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Lip Man 1
03-26-2008, 11:01 PM
ESPN.com is having a series of stories on teams that seemed headed for a "dynasty" as a warning to Red Sox fans. They listed five teams that imploded for various and sundry reasons.

Here is their take on the White Sox of the early / mid 90's:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=dynasties/whitesox/080226

Lip

Elephant
03-26-2008, 11:47 PM
It really sucked what happened then and I'm glad that I was too young to realize the magnitude of suckage. But had things not gone down the way they did, the chain of events wouldn't have put 2005 into motion. Of course we may have won it all in 94 anyway, but we'll never know, so seeing as we did get one eventually, I no longer dwell on the past.

It wouldn't have been a dynasty though. It was meant to be a one shot deal but fate didn't even give us that much.

McDowell, Bere and Alvarez were all never the same again after 94. And we all know how our farm system--especially in the area of pitching--fared at the major league level once Larry Himes' well had dried up. Do I even need to list our 91-00 draft picks? Thanks for a great decade, Schueler. :rolleyes:

Chilli Palmer
03-26-2008, 11:51 PM
And I always thought that nothing good would ever come out of Bristol,CT.

That was very well done.

Elephant
03-26-2008, 11:53 PM
I think the Red Sox will do it again this year. They're certainly not like the mid 90s Sox, or the mid 2000s Sox. They have something called a good farm system and "a lot of money."

Corlose 15
03-27-2008, 12:48 AM
The only organization that was hurt more by the strike in 1994 than the Sox was the Expos.

That 1994 team was loaded. McDowell, Fernandez, Alvarez, and Bere all pitching well, Hernandez nailing things down in the ninth.

Frank was having an unbelievable year and finally had protection behind him with Franco knocking the crap out of the ball. That team had a damn good chance to win the Series. Then the strike happened and wiped it all out. I was 11 in '94 and remember thinking they'd pick up right where they left off in 95 but they tanked. I remember hearing a bunch of the guys weren't ready to play because they didn't think the season would be played.

McDowell got traded, Bere got hurt and imploded and they never really recovered.

I will say this though, thinking back to how the organization was run then really helps me to appreciate the way KW runs things now. With Scheuler running things you never really felt the Sox wanted to win. Especially with moves like trading McDowell for crap, letting Fernandez go, letting Ventura and Ozzie go etc. Not so w/ KW, he's done a good job of locking up the talent that the Sox have.

And Elephant, considering the Sox won the division in '93 I don't think you can call it one and done. You could make a good case that if there isn't a strike in '94 and Bere stayed healthy the Sox could've been good for a long time.

Max Power
03-27-2008, 07:52 AM
I became a Sox fan largely because of those early 90's teams, so it was nice to revisit that time period with this article. We were on the verge of a title, then the strike hits and only a few years later we're an afterthought in Chicago. Thankfully 2005 took the sting off from the strike and the free fall that followed it.

Carolina Kenny
03-27-2008, 08:00 AM
Thanks for really depressing me.

RedHeadPaleHoser
03-27-2008, 08:09 AM
Well written...and it takes you back to those times, when JR's perception was as it is stated in that article. I never realized the magic Lamont held to take us to the AL West and almost to the promised land in '94.

The Milkman
03-27-2008, 08:16 AM
Probably the most objective piece ever written on the White Sox in the history of ESPN

Elephant
03-27-2008, 08:37 AM
And Elephant, considering the Sox won the division in '93 I don't think you can call it one and done. You could make a good case that if there isn't a strike in '94 and Bere stayed healthy the Sox could've been good for a long time.

A dynasty isn't two division titles. Frankly it isn't any number of division titles unless there's at least one world series in there.

doublem23
03-27-2008, 08:46 AM
I really don't think any team will ever become a true dynasty in baseball any more... The 3-teir play-off system allows for way too much wackiness and usually keeps the season's best teams out of the World Series.

Had the Indians not choked and won one of their three cracks at the Carmines, we wouldn't even need to talk about this.

rwcescato
03-27-2008, 08:48 AM
It really sucked what happened then and I'm glad that I was too young to realize the magnitude of suckage. But had things not gone down the way they did, the chain of events wouldn't have put 2005 into motion. Of course we may have won it all in 94 anyway, but we'll never know, so seeing as we did get one eventually, I no longer dwell on the past.

It wouldn't have been a dynasty though. It was meant to be a one shot deal but fate didn't even give us that much.

McDowell, Bere and Alvarez were all never the same again after 94. And we all know how our farm system--especially in the area of pitching--fared at the major league level once Larry Himes' well had dried up. Do I even need to list our 91-00 draft picks? Thanks for a great decade, Schueler. :rolleyes:


I always felt during that time that the baseball gods were punishing us for the black sox scandal. The one time and really the only time we were favored to win the WS. I doubt we will ever be favored to win it again. But we showed everyone when we swept our 05 Series.
GO SOX!!!!

