging it down there. I'm glad the Sox aren't going to cater to **** like that. He wants to play? He'll have to earn it the HARD way. Because this baby bull**** is through. No more kid gloves. Do what we say or you're gone.

He was hitting around .300 before he injured his shoulder(or was it his elbow?). I guess you could call that dogging it. That little ****er could have been hitting .400. :rolleyes:

munchman33
04-04-2008, 07:11 PM
lol. Yeah. i'm related to him :rolleyes:



what does this have to do with your bull**** claim that "he's had tons of chances"?

Because being down in AAA is an opportunity. He didn't prove he belonged back up.

CLR01
04-04-2008, 07:12 PM
Well, if you want to play that game, I'll ask why a career .216 MLB hitter deserves to have at bats at this point.

Between your "spring" at bats and my "MLB" at bats, only one mean something. The other is complete horse****.

QUentin is only rocking a .233 average. Guess that is different though.

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 07:12 PM
Because being down in AAA is an opportunity. He didn't prove he belonged back up.

He was hurt.

None of your bull**** "but he didn't want to be there...he's such a punk kid! White Sox want HARD WORKERS" crap changes that fact.

I suppose you're going to bring up the "winter ball" thing where he got food poisoning as well...

:rolleyes:

munchman33
04-04-2008, 07:14 PM
Because he hit .190 in the first half of his rookie year, hit .260 in the second half--which suggests the natural learning curve most baseball players have, plays excellent defense, had a solid spring, and is a better secondary option (behind Swisher) than Alexei ****ing Ramirez who has already had two starts in CF after a spring that suggested he had no business playing CF

And .225 the whole year. And since then hasn't shown the plate discipline to improve on that. Even when sent down to AAA. Still wouldn't take pitches. Still wouldn't listen to coaches.

In what universe is hitting .260 with no plate discipline considered good? :scratch: I guess only when you just got done hitting .190. :dunno:

munchman33
04-04-2008, 07:15 PM
QUentin is only rocking a .233 average. Guess that is different though.

Yep. Quentin doesn't bitch. And he fights to be better. And his plate approach is about 1000 times better, too.

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 07:16 PM
And .225 the whole year.

Yes. That is the way you ought to evaluate a rookie who starts off poorly and then improves. On their BA for the whole year

:rolleyes:


And since then hasn't shown the plate discipline to improve on that.

Oh I see. You mean in his 17 AB's against the top pitchers in baseball in 2007. It must be that because you couldn't be talking about HIS MINOR LEAGUE STINT WHERE HE WAS HURT


Even when sent down to AAA. Still wouldn't take pitches. Still wouldn't listen to coaches.

Oh wait. You are.


In what universe is hitting .260 with no plate discipline considered good? :scratch: I guess only when you just got done hitting .190. :dunno:

Apparently the same universe where Jerry Owens deserves to play major league baseball.

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 07:17 PM
Yep. Quentin doesn't bitch. And he fights to be better. And his plate approach is about 1000 times better, too.

So you say.

Got any more anecdotal bull**** to spew?

munchman33
04-04-2008, 07:17 PM
He was hurt.

None of your bull**** "but he didn't want to be there...he's such a punk kid! White Sox want HARD WORKERS" crap changes that fact.

I suppose you're going to bring up the "winter ball" thing where he got food poisoning as well...

:rolleyes:

You want to be a primadonna? You should at least play like one. BA isn't even "Juan Uribe" good at the plate.

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 07:17 PM
You want to be a primadonna? You should at least play like one. BA isn't even "Juan Uribe" good at the plate.

So you say.

Got any more anecdotal bull**** to spew?

Jurr
04-04-2008, 07:17 PM
Anderson, Quentin, Owens.......nothing.
I absolutely HATE platoon situations. If you have more than one starting QB, you really don't have one. I just hope one of these guys ends the dispute in a quick manner. You don't make a point for anyone else playing catcher, shortstop, or first base, and I would love for that to be the case with the third OF spot. Hopefully Quentin or Owens is so good that we no longer care what Anderson's doing. Or, maybe Anderson becomes that guy. I just hate it when there's so much upheaval at a position.

CLR01
04-04-2008, 07:19 PM
And .225 the whole year. And since then hasn't shown the plate discipline to improve on that. Even when sent down to AAA. Still wouldn't take pitches. Still wouldn't listen to coaches.

In what universe is hitting .260 with no plate discipline considered good? :scratch: I guess only when you just got done hitting .190. :dunno:


He had 19 BB in 200 at bats. Not record setting but not horrible. Proof that he wasn;t listening to coaches down there?

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 07:19 PM
Anderson, Quentin, Owens.......nothing.
I absolutely HATE platoon situations. If you have more than one starting QB, you really don't have one. I just hope one of these guys ends the dispute in a quick manner. You don't make a point for anyone else playing catcher, shortstop, or first base, and I would love for that to be the case with the third OF spot. Hopefully Quentin or Owens is so good that we no longer care what Anderson's doing. Or, maybe Anderson becomes that guy. I just hate it when there's so much upheaval at a position.

So do I.

Here's the thing: If our starting OF this year is Quentin/Swisher/Dye I would be ecstatic.

But this Ramirez bull**** suggests quite strongly to me that Owens and Swisher and Quentin will be rotating around the LF/CF positions all ****ing year.

All I'm saying is if you're going to pull that garbage (which Ozzie is almost certainly going to) then at least give Anderson the split time, not garbage CF's (defensively speaking) like Owens and Ramirez

munchman33
04-04-2008, 07:21 PM
So you say.

Got any more anecdotal bull**** to spew?

You know what. ****ING come up with an argument for BA to get at bats outside of hitting minor leaguers and non-roster invitees well this spring. Because it's getting tired. The guy is nearing 500 career plate appearances in the majors. And while guys can improve, he's shown as little as possible to prove he belongs here. There are so many guys that deserve a chance over this piece of crap.

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 07:23 PM
You know what. ****ING come up with an argument for BA to get at bats outside of hitting minor leaguers and non-roster invitees well this spring. Because it's getting tired. The guy is nearing 500 career plate appearances in the majors. And while guys can improve, he's shown as little as possible to prove he belongs here. There are so many guys that deserve a chance over this piece of crap.

1.) He showed improvement normalizing to an acceptable batting average after struggling the first half of his rookie year. That is the only significant MLB playing time he has and suggests at least acceptable hitting skills at the MLB level

2.) He plays exceptional defense

3.) He is a better option in CF than anyone else on this roster, excepting Swisher

What more is there to say?


Here are your arguments:

1.) BUT IN HIS ROOKIE YEAR HE HIT .216 OVER THE WHOLE YEAR. DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO HIS "first half last half" SPLITS. JUST LOOK AT THE WHOLE YEAR

2.) HE HAD A BAD ATTITUDE ONCE

3.) HE HAS HAD PLENTY OF CHANCES EVEN THOUGH HE DOESN'T

4.) DUDE YOU MUST BE RELATED TO ANDERSON OR SOMETHING HEH HEH

Why don't you put forth the rational argument you're challenging me to include?

