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View Full Version : 4-2:Official Swing at everything and lose post game


Domeshot17
04-02-2008, 10:42 PM
I didn't see one, they don't deserve one, but alas it should be here. We gave 3 outs away in the 8th, there is the game. MAcdougal still sucks. Thats enough.

Jurr
04-02-2008, 10:42 PM
Wow, that was brutal.

WhiteSox5187
04-02-2008, 10:42 PM
Well, let's not make that a habit. Ugh.

WhiteSox5187
04-02-2008, 10:43 PM
Well, with my post we now have three postgame threads for a lousy ****ing game. Just awful. Just ****ing awful

manders_01
04-02-2008, 10:44 PM
Wow, that was brutal.

No doubt. At least there was some spark to the team on Monday. They sounded kinda flat tonight.

Tragg
04-02-2008, 10:44 PM
Love the title;

flailing away.

How many runs did the Indians score on those walks and hbps?
Did you notice, Ozzie?

MacDougal may have been Williams' worst trade ever, all in all.

LoveYourSuit
04-02-2008, 10:45 PM
You know, for most of us waiting for opening day is like a child waiting for Christmas............. Thank you White Sox for giving me Crap in a Box.

ChiSoxGirl
04-02-2008, 10:45 PM
The more things change, the more they stay the same. God, that was pathetic! :mad:

angiew
04-02-2008, 10:45 PM
OMG I REALLY hate Cleveland fans!:angry: I watched the game on mlb extra innings with Cleveland announcers and there was some loudmouthed jackass hollering the ENTIRE GAME!:angry: The guy was screaming "trader" at Thome everytime he came up....I swear I wanted to cut his throat.

and yes....McDougal does suck...ugh

Jurr
04-02-2008, 10:46 PM
No doubt. At least there was some spark to the team on Monday. They sounded kinda flat tonight.
Dude...it was the opener. Even the Pirates play up for the opener. However, the Pirates won, which is something the Sox may not do until next week.

WhiteSox5187
04-02-2008, 10:47 PM
Love the title;

flailing away.

How many runs did the Indians score on those walks and hbps?
Did you notice, Ozzie?

MacDougal may have been Williams' worst trade ever, all in all.
I still think the Todd Richie one was worse...who did we even give up for Mac?

Jurr
04-02-2008, 10:47 PM
OMG I REALLY hate Cleveland fans!:angry: I watched the game on mlb extra innings with Cleveland announcers and there was some loudmouthed jackass hollering the ENTIRE GAME!:angry: The guy was screaming "trader" at Thome everytime he came up....I swear I wanted to cut his throat.

and yes....McDougal does suck...ugh
I have always felt bad watching Browns fans get absolutely pummeled at Steelers games. I don't feel NEARLY as bad after sitting with them Monday and watching them tonight. Trash.

RockJock07
04-02-2008, 10:47 PM
very 07ish game. The DP's killed us early in the game. The bottom of the line-up needs to change, If Ozzie wants Rameriz in, he needs to put him some where else, not bunched up with crede and uribe.

Mac is bad, but that's not new, Javier also didn't pitch all that well. If mark and Javier are gonna struggle like this, this season is gonna be VERY long.

I'm not sure if I can even find a silver lining tonight

It's Time
04-02-2008, 10:48 PM
Ok, honestly, I did not expect this team to win more then 80 games with this rotation and bullpen.

Cleveland is better and that is really all there is to it. Swisher, Ramirez and a few others look like dog ****!

drewcifer
04-02-2008, 10:48 PM
Love the title;

flailing away.

How many runs did the Indians score on those walks and hbps?
Did you notice, Ozzie?

MacDougal may have been Williams' worst trade ever, all in all.

It's up there.

LoveYourSuit
04-02-2008, 10:48 PM
OMG I REALLY hate Cleveland fans!:angry: I watched the game on mlb extra innings with Cleveland announcers and there was some loudmouthed jackass hollering the ENTIRE GAME!:angry: The guy was screaming "trader" at Thome everytime he came up....I swear I wanted to cut his throat.

and yes....McDougal does suck...ugh


I don't get why they call him a trador when it is their broke ass town and broke as franchise that did not want to pay him the money.

Screw that damn town.

Cleveland is 2nd in line to Detroit as for future Nuclear Weapons test sites.

BRDSR
04-02-2008, 10:49 PM
At least I don't have to take time out of my busy day to update the magic number count I keep on the dry erase board by my desk.

Nothing positive to take away from that game. Win tomorrow, I guess. Danks=Stopper!

getonbckthr
04-02-2008, 10:49 PM
Macdougal should released or sent down ASAP.
Juan Uribe is bad, very bad.
Ramirez should only play when the temp. is over 60 degrees.
Will we see either THEE Carlos Quentin or Brian Anderson tommorow.

rainbow6
04-02-2008, 10:50 PM
MacDougal will be fine.
I'm certain he had lights out stuff in the bullpen.

Jesus.

TheOldRoman
04-02-2008, 10:50 PM
Walkerball lives!:angry:

Javy had a bad game, but I am not worried about him. Frustrating loss, but no big deal.

HaroMaster87
04-02-2008, 10:50 PM
Sure glad we improved the bullpen...

McDougal...bad
Thornton...bad
Dotel...bad

they better get their **** together...

Ramirez looks like mini-Uribe...
Swisher hitting lead-off doesn't seem like a good idea...
man, is Dye slow in the outfield...
Javy pitched scared tonight...

but other then that...lol

It's Dankerific
04-02-2008, 10:50 PM
Will we see either THEE Carlos Quentin or Brian Anderson tommorow.

They occasionally show BA hanging on the rail.

drewcifer
04-02-2008, 10:51 PM
very 07ish game. The DP's killed us early in the game. The bottom of the line-up needs to change, If Ozzie wants Rameriz in, he needs to put him some where else, not bunched up with crede and uribe.

Mac is bad, but that's not new, Javier also didn't pitch all that well. If mark and Javier are gonna struggle like this, this season is gonna be VERY long.

I'm not sure if I can even find a silver lining tonight

Less Joe Crede and Juan Uribe would be nice too. I know it's only 2 games - but one with his Flash type running skills (I can't remember back to back doubles that didn't score recently) and the other with his everyone knows I swing at high heat - both habitual pop-out masters if they do hit...

I'd just rather see us suck with young guys then see $10M of old hat, I guess.

angiew
04-02-2008, 10:51 PM
MacDougal will be fine.
I'm certain he had lights out stuff in the bullpen.

Jesus.

BAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!! I really did need a good laugh dude. LMAO

Oh, and the ONLY silver lining I can find is AJ had a good game at the plate....I guess that's good for something right? lol

It's Time
04-02-2008, 10:51 PM
Dotel and MacDougal are going to be released by the break. I didn't think this years pen could be worse then last years, but we shall see.

getonbckthr
04-02-2008, 10:52 PM
Less Joe Crede and Juan Uribe would be nice too. I know it's only 2 games - but one with his Flash type running skills (I can't remember back to back doubles that didn't score recently) and the other with his everyone knows I swing at high heat - both habitual pop-out masters if they do hit...

I'd just rather see us suck with young guys then see $10M of old hat, I guess.
Who would play 3rd? Pablo? AHHHHHHHHHHHH!

It's Dankerific
04-02-2008, 10:53 PM
Less Joe Crede and Juan Uribe would be nice too. I know it's only 2 games - but one with his Flash type running skills (I can't remember back to back doubles that didn't score recently) and the other with his everyone knows I swing at high heat - both habitual pop-out masters if they do hit...

I'd just rather see us suck with young guys then see old hat, I guess.

Did you even watch the play or just ESPN stat tracker? The ball was close to being caught, there was 0 outs. no reason for him to be trying to score.

Joe was robbed of an infield single today, even so, hes 2-8 with a 2b and rbi. better than alot of these ****ers on the team so far.

Jurr
04-02-2008, 10:53 PM
The Sox DID NOT need to start the season this way, especially the way last year went.

I love the fact that at least Thornton had the pills to just drill Sizemore, which may get something started tomorrow. If a team needs a kick in the arse, it's this geriatric lawn darts club we call the Sox.

Jaysox
04-02-2008, 10:53 PM
OMG I REALLY hate Cleveland fans!:angry: I watched the game on mlb extra innings with Cleveland announcers and there was some loudmouthed jackass hollering the ENTIRE GAME!:angry: The guy was screaming "trader" at Thome everytime he came up....I swear I wanted to cut his throat.

and yes....McDougal does suck...ugh

That game was awful. However, if nothing else, Juan and Alexei were more patient at the plate. Not that we did any better though. We left too many guys on. Oh, and I heard that guy too. He was shouting a bunch of stuff like "Kenny couldn't give you away Crede!" and something about Juan when he was on base, but I couldn't make it out. If i didn't hate cleveland before, I'm pretty sure I do now.

ksimpson14
04-02-2008, 10:53 PM
Better team won, faced a good pitcher. Most of the same faces in the bullpen. I don't know why people think getting 2 guys who were average in the NL would overhaul the bullpen. A guy like McDougal won't change over night.

Go get em tomorrow morning, can't wait for the team to get out of that ****hole in front of those scumbag fans. Hate the weighted schedule, too bad we have to go about 10 times a year.

WhiteSox5187
04-02-2008, 10:54 PM
Why did I think we had a chance to take two out of three from Cleveland? Why? ****, we might not win a game until next week.

getonbckthr
04-02-2008, 10:54 PM
The Sox DID NOT need to start the season this way, especially the way last year went.

I love the fact that at least Thornton had the pills to just drill Sizemore, which may get something started tomorrow. If a team needs a kick in the arse, it's this geriatric lawn darts club we call the Sox.
If that was with intent he should have gotten the numbers not the fingers.

fquaye149
04-02-2008, 10:54 PM
Sure glad we improved the bullpen...

