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View Full Version : Dutchie Caray Enraged at AT&T Commercials


Viva Medias B's
03-31-2008, 09:26 AM
WGN-Channel 9's morning news is doing its annual broadcast from the Shrine, and they just interviewed Dutchie Caray at the new Harry Caray's Tavern (where Hi-Tops was). She told the WGN reporter interviewing her that she is enraged at the AT&T commercials with her late husband's caricature! Among other things, she said the commercials made her sick. I guess Dutchie does not have the legacy rights to Harry's likeness, for she would never have approved them based on that interview.

Way to go Dutchie!

:bandance:

RedHeadPaleHoser
03-31-2008, 09:27 AM
Good for her. Those commercials, both radio and TV, are plain bad AND in poor taste. John Camonera(sp?) should be ashamed of himself.

DumpJerry
03-31-2008, 09:28 AM
She and just about everyone else who has been subjected to them, even Cub fans.

Viva Medias B's
03-31-2008, 09:30 AM
I guess this poses the question as to who owns the rights to Harry's likeness. If AT&T does not own it, can Dutchie sue them?

DumpJerry
03-31-2008, 09:34 AM
I guess this poses the question as to who owns the rights to Harry's likeness. If AT&T does not own it, can Dutchie sue them?
I'm sure AT&T covered their bases before making the commercials. I'm betting Harry licensed his likeness to an agency so he could make a buck or two off it without getting involved in the details.

The use of Harry's likeness is just like any other deceased famous person (Elvis comes to mind). If you pay a fee to the license holder after they approve of the manner in which you will be using the likeness, you can use per the terms of the agreement.

soxfan21
03-31-2008, 09:34 AM
I saw that this morning as well, I liked how she said that she wanted to do an AT&T commercial all tangled in phone wire and choking herself. Got a laugh out of that. I was glad that she was enraged about this because I am tired of seeing these commercials as well.

Jerko
03-31-2008, 09:37 AM
I don't know, I just laugh when I see those commercials. No worse than some of the guest "conductors" they have doing the 7th inning stretch IMO. Some of those losers are a real slap in the face to Harry's memory.

The Critic
03-31-2008, 09:41 AM
If she wanted to raise a big enough stink, it could end up being pretty bad PR for AT&T. Which is okay by me, since those commercials are unfunny, unoriginal and insulting.

Viva Medias B's
03-31-2008, 09:42 AM
I don't know, I just laugh when I see those commercials. No worse than some of the guest "conductors" they have doing the 7th inning stretch IMO. Some of those losers are a real slap in the face to Harry's memory.

Right on! The fact that it has become a vehicle to cross-promote TribCo properties is all the proof you need, not to mention "guest conductors" butchering it so badly that it makes a mockery of what Harry and Bill Veeck started on our side of town.

dickallen15
03-31-2008, 10:30 AM
In one commercial, he is standing in the press box, so the Cubs must have given permission to do so. They are hard to watch, and aren't funny or respectful to say the least. I always wondered what she thought. I read a long time ago that Harry really hated the impersonations of him.

skottyj242
03-31-2008, 10:42 AM
Do you need permission for something like this? Wasn't he a "public figure" and it's open season on stuff like that? I have no idea about legal stuff.

Steelrod
03-31-2008, 10:45 AM
When you perpetuate a character like him and don't let him rest in peace, you can expect good and bad! Kind of a pity.

UofCSoxFan
03-31-2008, 10:59 AM
These commercials are offensive if nothing other than the fact that they are terribly unfunny. The Harry Carey impersination is so cliched at this point, and his isn't even good.

This is the same guy that did those bad McDonald's "Blinker Boy" commercials a few years back. Ugh.

Carolina Kenny
03-31-2008, 11:09 AM
In one commercial, he is standing in the press box, so the Cubs must have given permission to do so. They are hard to watch, and aren't funny or respectful to say the least. I always wondered what she thought. I read a long time ago that Harry really hated the impersonations of him.

We had a thread on this subject a few weeks ago when the commercials first came out. I said I thought they were tastless, and got slammed for saying that.