Jurr
04-04-2008, 07:24 PM
So do I.

Here's the thing: If our starting OF this year is Quentin/Swisher/Dye I would be ecstatic.

But this Ramirez bull**** suggests quite strongly to me that Owens and Swisher and Quentin will be rotating around the LF/CF positions all ****ing year.

All I'm saying is if you're going to pull that garbage (which Ozzie is almost certainly going to) then at least give Anderson the split time, not garbage CF's (defensively speaking) like Owens and Ramirez
I'm not a big fan of the whole favoritism thing. They are really lauding Owens and Ramirez. I know managers have "their guys". Who was that kid that Jerry Manuel fell in love with??? Juilo Ramirez or something? He was AWFUL.

Brian Anderson does have a mean glove. Uribe stays on the Sox because of his glove. I guess you can't do that at too many positions. All I know is the Sox will not be a great team at all this year if they don't get consistent defense up the middle. Playing musical CF's isn't going to get you there.

Daver
04-04-2008, 07:25 PM
You know what. ****ING come up with an argument for BA to get at bats outside of hitting minor leaguers and non-roster invitees well this spring. Because it's getting tired. The guy is nearing 500 career plate appearances in the majors. And while guys can improve, he's shown as little as possible to prove he belongs here. There are so many guys that deserve a chance over this piece of crap.

Yet you believe in the myth that Josh Fields is going to make strides in improving defensively.

munchman33
04-04-2008, 07:25 PM
He had 19 BB in 200 at bats. Not record setting but not horrible. Proof that he wasn;t listening to coaches down there?

With almost 50 K's.....

Yeah. Real improvement there. :rolleyes:

munchman33
04-04-2008, 07:26 PM
Yet you believe in the myth that Josh Fields is going to make strides in improving defensively.

Doesn't he have to, just by default. :dunno:

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 07:26 PM
I'm not a big fan of the whole favoritism thing. They are really lauding Owens and Ramirez. I know managers have "their guys". Who was that kid that Jerry Manuel fell in love with??? Juilo Ramirez or something? He was AWFUL.

Brian Anderson does have a mean glove. Uribe stays on the Sox because of his glove. I guess you can't do that at too many positions. All I know is the Sox will not be a great team at all this year if they don't get consistent defense up the middle. Playing musical CF's isn't going to get you there.

We shall see. It is conceivable that Ramirez will, with AAA time, evolve into an acceptable CF. It is even conceivable that Owens will evolve into an acceptable CF. It's not likely though, and certainly at the moment, I am extremely uncomfortable with any of the CF's on our team but Swisher.

It's Dankerific
04-04-2008, 07:26 PM
You know what. ****ING come up with an argument for BA to get at bats outside of hitting minor leaguers and non-roster invitees well this spring. Because it's getting tired. The guy is nearing 500 career plate appearances in the majors. And while guys can improve, he's shown as little as possible to prove he belongs here. There are so many guys that deserve a chance over this piece of crap.

This is ****ing hilarious. The rest of the damn team played against the "minor leaguers and roster invitees" this spring, why weren't they rocking the same sort of offense BA was????

Its ESPECIALLY ****ING HILARIOUS coming from the guy who thinks the results of an A ball pitcher makes him 100% HOF material.

CLR01
04-04-2008, 07:27 PM
With almost 50 K's.....

Yeah. Real improvement there. :rolleyes:

You said he wasn't taking pitches. :shrug:

Jurr
04-04-2008, 07:27 PM
All that said, Swisher would be the CF and Quentin would hit 25-30 homers out of the LF position and 7 slot. I know they'd love Owens to be Podsednik II, but this doesn't look like the type of offense that's going to be needing much of that. Get Swisher on base, and he can run plenty well.
*edit*--I'm going to leave this here as a reminder to young kids not to drink while trying to post coherent thought.

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 07:28 PM
This is ****ing hilarious. The rest of the damn team played against the "minor leaguers and roster invitees" this spring, why weren't they rocking the same sort of offense BA was????

Its ESPECIALLY ****ING HILARIOUS coming from the guy who thinks the results of an A ball pitcher makes him 100% HOF material.

Oh yeah. I forgot that this is that De Los Santos pud.

I suppose if De Los Santos's rookie year features an abysmal first half and a solid second half, he will deserve to be relegated to the Bush Leagues forever so long as his rookie season final stats, distorted by the lousy first half, aren't up to snuff

We will hear munchman's moans--"De Los Santos failed me. He must be a whiny punk and have a bad attitude" as another future HOFer bites the dust

munchman33
04-04-2008, 07:30 PM
1.) He showed improvement normalizing to an acceptable batting average after struggling the first half of his rookie year. That is the only significant MLB playing time he has and suggests at least acceptable hitting skills at the MLB level

2.) He plays exceptional defense

3.) He is a better option in CF than anyone else on this roster, excepting Swisher



#1 is flat out false. He still blew in the second half. He just blew less.

#2 is great for that 5th outfielder spot.

#3 is opinion. And it's probably a wrong opinion. But your best case scenerio is he's the second best (backup) CF on a team with a bunch of guys that either shouldn't be playing center or shouldn't be starting there. Yippee.

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 07:31 PM
#1 is flat out false. He still blew in the second half. He just blew less.

.256 BA for a rookie is "blowing"


#2 is great for that 5th outfielder spot.

#3 is opinion. And it's probably a wrong opinion. But your best case scenerio is he's the second best (backup) CF on a team with a bunch of guys that either shouldn't be playing center or shouldn't be starting. Yippee.

I'm glad that baseball is only played at the plate and on the mound.

Thank goodness for fantasy baseball.

munchman33
04-04-2008, 07:32 PM
Oh yeah. I forgot that this is that De Los Santos pud.

I suppose if De Los Santos's rookie year features an abysmal first half and a solid second half, he will deserve to be relegated to the Bush Leagues forever so long as his rookie season final stats, distorted by the lousy first half, aren't up to snuff

We will hear munchman's moans--"De Los Santos failed me. He must be a whiny punk and have a bad attitude" as another future HOFer bites the dust

DLS has talent Brian can only dream of. Brian doesn't have any quality of his offense game that projects to "star" status.

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 07:33 PM
DLS has talent Brian can only dream of. Brian doesn't have any quality of his offense game that projects to "star" status.

BA was a blue chip when he was a prospect too.

Keep yammering about things you clearly have no clue about.

munchman33
04-04-2008, 07:33 PM
You said he wasn't taking pitches. :shrug:

And his pitch per plate appearance ratio didn't improve.

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 07:34 PM
And his pitch per plate appearance ratio didn't improve.

link.