McDougal...bad
Thornton...bad
Dotel...bad

they better get their **** together...

Ramirez looks like mini-Uribe...
Swisher hitting lead-off doesn't seem like a good idea...
man, is Dye slow in the outfield...
Javy pitched scared tonight...

but other then that...lol

Other than that, how was the show Mrs. Lincoln?

Jurr
04-02-2008, 10:54 PM
Dotel and MacDougal are going to be released by the break. I didn't think this years pen could be worse then last years, but we shall see.
Word to the wise.

DO NOT.....and I repeat DO NOT take relievers from the Royals ever again.

angiew
04-02-2008, 10:55 PM
And could it be more embarrassing listening to the Cleveland announcers going on and on about the "free swinging" Uribe?? Jeez....it's bad when the damn announcers see what obviously none of the mgmt does. Lord, I really don't want to dog on Ozzie or Kenny (there's enough of that without me adding to it), but Uribe is just KILLING me!

Tragg
04-02-2008, 10:56 PM
The pen will be okay. Not good enough, but okay.
It's this offense. It's that more frustrating with better talent sitting on the bench....but they don't hack at everything, like Ozzie likes it. Iguchi was 20 times better than Uribe and 1/2 the price, yet we give him away. How does this happen?

Re a question above, one guy the Sox gave up for MacDougal is now the Royals' #1 pitching prospect I believe. Few knew it at the time (I certainly had no idea what we gave up), as he was in A ball. But one poster who did - and I distinctly remember it. was Randar, probably the most knowledgable poster on the Sox minor leagues (but who doesn't post much, if at all, anymore), and he said that the Sox paid an extreme price for MacDougal at the time. And that was because of what we gave, not because of how terrible MacDougal would become.
Ritchie trade was bad, but we really didn't give up much, as it turned out.

RockJock07
04-02-2008, 10:56 PM
BAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!! I really did need a good laugh dude. LMAO

Oh, and the ONLY silver lining I can find is AJ had a good game at the plate....I guess that's good for something right? lol

That's true, AJ did look good.

I don't know, I just don't think we have the best people on the field to win. Right now, Joe and Juan look bad and slow, Pablo needs to be in, I don't care if he's a bench player, at this point that's all juan is. Maybe Joe needs to go down to AAA to get his swing right, Josh is just a better option at this point.

Also, maybe I'm slow but i just realized that spring means nothing. juan, Mac, and javy all had "great" spring's then poop on themselves when the games count.

itsnotrequired
04-02-2008, 10:57 PM
The more things change, the more they stay the same. God, that was pathetic! :mad:

The only good thing about playing in Cleveland is that the games start at 6:00 here so people can get to bed at a decent hour.

chisoxmike
04-02-2008, 10:58 PM
Ramirez needs to be sent down to AAA. MacDougal picked up right were his 2007 left off. The offense had their usual choke job with runners in scoring position.

Not a good way to "show the swagger."

drewcifer
04-02-2008, 10:58 PM
Who would play 3rd? Pablo? AHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Yeah, Pablo....that's it.

Did you even watch the play or just ESPN stat tracker? The ball was close to being caught, there was 0 outs. no reason for him to be trying to score.

Joe was robbed of an infield single today, even so, hes 2-8 with a 2b and rbi. better than alot of these ****ers on the team so far.

No. I was in the car driving home from work on Monday. But I was able to watch today and it changes nothing for me personally. He runs like ****. And he hits like ****.

Navarro's Talent
04-02-2008, 10:59 PM
Jeez, that was a bad game.

Congrats to Ramirez for his first hit.

rocky biddle
04-02-2008, 10:59 PM
The best part of the game was AJ blowing a kiss to that jerk-off heckler after his late HR.

That's it. Kinda pathetic.

It's Time
04-02-2008, 11:00 PM
I also realize it's only two games. However, that does not change the fact that this team is simply not good. Kenny threw some broken parts together in the pen and didn't land the guys he was shooting for in the off season.

Far too many holes (which most of realized coming into the season) and far too good of a division to make any serious noise in.

Not being a downer, just being a realist.

Jaysox
04-02-2008, 11:00 PM
That back end of the lineup isn't doing us any favors that's for sure.

WhiteSox5187
04-02-2008, 11:01 PM
That's true, AJ did look good.

I don't know, I just don't think we have the best people on the field to win. Right now, Joe and Juan look bad and slow, Pablo needs to be in, I don't care if he's a bench player, at this point that's all juan is. Maybe Joe needs to go down to AAA to get his swing right, Josh is just a better option at this point.

Also, maybe I'm slow but i just realized that spring means nothing. juan, Mac, and javy all had "great" spring's then poop on themselves when the games count.
Javy won fifteen games last year and out of the four runs he gave up one was because JD couldn't get to a flyball and it was a Grady Sizemore triple, the other was Uribe's inability to turn a DP. I'm not THAT worried about him. Mac and Uribe though haven't shown me anything that they have broken out of their bad habits...they better well win tommorrow. Getting swept by Cleveland is NOT a good way to start out a season.

Heffalump
04-02-2008, 11:02 PM
Crap.

I don't think Alexei ever experienced weather like this before. It was kind of comical how he was rubbing and blowing his hands on every pitch. I thought the batboy was going to run out and bring him mittens and a scarf.

Crap.

MacDougal...enough said.

Crap.

Hey Ozzie, how about trying a bunt or hit and run to get something started when we do find a way to get a guy on first? I thought you were going back to the basics this year? Looks they the same "everybody swing for the fences" BS as last year.

Crap.

It's only two games, but not a good start to the season. Hopefully we can pull one out tomorrow to avoid the sweep.

Shoeless_Jim
04-02-2008, 11:02 PM
No doubt. At least there was some spark to the team on Monday. They sounded kinda flat tonight.

did they sound flat?

angiew
04-02-2008, 11:03 PM
Grady is a freakin' stud....no doubt. Maybe when our lead off guy comes off the damn DL we'll get the lineup straightened out.

itsnotrequired
04-02-2008, 11:04 PM
Ramirez needs to be sent down to AAA. MacDougal picked up right were his 2007 left off. The offense had their usual choke job with runners in scoring position.

Not a good way to "show the swagger."

Quit farting around and write your recap.

:party:

Parrothead
04-02-2008, 11:04 PM
The best part of the game was AJ blowing a kiss to that jerk-off heckler after his late HR.

That's it. Kinda pathetic.

Perhaps you forgot that the pitching held Cleveland to only 7 runs !
The team ERA is going down ! :bandance::supernana::wooty::happyguy:

How is that everyone ? I am no longer a "dark cloud"

drewcifer
04-02-2008, 11:04 PM
Javy won fifteen games last year and out of the four runs he gave up one was because JD couldn't get to a flyball and it was a Grady Sizemore triple, the other was Uribe's inability to turn a DP. I'm not THAT worried about him. Mac and Uribe though haven't shown me anything that they have broken out of their bad habits...they better well win tommorrow. Getting swept by Cleveland is NOT a good way to start out a season.

Agree. I am totally sick of Juan's bull****. I'd rather see anyone play 2nd over him.

chisoxmike
04-02-2008, 11:05 PM
Quit farting around and write your recap.

:party:

It was up minutes after the game ended.:wink:

kevingrt
04-02-2008, 11:05 PM
Very blah '07-type game. At least the guys didn't appear to give up though. Keep on truckin' versus a solid Tribe 'pen.

Tragg
04-02-2008, 11:06 PM
Javy won fifteen games last year and out of the four runs he gave up one was because JD couldn't get to a flyball and it was a Grady Sizemore triple, the other was Uribe's inability to turn a DP. I'm not THAT worried about him.
I don't get to see the games, but when I read this, it's really scary -bad D that isn't showing up as errors.
We have young talent on the bench -play it for goodness sakes.

Viva Medias B's
04-02-2008, 11:06 PM
I did not see tonight's masterpiece because of work. I am not going to panic over an 0-2 start. I still believe that we are going to win 80-85 games and finish third. However, I will also say that if we happen to be as bad or worse this season as we were last season, a complete front office housecleaning is due. We are forever greatful for what the front office brought us in 2005, but that does not buy the front office subsequent seasons of futility as far as I'm concerned. Again, let me make it clear that I am not at all predicting a repeat of 2007 or worse. But that does not mean I am prepared to tolerate it either.

Jaysox
04-02-2008, 11:07 PM
I did not see tonight's masterpiece because of work. I am not going to panic over an 0-2 start. I still believe that we are going to win 80-85 games and finish third. However, I will also say that if we happen to be as bad or worse this season as we were last season, a complete front office housecleaning is due. We are forever greatful for what the front office brought us in 2005, but that does not buy the front office subsequent seasons of futility as far as I'm concerned. Again, let me make it clear that I am not at all predicting a repeat of 2007 or worse. But that does not mean I am prepared to tolerate it either.

QFT!

Dabchsx28
04-02-2008, 11:07 PM
Ramirez needs to be sent down to AAA. MacDougal picked up right were his 2007 left off. The offense had their usual choke job with runners in scoring position.

Not a good way to "show the swagger."
Y isn't Swisher in cf and Fields in left field. I know I'm gonna hear every1 say no no but Rameriez doesn't look like he's ever seen a breaking ball before. Atleast put Anderson out there.

chisoxmike
04-02-2008, 11:08 PM
Y isn't Swisher in cf and Fields in left field. I know I'm gonna hear every1 say no no but Rameriez doesn't look like he's ever seen a breaking ball before. Atleast put Anderson out there.

Fields in left would be a disaster. Put Swisher in LF and Anderson in CF. :bandance:

voodoochile
04-02-2008, 11:09 PM
Y isn't Swisher in cf and Fields in left field. I know I'm gonna hear every1 say no no but Rameriez doesn't look like he's ever seen a breaking ball before. Atleast put Anderson out there.

