PDA

View Full Version : Have We Ever Had a Slower Starting OF Than Quentin/Swisher/Dye?


TomBradley72
03-30-2008, 08:49 AM
If we go with a starting outfield of Quentin in LF, Swisher in CF and Dye in RF...can anyone remember us having a starting outfield this slow/with such minimal range? Each of them are at least adequate for their individual positions...but combined...there's not one OF that would have speed/range included in his strengths.

Can anyone remember a White Sox starting outfield that had a similar lack of speed? Not really looking to debate whether BA or Ramirez should be in there...just trying to compare to history.

russ99
03-30-2008, 08:57 AM
Well, in 2004 we had Lee and Ordonez in the corners, but Rowand manned center so it evened out.

Also, I think Swisher has a decent amount of range, but not as much foot speed in CF as preferred.

Vernam
03-30-2008, 09:16 AM
I don't actually remember it, but according to my dearly departed father, an outfield of Zeke Bonura and any two other guys would pretty much be the slowest ever. :cool:

Vernam

gogosox16
03-30-2008, 09:20 AM
That lineup would only occur if we give Alexei a day off since it seems he will be the Center Fielder until Owens gets back and I believe that once Owens is healthy enough, they will send Quentin to Tripe-A to get more playing time because it does him no good getting 10 at-bats a weeks.

TomBradley72
03-30-2008, 09:25 AM
That lineup would only occur if we give Alexei a day off since it seems he will be the Center Fielder until Owens gets back and I believe that once Owens is healthy enough, they will send Quentin to Tripe-A to get more playing time because it does him no good getting 10 at-bats a weeks.

From everythng Ozzie has said along with his "Mackowiak in CF strategy"....I think we're going to see this more often than you think.

gogosox16
03-30-2008, 09:28 AM
From everythng Ozzie has said along with his "Mackowiak in CF strategy"....I think we're going to see this more often than you think.
Well then, their will be a lot of bloop hits and If Jerry does come back when he's projected to be ready, it won't be a long time for that outfield unless if the were to keep 6 outfielders, which I would find extremely unlikely. So it is either Quentin or Anderson and Quentin has options left (I believe), so he would be the logical move.

TomBradley72
03-30-2008, 09:32 AM
Well then, their will be a lot of bloop hits and If Jerry does come back when he's projected to be ready, it won't be a long time for that outfield unless if the were to keep 6 outfielders, which I would find extremely unlikely. So it is either Quentin or Anderson and Quentin has options left (I believe), so he would be the logical move.

I agree with your logic...is Anderson out of options?

gogosox16
03-30-2008, 09:34 AM
I agree with your logic...is Anderson out of options?
I'm pretty sure. Not positive though

Craig Grebeck
03-30-2008, 09:46 AM
Quentin is the best defensive OF this team has.

gogosox16
03-30-2008, 09:49 AM
Quentin is the best defensive OF this team has.
You think he's better than Anderson?

pearso66
03-30-2008, 10:18 AM
I would have to say Anderson is the best defensive OFer on this team.

thedudeabides
03-30-2008, 10:26 AM
I agree with your logic...is Anderson out of options?

Anderson is not out of options. Quentin is a plus corner outfielder, but not a centerfielder. Swisher isn't exactly fast, but neither was Rowand. Nick will be decent in center. I personally hope he doesn't play a majority of games there, but he is adequate.

slavko
03-30-2008, 10:48 AM
Jermaine, ol' bud, we should never have signed you, even if we owed it to you. It pains me to say it, but baseball is cruel, just like life. He is a nice RH DH if Thome (when Thome) goes down.

kevingrt
03-30-2008, 10:53 AM
Jermaine, ol' bud, we should never have signed you, even if we owed it to you. It pains me to say it, but baseball is cruel, just like life. He is a nice LH DH if Thome (when Thome) goes down.

I'm starting to agree with you more day by day. The extra money from that deal would have been very nice and someone else in RF would have been very nice. But prove me wrong JD, please I would love it.

oeo
03-30-2008, 10:54 AM
I don't think it's extremely slow. We'll take a hit in CF, and a huge hit in RF in terms of range, but I can't believe people are whining after we just went through Pods-Mackowiak-Dye, then Pods-Erstad-Dye (or substitute Ozuna/Gonzalez in for Pods) the last two years.