Cuck the Fubs
04-04-2008, 07:37 PM
Is Brian Anderson the new Aaron Rowand?:scratch:

Jjav829
04-04-2008, 07:38 PM
but to be fair JJav, all your "dude just wait till the season starts. You're totally jumping conclusions that Ozzie is going to let BA rot on the bench" schtick seems pretty ridiculous now, don't it?


No, not at all. In fact, so far, I'm completely right. You complained about Ramirez starting in center and said we're going to be stuck with him. Well, we're four games into the season and we've already seen Swisher in center for 2 games, just like I figured we would. So thus far, all your outrage about Ramirez being in center isn't justified, because Ramirez only started the first two games.

That may change, but so far, this is exactly what I expected. Some uncertainty in the outfield with that #3 spot. Two starts for Ramirez, two starts for Quentin. Quentin has looked pretty good in his two, so maybe we're going to see more of him. Or maybe BA gets a start tomorrow.

Either way, not to pat myself on the back too much, because it's only 4 games, but since you decided to call me out on it, I'm gonna back myself up and say this is exactly what I expected through 4 games.

munchman33
04-04-2008, 07:38 PM
BA was a blue chip when he was a prospect too.

Keep yammering about things you clearly have no clue about.

Except BA isn't a prospect anymore. His swing is too long. He doesn't have plate discipline. He doesn't have the natural ability to overcome those deficiencies. Nor does he have the attitude.

I'll admit, I probably don't know as much about BA as you do. I tend to fixate on players who are talented and have the right attitude to go along with it.

CLR01
04-04-2008, 07:39 PM
Is Brian Anderson the new Aaron Rowand?:scratch:


Last I checked BA was still a member of the CHicago White Sox. :?:

munchman33
04-04-2008, 07:40 PM
link.

I read it in a Baseball America article, but I don't subscribe anymore. If anyone does, they can look it up for you.

balke
04-04-2008, 07:47 PM
It'll be when it is. This is pretty poor timing for a thread, seeing how Quentin went yard today.

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 07:48 PM
No, not at all. In fact, so far, I'm completely right. You complained about Ramirez starting in center and said we're going to be stuck with him. Well, we're four games into the season and we've already seen Swisher in center for 2 games, just like I figured we would. So thus far, all your outrage about Ramirez being in center isn't justified, because Ramirez only started the first two games.

That may change, but so far, this is exactly what I expected. Some uncertainty in the outfield with that #3 spot. Two starts for Ramirez, two starts for Quentin. Quentin has looked pretty good in his two, so maybe we're going to see more of him. Or maybe BA gets a start tomorrow.

Either way, not to pat myself on the back too much, because it's only 4 games, but since you decided to call me out on it, I'm gonna back myself up and say this is exactly what I expected through 4 games.

That's not what I said. I was fed up with Ozzie starting crap in CF and said that was a sign he would be starting crap in CF throughout the year.

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 07:51 PM
It'll be when it is. This is pretty poor timing for a thread, seeing how Quentin went yard today.

:shrug:

Daver
04-04-2008, 07:51 PM
First one that can write their whole name in the snow with urine wins.

It's Dankerific
04-04-2008, 07:53 PM
That's not what I said. I was fed up with Ozzie starting crap in CF and said that was a sign he would be starting crap in CF throughout the year.

Must I mention we're 2-0 when Lexi rides the bench?? ;)

Now, as my sig attests, I think BA deserves a shot. Even so, I'm happy with Quentin getting a shot since he looks like he can actually play at the MLB level. What is TRULY sickening, is that whatever our record, whatever our chemistry, the moment Jerry Owens is off the DL he will be returned to his "earned" starting job like hes Willie Mays.

Ozzies ego >>>> Whats best for this team

CLR01
04-04-2008, 07:53 PM
First one that can write their whole name in the snow with urine wins.
:pee:

Madscout
04-04-2008, 07:58 PM
Must I mention we're 2-0 when Lexi rides the bench?? ;)

Now, as my sig attests, I think BA deserves a shot. Even so, I'm happy with Quentin getting a shot since he looks like he can actually play at the MLB level. What is TRULY sickening, is that whatever our record, whatever our chemistry, the moment Jerry Owens is off the DL he will be returned to his "earned" starting job like hes Willie Mays.

Ozzies ego >>>> Whats best for this team

Dude kills rallies like mentioning BA kills threads...

CLR01
04-04-2008, 08:04 PM
Dude kills rallies like mentioning BA kills threads...


BA killies puppies. Threads take off when he is brought up.

It's Dankerific
04-04-2008, 08:10 PM
BA killies puppies. Threads take off when he is brought up.

I've heard that Microsoft and AOL donate a penny to a Cancer Kid whenever BA is brought up in an email or board posting.

Madscout
04-04-2008, 08:15 PM
BA killies puppies. Threads take off when he is brought up.

I meant the whole downward/upward spiral the thread takes when he is brought up.

Dan Mega
04-04-2008, 08:38 PM
Is Brian Anderson the new Aaron Rowand?:scratch:

Rowand and his bad routes got to play every day pretty much without question. Rowand fans are still blaming the Sox' woes on his lack of being on the team.

BA has a much better glove than Rowand and lit it up in spring training. He matured and looks much better at the plate from what we saw in ST.

In conclusion, BA >>> Owens.

Dan Mega
04-04-2008, 08:40 PM
DLS has talent Brian can only dream of. Brian doesn't have any quality of his offense game that projects to "star" status.

:rolling:

ksimpson14
04-04-2008, 09:03 PM
Ramirez has no business playing ahead of Anderson. That said, I have a feeling we will see a Ramirez start in the coming days before we see an Anderson one

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 09:04 PM
Must I mention we're 2-0 when Lexi rides the bench?? ;)

Now, as my sig attests, I think BA deserves a shot. Even so, I'm happy with Quentin getting a shot since he looks like he can actually play at the MLB level. What is TRULY sickening, is that whatever our record, whatever our chemistry, the moment Jerry Owens is off the DL he will be returned to his "earned" starting job like hes Willie Mays.

Ozzies ego >>>> Whats best for this team

As long as our OF is not populated by inept OF's I'm happy.

If that means that Quentin and Swisher are in LF and CF awesome! Those are players who can play MLB caliber OF.

It's Dankerific
04-04-2008, 09:05 PM
Ramirez has no business playing ahead of Anderson. That said, I have a feeling we will see a Ramirez start in the coming days before we see an Anderson one

I'd be willing to a wager a significant amount of money on that proposition..
(affirmative).

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 09:05 PM
Ramirez has no business playing ahead of Anderson. That said, I have a feeling we will see a Ramirez start in the coming days before we see an Anderson one

THAT and ONLY THAT is my point here.

I don't think BA should be our starting OF, but if someone besides Swisher is going to get a start in CF, it sure as sugar shouldn't be Alexei ****ing Ramirez just so Juan "what's a ball?" Uribe can fulfill Ozzie's veteran-hardon

Frater Perdurabo
04-04-2008, 09:25 PM
THAT and ONLY THAT is my point here.