Quentin in Left, Swisher in center.

drewcifer
04-02-2008, 11:09 PM
Very blah '07-type game. At least the guys didn't appear to give up though. Keep on truckin' versus a solid Tribe 'pen.

That's just it, Kev - I don't think the Tribe's pen or starters are that scary. What's scary is us beating ourselves.

And Detroit...supposedly God's gift to offense, has been getting asses handed by KC.

This team needs to get out quick, fast, and play good baseball. And Ozzie needs to put the best players out there to do it (IMO).

Gammons Peter
04-02-2008, 11:09 PM
those were our two "good" starting pitchers, wait til we trot out the crappy ones

chisoxmike
04-02-2008, 11:09 PM
Quentin in Left, Swisher in center.

That works too. :bandance::bandance:

itsnotrequired
04-02-2008, 11:09 PM
It was up minutes after the game ended.:wink:

No link in the PTC winner thread? For shame...

:poke:

whitesoxfan
04-02-2008, 11:09 PM
Anderson better be starting tomorrow.

As for today's game, it was disgusting. Erase this crap and try to salvage 1 of 3 from these clowns.

chisoxmike
04-02-2008, 11:10 PM
No link in the PTC winner thread? For shame...

:poke:

The underline is blocked by the box. (If that makes sense) The link is there.

:happybday

infohawk
04-02-2008, 11:11 PM
Love the title;

flailing away.

How many runs did the Indians score on those walks and hbps?
Did you notice, Ozzie?

MacDougal may have been Williams' worst trade ever, all in all.
On the topic, this team would be far better off with Wasserman's performance versus MacDougal's potential.

itsnotrequired
04-02-2008, 11:12 PM
The underline is blocked by the box. (If that makes sense) The link is there.

:happybday

:?:

English spoken here.

:melissa

palehozenychicty
04-02-2008, 11:12 PM
well, I didn't see it, but I didn't have a positive feeling about this game after yesterday's pitching/ump fiasco.

Blueprint1
04-02-2008, 11:12 PM
Put Anderson in center. How long can Kenny live off 2005 is we are bad again this year?

manders_01
04-02-2008, 11:13 PM
Dude...it was the opener. Even the Pirates play up for the opener. However, the Pirates won, which is something the Sox may not do until next week.

Opener or not, I wanna know that the team is battling out there. I just didn't feel that tonight.

BTW - I'm a dudette. :tongue:

WhiteSox5187
04-02-2008, 11:14 PM
If we lose 90 games again Kenny SHOULD be fired...but Jerry doesn't fire GMs. And I don't think Kenny will quit.

palehozenychicty
04-02-2008, 11:14 PM
those were our two "good" starting pitchers, wait til we trot out the crappy ones



That's the one thing we haven't had since the WS year, is quality pitching across the board. It's went downhill.

southsideirish71
04-02-2008, 11:14 PM
Put Anderson in center. How long can Kenny live off 2005 is we are bad again this year?

Anderson is only on the team because Owens and his poderific groin are all ouchy right now. He will get as few ABs as humanly possible. In fact if Ozzie could activate SouthPaw he would over Anderson.

JB98
04-02-2008, 11:15 PM
That's true, AJ did look good.

I don't know, I just don't think we have the best people on the field to win. Right now, Joe and Juan look bad and slow, Pablo needs to be in, I don't care if he's a bench player, at this point that's all juan is. Maybe Joe needs to go down to AAA to get his swing right, Josh is just a better option at this point.

Also, maybe I'm slow but i just realized that spring means nothing. juan, Mac, and javy all had "great" spring's then poop on themselves when the games count.

I'm very surprised that Crede is taking crap on this board tonight. He did knock in one of our runs with a nice piece of hitting. He hustled and beat out an infield hit, only to be screwed by the umpire. He has been flawless in the field.

What do you people want from Joe? I think many of you have preconceived notions that Crede is done. You all are looking for reasons to point the finger at him.

Actually, I guess I'm not surprised that Crede is taking crap on this board.

infohawk
04-02-2008, 11:16 PM
those were our two "good" starting pitchers, wait til we trot out the crappy ones
Those were the Indians two good starting pitchers, too. Sabathia didn't exactly pitch his behind off...although, come to think about it, that might be exceedingly difficult for him. I mean, that's a lot of pitching, and with the off-season and all....

Tragg
04-02-2008, 11:16 PM
And Ozzie needs to put the best players out there to do it (IMO).
He has refused to do that the last 2 years. And he certainly won't let high potential play in the stead of a guaranteed mediocrity.; the only youth that interests him is aggressive slap hitting.
And Williams is letting him do that.

oeo
04-02-2008, 11:16 PM
2008 White Sox: New season, same old crap.

gogosox16
04-02-2008, 11:16 PM
The Sox need to make a change and I think it should be either Quentin or Anderson in for Alexei in the outfield and give Pablo a shot at 2nd.....it can't get any worse

voodoochile
04-02-2008, 11:17 PM
The underline is blocked by the box. (If that makes sense) The link is there.

:happybday

Pssst...

I think he is suggesting you reply to the PTC Winner thread and put a link to the recap in it.

angiew
04-02-2008, 11:17 PM
You won't hear me dogging Crede....he drove in a run tonight and I'm not ABOUT to talk **** about anyone who can do that at this stage. lol I really do think his bat will come around. I'm a Fields fan too, but right now I think Joe's the only option on 3B

Jaysox
04-02-2008, 11:18 PM
The Sox need to make a change and I think it should be either Quentin or Anderson in for Alexei in the outfield and give Pablo a shot at 2nd.....it can't get any worse

agreed.

Optipessimism
04-02-2008, 11:18 PM
Grady is a freakin' stud....no doubt. Maybe when our lead off guy comes off the damn DL we'll get the lineup straightened out.
Our lead-off guy is fine leading off as it is. Adding another OBP disaster to the lineup isn't going to help us at all, even if he is fast.

God, imagine a 7-8-9-1-2 of AJ, Crede, Uribe, Owens, Cabrera. The combined OBP there is probably about .315, and that is the same reason our offense was horrible last year. At least with Ramirez in CF Swisher leads off and breaks up all that suck.

I thought the Sox wanted to do something different this year? I guess not.

oeo
04-02-2008, 11:18 PM
That works too. :bandance::bandance:

I like that idea, too. Hopefully Richar gets healthy, and we can have some plate discipline in Quentin/Richar at the bottom of the order.

chisoxmike
04-02-2008, 11:18 PM
Pssst...

I think he is suggesting you reply to the PTC Winner thread and put a link to the recap in it.
:tiphat:

chisoxmike
04-02-2008, 11:19 PM
I like that idea, too. Hopefully Richar gets healthy, and we can have some plate discipline at the bottom of the order.

I miss Richar and he hasn't even played his year.

WhiteSox5187
04-02-2008, 11:19 PM
The Sox need to make a change and I think it should be either Quentin or Anderson in for Alexei in the outfield and give Pablo a shot at 2nd.....it can't get any worse
I agree.

gogosox16
04-02-2008, 11:20 PM
I like that idea, too. Hopefully Richar gets healthy, and we can have some plate discipline in Quentin/Richar at the bottom of the order.
Yea, If Quentin isn't starting here, he's better off in AAA for consistent playing time

manders_01
04-02-2008, 11:20 PM
did they sound flat?

Yeah - sound is what you hear when you listen to the radio.

infohawk
04-02-2008, 11:20 PM
If we lose 90 games again Kenny SHOULD be fired...but Jerry doesn't fire GMs. And I don't think Kenny will quit.
Waaay too early to evaluate this team. C'mon guys. Folks are going to be burned out after the first month.:o:

I will say that I think the line-up will be better with Owens leading off and Swisher moving down in the order. I also believe that Field's bat is better than Crede's. Joe's great on anything middle-in, but he absolutely cannot seem to do anything with pitches on the outer half of the zone, other than weakly pop-up. Replace MacDougal with Wasserman and we'll be ready to roll!

gogosox16
04-02-2008, 11:21 PM
I miss Richar and he hasn't even played his year.
You know things aren't going well when were 2 games in and the guy we want has only play a month or 2 in the majors.:whiner:

oeo
04-02-2008, 11:22 PM
Yea, If Quentin isn't starting here, he's better off in AAA for consistent playing time

Quentin should be starting...like by tomorrow. For all you BA lovers out there, he's not going to help our plate disclipline problems...he will bring much of the same.

gogosox16
04-02-2008, 11:23 PM
Waaay too early to evaluate this team. C'mon guys. Folks are going to be burned out after the first month.:o:

I will say that I think the line-up will be better with Owens leading off and Swisher moving down in the order. I also believe that Field's bat is better than Crede's. Joe's great on anything middle-in, but he absolutely cannot seem to do anything with pitches on the outer half of the zone, other than weak pop-ups. Replace MacDougal with Wasserman and we'll be ready to roll!
Yep, I believe that once Jerry gets back that will give us another dynamic punch to this lineup....Guys with speed and the capability to steal bases get to pitchers and cause mistakes......Once Jerry gets back, I expect this line-up to produce in a big way

angiew
04-02-2008, 11:23 PM
I'm definately not packin' it in after only 2 games.....I'm just bitchin':redneck

Tragg
04-02-2008, 11:23 PM
I Hopefully Richar gets healthy, and we can have some plate discipline in Quentin/Richar at the bottom of the order.
I love the idea, but I see nothing to believe that will ever happen. Williams uses signficant resources to acquire talent that Ozzie refuses to play.

And one thing that worries me is that is the plate discipline retained once they are exposed to guillen and walker on a daily basis? it's not like ozzie rewards walking and taking pitches....in fact, he does the opposite.