This is easily our best outfield since Lee-Rowand-Ordonez, so I'm not going to complain.

Taliesinrk
03-30-2008, 10:54 AM
Quentin is the best defensive OF this team has.

Oh come on. It's too early to be drinking.

I mean that bloop single in the 8th (or was it 7th or 9th) yesterday in the Memphis game showed Quentin's great break on balls.

ArkanSox
03-30-2008, 11:04 AM
Oh come on. It's too early to be drinking.

I mean that bloop single in the 8th (or was it 7th or 9th) yesterday in the Memphis game showed Quentin's great break on balls.

That ball was in the air a long time. I was surprised that it wasn't a bloop double.

oeo
03-30-2008, 11:07 AM
That ball was in the air a long time. I was surprised that it wasn't a bloop double.

I don't agree with Craig, but I hope we're going to judge Quentin's defensive abilities on one play...

Elephant
03-30-2008, 11:14 AM
BA has outhit Quentin by a long shot and he would displace Swisher to left where he's an asset instead of a liability. Swisher, BA, Dye is a solid outfield. The one we're going with is not solid.

But you know, guys like Quentin and Owens have earned their stripes so ST numbers don't really matter. Whatever gives us the lowest chance to win, I guess.

California Sox
03-30-2008, 11:22 AM
I like BA, I'm happy he's on the team. I hope he's the starting centerfielder with Alexei getting most of his playing time in the infield. BUT I think I've been watching a different Carlos Quentin than you guys have. He looks really good at the plate to me. He's compact, short to the ball, has a good eye, and (a key in the Cell) he has good power to right center. I don't think he'll be on the bench/at Charlotte forever.

PalehosePlanet
03-30-2008, 11:39 AM
I like BA, I'm happy he's on the team. I hope he's the starting centerfielder with Alexei getting most of his playing time in the infield. BUT I think I've been watching a different Carlos Quentin than you guys have. He looks really good at the plate to me. He's compact, short to the ball, has a good eye, and (a key in the Cell) he has good power to right center. I don't think he'll be on the bench/at Charlotte forever.

I agree on Carlos and I hope he gets alot of playing time. He's actually had a very good spring (2-4 yesterday and robbed of a 3rd hit) and deserves to play ahead of Owens.

As for the bloop hit down the left field line, he had to run through a wet and sloppy field from deep left center to try and get to that ball, yet he's getting slammed for not making the play.

The anti-Quentin dialogue on these pages lately has been beyond stupid.

ArkanSox
03-30-2008, 11:50 AM
I don't agree with Craig, but I hope we're going to judge Quentin's defensive abilities on one play...

Funny you should say that, oeo, since it's the only play I've ever seen him attempt to make. Was watching the basketball game yesterday and flipped over to catch the last couple of innings. I must admit that I was a little lost with some of the new faces and ESPN's coverage which really sucked, unless you're more interested in Joe Morgan's former exploits than who's pitching, batting, etc. I'll have to catch up with the team on DTv I guess.

oeo
03-30-2008, 12:02 PM
BA has outhit Quentin by a long shot and he would displace Swisher to left where he's an asset instead of a liability. Swisher, BA, Dye is a solid outfield. The one we're going with is not solid.

But you know, guys like Quentin and Owens have earned their stripes so ST numbers don't really matter. Whatever gives us the lowest chance to win, I guess.

If a 'long shot' is getting more ABs, then I guess you're right.

Craig Grebeck
03-30-2008, 12:03 PM
I should have mentioned that I meant of the three, Quentin is the best. I'm fairly sure he could play CF better than JO as well. Can you imagine how good a Swisher/Anderson/Quentin OF would be?!

I am truly embarrassed that Ramirez is in CF.

Taliesinrk
03-30-2008, 12:16 PM
I should have mentioned that I meant of the three, Quentin is the best. I'm fairly sure he could play CF better than JO as well. Can you imagine how good a Swisher/Anderson/Quentin OF would be?!