I don't think BA should be our starting OF, but if someone besides Swisher is going to get a start in CF, it sure as sugar shouldn't be Alexei ****ing Ramirez just so Juan "what's a ball?" Uribe can fulfill Ozzie's veteran-hardon

I'd just like to see Ozzie put BA in CF for the bottom of the eighth and the ninth (with Dye going to the bench, Swisher to left and Quentin to right) to help protect the lead in a big ballpark, especially since Dye was not likely to bat again in the top of the ninth (he made the last out of the eighth).

Seriously, is it too much to ask for Ozzie not to be a stubborn mule? :scratch:

BadBobbyJenks
04-04-2008, 09:28 PM
THAT and ONLY THAT is my point here.

I don't think BA should be our starting OF, but if someone besides Swisher is going to get a start in CF, it sure as sugar shouldn't be Alexei ****ing Ramirez just so Juan "what's a ball?" Uribe can fulfill Ozzie's veteran-hardon


If that was your point, maybe you should have stated that in your first post of the thread you created.

It's Dankerific
04-04-2008, 09:30 PM
Seriously, is it too much to ask for Ozzie not to be a stubborn mule? :scratch:

Yes.

Also from another Trib article at the bottom, Quentin is making it a harder for Ozzie to make the decision between Quentin and Anderson when Owens returns on his HOF chariot. So, It wouldnt surprise me if Anderson is sent to AAA without a start and probably not an at-bat either.

I like Quentin. But why the hell is this the question being asked? How about, do we even bring Owens back, or do we send Lexi down, or something that makes some ****ing sense.

Dan Mega
04-04-2008, 09:31 PM
Send Ramirez down. He is raw as hell. Owens can be a pinch runner or something, I dunno. All I know is that BA should be starting, and I am awesome at internetting.

EndemicSox
04-04-2008, 09:57 PM
Ramirez has no business playing ahead of Anderson. That said, I have a feeling we will see a Ramirez start in the coming days before we see an Anderson one

I agree, Ramirez should be, and will be, imo, in AAA learning how to hit off-speed pitches shortly. Anderson will get his shot, it may only be a week or two, but he'll get it...

voodoochile
04-04-2008, 10:06 PM
First one that can write their whole name in the snow with urine wins.

:peevoodoochile
What's my prize?

Daver
04-04-2008, 10:23 PM
:peevoodoochile
What's my prize?


Where is the snow?

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 10:46 PM
If that was your point, maybe you should have stated that in your first post of the thread you created.

I thought it was pretty clear that the point of this thread was to wonder when BA would be played

People bitched, as people will, and then there became a new point to make

Thanks for playing along at home, though.:rolleyes:

Tragg
04-04-2008, 10:54 PM
Don't you go where the huskies go
And don't you eat that yellow snow

Daver
04-04-2008, 10:59 PM
Don't you go where the huskies go
And don't you eat that yellow snow

If anything bad happens to your eyes, after a conflict with anyone named Nanook, you must go trudging across the tundra, mile after...

Tragg
04-04-2008, 11:42 PM
If anything bad happens to your eyes, after a conflict with anyone named Nanook, you must go trudging across the tundra, mile after...

Wow.
I should know better than to throw out zappa lyrics fest with the man who has session tapes on reel-to-reel.

Can't wait for breakfast tomorrow morning. For I shall dine on the prince of foods - the muffin.

voodoochile
04-04-2008, 11:46 PM
Where is the snow?

How do you paint snow on a white background?

Here's my great art for you...




. .




^White cat in a snow bank during a blizzard

Ta Daaaaaaa...

Okay, I'll try it again...

:peeTheSvoodoochilenow...

There, now what do I win? :gulp:

ode to veeck
04-05-2008, 12:08 AM
Maybe I should start a thread about Pablo Ozuna's lack of at-bats as well.

Let's see if that gets up to 300 posts.

don't do it unless he can play head and shoulders better than any one else on the team D at a critical position in the field

Daver
04-05-2008, 12:23 AM
Wow.
I should know better than to throw out zappa lyrics fest with the man who has session tapes on reel-to-reel.

Can't wait for breakfast tomorrow morning. For I shall dine on the prince of foods - the muffin.

It only counts if it is served at St. Alphonso's Pancake Breakfast.

Get on your feet and do the funky Alphonso, rub it.

Nellie_Fox
04-05-2008, 12:37 AM
First one that can write their whole name in the snow with urine wins.I need an answer pretty quickly; the last of the snow is melting away. Do I have to dot the i ?

BadBobbyJenks
04-05-2008, 05:12 AM
I thought it was pretty clear that the point of this thread was to wonder when BA would be played

People bitched, as people will, and then there became a new point to make

Thanks for playing along at home, though.:rolleyes:

Im just saying as soon as I saw this thread I knew where it was headed.

fquaye149
04-05-2008, 08:34 AM
Im just saying as soon as I saw this thread I knew where it was headed.

Thank god you opened it, then!

cheezheadsoxfan
04-05-2008, 10:43 AM
Ozzie will wait for a critical point in a close game, send BA in as a pinch hitter after he's been sitting on the bench for a week or more and when he fails promptly send him down.

voodoochile
04-05-2008, 10:46 AM
Ozzie will wait for a critical point in a close game, send BA in as a pinch hitter after he's been sitting on the bench for a week or more and when he fails promptly send him down.
Cool. So then it will be Quentin and Swisher in the OF like it should be. Great!

btrain929
04-05-2008, 10:55 AM
The real question is: if Thome stays healthy and actually gives restructures his option ala Uribe to make it cheaper (since I don't think he's worth 13 mil), do we trade Dye? I can't picture ANOTHER year of him in RF....

Ultimately, the perfect scenario would be Swisher in LF, Quentin in RF, and either Anderson/Owens/CF'er acquired thru trade or FA in CF. But this is only possible if Thome walks and Dye goes to DH.

If that doesn't happen, then what?

voodoochile
04-05-2008, 11:00 AM
The real question is: if Thome stays healthy and actually gives restructures his option ala Uribe to make it cheaper (since I don't think he's worth 13 mil), do we trade Dye? I can't picture ANOTHER year of him in RF....

Ultimately, the perfect scenario would be Swisher in LF, Quentin in RF, and either Anderson/Owens/CF'er acquired thru trade or FA in CF. But this is only possible if Thome walks and Dye goes to DH.

If that doesn't happen, then what?

I don't think the Player's union would allow him to restructure it. It's guaranteed if he hits his PA numbers. They wouldn't allow PayRod to do it when he tried to get traded to Boston.

And honestly, why would Thome do that? If he earns the money, he should get it.

Jjav829
04-05-2008, 11:01 AM
That's not what I said. I was fed up with Ozzie starting crap in CF and said that was a sign he would be starting crap in CF throughout the year.