Optipessimism
04-02-2008, 11:24 PM
Y isn't Swisher in cf and Fields in left field. I know I'm gonna hear every1 say no no but Rameriez doesn't look like he's ever seen a breaking ball before. Atleast put Anderson out there.
I'm just wondering, but how much time did that really save you?

gogosox16
04-02-2008, 11:24 PM
Quentin should be starting...like by tomorrow. For all you BA lovers out there, he's not going to help our plate disclipline problems...he will bring much of the same.
The problem is I don't think Quentin can play CF, do we move Swish to a position in which he has played but not as much as he has in the corner outfield.....I would in a heart beat

Pear-Zin-Ski
04-02-2008, 11:24 PM
Anyone else here that ass (or asses...I couldn't tell) in the stands whenever the Sox would come up to bat?

Is Alexei ever going to hit the ball?

JB98
04-02-2008, 11:25 PM
those were our two "good" starting pitchers, wait til we trot out the crappy ones

We lost Buehrle's game. We lost Vazquez's game. Now what? We find out whether the back end of the rotation can step it up, pick us up and prevent a long losing streak. This is where it gets interesting.

A lot of gnashing of teeth about the offense tonight. Unjustified, IMO. We were facing a 19-game winner, and he was on top of his game! What did you all expect? You get a well-pitched game against you, and chances are you're not going to do much. I'm not worried about the offense.

The real concern is this pitching staff. Our top two starters gave us a mighty total of 6 2/3 innings these first two games. The bullpen looks shaky as ever. Not acceptable.

gogosox16
04-02-2008, 11:26 PM
We lost Buehrle's game. We lost Vazquez's game. Now what? We find out whether the back end of the rotation can step it up, pick us up and prevent a long losing streak. This is where it gets interesting.

A lot of gnashing of teeth about the offense tonight. Unjustified, IMO. We were facing a 19-game winner, and he was on top of his game! What did you all expect? You get a well-pitched game against you, and chances are you're not going to do much. I'm not worried about the offense.

The real concern is this pitching staff. Our top two starters gave us a mighty total of 6 2/3 innings these first two games. The bullpen looks shaky as ever. Not acceptable.
I expect for Danks to have a big year this year....he understands what it takes to get major leaugers out now and he should be a whole lot better

infohawk
04-02-2008, 11:26 PM
Yep, I believe that once Jerry gets back that will give us another dynamic punch to this lineup....Guys with speed and the capability to steal bases get to pitchers and cause mistakes......Once Jerry gets back, I expect this line-up to produce in a big way
You hit it on the head. I'm not suggesting that Jerry's going to put up a world-beating .OBP, but his speed may very well distract pitchers in key situations. That said, he can't hit .220 or something like that either, or the speed doesn't really matter!

gogosox16
04-02-2008, 11:27 PM
:tomatoaward

Tragg
04-02-2008, 11:28 PM
Right now, I'm watching a team that's as bad as we are: the Astros.
Carlos Lee - he can hit, but I'm glad he's not patrolling LF for us anymore. He's gotten worse - he can't move 10 feet for a fly ball.

DickAllen72
04-02-2008, 11:29 PM
Juan Uribe is bad, very bad.

Maybe so, but he still looks like the best shortstop on the team so far.

Two observations that kind of bothered me early in the game, neither one having anything to do with the outcome of the game but hopefully not an indicator of things to come:

1. Cabrera choosing to take the out at first when he had an easy play on the runner, who made a bad baserunning decision, at 3B. I hope Cabrera gets his head out of his ass soon. I was a big fan of his acquisition, and maybe my expectations were too high but so far from ST and the first couple of games I'm really disappointed in him. He just doesn't seem like the player I thought he was. Someone please tell me that he's a warm weather player....

2. Jermaine Dye slid into 2B like a ***** on that ball that AJ beat out at 1B to avoid the DP. As Ozzie once said of Carlos Lee, "He went into second like his mother was playing there." After the way they lost yesterday and the way Blake took out Cabrera early in that game, I thought the Sox would go in hard and clean the next time they had the occasion to break up a DP.

Again, two relatively minor points relative to the game today which had no effect on the outcome, but not a good sign relative to their mindset for the rest of the season. Hopefully Ozzie and the staff talk to the team about stuff like this.

oeo
04-02-2008, 11:29 PM
The problem is I don't think Quentin can play CF, do we move Swish to a position in which he has played but not as much as he has in the corner outfield.....I would in a heart beat

Yes. Swisher in center, Quentin in left.

If Swisher really hurts us that bad in center, then make the change later. Right now, this team needs something (anything) at the bottom of the lineup. Having Ramirez, Crede, and Uribe just going up there hacking at everything has already killed us, and will continue to do so.

Hopefully Crede and Uribe turn it up, and we can get rid of two of those guys.

How nice would this look?
Swisher, CF
Cabrera, SS
Thome, DH
Konerko, 1B
Dye, RF
Pierzynski, C
Quentin, LF
Fields, 3B
Richar, 2B

palehozenychicty
04-02-2008, 11:31 PM
You know things aren't going well when were 2 games in and the guy we want has only play a month or 2 in the majors.:whiner:

I don't mind that so much as long as he has an opportunity to improve. Baseball is becoming a young man's game again and contributions from them are necessary for any quality team.

Optipessimism
04-02-2008, 11:31 PM
Quentin should be starting...like by tomorrow. For all you BA lovers out there, he's not going to help our plate disclipline problems...he will bring much of the same.
BA has shown more discipline recently than Owens, so it's at least something. Plus he brings defense. Quentin as a 4th OF should be able to get 500 AB's.

If the Sox did go with Swisher in CF and Quentin in LF it would still make a lot more sense because Quentin, either way, needs to get in some games. He has too much talent to sit on the bench.

I don't think either is likely however. Even if one of Anderson/Swisher start in center for a game or two, it won't matter what happens because as soon as Jerry Owens gets back Ozzie will have him hurting the team at the top of the lineup.

Parrothead
04-02-2008, 11:32 PM
160 - 2. The pitching, hitting and fielding is fine. Just going thru a rough patch. It was cold. The Sox will turn it around. Come on Danks & Floyd ! They are the next coming ! Come on everyone be positive ! If the pitchers could allow 3 less runs the next game and 3 after that and then keep it there everything will be puppies and rainbows ! Everything is fine ! I am excited for this season. This is the Sox year.

Pear-Zin-Ski
04-02-2008, 11:32 PM
Just an observation...but have the Sox turned a double play yet?

gogosox16
04-02-2008, 11:32 PM
I'm definately not packin' it in after only 2 games.....I'm just bitchin':redneck
everyone is, at least I hope that no ones packin' it in

DickAllen72
04-02-2008, 11:34 PM
I'm very surprised that Crede is taking crap on this board tonight. He did knock in one of our runs with a nice piece of hitting. He hustled and beat out an infield hit, only to be screwed by the umpire. He has been flawless in the field.

Agreed. I'm pleased with Crede so far.

Tragg
04-02-2008, 11:34 PM
BA has shown more discipline recently than Owens, so it's at least something. Plus he brings defense. Quentin as a 4th OF should be able to get 500 AB's.


The problem is that the Sox have a manager that doesn't see plate discipline as a signficant positive trait.

It's Dankerific
04-02-2008, 11:34 PM
Quentin should be starting...like by tomorrow. For all you BA lovers out there, he's not going to help our plate disclipline problems...he will bring much of the same.

he took some walks in ST. At this point, I'm anyone but Lexi. BUT, I think BA isn't the black hole he is portrayed to be.

RockJock07
04-02-2008, 11:35 PM
Fields in left would be a disaster. Put Swisher in LF and Anderson in CF. :bandance:
IDK if fields would be diaster in lf, but he needs to be playing 3rd base at this point, I just think we need to put the best talent we have on the field right now, if that means playing guys out of position, so be it

drewcifer
04-02-2008, 11:35 PM
We lost Buehrle's game. We lost Vazquez's game. Now what? We find out whether the back end of the rotation can step it up, pick us up and prevent a long losing streak. This is where it gets interesting.

A lot of gnashing of teeth about the offense tonight. Unjustified, IMO. We were facing a 19-game winner, and he was on top of his game! What did you all expect? You get a well-pitched game against you, and chances are you're not going to do much. I'm not worried about the offense.

The real concern is this pitching staff. Our top two starters gave us a mighty total of 6 2/3 innings these first two games. The bullpen looks shaky as ever. Not acceptable.

My concern is getting men on base. We were doing that. Last year we didn't. Cleveland's top 2 and we have ample runners to win.

But we don't win.

Pitching is a concern, I don't disagree - But we should be apples to apples on offense. We should be better than them, actually.

We were outhitting them and getting on base at a higher clip.

It's Time
04-02-2008, 11:37 PM
160 - 2. everything will be puppies and rainbows ! Everything is fine ! I am excited for this season. This is the Sox year.

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/uncle-sam/images/no-drinking-sign.jpg

oeo
04-02-2008, 11:37 PM
BA has shown more discipline recently than Owens, so it's at least something. Plus he brings defense. Quentin as a 4th OF should be able to get 500 AB's.

What does Owens have to do with anything? Anderson Ks...how does that help our problems? If we could realistically move Dye, then we could insert Anderson, but right now, he's just not a good fit in the everyday lineup.

It's Dankerific
04-02-2008, 11:38 PM
Agreed. I'm pleased with Crede so far.

x3. He's getting his sea legs. As he said himself, defense comes first, then offense. He got a great hit on monday, shoulda had 2 tonight.

I like how he's MOVING. All this BS about being too slow, he beat out that grounder. That's pretty damn good for a 3b.

JB98
04-02-2008, 11:39 PM
My concern is getting men on base. We were doing that. Last year we didn't. Cleveland's top 2 and we have ample runners to win.