I am truly embarrassed that Ramirez is in CF.

Well I'll be.. we agree!! (not necessaily about the JO comment, but it's a step forward) That OF would look pretty nice. I should also mention, to be fair, that it was a half-joke about the ball he didn't get to yesterday. While I was really confused as to how the runner didn't end up on second, I obviously wasn't trying to judge a player by one play... just thought it wasn't the most stellar D I'd ever seen.

I think Quentin's hitting playing pretty well too.. I just know that BA's getting the big shaft right now.

Craig Grebeck
03-30-2008, 12:18 PM
Well I'll be.. we agree!! (not necessaily about the JO comment, but it's a step forward) That OF would look pretty nice. I should also mention, to be fair, that it was a half-joke about the ball he didn't get to yesterday. While I was really confused as to how the runner didn't end up on second, I obviously wasn't trying to judge a player by one play... just thought it wasn't the most stellar D I'd ever seen.

I think Quentin's hitting playing pretty well too.. I just know that BA's getting the big shaft right now.
Absolutely. Ramirez over BA is the most puzzling move in Ozzie's tenure. If you're going to sacrifice that defense, put the better offensive player in LF (Quentin) and Swisher in CF.

DickAllen72
03-30-2008, 12:39 PM
If we go with a starting outfield of Quentin in LF, Swisher in CF and Dye in RF...can anyone remember us having a starting outfield this slow/with such minimal range? Each of them are at least adequate for their individual positions...but combined...there's not one OF that would have speed/range included in his strengths.

Can anyone remember a White Sox starting outfield that had a similar lack of speed?
1971 - Carlos May LF, Rick Reichardt CF , and Walt Williams RF?

TheOldRoman
03-30-2008, 12:50 PM
The only outfielder with below average speed is Dye. Quentin is a great RF playing left (not a bad thing), and Swisher will be better than average in CF (if that is where he ends up). Both Swisher and Quentin have very good speed, though none of them are track stars. This is a non-issue.

TomBradley72
03-30-2008, 12:52 PM
1971 - Carlos May LF, Rick Reichardt CF , and Walt Williams RF?

I think you're right...when I thought of them I kept putting Pat Kelly in RF so that gave them a little speed in the OF.

wassagstdu
03-30-2008, 01:07 PM
As for the bloop hit down the left field line, [Quentin] had to run through a wet and sloppy field from deep left center to try and get to that ball, yet he's getting slammed for not making the play.

The anti-Quentin dialogue on these pages lately has been beyond stupid.

I thought the whole outfield looked BAD (and I don't mean that in a good way) in the Memphis game, but I assumed they were running cautiously because of the sloppy field.

Quentin aside, I think there is an amazing amount of anti-Sox player dialog on these pages. If only they weren't filled with these incompetents, the empty uniforms could keep us proud and would never embarrass us among Cub fans.

Red Barchetta
03-30-2008, 02:38 PM
I don't actually remember it, but according to my dearly departed father, an outfield of Zeke Bonura and any two other guys would pretty much be the slowest ever. :cool:

Vernam

I don't remember who was in CF, however when we experimented with Fisk in LF (with Baines in RF), that had to be pretty ugly! :cool:

A. Cavatica
03-30-2008, 03:48 PM
Some of the late 70s - early 80s teams were very slow. Until Ron LeFlore and Rudy Law, that is.

UofCSoxFan
03-30-2008, 07:24 PM
All I know is I'm just glad Rob Mackowiak isn't out there. Not only was he slow but he'd get terrible jumps with worse routes.

soxinem1
03-31-2008, 06:59 AM
Quentin probably has the best arm of the group once he is full strength.

BA has the best range and instincts.

Swisher is not bad, but if he were to be in LF and left there, it would probably be best.

Still, Ramirez looks like Alfonso Soriano in the OF (and INF for that matter, so far).

Dye is waiting to replace Thome. Enough said.

But this is the first time we've employed this type of an 'All Out Of Position OF' in some time.

I think KW being forced to play 3B in 1988 has left long term psycological damage....... Ozzie was on that team too, after all.....