Right, and I said give it a few games before you overreact and assume Ozzie will start Ramirez in center every game. Well, it's been a few games, and looked who has started the past two games...

Jjav829
04-05-2008, 11:02 AM
I thought it was pretty clear that the point of this thread was to wonder when BA would be played

People bitched, as people will, and then there became a new point to make

Thanks for playing along at home, though.:rolleyes:

Yes, people will certainly bitch, won't they...

As to your "question," BA will get his first at-bat when Ozzie decides to give him his first at-bat. Question answered. Shall I lock this thread now? I mean there's really no point to it now. That's the answer. Any further conversation would simply be bitching about how that at-bat came too late or BA isn't being given a fair shot, and you've made your feelings about bitching clear.

kittle42
04-05-2008, 12:29 PM
Yes, people will certainly bitch, won't they...

As to your "question," BA will get his first at-bat when Ozzie decides to give him his first at-bat. Question answered. Shall I lock this thread now? I mean there's really no point to it now. That's the answer. Any further conversation would simply be bitching about how that at-bat came too late or BA isn't being given a fair shot, and you've made your feelings about bitching clear.


Has this much time ever, ever been spent discussing the merits of the 25th man on any roster?

champagne030
04-05-2008, 01:17 PM
The real question is: if Thome stays healthy and actually gives restructures his option ala Uribe to make it cheaper (since I don't think he's worth 13 mil), do we trade Dye? I can't picture ANOTHER year of him in RF....

Ultimately, the perfect scenario would be Swisher in LF, Quentin in RF, and either Anderson/Owens/CF'er acquired thru trade or FA in CF. But this is only possible if Thome walks and Dye goes to DH.

If that doesn't happen, then what?

The Phillies will be giving us $5.5M if he reaches his guarantee. $7.5M for Thome isn't a bad deal. I'd just deal Dye if Carlos proves his worth this season.

Optipessimism
04-05-2008, 01:50 PM
Yes, people will certainly bitch, won't they...

As to your "question," BA will get his first at-bat when Ozzie decides to give him his first at-bat. Question answered. Shall I lock this thread now? I mean there's really no point to it now. That's the answer. Any further conversation would simply be bitching about how that at-bat came too late or BA isn't being given a fair shot, and you've made your feelings about bitching clear.
What's wrong with bitching?

Brian Anderson rules.

It's Dankerific
04-05-2008, 02:04 PM
I don't think the Player's union would allow him to restructure it. It's guaranteed if he hits his PA numbers. They wouldn't allow PayRod to do it when he tried to get traded to Boston.

And honestly, why would Thome do that? If he earns the money, he should get it.

Thome has enough money, doesn't he? Couldnt they add an extra year (at some low amount) to pass it through the players union??

fquaye149
04-05-2008, 02:57 PM
Right, and I said give it a few games before you overreact and assume Ozzie will start Ramirez in center every game. Well, it's been a few games, and looked who has started the past two games...

You keep characterizing it as me saying that "ramirez will start in center every game"

I never said that nor did I believe it. What I did believe is that Anderson wouldn't get any playing time b/c Ozzie would choose to play non-CFer's as his backup to Swisher.

I think it's not to early to say that is almost certainly the case this year.

fquaye149
04-05-2008, 02:58 PM
Cool. So then it will be Quentin and Swisher in the OF like it should be. Great!

Except someone has to back up Swisher and Quentin.

There is no one on this team besides Anderson who ought to be starting in CF.

Owens is an acceptable backup in LF, perhaps, but aside from Swisher, Anderson is the only person on this team capable of playing CF.

fquaye149
04-05-2008, 03:00 PM
Yes, people will certainly bitch, won't they...

As to your "question," BA will get his first at-bat when Ozzie decides to give him his first at-bat. Question answered. Shall I lock this thread now? I mean there's really no point to it now. That's the answer. Any further conversation would simply be bitching about how that at-bat came too late or BA isn't being given a fair shot, and you've made your feelings about bitching clear.

Do whatever you will. It's not going to ruin my day one way or another.

And hell, as long as we keep winning nothing Ozzie does one way or another will ruin my day either.

:shrug:

fquaye149
04-05-2008, 03:00 PM
Has this much time ever, ever been spent discussing the merits of the 25th man on any roster?

It's almost equal to the amount of time you alone spend discussing grammar on an internet baseball web site

Sockinchisox
04-05-2008, 03:29 PM
Might not be today, Quentin in LF, Swisher in Center again.

It's Dankerific
04-05-2008, 03:32 PM
Might not be today, Quentin in LF, Swisher in Center again.

I was just going to post that. I AM SO SURPRISED!!!!

But at least Toby gets an atbat, and Ozuna too. After they bat, will BA be the only one without one?? (other than the pitchers =) )

russ99
04-05-2008, 04:06 PM
Ha! The semi-injured Toby Hall gets a start (and at-bat) before your golden boy. :D:

BadBobbyJenks
04-05-2008, 04:33 PM
Thank god you opened it, then!


Thank god I did!

Madscout
04-05-2008, 05:05 PM
After that throw by Quentin in the 4th, I think he will be in the lineup for a while. Anderson will have to be coming in for Swisher.

fquaye149
04-05-2008, 05:15 PM
Might not be today, Quentin in LF, Swisher in Center again.

That's fine with me. Just keep Ramirez...and later Owens...out of CF

Jjav829
04-05-2008, 05:31 PM
You keep characterizing it as me saying that "ramirez will start in center every game"

I never said that nor did I believe it. What I did believe is that Anderson wouldn't get any playing time b/c Ozzie would choose to play non-CFer's as his backup to Swisher.

I think it's not to early to say that is almost certainly the case this year.

Man, fquaye, you're all over the board here.

You didn't want Ramirez in center. You thought Swisher in center was fine. I said to relax and wait a few games to see if Ramirez would play in center. Sure enough, the last 3 games Swisher has started in center, and the way Quentin is playing, that may continue for a while.

You overreacted. End of story. I tried to tell you that just because Ramirez was starting in center on Opening Day, that didn't mean he was the everyday starting centerfielder.

But dude, Ozzie shuffles ...like...lineups all the...like...time.

Anyway, it's just opening day...like...what reason...like...do you have to think Ramirez is the STARTING CF

No reason! quit jumping to conclusions!

2005!!!!

Exactly. :cool:

It's ok. We all get things wrong or jump to conclusions early at times. I've done it plenty of times. Just admit you rushed to judgment and move on.

Jjav829
04-05-2008, 05:32 PM
After that throw by Quentin in the 4th, I think he will be in the lineup for a while. Anderson will have to be coming in for Swisher.

Swisher is looking pretty good in center. Maybe in for Dye at times, but not Swisher.