But we don't win.

Pitching is a concern, I don't disagree - But we should be apples to apples on offense. We should be better than them, actually.

We were outhitting them and getting on base at a higher clip.

But Carmona's stuff was far better than Vazquez's tonight. That's the point I'm making. Carmona's sinker was filthy. Vazquez struggled with all of his offspeed pitches in this game.

We got shut down by a very good pitcher tonight. If some mediocre idiot like Nate Robertson blanks us, then I'll be concerned.

sox1970
04-02-2008, 11:40 PM
0-2 isn't the problem. The problem is this team has no chance of winning in a division with the Indians and Tigers with their pitching staff, so what's the point of watching old veteran players, and a rookie that has no business being in the lineup?

Kenny messed up. Hopefully he'll realize it soon and actually get a plan on how to build a championship team the right way, rather than relying on hope for career years, other team's injuries, and "grinding it out", whatever the hell that is.

oeo
04-02-2008, 11:41 PM
But Carmona's stuff was far better than Vazquez's tonight. That's the point I'm making. Carmona's sinker was filthy. Vazquez struggled with all of his offspeed pitches in this game.

We got shut down by a very good pitcher tonight. If some mediocre idiot like Nate Robertson blanks us, then I'll be concerned.

Carmona was all over the place tonight. No excuses, because he was not at his best.

palehozenychicty
04-02-2008, 11:44 PM
0-2 isn't the problem. The problem is this team has no chance of winning in a division with the Indians and Tigers with their pitching staff, so what's the point of watching old veteran players, and a rookie that has no business being in the lineup?

Kenny messed up. Hopefully he'll realize it soon and actually get a plan on how to build a championship team the right way, rather than relying on hope for career years, other team's injuries, and "grinding it out", whatever the hell that is.


For real. We need some youthful energy out of this team.

voodoochile
04-02-2008, 11:45 PM
0-2 isn't the problem. The problem is this team has no chance of winning in a division with the Indians and Tigers with their pitching staff, so what's the point of watching old veteran players, and a rookie that has no business being in the lineup?

Kenny messed up. Hopefully he'll realize it soon and actually get a plan on how to build a championship team the right way, rather than relying on hope for career years, other team's injuries, and "grinding it out", whatever the hell that is.

I assume you mean Crede and Uribe, but why does it matter if they won't compete anyway? Shouldn't they play these guys for at least a while and see if they can get something for them? Crede has value if he is healthy. Ditto Uribe at least on some level.

Eventually they'll be traded, you can count on it, the question is, do the Sox sell low now or wait and hope the value goes up? I say the latter especially if they are doomed for 3rd place anyway...

drewcifer
04-02-2008, 11:46 PM
Carmona was all over the place tonight. No excuses, because he was not at his best.

I agree. He was BBing top of order guys like crazy. I think Paulie and O-Cab had 4 alone by the 4th inning.

peeonwrigley
04-02-2008, 11:46 PM
suckfest

Elephant
04-02-2008, 11:48 PM
Kenny messed up. Hopefully he'll realize it soon and actually get a plan on how to build a championship team the right way, rather than relying on hope for career years, other team's injuries, and "grinding it out", whatever the hell that is.

He will. And just after we traded our two best pitching prospects for a sort of good corner OF/IF. Aw shucks.

oeo
04-02-2008, 11:49 PM
I agree. He was BBing top of order guys like crazy. I think Paulie and O-Cab had 4 alone by the 4th inning.

How about when Konerko had a good AB, earned a walk, then JD comes up and singles? Looks like a rally, right? Wrong. AJ comes up, swings at the first pitch, which forces Dye out at second. Then Ramirez comes up, swings at the first pitch and grounds into a double play. TWO pitches, and Carmona is out of the jam.

The bottom of the order is just terrible.

Optipessimism
04-02-2008, 11:49 PM
What does Owens have to do with anything? Anderson Ks...how does that help our problems? If we could realistically move Dye, then we could insert Anderson, but right now, he's just not a good fit in the everyday lineup.
Owens matters because it has pretty much already been established that when he comes back in a few days he'll be the starting CF until Ozzie says otherwise. Making a change for a game or two doesn't mean a whole lot in the scheme of things.

And yes Anderson will K, but at least he plays premium defense at a premium defensive position. His discipline has improved, his swing has improved, he's healthy, he has some power, and he still has a high ceiling. This is his make-or-break year most likely, so it makes sense to play him. Ramirez, not so much since he clearly has things to work on, and Owens, hell no for reasons already mentioned a million times over.

Anderson vs. Quentin should be the discussion - not between us but between Ozzie and KW. I think you could make the case for either and I'd be happy with either of them. They are both better options than Ramirez or Owens IMO.

drewcifer
04-02-2008, 11:50 PM
I assume you mean Crede and Uribe, but why does it matter if they won't compete anyway? Shouldn't they play these guys for at least a while and see if they can get something for them? Crede has value if he is healthy. Ditto Uribe at least on some level.

Eventually they'll be traded, you can count on it, the question is, do the Sox sell low now or wait and hope the value goes up? I say the latter especially if they are doomed for 3rd place anyway...

I predict neither of those guys are traded. They both suck and will not be a help to anyone because of the offensive detriment they are. They are not what a team that thinks it can contend at the July deadline wants.

A 2b is rarely an offensive contributor and anyone who is contending come August without a real 3B would be a miracle. Look at the good teams across MLB... the best are set there.

RockJock07
04-02-2008, 11:52 PM
I think my dogging of crede stems from the fact that if you bat him in the middle of Rameriz and Uribe he's not gonna look good. The problem with this line-up is 2 fold, no ideal lead-off hitter and a very weak bottom third of the line-up which, like it or not, crede's a part of.

I do like the fact that crede's showing some fire this year. but hit's win games, i love his defense, but he's got to step up in the bottom of the line-up, tonight was a start, but we need more.

sox1970
04-02-2008, 11:53 PM
I assume you mean Crede and Uribe, but why does it matter if they won't compete anyway? Shouldn't they play these guys for at least a while and see if they can get something for them? Crede has value if he is healthy. Ditto Uribe at least on some level.

Eventually they'll be traded, you can count on it, the question is, do the Sox sell low now or wait and hope the value goes up? I say the latter especially if they are doomed for 3rd place anyway...

Who knows now. If they get buried early, they should move Uribe, Crede, and Dye for starters. Possibly Konerko, Cabrera, and Contreras as well.

A. Cavatica
04-02-2008, 11:54 PM
Could be worse...wait until you see Ozzie's Sunday lineup:

Owens cf
Uribe ss
Konerko 1b
Crede 3b
Dye rf
Ramirez 2b
Anderson dh
Hall c
Ozuna lf

Floyd p

oeo
04-02-2008, 11:54 PM
A 2b is rarely an offensive contributor and anyone who is contending come August without a real 3B would be a miracle. Look at the good teams across MLB... the best are set there.

Injuries happen...

The Sox will get something for Crede, it's just a matter of when and what.

Elephant
04-02-2008, 11:55 PM
What value are Crede and Uribe gonna have in three months? They're very poor baseball batsmen. You're not gonna get more than a mediocre reliever for either of them.

TheOldRoman
04-02-2008, 11:58 PM
everyone is, at least I hope that no ones packin' it inWhat?! Incase you haven't noticed, we are on pace to go 0-162! It is all Crede's fault, by the way. He came up with one lousy hit and one lousy RBI.

Optipessimism
04-02-2008, 11:58 PM
I assume you mean Crede and Uribe, but why does it matter if they won't compete anyway? Shouldn't they play these guys for at least a while and see if they can get something for them? Crede has value if he is healthy. Ditto Uribe at least on some level.

Eventually they'll be traded, you can count on it, the question is, do the Sox sell low now or wait and hope the value goes up? I say the latter especially if they are doomed for 3rd place anyway...

But even if their values do rise it will take at least a couple of months if not more for that to happen. If that's the case, is the difference between the long-shot A-ball prospect the Sox can get each of them now and the somewhat decent AA prospect the Sox could get in a few months worth the loss of experience for a better player? I'd disagree. I don't think it's smart for teams trying to contend to absorb damages in multiple areas in order to extract a minuscule amount of value out of unwanted players.

Parrothead
04-02-2008, 11:58 PM
http://www.sonofthesouth.net/uncle-sam/images/no-drinking-sign.jpg

Forgot to say.....

I feel the Swager ! :gulp:

oeo
04-02-2008, 11:58 PM
What value are Crede and Uribe gonna have in three months? They're very poor baseball batsmen. You're not gonna get more than a mediocre reliever for either of them.

It's all about what kind of situation were in. If we're terrible in June, you take that mediocre reliever and bring Fields up. We're not going to get anything for Crede when he walks, so there's no point in having Fields in Charlotte.

Or if Crede is just awful, you take what you can get for him. At some point, it has to be Fields' future over Crede's return. I wouldn't say we've hit that point yet.

JB98
04-02-2008, 11:58 PM
Carmona was all over the place tonight. No excuses, because he was not at his best.

We only had one fly ball out against Carmona all game. His sinker was really nasty. Apparently, you did not watch the game. He was very, very good.

And I'm not making excuses. I'm saying we got beat.

If I were babbling about cold weather, that would be an excuse.

Optipessimism
04-02-2008, 11:59 PM
I predict neither of those guys are traded. They both suck and will not be a help to anyone because of the offensive detriment they are. They are not what a team that thinks it can contend at the July deadline wants.