With several pitchers who throw a ton of fly ball outs, this should be interesting........

jabrch
03-31-2008, 07:33 AM
I'd like to know what it is that people will not bitch about...

TomBradley72
04-03-2008, 10:51 AM
Dye is waiting to replace Thome. Enough said.



Dye has to have most limited range of any starting RF.

Along with Swisher having probably the most limited range of any starting CF and Quentin "average" in LF....this could get ugly. It's pretty much three LF's making up your outfield.

btrain929
04-03-2008, 10:57 AM
Dye has to have most limited range of any starting RF.

Along with Swisher having probably the most limited range of any starting CF and Quentin "average" in LF....this could get ugly. It's pretty much three LF's making up your outfield.

Would you prefer an OF of Owens, Anderson, and Quentin? Great defense, combined with about 30 hrs total and a collective .255 avg.

C'mon :rolleyes:

TomBradley72
04-03-2008, 11:04 AM
Would you prefer an OF of Owens, Anderson, and Quentin? Great defense, combined with about 30 hrs total and a collective .255 avg.

C'mon :rolleyes:

No...I'd prefer Swisher/Anderson/Dye.....we have the 6th highest payroll is baseball....you'd figure we could put a decent defensive outfield out there.

Noneck
04-03-2008, 11:37 AM
1971 - Carlos May LF, Rick Reichardt CF , and Walt Williams RF?

I believe Reichardt played RF, Pat Kelly and Noneck platooned in LF and Jay Johnstone played alot of Cf. Carlos May was at 1st.

voodoochile
04-03-2008, 11:45 AM
No...I'd prefer Swisher/Anderson/Dye.....we have the 6th highest payroll is baseball....you'd figure we could put a decent defensive outfield out there.

40 minutes later and Swisher appears to be plenty fast to play CF, care to rephrase your bull**** statement?

TomBradley72
04-03-2008, 02:18 PM
40 minutes later and Swisher appears to be plenty fast to play CF, care to rephrase your bull**** statement?

Because of one play? Not a chance. Why the hostility? My point wasn't that Swisher can't catch a ball in the alley at Progressive Field. My point was this outfield "combination" has very little range. Swisher could be an adequate CF...but with Dye's limited range in RF...the combination could be a problem.

So far we have very few nominees for White Sox starting outfields that have been slower (when Fisk was a LF,May/Johnstone/Reichardt or some outfield in that included Zeke Bonura). Point made.

champagne030
04-03-2008, 02:21 PM
you'd figure we could put a decent defensive outfield out there.

We did at the end of the game. Luckily that Swisher error didn't cost us the game.

DickAllen72
04-03-2008, 02:30 PM
I believe Reichardt played RF, Pat Kelly and Noneck platooned in LF and Jay Johnstone played alot of Cf. Carlos May was at 1st.
I remember Tanner began playing Reichardt in CF with Williams and Kelly platooning in RF. Maybe you're correct about '71, maybe I'm thinking of '72 after Allen took over at 1B....

DickAllen72
04-03-2008, 02:33 PM
We did at the end of the game. Luckily that Swisher error didn't cost us the game.
You mean that Dye bonehead play, interfering with the CFer's ball like he commonly does. Dye seems like he can never catch up to balls hit towards his left, but he's always colliding or nearly colliding with the CFer on balls hit to right-center which are clearly the CFer's ball.

From the replays, it appeared Swisher was clearly calling for that ball all the way.

Procol Harum
04-03-2008, 02:38 PM
I remember Tanner began playing Reichardt in CF with Williams and Kelly platooning in RF. Maybe you're correct about '71, maybe I'm thinking of '72 after Allen took over at 1B....


I checked Baseballreference.com and they squared with my memory of Reichardt in left, Johnstone in center, Kelly & Williams platooning in right as the primary starters, w/ healthy doses of Mike Hershberger and Ed Stroud sprinkled between the 3 slots. Not necessarily a particularly slow outfield--just a lousy all-around one!

voodoochile
04-03-2008, 02:57 PM
Because of one play? Not a chance. Why the hostility? My point wasn't that Swisher can't catch a ball in the alley at Progressive Field. My point was this outfield "combination" has very little range. Swisher could be an adequate CF...but with Dye's limited range in RF...the combination could be a problem.