BadBobbyJenks
04-05-2008, 05:40 PM
Carlos Quentin deserves to play every day.
Looks fantastic today.

boconnor811
04-05-2008, 05:51 PM
Anyone else think the long foul ball he hit looked fair?

fquaye149
04-05-2008, 08:28 PM
Man, fquaye, you're all over the board here.

You didn't want Ramirez in center. You thought Swisher in center was fine. I said to relax and wait a few games to see if Ramirez would play in center. Sure enough, the last 3 games Swisher has started in center, and the way Quentin is playing, that may continue for a while.

You overreacted. End of story. I tried to tell you that just because Ramirez was starting in center on Opening Day, that didn't mean he was the everyday starting centerfielder.




Really? REALLY? You think me saying that Ozzie was an idiot to start Ramirez in CF was overreacting?

Ok. :shrug:

jabrch
04-06-2008, 12:23 AM
Swisher is looking pretty good in center. Maybe in for Dye at times, but not Swisher.

Weren't we told by those who know a lot that Swisher can't play CF?

champagne030
04-06-2008, 12:32 AM
Weren't we told by those who know a lot that Swisher can't play CF?

We were also told, by internet GM's and Ozzie that Alexei can play CF too. We now know - that to be false. I'm not sure if that falls in the too early to make a comment or it's too late to make a statement column. :rolleyes:

JB98
04-06-2008, 01:43 AM
We were also told, by internet GM's and Ozzie that Alexei can play CF too. We now know - that to be false. I'm not sure if that falls in the too early to make a comment or it's too late to make a statement column. :rolleyes:

Ramirez played two games in CF and did fine. Obviously, we are better off with Quentin in the lineup because he is a better hitter.

Swisher's defense is CF has been surprisingly good. I was hoping for adequate. He's been better than adequate thus far.

The club is 3-0 with Quentin starting in LF and Swisher starting in CF.

Frater Perdurabo
04-06-2008, 08:26 AM
Given that Swisher keeps getting on base and is playing adequately in CF, and given that Quentin is hitting well and is quite good with the glove, and given that Dye is hitting well, I'm fine with the lineup and OF as is.

If this OF continues to excel, can we all agree it would be stupid to "tinker" just to get Owens in the lineup?

It would be smart, however, to use BA as a late-inning defensive replacement in CF (moving Quentin to right and Swisher to left) to protect a lead.

FedEx227
04-06-2008, 11:23 AM
Given that Swisher keeps getting on base and is playing adequately in CF, and given that Quentin is hitting well and is quite good with the glove, and given that Dye is hitting well, I'm fine with the lineup and OF as is.

If this OF continues to excel, can we all agree it would be stupid to "tinker" just to get Owens in the lineup?

It would be smart, however, to use BA as a late-inning defensive replacement in CF (moving Quentin to right and Swisher to left) to protect a lead.

Of course... but has that ever stopped Ozzie?

fquaye149
04-06-2008, 11:26 AM
Ramirez played two games in CF and did fine. .

False

Jjav829
04-06-2008, 11:56 AM
Really? REALLY? You think me saying that Ozzie was an idiot to start Ramirez in CF was overreacting?

Ok. :shrug:

Did I say that? You love to put words into my mouth. You overreacted and thought Ramirez would be the starting centerfielder. I said give it a few games to see who winds up in center, because Ramirez being in center on Opening Day doesn't mean he will be there every game, most games, or even ever again. Once again...


But dude, Ozzie shuffles ...like...lineups all the...like...time.

Anyway, it's just opening day...like...what reason...like...do you have to think Ramirez is the STARTING CF

No reason! quit jumping to conclusions!

2005!!!!

Exactly. :cool:

Brian26
04-06-2008, 11:59 AM
Swisher is looking pretty good in center. Maybe in for Dye at times, but not Swisher.

Swisher doesn't have blazing speed, but he reads the ball well off the bat and gets good jumps. Still, having Anderson in CF for the 8th or 9th and moving Swisher to LF isn't a bad idea.

fquaye149
04-06-2008, 12:06 PM
Did I say that? You love to put words into my mouth. You overreacted and thought Ramirez would be the starting centerfielder.

I never said that


I said give it a few games to see who winds up in center, because Ramirez being in center on Opening Day doesn't mean he will be there every game, most games, or even ever again. Once again...That was never my concern

As for what I said:

Ramirez started the first two games until it became obvious he wasn't cutting mustard. Now Swisher has started the last 3 games.

Why didn't Swisher start one of the first two games of the year? Because he didn't start out the season as the starting CF. He replaced Ramirez as starting CF when it became obvious Ramirez wasn't up to it (despite Ozzie's hopes).

Now Ramirez is no longer the starting CF. Just you wait till Owens gets back. You know what's going to happen to our current starting CFer...

Jjav829
04-06-2008, 12:08 PM
Swisher doesn't have blazing speed, but he reads the ball well off the bat and gets good jumps. Still, having Anderson in CF for the 8th or 9th and moving Swisher to LF isn't a bad idea.

Right, you don't remove Swisher for defensive purposes at any time. He's too good of a hitter and a fine fielder at any position.

Elephant
04-06-2008, 12:10 PM
I do like TCQ's bat late though. Clutch Quentin!

Jjav829
04-06-2008, 12:22 PM
I never said that

But dude, Ozzie shuffles ...like...lineups all the...like...time.

Anyway, it's just opening day...like...what reason...like...do you have to think Ramirez is the STARTING CF

No reason! quit jumping to conclusions!

2005!!!!

Then maybe you aught to be more careful in your sarcastic posts.

Ramirez started the first two games until it became obvious he wasn't cutting mustard. Now Swisher has started the last 3 games.

Why didn't Swisher start one of the first two games of the year? Because he didn't start out the season as the starting CF. He replaced Ramirez as starting CF when it became obvious Ramirez wasn't up to it (despite Ozzie's hopes).

Now Ramirez is no longer the starting CF. Just you wait till Owens gets back. You know what's going to happen to our current starting CFer...

LOL, this is all semantics. "The starting centerfielder." There is no official title. Ozzie doesn't have to declare a player the starter. It's a game by game lineup. Players can be substituted in and out at any time. Last season Ozuna started in left field on Opening Day. Was he the "starting left fielder?" No, he was a player who got one start in left field. And Scott Podsednik was the player who started the next game in left.

Anyway, in the other thread I said wait a week before crucifying Ozzie for his theoretical bullheadedness in sticking with Ramirez. And so far, Swisher has started the last 3 games.

So...everything is good now, right? In your owns words "Ramirez started the first two games until it became obvious he wasn't cutting mustard. Now Swisher has started the last 3 games." So, Ozzie made the appropriate move. He gave Ramirez a brief chance, wasn't thrilled with what he saw, and gave someone else a chance. It's all worked out.

I see you're already beginning to get worked up about Owens starting in center. Once again, let's actually wait until the move happens before getting all pissy about the chance that it might happen.