If true, that Dutchy hates the commericials, this confirms by belief that they are in no particular order:

Not funny.
Tasteless
Stupid
Harry would have hated them.

viagracat
03-31-2008, 11:09 AM
I think the Harry Caray ad campaign was slated to end today (March 31).

I agree, they were lame.

voodoochile
03-31-2008, 11:15 AM
I'm sure AT&T covered their bases before making the commercials. I'm betting Harry licensed his likeness to an agency so he could make a buck or two off it without getting involved in the details.

The use of Harry's likeness is just like any other deceased famous person (Elvis comes to mind). If you pay a fee to the license holder after they approve of the manner in which you will be using the likeness, you can use per the terms of the agreement.

Don't be so sure they aren't just calling it satire and not paying anyone a dime for those rights.

At that stage of the game they can be held accountable for poor taste, but not for stealing a likeness.

Jjav829
03-31-2008, 11:22 AM
These commercials are offensive if nothing other than the fact that they are terribly unfunny. The Harry Carey impersination is so cliched at this point, and his isn't even good.


Exactly. The commercials are not funny in the least bit.

Government cheese? :rolleyes:

PopsBrechtel
03-31-2008, 11:25 AM
I think the Harry Caray ad campaign was slated to end today (March 31).

I sure hope they're over. They were just plain painful to watch.

sox1970
03-31-2008, 11:31 AM
I think the Harry Caray ad campaign was slated to end today (March 31).

I agree, they were lame.

I heard the same thing. I also heard the estate had to give permission, so they get what they deserve by pimping his likeness out.

ksimpson14
03-31-2008, 11:32 AM
Why should we form an opinion? Why should any of us care if the family doesn't...oh wait

Rocky Soprano
03-31-2008, 11:34 AM
I heard the same thing. I also heard the estate had to give permission, so they get what they deserve by pimping his likeness out.

That's right, they did get permission to run the ads. But they claimed the ads would be a tribute to Caray. I've yet to see the tribute portion of the ads.

sox1970
03-31-2008, 11:37 AM
That's right, they did get permission to run the ads. But they claimed the ads would be a tribute to Caray. I've yet to see the tribute portion of the ads.

So they didn't know they'd use an impersonation? How about reviewing the script next time.

Rocky Soprano
03-31-2008, 11:41 AM
So they didn't know they'd use an impersonation? How about reviewing the script next time.

I saw Fox News do something on those ads and they made it seem like AT&T went to the agency to get approval, they told them it would be a tribute to Caray and they gave permission. I dont think the agency had any input in the ads and probably saw them for the first time when we all saw them.

sox1970
03-31-2008, 11:43 AM
I saw Fox News do something on those ads and they made it seem like AT&T went to the agency to get approval, they told them it would be a tribute to Caray and they gave permission. I dont think the agency had any input in the ads and probably saw them for the first time when we all saw them.

I guess they learned a lesson then.

PatK
03-31-2008, 12:08 PM
I heard the same thing. I also heard the estate had to give permission, so they get what they deserve by pimping his likeness out.

Exactly.

skottyj242
03-31-2008, 12:15 PM
I saw Fox News do something on those ads and they made it seem like AT&T went to the agency to get approval, they told them it would be a tribute to Caray and they gave permission. I dont think the agency had any input in the ads and probably saw them for the first time when we all saw them.

Maybe they think it is a tribute?

Fenway
03-31-2008, 12:35 PM
:o:

Somebody thought this was a good idea??????????/

yFNLCyLBFu4

Noneck
03-31-2008, 12:48 PM
I got a feeling if she was getting the royalty's she wouldn't mind the commercials much.

TDog
03-31-2008, 02:01 PM
When you perpetuate a character like him and don't let him rest in peace, you can expect good and bad! Kind of a pity.

I don't know who owns any trademark rights to his likeness, but from a satirical perspective, Harry Caray was a public figure who was a drunken buffoon -- increasingly so in his later years. With the way he and the Cubs exploited his image in life and death, while I haven't seen the commercials, I can't imagine they're worse than what he has coming to him.