A 2b is rarely an offensive contributor and anyone who is contending come August without a real 3B would be a miracle. Look at the good teams across MLB... the best are set there.
:gulp:

Jerko
04-02-2008, 11:59 PM
Was at the Hawks game so I missed this masterpiece, but *** the ****in 6-9 hitters scored 4 runs on ONE hit????? Can't be walking crap like Delucci and Shoppach.

oeo
04-03-2008, 12:00 AM
What?! Incase you haven't noticed, we are on pace to go 0-162! It is all Crede's fault, by the way. He came up with one lousy hit and one lousy RBI.

Who blamed anything on Crede? :?:

oeo
04-03-2008, 12:01 AM
We only had one fly ball out against Carmona all game. His sinker was really nasty. Apparently, you did not watch the game. He was very, very good.

I didn't (WCIU :angry:).

But when a pitcher is struggling to throw strikes, and you're swinging at everything, then you're not taking a very good approach.

Jjav829
04-03-2008, 12:01 AM
We only had one fly ball out against Carmona all game. His sinker was really nasty. Apparently, you did not watch the game. He was very, very good.

And I'm not making excuses. I'm saying we got beat.

If I were babbling about cold weather, that would be an excuse.


That actually wasn't Carmona at his best. Still, he's good enough that he doesn't have to be at his best and can still be successful. His control was off, so he was giving up more walks, but he was still keeping the ball down in the zone and getting ground balls.

Did KW really specifically target Carlos Quentin so that he can sit on the bench?

RockJock07
04-03-2008, 12:01 AM
The Sox are not re-signing Crede, not at the price him and his agent want and not to mention Fields waiting, and IMO should have been the starter opening day.

As many have said, the sox are in a no win position with Crede, the sox aren't gonna get ML talent for him, so scout the dodgers system and find a pitcher that's sitting in A ball, then that bottom of the line-up isn't so bad.

Noneck
04-03-2008, 12:02 AM
Who knows now. If they get buried early, they should move Uribe, Crede, and Dye for starters.

Starters? I assume you mean class A or AA starters.

TheOldRoman
04-03-2008, 12:02 AM
What value are Crede and Uribe gonna have in three months? They're very poor baseball batsmen. You're not gonna get more than a mediocre reliever for either of them.Ridiculous. It is asinine to claim Crede is a poor batsman. He is not an elite offensive force, but look at hi numbers in Sept-October of 05 and 06. He finally got it, and took off. Last year his back was really bad, and his game suffered. If he is healthy, his numbers will a lot closer to .283, 30, 94 than what he did last year. Those numbers are not poor by any means.

kittle42
04-03-2008, 12:03 AM
0-2 isn't the problem. The problem is this team has no chance of winning in a division with the Indians and Tigers with their pitching staff, so what's the point of watching old veteran players, and a rookie that has no business being in the lineup?

Kenny messed up. Hopefully he'll realize it soon and actually get a plan on how to build a championship team the right way, rather than relying on hope for career years, other team's injuries, and "grinding it out", whatever the hell that is.

Amen. This team has three major problems outside of their lack of talent - JR, KW, and OG.

They stink. I knew they'd stink, because they stunk on paper. The only positive? Unlike the last 2 years, I don't expect them to win, so the losses hurt less.

cheezheadsoxfan
04-03-2008, 12:03 AM
I'm very surprised that Crede is taking crap on this board tonight. He did knock in one of our runs with a nice piece of hitting. He hustled and beat out an infield hit, only to be screwed by the umpire. He has been flawless in the field.

What do you people want from Joe? I think many of you have preconceived notions that Crede is done. You all are looking for reasons to point the finger at him.

Actually, I guess I'm not surprised that Crede is taking crap on this board.
Amen. Crede isn't the reason we've lost two in a row.

oeo
04-03-2008, 12:04 AM
Ridiculous. It is asinine to claim Crede is a poor batsman. He is not an elite offensive force, but look at hi numbers in Sept-October of 05 and 06. He finally got it, and took off. Last year his back was really bad, and his game suffered. If he is healthy, his numbers will a lot closer to .283, 30, 94 than what he did last year. Those numbers are not poor by any means.

There's nothing that supports he will ever match those numbers again. You can blame the back surgery, but maybe it was just a career year? There were quite a few guys that had very good offensive years in 2006.

TheOldRoman
04-03-2008, 12:04 AM
Who blamed anything on Crede? :?:People in this thread are already waxing about his and Uribe's horrible performances and why it makes us a terrible team.

oeo
04-03-2008, 12:05 AM
Amen. Crede isn't the reason we've lost two in a row.

No one has blamed Crede for jack ****.

sox1970
04-03-2008, 12:06 AM
Starters? I assume you mean class A or AA starters.

No, I meant "for starters" as in "to begin with". I really don't care what they get for them. Just clean house and start over.

Optipessimism
04-03-2008, 12:06 AM
Amen. This team has three major problems outside of their lack of talent - JR, KW, and OG.

They stink. I knew they'd stink, because they stunk on paper. The only positive? Unlike the last 2 years, I don't expect them to win, so the losses hurt less.
Baseball games aren't played on paper!!!

^I just threw that out there to be the first one to say it.

oeo
04-03-2008, 12:07 AM
People in this thread are already waxing about his and Uribe's horrible performances and why it makes us a terrible team.

If you're referring to me, I don't like the bottom of the lineup because Ramirez, Crede, and Uribe are down there. I want Quentin and Richar to be inserted, and in June or July to deal Crede. It has nothing to do with performance...we have a 3B ready in Charlotte, keeping him there isn't doing anything to help his career.

Elephant
04-03-2008, 12:07 AM
It's all about what kind of situation were in. If we're terrible in June, you take that mediocre reliever and bring Fields up. We're not going to get anything for Crede when he walks, so there's no point in having Fields in Charlotte.

Or if Crede is just awful, you take what you can get for him. At some point, it has to be Fields' future over Crede's return. I wouldn't say we've hit that point yet.

Why exactly haven't we hit that point yet? Fields is already a better hitter than Crede. All he has to do is cut down on his swing and get on base at a respectable clip.

If we let Crede walk, we get nothing; if we trade him we get the human equivalent of nothing and we impede Fields' path to being a good major league hitter while maintaining a quixotic quest for..whatever the **** KW feels this team can do.

Who blamed anything on Crede? :?:

Roman's just offering stock pg responses here that you always see around here when the Sox suck. Doesn't really add anything, should be ignored.

kittle42
04-03-2008, 12:08 AM
Did KW really specifically target Carlos Quentin so that he can sit on the bench?

That quote was always bull****.

TheOldRoman
04-03-2008, 12:09 AM
There's nothing that supports he will ever match those numbers again. You can blame the back surgery, but maybe it was just a career year? There were quite a few guys that had very good offensive years in 2006.And there is nothing that supports that he won't. He always had lots of potential, but he really put it together after coming off the DL in 05. He put up really good numbers in 06, and tailed off at the end. He matured as a player. He still had the pop-ups, but he was a different hitter in 06 than 04. Maybe his numbers were only as good because the other guys around him were hitting, but it isn't like any playoff contending team trading for him would be throwing him in the 3 spot.

sox1970
04-03-2008, 12:09 AM
Amen. This team has three major problems outside of their lack of talent - JR, KW, and OG.

They stink. I knew they'd stink, because they stunk on paper. The only positive? Unlike the last 2 years, I don't expect them to win, so the losses hurt less.

To me they hurt because these old fart players are blocking young guys that should be playing and getting an extra year of experience. I can't watch a Konerko/Thome/AJ/Crede/Uribe team lose 90 games again.

JB98
04-03-2008, 12:11 AM
That quote was always bull****.

My favorite quote is still the one about 29 other teams wanting Gavin Floyd. If that's really true, I recommend we trade the highly-coveted Floyd to one of those teams immediately.

kittle42
04-03-2008, 12:11 AM
I'm not even reacting negatively to the performance. This is what I expected. When you half-assedly put your team between "playing for now" and for down the road, you get mediocre crap. When you "only have 50 cents," you get mediocre crap.

Elephant
04-03-2008, 12:12 AM
Ridiculous. It is asinine to claim Crede is a poor batsman. He is not an elite offensive force, but look at hi numbers in Sept-October of 05 and 06. He finally got it, and took off. Last year his back was really bad, and his game suffered. If he is healthy, his numbers will a lot closer to .283, 30, 94 than what he did last year. Those numbers are not poor by any means.

He had one decent year and it certainly was nothing special for a third baseman. In fact it was below average (.323 on-base), and he's not even a gold glover to offset it. Sure, he's a fine fielder but he's not exactly Pie Traynor over here. He's a career .304 guy. That's terrible.

TheOldRoman
04-03-2008, 12:12 AM
If you're referring to me, I don't like the bottom of the lineup because Ramirez, Crede, and Uribe are down there. I want Quentin and Richar to be inserted, and in June or July to deal Crede. It has nothing to do with performance...we have a 3B ready in Charlotte, keeping him there isn't doing anything to help his career.
I wasn't referring to you. I want Uribe nowhere near this team, and I also want Quentin and Richar starting. However, I don't think the month or three in AAA will destroy Josh' career. He could still work on things.

oeo
04-03-2008, 12:13 AM
Why exactly haven't we hit that point yet? Fields is already a better hitter than Crede. All he has to do is cut down on his swing and get on base at a respectable clip.

Because we're not going to get anything worthwhile for Crede yet. Let him build up his value some, and then deal him.

I wasn't referring to you. I want Uribe nowhere near this team, and I also want Quentin and Richar starting. However, I don't think the month or three in AAA will destroy Josh' career. He could still work on things.

I never said it would 'destroy' it, I said it wouldn't help it. Fields has already proven he can hit AAA. Hell, he hit 23 dingers last year, so he's well on his way to being a very good power hitter in the big leagues. He's ready to go right now.

kittle42
04-03-2008, 12:13 AM
My favorite quote is still the one about 29 other teams wanting Gavin Floyd. If that's really true, I recommend we trade the highly-coveted Floyd to one of those teams immediately.