'I don't have any date in mind, and I won't hear a date until we say, 'We'll bring him back today,' '' Williams said. ''But it's going to be awhile. He hasn't played in awhile, so he has to get back in game shape. He's got to get his stroke back. We have to assess where the team is at that point and whether that still is a fit.''

Vernam
04-06-2008, 01:23 PM
I'm honestly not trying to fan the flames here, but did Ramirez do anything to show he's overmatched in CF? He had to dive for one ball that should have been a routine catch, but otherwise I didn't see him butcher plays in the first two games. (In Spring Training, I did see him go all Mackowiak on a couple of balls that should've been caught in the gap.)

I'd still like to see how he hits against someone not named Sabathia or Carmona. But he looks more comfortable at 2B than the OF, and I bet that's where he ends up unless they send him down -- i.e., unless Uribe suddenly learns to take pitches or Richar tears up AAA.

From what Swisher has shown in CF, reports of his not being up to the task were pretty exaggerated. He's damn sure no Mackowiak.

Vernam

santo=dorf
04-06-2008, 01:28 PM
False
As long as Ramirez caught the ball, JB thinks he did fine. Of course if Anderson caught a flyball but looked like he was spinning plates at the circus, you better believe JB would be the first one to rip Anderson for looking silly.

jabrch
04-06-2008, 01:31 PM
From what Swisher has shown in CF, reports of his not being up to the task were pretty exaggerated. He's damn sure no Mackowiak.

After 45 innings of baseball, I am not sure I know anything more than I did before we played any innings - which is about the same as I knew about Ramirez over his career, and about the same as I know about Swisher's ability to play CF.

I'm all for improvements, just not for change for change's sake. Just because a player was bad last year doesn't mean someone totally unproven will be better and it doesn't mean he will be bad again this year.

I'm really interested to see a few more innings of Ramirez before I can draw any conclusion about him. Same for Swish in CF. Same for Rirchar/Owens/BA at the dish. So guys will get opportunties when they materialize and we will learn more then.

JB98
04-06-2008, 01:33 PM
False

Bull****. Ramirez made every play he was supposed to make in CF. He took a seat on the bench because he looked overmatched at the plate, not because of anything that happened defensively.

It is absolute ****ing bull**** that you started a thread three games into the season accusing Ozzie of burying Anderson on the bench.

Your agenda is so transparent, yet you continue to deny that there is an agenda. It's ridiculous.

kittle42
04-06-2008, 03:04 PM
It's almost equal to the amount of time you alone spend discussing grammar on an internet baseball web site

Hey, I just wish people hadn't been sleeping in 4th grade when they should have been learning.

kittle42
04-06-2008, 03:09 PM
Your agenda is so transparent, yet you continue to deny that there is an agenda. It's ridiculous.

Just as ridiculous as the agenda itself.

guillen4life13
04-06-2008, 04:24 PM
If anything bad happens to your eyes, after a conflict with anyone named Nanook, you must go trudging across the tundra, mile after...

Dog doo snow cones in your eyes? Great googly-moogly!

On topic: I think it's pretty unreasonable to say "Brian has had his fair shakes of chances" because in 2007 he got a total of 17 AB's at the big league level, and this year he hasn't had a single one yet. 2006 he showed signs of improvement and I still see Brian as a viable major league starting CF sometime in the quite near future. If a 24 year old rookie CF struggles his first year, I don't think it's time yet to close the book on him. The book was closed for the last two years due to Ozzie, his [BA's] attitude, and injury. Now, by the looks of things, two out of those three obstacles have been taken care of. The one that hasn't been resolved is the one that's out of his control.

If BA is to sit in order for Quentin and Swisher to get AB's, then I won't complain because, right now if Quentin were riding the bench consistently (and it's shown that he's healthy), I would be pushing an agenda for him to get on the field also. However, if BA is to sit in order for Owens and Ramirez to get consistent AB's, then it's my opinion that BA is (again) getting shafted. This year is one of the few years where, at least with position players, there are too many surpluses in different areas of people who are either proven at the MLB level or deserve an extended look.

As I have something of an agenda in Brian's favor (until he gets a fair look at this level again, which means a little more than just PH or defensive appearances here and there), there are those who seem to flat out hate him, and won't produce any viable reasons to say why he shouldn't get a chance over someone like Owens or Ramirez, neither of whom is a natural CF nor a very proven offensive commodity at this level. BA should at least get an equal chance at CF as Owens (and much more of a chance than Alexei) instead of rotting away on the bench and getting rusty. Because then when he finally gets his PH AB's ("chances" as they seem to be called by certain people) he will be so rusty and likely going against some elite relievers in the AL. That's quite the situation to put a rusty young player up into. Rather have him in AAA getting AB's and either sell himself to another team or be ready when someone gets injured.

Munch: Brian was a blue chip prospect in 2005. He was ranked higher than McCarthy, Fields, Chris Young, Gio, Sweeney, etc. He was the Sox' top prospect after '04, and after '05, for some reason Phil Rogers considered Jenks to still be a prospect, even after the playoffs.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/features/04top10s/whitesox.html
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/features/05top10s/whitesox.html
(there's a pair of links to back up what I just said... it could be a novel concept...who knows?) 5-tools, great build for a major league player. To be fair, the links above are prospect ratings by Phil Rogers, so take at face value. At the time, they weren't too far off the mark though.

Your arguing tactics remind me of a certain irrational animated 5th grader from small-town Colorado that appears on Comedy Central every Wednesday evening. One thing's for sure: in your own mind you will never lose an argument, no matter what counter-argument is presented. I'm not guaranteeing success from BA, but for people to say that over the last calendar year he hasn't been given a fair chance (while Mackowiak, et al., patrolled CF) is beyond me. If last year, BA had been given a consistent 200AB's and stunk it up again, then I would be off his wagon. But he wasn't, and then he got injured in AAA. I really hope that, even if it's on another team, BA does really well just so that you can eat the **** you've put out.

fquaye149
04-06-2008, 04:39 PM
Bull****. Ramirez made every play he was supposed to make in CF. He took a seat on the bench because he looked overmatched at the plate, not because of anything that happened defensively.

It is absolute ****ing bull**** that you started a thread three games into the season accusing Ozzie of burying Anderson on the bench.

Your agenda is so transparent, yet you continue to deny that there is an agenda. It's ridiculous.

Sure he made plays. He also ran into JD and terribly misread a fly ball (requiring him to dive to make the catch).

He didn't make any errors, but he sure didn't look like any kind of CF

Vernam
04-06-2008, 04:40 PM
Bull****. Ramirez made every play he was supposed to make in CF. He took a seat on the bench because he looked overmatched at the plate, not because of anything that happened defensively.That's what I was getting at when I asked whether Ramirez had made some bad play in CF that I missed on Monday or Wednesday. I'm assuming not . . .