I'm sure the widow is upset, but it isn't like she was married to Linus Pauling or J.D. Salinger or even Thomas Pynchon.

The most troubling aspect is that AT&T seems to be using Harry Caray's image to endorse commercial interests.

PatK
03-31-2008, 02:06 PM
I don't know who owns any trademark rights to his likeness, but from a satirical perspective, Harry Caray was a public figure who was a drunken buffoon -- increasingly so in his later years. With the way he and the Cubs exploited his image in life and death, while I haven't seen the commercials, I can't imagine they're worse than what he has coming to him.
.

I thought he had to quit drinking after he had the stroke in the late 80s and all that slurring was the brain damage talking.

TDog
03-31-2008, 02:10 PM
I thought he had to quit drinking after he had the stroke in the late 80s and all that slurring was the brain damage talking.

Where he was near the end was the result of a life of heavy drinking in any case.

PatK
03-31-2008, 02:23 PM
Where he was near the end was the result of a life of heavy drinking in any case.

I'll never forget being at a Cubs vs Mets double header in 1984 and my brother and I kept looking at the press box with our binoculars and by the middle of the second game, he had so many beer cups stacked up by him you couldn't see his face.

asg2003ws2005
03-31-2008, 02:24 PM
that's what happens when you sell out for money, dutchie

jabrch
03-31-2008, 02:40 PM
I don't know who owns any trademark rights to his likeness, but from a satirical perspective, Harry Caray was a public figure who was a drunken buffoon -- increasingly so in his later years. With the way he and the Cubs exploited his image in life and death, while I haven't seen the commercials, I can't imagine they're worse than what he has coming to him.

I'm sure the widow is upset, but it isn't like she was married to Linus Pauling or J.D. Salinger or even Thomas Pynchon.

The most troubling aspect is that AT&T seems to be using Harry Caray's image to endorse commercial interests.

The estate does own the liscense, and did permit AT&T to use it. The issue is that the use may or may not have been as the estate desires.

I'm sure lawyers and contracts and all that crap will come into play. I'd be surprised if AT&T doesn't pull those spots quickly to avoid exposure.

Railsplitter
03-31-2008, 08:23 PM
Some weeks ago I started a thread to the effect I thought the AT&T spots were tasteless.

If it's not copyrighted, then it's public domain, I guess.

That may explain why the John Wayne's estate has copyrighted his image. This may be the same with other dead celebs.

LongLiveFisk
03-31-2008, 09:13 PM
I'll never forget being at a Cubs vs Mets double header in 1984 and my brother and I kept looking at the press box with our binoculars and by the middle of the second game, he had so many beer cups stacked up by him you couldn't see his face.

That's interesting because I heard Steve Stone say (I think on more than one occasion) that Harry never drank in the booth.

Frontman
03-31-2008, 09:15 PM
I give Dutchie credit. If the estate/agency was told one thing, and AT&T went and did another; she's got every right to be upset over it.

Look, Harry had some rough years at the end, but he doesn't deserve to be mocked 10 years after his death. This was the same guy who contributed to the Harry Carey documentary a few years ago; so I think he could of done a better job of being more respectful.

TDog
03-31-2008, 09:44 PM
I give Dutchie credit. If the estate/agency was told one thing, and AT&T went and did another; she's got every right to be upset over it.

Look, Harry had some rough years at the end, but he doesn't deserve to be mocked 10 years after his death. This was the same guy who contributed to the Harry Carey documentary a few years ago; so I think he could of done a better job of being more respectful.

I don't think anyone is disrespecting Harry Carey, the silent film star. From a satirical perspective, I think Harry Caray deserved to be mocked while he was still alive and deserves to be mocked as long as people remember him. The man made a living out of being a buffoonish beer salesman. But the complaint here isn't about satire. Copyright protection of his image doesn't protect him from being mocked.

Here his image is being used to promote a commercial interest. If it were a question of his widow not wanting his image used in connection with a commercial interest, there would be a problem. If, as it appears, the family gave consent to the image being used, I have no sympathy.