So far we have very few nominees for White Sox starting outfields that have been slower (when Fisk was a LF,May/Johnstone/Reichardt or some outfield in that included Zeke Bonura). Point made.


Sorry, shoulda' put a smiley at the end of my comment. It's a line from The Fugitive.

I do find it interesting that people have been screaming that Swish can't play CF and today he proved them all wrong. Oh and I don't know why the error was called on Swish. It's his play if he calls for it and he was actually more under the ball than Dye was when they collided. Dye was still reaching for the ball, but Swish was actually under it.

SoxFan64
04-03-2008, 03:29 PM
I don't actually remember it, but according to my dearly departed father, an outfield of Zeke Bonura and any two other guys would pretty much be the slowest ever. :cool:

Vernam

That would be slow. But a look at Baseball Reference does not list Zeke Bonura ever having played the OF (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bonurze01.shtml). But I do remember my dear departed father say that Zeke had a great fielding percentage because if you did not hit his glove at 1B he was not going to catch it.

My guess is at least one season between 1919 and 1959 we had a terrible outfield defense. Probably one in which our pitchers yielded an abnormally hight number of 2B and 3B.

From my vantage point I think the late 60's and early 70's would qualify any time Ken Berry was not playing. Look at these OF lineups:

1968: LF Tommy Davis, CF Ken Berry, RF Buddy Bradford
1969: LF Carlos May, CF Ken Berry, RF Walt Williams
1970: LF Carlos May, CF Ken Berry, RF Walt Williams
1971: LF Rich Reichardt, CF Jay Johnstone, RF Walt Williams

Going to those games I always thought a ball hit to the gap was suppose to be a double with runners scoring from firstbase.

Jjav829
04-03-2008, 03:37 PM
We did at the end of the game. Luckily that Swisher error didn't cost us the game.

It may have been scored an error on Swisher, but that was Dye's fault.

TDog
04-03-2008, 03:49 PM
I don't remember who was in CF, however when we experimented with Fisk in LF (with Baines in RF), that had to be pretty ugly! :cool:

If you're talking about 1986, when Carlton Fisk played 31 games in left field (he played 41 games there in his career, include a few with the Red Sox), John Cangelosi was the regular centerfielder. Cangelosi had 50 stolen bases and led off for the Sox. As I recall, he had some speed.

Harold Baines was a very good rightfielder, by the way. Problems with his knees would force him to DH later, but Baines had one of the league's best throwing arms and his range was good enough that Jimmy Piersall was suggesting he move to center.

While I'm shaking my head at the selective memories around here, I might add that Walt "No-Neck" Williams had great range too, at one time holding the American League record for putouts in a game by a right fielder. He even saved an errant throw from going into the dugout once during a botched rundown play between first and second. The Sox didn't play Williams enough, but he certainly had more speed than Ken Berry, who won a gold glove in his last season with the Sox.

Edit: Speed also was a tool possessed by five-tool unfulfilled promise washout Buddy Bradford.

TomBradley72
04-03-2008, 03:57 PM
That would be slow. But a look at Baseball Reference does not list Zeke Bonura ever having played the OF (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bonurze01.shtml). But I do remember my dear departed father say that Zeke had a great fielding percentage because if you did not hit his glove at 1B he was not going to catch it.

My guess is at least one season between 1919 and 1959 we had a terrible outfield defense. Probably one in which our pitchers yielded an abnormally hight number of 2B and 3B.

From my vantage point I think the late 60's and early 70's would qualify any time Ken Berry was not playing. Look at these OF lineups:

1968: LF Tommy Davis, CF Ken Berry, RF Buddy Bradford
1969: LF Carlos May, CF Ken Berry, RF Walt Williams
1970: LF Carlos May, CF Ken Berry, RF Walt Williams
1971: LF Rich Reichardt, CF Jay Johnstone, RF Walt Williams

Going to those games I always thought a ball hit to the gap was suppose to be a double with runners scoring from firstbase.