I still think he'd get another good look before they'd send him down, but I wouldn't be surprised if that look is at 2B and not CF. Mainly because it seems like Quentin has suddenly (though obviously not necessarily permanently) jumped ahead of the other OFs who aren't named Swisher or Dye.

Vernam

russ99
04-06-2008, 04:53 PM
However, if BA is to sit in order for Owens and Ramirez to get consistent AB's, then it's my opinion that BA is (again) getting shafted. This year is one of the few years where, at least with position players, there are too many surpluses in different areas of people who are either proven at the MLB level or deserve an extended look.

As I have something of an agenda in Brian's favor (until he gets a fair look at this level again, which means a little more than just PH or defensive appearances here and there), there are those who seem to flat out hate him, and won't produce any viable reasons to say why he shouldn't get a chance over someone like Owens or Ramirez, neither of whom is a natural CF nor a very proven offensive commodity at this level. BA should at least get an equal chance at CF as Owens (and much more of a chance than Alexei) instead of rotting away on the bench and getting rusty. Because then when he finally gets his PH AB's ("chances" as they seem to be called by certain people) he will be so rusty and likely going against some elite relievers in the AL. That's quite the situation to put a rusty young player up into. Rather have him in AAA getting AB's and either sell himself to another team or be ready when someone gets injured.

My only issue is this: Owens (as a lead-off hitter with 50+ steal baserunning abilities) and Ramirez have a vastly higher upsides than Anderson. The only things Anderson has over them at this point in their early development stages is a better outfield arm and more power. (Don't get me started again with the Pods-driven power over speed argument)

If we're all Sox fans here, why would a Sox fan crusade the cause of a player who's had his chance (416 MLB ABs) and failed both on and off the field, and by doing so stifle the opportunity for the Sox to develop 2 players who could excel at hard-to-fill positions.

I guess where we disagree is that you think despite Brian's track record he can be a star CF. I don't think that's the case. The past rosters of many teams are littered with can't miss guys who couldn't turn the corner and become MLB regulars for whatever reason.

fquaye149
04-06-2008, 05:00 PM
My only issue is this: Owens (as a lead-off hitter with 50+ steal baserunning abilities) and Ramirez have a vastly higher upsides than Anderson. The only things Anderson has over them at this point in their early development stages is a better outfield arm and more power. (Don't get me started again with the Pods-driven power over speed argument)

If we're all Sox fans here, why would a Sox fan crusade the cause of a player who's had his chance (416 MLB ABs) and failed both on and off the field, and by doing so stifle the opportunity for the Sox to develop 2 players who could excel at hard-to-fill positions.

I guess where we disagree is that you think despite Brian's track record he can be a star CF. I don't think that's the case. The past rosters of many teams are littered with can't miss guys who couldn't turn the corner and become MLB regulars for whatever reason.

Because

a.) Over the course of those 416 AB's he showed improvement to #'s you could at least stomach

b.) Ramirez seems to have no business in CF right now even though I would agree that his ceiling is higher than BA's

c.) Owens ceiling is really not all that high, and right now he doesn't represent a significant improvement over BA in any category but SB speed. He also represents a huge downgrade in the most important aspect of CF: defense

Further: there's no evidence (or even anecdotal scouting) to suggest that Owens will excel at CF nor that Ramirez belongs in an MLB OF at the moment.

So let's not get carried away

guillen4life13
04-06-2008, 08:36 PM
Sorry: double post.

guillen4life13
04-06-2008, 08:59 PM
Because

a.) Over the course of those 416 AB's he showed improvement to #'s you could at least stomach

b.) Ramirez seems to have no business in CF right now even though I would agree that his ceiling is higher than BA's

c.) Owens ceiling is really not all that high, and right now he doesn't represent a significant improvement over BA in any category but SB speed. He also represents a huge downgrade in the most important aspect of CF: defense

Further: there's no evidence (or even anecdotal scouting) to suggest that Owens will excel at CF nor that Ramirez belongs in an MLB OF at the moment.

So let's not get carried away

Said it all for me. Owens would be better suited for LF. For now and for the future there is already someone to take LF: Quentin (now) and Swisher for whenever Dye leaves (if you want to put the best defensive OF out there of, from left to right, Swisher, Anderson, Quentin). Moreover, Owens is a year older than Anderson.

Russ: I suppose it's all about how we define "chances" and "failure." What constitutes mouthing off can, in a different situation, have a very good effect (see: Noah, Joakim). He wanted an opportunity that he wasn't getting and he was immature in the way he handled it. Brian has since admitted his immaturity and so far this spring and into the season hasn't said a single thing otherwise that I'm aware of. As for the 416 plate chances, let's see some good Sox players who weren't so hot in their first 500 major league AB's:
-Nick Swisher (check out his 2005 compared to what he has become now)
-Jermaine Dye (took over 700 AB's before he started to actually put up nice numbers)
-Carl Everett (had a really nice 98-00 then a good 2003, but was a good run producer in his not so good years still).

None of the above are as good defensively as Anderson, and, while it would be nice for him to be as good as Dye, Swisher, and to a lesser extent Everett, I don't expect that of him. We're not asking BA to be the next Griffey, Dye, or Swisher. As a CFer his defense is most important, and as long as he isn't a black hole in the lineup, he wouldn't be a liability. Get .270/.340 with 15+ home runs and to me Brian Anderson would be a success. Anything more is a surplus. I still think he's capable of much more than just .270 if he can get consistent at bats. You need the consistency to grow as a player, and I think it's now or never. If he fails after a good look, then get someone else or make him the defensive outfielding sub on a decent team.

As I said earlier, if Anderson loses starts to Quentin/Swisher/Dye, then that's just tough luck because Quentin's ceiling is higher and he's also a good defensive player. The OF depth chart should go Swisher/Dye/Quentin/Anderson/Owens/Ramirez.

fquaye149
04-06-2008, 10:18 PM
First At Bat!!!!

Madscout
04-06-2008, 10:18 PM
First AB 10:17 ET April 6th.

NardiWasHere
04-06-2008, 10:18 PM
APRIL 6th 9:20 PM CENTRAL TIME....


BUT ITS ONLY A PINCH HIT!!! CONSPIRACY AGAINST BA!!!! OZZIE IS A FOOL!!!! SETTING HIM UP TO FAIL!!!!

thomas35forever
04-06-2008, 10:18 PM
Time to close this thread?

MaggPipes
04-06-2008, 10:19 PM
I will guess 4-6-08 on Sunday night baseball, in the 8th inning.

TornLabrum
04-06-2008, 10:19 PM
Time to close this trainwreck.

fquaye149
04-06-2008, 10:19 PM
APRIL 6th 9:20 PM CENTRAL TIME....


BUT ITS ONLY A PINCH HIT!!! CONSPIRACY AGAINST BA!!!! OZZIE IS A FOOL!!!! SETTING HIM UP TO FAIL!!!!

AGREED!