Respect would be not allowing Harry Caray's image to be used in any commercial. The widow apparently would consider that too big a sacrifice, and can you blame her? Look at how the an made his living. His son and grandson have more dignity.

Foulke You
03-31-2008, 09:47 PM
surprised if AT&T doesn't pull those spots quickly to avoid exposure.
The Sun Times claims the ads will stop running by Aprill 1st. I'm sure the bad press and the fact that they weren't received well by Chicago fans has a lot to do with it.

Noneck
03-31-2008, 09:48 PM
Where he was near the end was the result of a life of heavy drinking in any case.

And maybe being 83 years old?

Frontman
03-31-2008, 09:57 PM
I don't think anyone is disrespecting Harry Carey, the silent film star. From a satirical perspective, I think Harry Caray deserved to be mocked while he was still alive and deserves to be mocked as long as people remember him. The man made a living out of being a buffoonish beer salesman. But the complaint here isn't about satire. Copyright protection of his image doesn't protect him from being mocked.

Here his image is being used to promote a commercial interest. If it were a question of his widow not wanting his image used in connection with a commercial interest, there would be a problem. If, as it appears, the family gave consent to the image being used, I have no sympathy.

Respect would be not allowing Harry Caray's image to be used in any commercial. The widow apparently would consider that too big a sacrifice, and can you blame her? Look at how the an made his living. His son and grandson have more dignity.

You can have fun with a person without it being a mockery. It's far easier to go for a cheap laugh by being insulting; versus being creative.

And honestly, AT&T should of thought that a dead sports broadcaster impression isn't going to get folks to line up and buy their products.

santo=dorf
03-31-2008, 10:02 PM
This thread title should be changed to "Dutchie Caray Enraged Not To Be Cashing In On Stupid AT&T Commercials."

The guy was a legend, and I'm sure he wants to be remember any way. Did Dutchie whine when everyone in the crowd was wearing giant oversized glasses? What about the embarrassing renditions of TMOTTBG?

TDog
03-31-2008, 10:09 PM
You can have fun with a person without it being a mockery. It's far easier to go for a cheap laugh by being insulting; versus being creative.

And honestly, AT&T should of thought that a dead sports broadcaster impression isn't going to get folks to line up and buy their products.


You're right. If a commercial turns people off it its product, it should be withdrawn.

But as Steve Martin said (or maybe it was Jerry Seinfeld, or Jerry Seinfeld quoting Steve Martin quoting Groucho Marx), "This is comedy. Somebody's going to get hurt."

Viva Medias B's
03-31-2008, 11:17 PM
That's interesting because I heard Steve Stone say (I think on more than one occasion) that Harry never drank in the booth.

He is wrong. I have video proof of Harry drinking Budweiser in the booth.

Soxfanspcu11
04-01-2008, 12:37 AM
The use of Harry's likeness is just like any other deceased famous person (Elvis comes to mind).



http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:d_d8hKAm8EZaEM:http://z.about.com/d/animatedtv/1/7/F/A/krustyheyhey.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://z.about.com/d/animatedtv/1/7/F/A/krustyheyhey.jpg&imgrefurl=http://animatedtv.about.com/od/picturegalleries/ig/The-Simpsons-Other-Characters/Krusty-the-Clown-Says-Hey--Hey.htm&h=500&w=407&sz=97&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=d_d8hKAm8EZaEM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=106&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkrusty%2Bthe%2Bclown%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3 Den)
"I turn on the TV and all I see is Dead Celebrities selling Vaccum Cleaners!"

Parrothead
04-01-2008, 12:43 AM
Honestly, who cares what Dutchie thinks or for that matter Grant DePorter. As long anything gets the Harry Carry name out there and keeps it out there they are happy. The whole over the top Harry love needs to go the way of Ditka, Jordan and the 85 Bears...It all needs to end and they all need to be put out to pasture. It is embarrasing.

