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View Full Version : Bobby Cox - Strategy tonight


Jjav829
04-03-2008, 10:29 PM
Cool move just now in the 10th inning. The Pirates have 1st and 3rd with 1 out for with Adam LaRoche, a lefty, coming up and Chris Resop, a righty, on the mound. The Braves, I believe, only had two pitchers remaining in their bullpen - Royce Ring and Peter Moylan. Cox wanted the lefty to face LaRoche, so what did he do? He pulled Matt Diaz from the game, sent Resop to left field and brought in Ring to face LaRoche.

Ring just K'ed LaRoche, and now Resop is coming back in from left to pitch.

Resop was allowed to warm up again, which is weird. Nady just singled to drive in the go-ahead run.

Anyway, thoughts on the strategy? I like it, even though Resop did end up giving up the go-ahead run.

Lip Man 1
04-03-2008, 11:08 PM
Jjav:

The White Sox have pulled that one off before:

May 15, 1951 - A testament to the managerial genius of Sox skipper Paul Richards. It was thirty years since the league saw a move like this. In the 9th inning of a game in Boston where the Sox were winning 7 - 6, relief pitcher Harry Dorish was removed in favor of Billy Pierce to face the left handed hitting Ted Williams, only Dorish wasn’t removed from the game! He was moved to third base. Pierce retired Williams on a pop up, then was taken out of the game and Dorish put back on the mound. Boston eventually tied the game but the Sox would have the last laugh, winning 9 - 7 in eleven innings. The win marked the start of a 14 game win streak, with eleven of the wins on the road. On May 30th after sweeping the St. Louis Browns, the Sox record stood at 26 - 9!

June 25, 1953 - Sox manager Paul Richards was regarded as one of the smartest guys to ever lead a team in baseball history. Here's what I mean...with the Sox going for a series sweep over New York and leading 4-2 in the 9th inning, Richards brings in pitcher Harry Dorish to relieve Billy Pierce. Only Richards doesn't remove Pierce from the game! He moves him to first base! After Dorish retires the two batters he faces, Pierce is brought back to the mound to end the game.


Lip

WhiteSox5187
04-03-2008, 11:16 PM
Cubs did that a couple of times with Maddux in the Zimmer years I think.

manders_01
04-03-2008, 11:33 PM
I never realized that could be done but when I break it down step by step, it makes sense.

fquaye149
04-03-2008, 11:51 PM
it's so rare that a manager can really do something noteworthy to help his team win, that it's really cool when someone like Cox pulls something liek this off.

This is straight out of the baseball trivia books

Huisj
04-04-2008, 12:13 AM
I remember watching a state championship high school game here in Michigan a number of years ago where one of the teams had pretty much blown their pitching staff in the quarter and semifinal games. Toward the end of the game, their coach started doing these kinds of switches like crazy where he'd have the 3rd baseman come and pitch to a couple guys, maybe bring the left fielder in for one guy, switch back to the 3rd baseman, then use the first baseman. It was hilarious, but wow did the other team start getting angry about it, especially their obnoxious fans and parents--they were screaming and yelling at the umpire for allowing it to happen as if it was illegal. It was quite a game.

DSpivack
04-04-2008, 12:47 AM
it's so rare that a manager can really do something noteworthy to help his team win, that it's really cool when someone like Cox pulls something liek this off.

This is straight out of the baseball trivia books

The Braves still lost the game. :tongue:

fquaye149
04-04-2008, 12:55 AM
The Braves still lost the game. :tongue:


:firebobbycox:

StillMissOzzie
04-04-2008, 12:56 AM
Jjav:

The White Sox have pulled that one off before:

May 15, 1951 - A testament to the managerial genius of Sox skipper Paul Richards. It was thirty years since the league saw a move like this. In the 9th inning of a game in Boston where the Sox were winning 7 - 6, relief pitcher Harry Dorish was removed in favor of Billy Pierce to face the left handed hitting Ted Williams, only Dorish wasn’t removed from the game! He was moved to third base. Pierce retired Williams on a pop up, then was taken out of the game and Dorish put back on the mound. Boston eventually tied the game but the Sox would have the last laugh, winning 9 - 7 in eleven innings. The win marked the start of a 14 game win streak, with eleven of the wins on the road. On May 30th after sweeping the St. Louis Browns, the Sox record stood at 26 - 9!