In '76...looks like there were games when the OF was Orta/Lemon/Garr....OUCH.

Noneck
04-03-2008, 04:02 PM
In '76...looks like there were games when the OF was Orta/Lemon/Garr....OUCH.

Garr was a butcher but not slow( Dont you remember, Beep Beep?), Lemon wasn't slow and decent fielder.

TDog
04-03-2008, 04:16 PM
Garr was a butcher but not slow( Dont you remember, Beep Beep?), Lemon wasn't slow and decent fielder.

Lemon wasn't just a decent centerfielder. In 1977, he led the league with more than 500 putouts and also led the league with more than a dozen assists. And he missed a dozen games. Ralph "The Roadrunner" Garr was a speedster who had some problems, but was able to run down many of his mistakes. Calling him slow would be like calling Scott Podsednik slow. Jorge Orta wasn't slow, but he seemed to have only slightly more range in left field than he did at third base, where he started the season before Paul Richards moved him to the outfield where he wouldn't hurt the team as much.

Noneck
04-03-2008, 04:46 PM
Lemon wasn't just a decent centerfielder. In 1977, he led the league with more than 500 putouts and also led the league with more than a dozen assists. And he missed a dozen games. Ralph "The Roadrunner" Garr was a speedster who had some problems, but was able to run down many of his mistakes. Calling him slow would be like calling Scott Podsednik slow. Jorge Orta wasn't slow, but he seemed to have only slightly more range in left field than he did at third base, where he started the season before Paul Richards moved him to the outfield where he wouldn't hurt the team as much.

I think 76 was Lemons 1st full year and called him decent maybe because I remember Piersall always getting on him for not using 2 hands for making catches. But he did turn out to be a very good center fielder and Piersall realized that later.

TDog
04-03-2008, 07:28 PM
I think 76 was Lemons 1st full year and called him decent maybe because I remember Piersal always getting on him for not using 2 hands for making catches. But he did turn out to be a very good center fielder and Piersal realized that later.

If Piersall's father (or at least Karl Malden) had caught him catching a fly ball one handed, there would have been trouble.

Chet Lemon actually came up as a thirdbaseman. After the Sox sent "Struggling" Stan Bahnsen to the A's for minor-leaguer Lemon at the 1975 trade deadline, he made his defensive major league debut at third base. There was talk that Lemon could play center because of his speed and arm, but he only started there the last game of the season. He ended up finishing that game at third after Ken Henderson pinch hit for Bill Melton.

Before the 1976 season, Melton went to Anaheim for Jim Spencer, Henderson went to Atlanta for speedster Ralph Garr, oldster Paul Richards came out of retirement to replace Chuck Tanner and used five third basemen during the season, but Lemon never played another inning there.

If I don't seem to think the Sox are that bad it's because I've seen a whole lot worse.

Noneck
04-03-2008, 07:34 PM
If I don't seem to think the Sox are that bad it's because I've seen a whole lot worse.
Ditto

champagne030
04-03-2008, 08:51 PM
It may have been scored an error on Swisher, but that was Dye's fault.

Dye should get the physical error and Swisher the mental.

It's was actually Dye's ball. Swisher wasn't in any kind of position to make a throw. I understand that the CF is supposed to have control, but he also needs to know that he cannot abuse it. Swish was out of position to make a throw and he should realize to back away when the other fielder has a better play. :shrug:

Jjav829
04-03-2008, 09:38 PM
Dye should get the physical error and Swisher the mental.

It's was actually Dye's ball. Swisher wasn't in any kind of position to make a throw. I understand that the CF is supposed to have control, but he also needs to know that he cannot abuse it. Swish was out of position to make a throw and he should realize to back away when the other fielder has a better play. :shrug:

Without being able to fully see what Dye did, Hawk and DJ thought Dye gave Swisher a sign that he needed help, leading Swisher to make the play.

Either way, when the centerfielder calls for it, you have to back off, regardless of whether you think you have better position. It becomes his ball to take, and if he screws up, it's his fault. But if he calls it and you don't back off and collide, it's your fault, regardless of position.