HaroMaster87
04-01-2008, 03:46 AM
Oh cry me a river Dutchie...I'm sure she'll feel a little better when she cashes her next check from her dead husband's restaurant corporation that is plastered with cartoonie pictures of him everywhere....


boo...freaking...hoooooo :whiner:

soxfan13
04-01-2008, 09:09 AM
That's interesting because I heard Steve Stone say (I think on more than one occasion) that Harry never drank in the booth.

The later years he didnt drink but Harry was known for drinking during the games in his hey days.

PatK
04-01-2008, 09:39 AM
That's interesting because I heard Steve Stone say (I think on more than one occasion) that Harry never drank in the booth.

I think he would say something like that because I always thought it was technically illegal to be drinking while broadcasting.

SOXPHILE
04-01-2008, 09:42 AM
Whatever the argument is about the commercials being in bad taste, or Dutchie only crying because she didn't get a cut, all that aside, the commercials are just plain BAD and STUPID. She was just on the Score talking about them now. The funny thing is, on B & B about a week or two ago, they made a veiled reference to the adds, saying they were getting all the texts, e-mails and faxes about a "certain add", and that they understood what everyone was saying. It was obvious they were about the A T & T adds, but they couldn't really say anything, because they are a sponsor, and the adds were / are running on The Score.

Sad
04-01-2008, 09:42 AM
The later years he didnt drink but Harry was known for drinking during the games in his hey days.

not according to Steve Stone in his book "Where's Harry?"

kittle42
04-01-2008, 10:57 AM
Whatever the argument is about the commercials being in bad taste, or Dutchie only crying because she didn't get a cut, all that aside, the commercials are just plain BAD and STUPID. She was just on the Score talking about them now. The funny thing is, on B & B about a week or two ago, they made a veiled reference to the adds, saying they were getting all the texts, e-mails and faxes about a "certain add", and that they understood what everyone was saying. It was obvious they were about the A T & T adds, but they couldn't really say anything, because they are a sponsor, and the adds were / are running on The Score.

What's an add?

SOXPHILE
04-01-2008, 11:09 AM
What's an add?

An additional ad added on to the original ad.

TheVulture
04-01-2008, 04:21 PM
From what I understand, he was a Bud man and a Cub's fan. Before that, what he wouldn't give for an ice-cold Schlitz. Apparently, they warmed up by the time they got to the centerfield bleachers.

jabrch
04-01-2008, 04:48 PM
From what I understand, he was a Bud man and a Cub's fan. Before that, what he wouldn't give for an ice-cold Schlitz. Apparently, they warmed up by the time they got to the centerfield bleachers.

and before that - the "choicest product of a brewer's art" was Falstaff...

Noneck
04-01-2008, 05:52 PM
and before that - the "choicest product of a brewer's art" was Falstaff...

and before that, any brew that would put a few coins in his pocket. A master marketer he was.

LongLiveFisk
04-01-2008, 10:48 PM
He is wrong. I have video proof of Harry drinking Budweiser in the booth.

Really? Is that an old Sox game you have on videotape showing Harry drinking in the booth?

rommel13
04-02-2008, 01:46 AM
Maybe Dutchie forgot how much Harry enjoyed John's impersonation.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9s7YhxPATPQ

Viva Medias B's
04-02-2008, 08:42 AM
Really? Is that an old Sox game you have on videotape showing Harry drinking in the booth?

It's actually a telecast from 8/8/1988, the Cubs' first attempted night game at Wrigley Field. It's on an old Beta tape. IIRC, Harry has Bill Murray in the booth. WGN shows a shot of them with Harry saying "It's a warm night" and taking a sip from a can of Budweiser in a can cooler.

bigfoot
04-07-2008, 02:58 PM
It would seem that the AT&T ad agency was correct. The Harry spot ad DID its job. The ad certainly created a lasting impression upon many people. Did it cause an increase in sales for AT&T? They'll know shortly. The timing of the ad spot was just before the season and should have ended when it did.

Many new buyers of wireless products weren't aware of Harry, pre-Cub era.
If they were influenced by the send-up, then the ad did its job.