How dumb do they think we are? Oh, wait, I renewed my season tickets...

steely712
04-03-2008, 12:13 AM
:gulp:Horrible game, but how good has A.J. looked. I was listening to the radio cast and Farmer said that A.J. told him that he was going to try to win the batting title this year. I thought this was kind of funny, but if he keeps hitting like this, he might have a chance.

RockJock07
04-03-2008, 12:14 AM
If you're referring to me, I don't like the bottom of the lineup because Ramirez, Crede, and Uribe are down there. I want Quentin and Richar to be inserted, and in June or July to deal Crede. We have a 3B ready in Charlotte, keeping him there isn't doing anything to help his career.

I'm also the one that want's fields in the line-up, i would prefer to do it today, but June would work too. Youre right on about Fields too, there is no point for him to be at AAA. He can hit, we know that, his defense is a work in progress, but groundballs are groundballs, no matter what level.

I'm not blaming these two games on crede or even uribe but we need the best players on the field to have a shot at this division so let's get rid of guys that are career underachevers, that's what uribe and Crede are. At this point Richar and Fields wouldn't be that much of a drop off compared to Crede and Uribe.

JB98
04-03-2008, 12:16 AM
I wasn't referring to you. I want Uribe nowhere near this team, and I also want Quentin and Richar starting. However, I don't think the month or three in AAA will destroy Josh' career. He could still work on things.

Especially his defense. He can improve his defense just as well in Charlotte as he can in Chicago. Most of my concerns about Fields have to do with his glove. He's going to be a good major-league hitter, IMO. He already isn't too shabby.

Elephant
04-03-2008, 12:16 AM
Because we're not going to get anything worthwhile for Crede yet. Let him build up his value some, and then deal him.

I've already said twice that at no point are we gonna get anything worthwhile for him. So with that established, what's the benefit of having him around? If you're arguing that he won't be benched, that's one thing.

He's not the player he was, and what he was wasn't that good.

It's Dankerific
04-03-2008, 12:16 AM
To me they hurt because these old fart players are blocking young guys that should be playing and getting an extra year of experience. I can't watch a Konerko/Thome/AJ/Crede/Uribe team lose 90 games again.

people. Another year of experience for fields???? You mean one year closer to Free Agency, you know, like Crede. Save fields for future seasons when there is a ****ing chance in hell!!

oeo
04-03-2008, 12:16 AM
And there is nothing that supports that he won't. He always had lots of potential, but he really put it together after coming off the DL in 05. He put up really good numbers in 06, and tailed off at the end. He matured as a player. He still had the pop-ups, but he was a different hitter in 06 than 04. Maybe his numbers were only as good because the other guys around him were hitting, but it isn't like any playoff contending team trading for him would be throwing him in the 3 spot.

There are 3+ years that say he won't.

Not saying he can't do it, but I wouldn't be holding my breath that the 2006 version is Joe Crede.

I've already said twice that at no point are we gonna get anything worthwhile for him. So with that established, what's the benefit of having him around? If you're arguing that he won't be benched, that's one thing.

And I've already said multiple times that I think we can end up getting something. SF offered us a since-released pitcher, and then some crap AAA pitcher. I think we can get more than that; Kenny obviously does too.

Optipessimism
04-03-2008, 12:20 AM
My favorite quote is still the one about 29 other teams wanting Gavin Floyd. If that's really true, I recommend we trade the highly-coveted Floyd to one of those teams immediately.
Ozzie had a good one too about how he doesn't develop players because Jeff Torborg did it in Florida and it didn't work. Then he praises Jack McKeown for winning a WS with those players Torborg developed.

Frontman
04-03-2008, 12:21 AM
You know, can we possibly get it through the moronic Indian fans to get over Thome leaving already?

It's one thing to boo, but to chant "Traitor?" Please, like he was the very first player to move on from a team for more money.

Well, law of averages says the Sox will win at least one game before the Home Opener. That means we're set for a run!!!!

sox1970
04-03-2008, 12:21 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2008-04/37446578.jpg

Says it all.

Optipessimism
04-03-2008, 12:22 AM
And I've already said multiple times that I think we can end up getting something. SF offered us a since-released pitcher, and then some crap AAA pitcher. I think we can get more than that; Kenny obviously does too.
Kenny also was asking for Jonathan Sanchez. He's not going to get **** for either one of these guys until he gets realistic. And until that happens, they're both in our lineup.

oeo
04-03-2008, 12:26 AM
Kenny also was asking for Jonathan Sanchez. He's not going to get **** for either one of these guys until he gets realistic. And until that happens, they're both in our lineup.

Mmm...what do you want KW to ask for? The ****ty AAA pitcher?

This is usually where negotiations start. Kenny wants a stud, they offer ****...you negotiate and come to a deal.

Elephant
04-03-2008, 12:27 AM
And I've already said multiple times that I think we can end up getting something. SF offered us a since-released pitcher, and then some crap AAA pitcher. I think we can get more than that; Kenny obviously does too.

You both clearly value Crede a lot more than other teams do.

What did we get for Durham? Iguchi? Nothing and nothing respectively, and those were better players at the time.

He had a good World Series. Guess what, so did Mark Lemke. I never understood the pass Crede's gotten in Soxville for a career of incredibly streaky play and absymal OBP's. He's the most overrated (by fans) player we've ever had--and that says a lot considering Bonerko. Or rather over-appreciated is a better word.

TheOldRoman
04-03-2008, 12:28 AM
There are 3+ years that say he won't.

Not saying he can't do it, but I wouldn't be holding my breath that the 2006 version is Joe Crede.
His last healthy yead was 06. This isn't like he had a monster 03 and we have been waiting for him to return to that form. I am not holding my breath about him either, but I believe his numbers will be closer to 06 than 07.

As for who was dogging Crede:
Less Joe Crede and Juan Uribe would be nice too. I know it's only 2 games - but one with his Flash type running skills (I can't remember back to back doubles that didn't score recently) and the other with his everyone knows I swing at high heat - both habitual pop-out masters if they do hit...
I don't know, I just don't think we have the best people on the field to win. Right now, Joe and Juan look bad and slow, Pablo needs to be in, I don't care if he's a bench player, at this point that's all juan is. Maybe Joe needs to go down to AAA to get his swing right, Josh is just a better option at this point.
Having Ramirez, Crede, and Uribe just going up there hacking at everything has already killed us, and will continue to do so.

oeo
04-03-2008, 12:29 AM
You both clearly value Crede a lot more than other teams do.

No, at this time, I don't think he's worth anything. If he has a good couple of months, and somebody loses a 3B, then you have a deal in the making.

oeo
04-03-2008, 12:30 AM
As for who was dogging Crede:

I've already explained what I meant by that. It's the other two that are the problem, but having Crede in there with those two makes the entire bottom look like ****. Put Quentin and Richar in there, and we're talking.

Elephant
04-03-2008, 12:32 AM
There's nothing to indicate he'll be coveted by anyone or that he'll even approach is below average career numbers.

I realize we're stuck with him for now, but the point is that's a big failure on KW's part. He should've been ****ing gone before the season started.

What a mess this team is.

TheOldRoman
04-03-2008, 12:33 AM
Put Quentin and Richar in there, and we're talking.Like I said, I agree.

Noneck
04-03-2008, 12:40 AM
I don't know and I don't think anyone else truly knows if Richar and Quentin are ready or the answer at this stage of the season. But this current lineup is a mule train. Speed has to be incorporated into the lineup and soon.

Optipessimism
04-03-2008, 12:43 AM
Mmm...what do you want KW to ask for? The ****ty AAA pitcher?

This is usually where negotiations start. Kenny wants a stud, they offer ****...you negotiate and come to a deal.
True, negotiations do begin far apart, but the crap SF was offering was much closer to Crede's value than what KW was asking for.

SF and LAD were the only teams that had a need, and considering the Dodgers' depth and SF's current state of sucktitude, neither HAD to have Crede. So you had apparently only 2 out of 29 other teams with interest and that interest was lukewarm at best. Kenny, meanwhile, had a younger player with a brighter future being blocked and had no need for Crede's salary. Kenny was clearly not in a position of strength there. I'm sure he could have negotiated down to a decent A-ball reliever or something but didn't because he felt Crede's worth was much greater, probably more like a B- prospect at worst. Crede is going to have to put together a pretty good season at the expense of Josh Fields in order for Kenny to get that. And even then, another team will have to come up with a need.

The likeliest situation involving a Crede trade IMO is him getting dealt near the deadline for the same type of Missing Link KW could have acquired in March.

soltrain21
04-03-2008, 01:05 AM
I can already tell that I don't like this team.

JB98
04-03-2008, 01:10 AM
I can already tell that I don't like this team.

I've been getting a bad vibe from about the midpoint of spring training up until now. I can't even put my finger on it. It's just a bad feeling. Hopefully, it's just indigestion.

FedEx227
04-03-2008, 01:14 AM
I've been getting a bad vibe from about the midpoint of spring training up until now. I can't even put my finger on it. It's just a bad feeling. Hopefully, it's just indigestion.

I have the same, yesterday made me say "Okay, never mind this won't be that pathetic" but today was no good.

There is no reason whatsoever that Juan Uribe should be on this team, no reason AT ALL.

JB98
04-03-2008, 01:23 AM
I have the same, yesterday made me say "Okay, never mind this won't be that pathetic" but today was no good.

There is no reason whatsoever that Juan Uribe should be on this team, no reason AT ALL.

I hope we don't have a 1-5 or 0-6 start. That might lead to boos on Opening Day.

gogosox16
04-03-2008, 01:26 AM
I hope we don't have a 1-5 or 0-6 start. That might lead to boos on Opening Day.
If we are, I think my tickets will quickly be availiable on Sunday night

CLR01
04-03-2008, 01:46 AM
There is no reason whatsoever that Juan Uribe should be on this team, no reason AT ALL.