There has to be some kind of pecking order to the outfield and the reason the centerfielder is the captain is precisely to make sure these things don't happen. There is no time for outfielders to debate who has better position when the ball is in the air. Not knowing what the other person is seeing, they both may feel they are in better position in some situations. But the centerfielder is given that power behind his call that means the other fielder must back off.

champagne030
04-03-2008, 09:49 PM
Without being able to fully see what Dye did, Hawk and DJ thought Dye gave Swisher a sign that he needed help, leading Swisher to make the play.

Either way, when the centerfielder calls for it, you have to back off, regardless of whether you think you have better position. It becomes his ball to take, and if he screws up, it's his fault. But if he calls it and you don't back off and collide, it's your fault, regardless of position.

There has to be some kind of pecking order to the outfield and the reason the centerfielder is the captain is precisely to make sure these things don't happen. There is no time for outfielders to debate who has better position when the ball is in the air. Not knowing what the other person is seeing, they both may feel they are in better position in some situations. But the centerfielder is given that power behind his call that means the other fielder must back off.

It's the responsibility of a CF to know who has better position and that's why they are the CF - they should have the ability to make those judgements.

I agree, Dye needs to back off of Swisher even if he's continues to incorrectly call for the ball. The problem is that Swisher plays so stinkin' deep because he doesn't have confidence in going back on the ball. That leads to the other fielders thinking they need to make any play they can get to in front of them.

It just sucks that our only legit fielding CF is a question mark offensively and lacks the trust of the manager.

Lip Man 1
04-03-2008, 09:53 PM
From Chet's interview with White Sox Interactive:

ML: As I understand it you were a third baseman in the As minor league system yet by 1976, your first full year with the Sox, you had been made into a center fielder. How did that all come about, and is it true that then Sox manager Paul Richards is the guy who suggested the change?

CL: "Paul may have been a part of it but Ill tell you when it first came up about me becoming
an outfielder. In late 1975 when I was with the Sox, I was at 3rd base and a ground ball was hit towards the middle. I started running and cut in front of the shortstop and actually wound up around George Orta at second base! (laughing) The very next day I was on the top step of the dugout, it was early in the day since Id always be one of the first guys to show up. Chuck Tanner, the Sox manager, came up, put his arm around my shoulder and said, I can remember this like it was yesterday, son I want you to start taking one hundred fly balls a day because if you stay an infielder youre gonna kill somebody! (laughing)"


Lip

Vernam
04-03-2008, 10:57 PM
That would be slow. But a look at Baseball Reference does not list Zeke Bonura ever having played the OF (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bonurze01.shtml). At least I prefaced it by saying I never saw him play. :redface: I'll also confess that the names Zeke Bonura, Gus Zernial, and Mike Kreevich tend to blur together for me, just like for my son when he hears me talk about guys from the 70s. :wink:

In the present tense, even Hawk called Jermaine out today for running Swisher off that ball. If Harrelson goes so far as to criticize a Sox player, I tend to think it was probably more than justified. Unrelated to the collision, DJ also commented about how JD never should have let Garko's liner over his head in that situation.

Vernam

Tragg
04-03-2008, 11:16 PM
Side question.
How did Quentin look at the plate today?

voodoochile
04-03-2008, 11:22 PM
Dye should get the physical error and Swisher the mental.

It's was actually Dye's ball. Swisher wasn't in any kind of position to make a throw. I understand that the CF is supposed to have control, but he also needs to know that he cannot abuse it. Swish was out of position to make a throw and he should realize to back away when the other fielder has a better play. :shrug:

Throw where? If the ball is caught it's too shallow for the loan baserunner on second to move to third, IMO. An average throw would have nailed him easily.

Edit: and being as the catch would have been the second out, the coach would have held the runner at second rather than risk making the third out at third.

JB98
04-03-2008, 11:22 PM
Side question.
How did Quentin look at the plate today?

Killing worms, like most guys against Westbrook's sinker. He into a DP with runners on first and second and one out in the seventh.

One of his ground balls had eyes and got up the middle for a base hit in the ninth.