June 25, 1953 - Sox manager Paul Richards was regarded as one of the smartest guys to ever lead a team in baseball history. Here's what I mean...with the Sox going for a series sweep over New York and leading 4-2 in the 9th inning, Richards brings in pitcher Harry Dorish to relieve Billy Pierce. Only Richards doesn't remove Pierce from the game! He moves him to first base! After Dorish retires the two batters he faces, Pierce is brought back to the mound to end the game.


Lip


That's pretty cool that not only have the Sox done it twice, but with more than two years between the two maneuvers, the same two pitchers were involved!

SMO
:o:

downstairs
04-04-2008, 12:04 PM
I have never understood why this is not done more often. I seems like a move that fits perfectly with the modern platoon pitching methods.

People complain that managers (cough, Ozzie, cough) focus far too much on the righty/lefty matchups rather than finding a middle reliever in a groove that can knock down 3-6 outs for you quickly.

And, I think those complaints are mostly centered around the fact that you may be taking out a pitcher "in the zone" merely because he can't pitch lefties better than righties, etc.

Well... isn't this the best of all possible worlds?

What are the drawbacks? The "on deck" pitcher would always replace your worst fielder, I'd assume- so that's probably a draw.

Ideas??

Hokiesox
04-04-2008, 12:25 PM
Our picthers could play 2b or RF and we'd never know the difference.

D. TODD
04-04-2008, 12:34 PM
I recall Tony LaRussa doing this as well. I do think it can be utilizes more often then it is. It is a good gamble to take for one specific match up you may want.

SOXPHILE
04-04-2008, 02:10 PM
I remember watching a state championship high school game here in Michigan a number of years ago where one of the teams had pretty much blown their pitching staff in the quarter and semifinal games. Toward the end of the game, their coach started doing these kinds of switches like crazy where he'd have the 3rd baseman come and pitch to a couple guys, maybe bring the left fielder in for one guy, switch back to the 3rd baseman, then use the first baseman. It was hilarious, but wow did the other team start getting angry about it, especially their obnoxious fans and parents--they were screaming and yelling at the umpire for allowing it to happen as if it was illegal. It was quite a game.

How can those people be so stupid to think that the teams was breaking some kind of rule by doing this ? Cubs fans ?

I wonder if those fans and parents of the other team screaming that the rules were broken were the same, or related to, the two people I encountered at a Cubs game back in about 1999 or 2000: Braves vs Cubs, Maddux on the mound for Atlanta. Made a few comments about my Sox hat, and spent most of the game informing me of how much they admired Maddux, wished he was still a Cub, etc. Then, late in the game, Cox lifted him for a pinch hitter. The next half inning, after a couple of batters, they realized he was no longer pitching, and wondered why. We reminded them that he was pinch hit for in the top of the inning, because Atlanta had runners on base, and it was around the 7th inning. They proceeded to tell me that they knew there was a pinch hitter, but they thought the pitcher could still go back in after he was batted for, saying it was "kind of like that designated hitter thing". I swear I am not making that up.

Huisj
04-04-2008, 04:58 PM
How can those people be so stupid to think that the teams was breaking some kind of rule by doing this ? Cubs fans ?



I think it was a case of the volatile mix of over-zealous parents and a state championship high school game. Rational thought and behavior sadly seems to go out the window in those cases all too often--heck, it doesn't even have to be a big game for parents to act stupid.

TDog
04-04-2008, 05:08 PM
I don't follow the National League very closely, but the last time such a thing was done in the American League was 1970, I think, when "Sudden" Sam McDowell moving over to second base with two outs in the eighth inning. He actually got the putout to end the inning on a fielder's choice, I believe. He moved back to the mound to start the ninth to close it out. It wasn't a complete game, obviously. The reason he didn't get both the win and the save was because the save rule specifies that the save cannot go to the winning pitcher.

It would be easy to find the game on the Baseball Retrosheet, but I'm too lazy to look it up.

Of course, now in the American League, if a pitcher moves to another position, the team loses the DH for the remainder of the game.