IDK, I think some of the pitchers might like having a target to practice drilling. :shrug:

thomas35forever
04-03-2008, 01:48 AM
My friend likes Uribe because of his strong throwing arm. I dunno though. Exactly why do we keep giving him chances when we don't want to?

RockJock07
04-03-2008, 02:23 AM
My friend likes Uribe because of his strong throwing arm. I dunno though. Exactly why do we keep giving him chances when we don't want to?

I think the only reason they pulled him off of waivers this last time was because of Richar injury. They didn't want pablo playing every day because we have nothing behind pablo if he were to go down. Also Ozzie wanted to use Ramirez in the OF not 2b.

I think Kenny and Ozzie felt that they could make it by with Uribe and pablo, but now that Crede's bat is slow and ramirez swings at everything, it's just compounding the problem.

At this point no one is gonna take him, the sox just need to cut their losses and release him. Crede may be able to bring us something back in return but even that's looking bleaker and bleaker with each passing at-bat.

It's Dankerific
04-03-2008, 02:50 AM
At this point no one is gonna take him, the sox just need to cut their losses and release him. Crede may be able to bring us something back in return but even that's looking bleaker and bleaker with each passing at-bat.

Seriously, are you watching your own videogame performance? Crede has a hit in both games, a double and an RBI. You act like he's 0 fer.

Try watching the actual games being played.

RockJock07
04-03-2008, 03:13 AM
Seriously, are you watching your own videogame performance? Crede has a hit in both games, a double and an RBI. You act like he's 0 fer.

Try watching the actual games being played.

I wish I was, and it's not the at-bats were he gets hits, its the at-bats where he looks like he's lost that frustrate the hell out of me.

Look at Joe's career numbers man, he overachieved in 2006 and before that, he was average at best. I have the world series dvds, i know how important he was to this team. But the loyalty is gone, I'm sorry that I want to hold my players to a higher standard. If we didn't have a better player waiting in AAA then I would live with what we have but we do, so let's stop putting players out on the field that don't help us win. I will say that he doesn't hurt us like Juan does, but he's not worthy of starting when you have a better player waiting in AAA.

Also joe is not going to be a part of this team next year in any, way, shape or form, so what does it matter anyways.

It's Dankerific
04-03-2008, 03:27 AM
As I've tried to post a million times. Keeping Fields in AAA allows him to a) work on his defense and b) WE KEEP HIM ANOTHER YEAR.

What do you think is gonna happen when its time for Fields' money? Same thing as Garland, Crede, (and whoever else). We only have 50 cents. But Josh has options, if he wants to play in the MLB, have him sign a below market deal past his first few FA years, then I'm on the play Fields side.

Soxman219
04-03-2008, 08:56 AM
I just came back from Cleveland after watching the first two games and I'm not happy with this team. Game 1 was a moral victory but it wasn't a victory. I was feeling confident that the Sox would win last night, but it didn't happen. After Dye struck out with the bases loaded I left. The Indians fans were starting to make me angry yelling "Sox Suck!" as I left. Pitching is killing us this series, especially when our pitchers are ahead in the count! I hope they turn this around before our home opener.

cws05champ
04-03-2008, 09:14 AM
As I've tried to post a million times. Keeping Fields in AAA allows him to a) work on his defense and b) WE KEEP HIM ANOTHER YEAR.

What do you think is gonna happen when its time for Fields' money? Same thing as Garland, Crede, (and whoever else). We only have 50 cents. But Josh has options, if he wants to play in the MLB, have him sign a below market deal past his first few FA years, then I'm on the play Fields side.
I don't know about that....because Josh played in over 50 games last year, isn't his arbitration clock already started regardless of whether he is currently in the Majors or Minors?

It's the wrong time to be talking about dealing crede. If it was going to be done it would have during ST. Needs will arise for teams and with some fragile 3B around the league, the Sox may have more trading partners in 2 months. Crede is not the problem right now. Pitching, Uribe and hitting Ramirez 6 or 7th is. If you want to get Ramirez into the lineup fine, but put him at 2B in place of Uribe so we can have Quentin or BA in the line up. Uribe and Ramirez should not be in the same lineup.

Frontman
04-03-2008, 09:16 AM
As I've tried to post a million times. Keeping Fields in AAA allows him to a) work on his defense and b) WE KEEP HIM ANOTHER YEAR.

What do you think is gonna happen when its time for Fields' money? Same thing as Garland, Crede, (and whoever else). We only have 50 cents. But Josh has options, if he wants to play in the MLB, have him sign a below market deal past his first few FA years, then I'm on the play Fields side.

Oh sure, the Sox can keep him longer; but for what? If he isn't playing on the MLB roster, he's not contributing to the MLB team. Fields hitting .500 in Charolette won't earn a single run for the Chicago White Sox.

hi im skot
04-03-2008, 10:10 AM
:chickenlittle


Wow, this place is ridiculous.

rdwj
04-03-2008, 10:15 AM
There's nothing that supports he will ever match those numbers again. You can blame the back surgery, but maybe it was just a career year? There were quite a few guys that had very good offensive years in 2006.

There is nothing to support that he will never match those number again because HE'S JUST RETURNING NOW. Joe isn't a problem - he's going to be fine.

Jurr
04-03-2008, 10:20 AM
:chickenlittle


Wow, this place is ridiculous.
Man, I hope you're right.
We all came into this season knowing that there were going to be lots of questions that needed a positive answer for this season to be watchable versus being just another season that gets marked off of our list of Sox fandom. So far, not so good.

I can deal with the fact that the Sox were beaten by a sinkerballer in frigid weather. A good sinker is heavy enough on its own, and cold bats don't help things. Tip the cap. However, the bullpen already has some fans very nervous.

A great shot in the arm for this season would be some good performances by the back end of the rotation, and I am VERY eager to see the next three games. Buehrle and Vazquez will be fine. If the back end of the rotation can get some wins early, things will be looking a lot less cloudy.

I'm ready to watch the Sox win again. The last two seasons haven't been too darn terrible due to the fact that the glow of '05 was still warm within my veins. It's fading a little bit. I figure that most Sox fans are the same way....we're not playing with the house's money anymore.

Jurr
04-03-2008, 10:22 AM
There is nothing to support that he will never match those number again because HE'S JUST RETURNING NOW. Joe isn't a problem - he's going to be fine.
I hope so. I watch a 27 year old with two herniated discs walk around every day at our house, and I can tell you that she isn't quite what she used to be in a physical sense. She has become rather limited in what she can lift, her flexibility, and overall comfortability. You can perform surgery on these things, but that doesn't mean you will be anywhere near 100% again.

NLaloosh
04-03-2008, 10:27 AM
I have always felt bad watching Browns fans get absolutely pummeled at Steelers games. I don't feel NEARLY as bad after sitting with them Monday and watching them tonight. Trash.


You gotta feel for them though - having to live with those helmets. Pity the poor souls.

NLaloosh
04-03-2008, 10:34 AM
I've said it before, defense is going to be a problem with this team.

Swisher belongs in RF, Dye in LF and Anderson in CF with Quentin as the 4th OFer. Swisher spells Konerko at 1B and Quentin backs up RF and LF.

2ND base ? I don't know if anyone in the organization plays it better than Uribe? Does Richar ? If so, that's good news.

oeo
04-03-2008, 10:45 AM
There is nothing to support that he will never match those number again because HE'S JUST RETURNING NOW. Joe isn't a problem - he's going to be fine.

How many times do I have to repeat myself? I never said he was a problem.

#1swisher
04-03-2008, 10:45 AM
I have always felt bad watching Browns fans get absolutely pummeled at Steelers games. I don't feel NEARLY as bad after sitting with them Monday and watching them tonight. Trash.

I know what you mean...sitting with the twinkies fans was brutal last year @ the doubleheader.
I muted the game after the 6th.

Dan Mega
04-03-2008, 10:54 AM
Reading some of these comments its as if people were expecting things to be better. The team's best CF is on the bench and an AA caliber player is currently starting in center. Uribe is playing 2nd. MacDougal is still on the team.

The blame lies more on who is making the roster decisions at this point.

TomBradley72
04-03-2008, 11:10 AM
After two games....I don't see the problem as Crede or Uribe or Ramirez in particular. With the line up/batting order we put out there every day...this season is predicated on pitching anrd defense.

Pitching in the 1st Two Games: Masset and Logan good. Buehrle, Dotal, MacDougal, Vazquez....awful. Last night we issued 7 walks + a HBP to a very good team. It doesn't matter who's in CF, 2B or 3B if that's what your getting from your staff.

Defense in the 1st Two Games: Dye misplaying that triple was the turning point last night. Cabrera/Uribe missed a few DP opportunities on Opening Day. We need air tight defense to support our shakey pitching staff.

The Nats are 3-0, the Royals are 2-0, the Tigers are 0-2....no reason to panic yet...

kittle42
04-03-2008, 11:38 AM
\What do you think is gonna happen when its time for Fields' money? Same thing as Garland, Crede, (and whoever else). We only have 50 cents.

Hopefully, the front office will all be gone by then.

kaufsox
04-03-2008, 12:12 PM
I don't get why they call him a trador when it is their broke ass town and broke as franchise that did not want to pay him the money.

Screw that damn town.

Cleveland is 2nd in line to Detroit as for future Nuclear Weapons test sites.

As a former resident of Cleveland, I'm all for screwing the whole town. My dad is a lifelong Indian and Brown fan and he gets embarrassed by the behavior. Man, was that a brutal game. Went to the "tivo two out speed" early on with that one.

BTW: traitor- one who betrays. As in "My father calls me traitor during the entire baseball season."