TommyJohn
03-27-2008, 09:55 AM
I always felt during that time that the baseball gods were punishing us for the black sox scandal.


If there is any ONE statement that I can truly equate to "Fingernails on a
Blackboard" this one is it!!!

chisox77
03-27-2008, 10:11 AM
This was a very good article. It was very solid with facts, but also very depressing since that era started out with such promise. The feeling around the White Sox in the early 90's was one of great optimism, backed by the fact that there was a young nucleus of players who were on the verge of stardom.

At that time, there was a strong feeling that the White Sox would win it all once the team truly blossomed. The strike was one of the major factors that kept the "Good Guys" from hitting their stride as a team, and a potential force in the American League (at least).

Then the White Flag trade comes - hard to live through and accept for many south siders. It's a wonder that the White Sox managed to survive that period and eventually win a World Series. But if anything, the White Sox have proven that through the years, they are good a SURVIVING (sometimes barely surviving).

And now we are going on three seasons past the World Series championship. The challenge is to win another one. Go White Sox!!!


:cool:

oeo
03-27-2008, 10:18 AM
I think the Red Sox will do it again this year. They're certainly not like the mid 90s Sox, or the mid 2000s Sox. They have something called a good farm system and "a lot of money."

You can never predict injuries (or fatigue like the '05 Sox and '06 Tigers rotations). A farm system can only help you so much in a pennant race.

sullythered
03-27-2008, 10:32 AM
I think the Red Sox will do it again this year. They're certainly not like the mid 90s Sox, or the mid 2000s Sox. They have something called a good farm system and "a lot of money."
The 90's Sox were built on the best farm system in baseball.

Bob G
03-27-2008, 10:38 AM
I was so confident that 1994 was the year we were finally going to win the World Series I decided to buy season tickets for the first time. I still have the full sheet of unused playoff and WS tickets sent to me after the season was cancelled. What a slap in the face for all Sox fans.....

kobo
03-27-2008, 10:44 AM
There is no doubt in my mind that the Sox would have won the World Series in 94. I'm still pissed about what happened that year. For the next several years I had very little interest in baseball; I stopped going to games, didn't watch many on TV and never listened to the radio. Then the trade in 97 happened and I lost all interest in baseball until 2000.

Bob G
03-27-2008, 10:51 AM
There is no doubt in my mind that the Sox would have won the World Series in 94. I'm still pissed about what happened that year. For the next several years I had very little interest in baseball; I stopped going to games, didn't watch many on TV and never listened to the radio. Then the trade in 97 happened and I lost all interest in baseball until 2000.

Same here.. I don't think I even watched a Sox game for at least two years.

jdm2662
03-27-2008, 10:52 AM
I was so pissed off about the strike is that baseball was irrelevent to me for years. I paid no attention to it what-so-ever. In 99, I took a slight interest in it, and by 2000, I was watching it again. My last Sox game prior to 99 was Carlton Fisk's last game. The only reason I went to the game in 99 is because my friend's wedding party was there. I was much more interested in the patio party than the game... 2000 I went to several games, and it pretty much ended my boycott.

I've gotten over 94. I'm the type that puts the past behind me if I feel things change. Of course, it was much easier to do after 2005... Hell, if lived in the past, I wouldn't be a fan of any sports team. All of the teams I root for have done something to piss me off over the years. The strike, however, was by the worst.

ws05champs
03-27-2008, 11:42 AM
The strike put me on the brink and the white flag trade pushed me over. I too stopped paying attention to baseball. My wife kept the faith and continued to watch the games on TV. It took me almost to 2000 until I finally started paying attention to the Sox again.

soxfan13
03-27-2008, 11:46 AM
Was very disappointed when the strike caused the cancellation of the season but people tend to forget the Sox were only up 1 game on the Indians when the strike happened. The White Sox were only guaranteed a very tough 2 months to make the playoffs.

jackbrohamer
03-27-2008, 12:57 PM
As much as I liked the 1994 Sox team, they were by no means a lock on the title; Cleveland was only 1 game back at the time of the strike, and it was largely the same Indians team that turned into an absolute wrecking crew in 1995. I don't think the Sox could have competed with the 1996 Indians, either; but I'm "crazy" enough to think the 1997 Sox could have topped them if they did not white-flag it.

Lip Man 1
03-27-2008, 01:04 PM
True the Sox were only a game ahead but remember this was the first season of the three division plus wild card format.

Barring a total collapse (and with that pitching staff, that's hard to imagine) the odds were very good the Sox were headed to the post season in back to back years for the first time in franchise history.

Lip

FedEx227
03-27-2008, 02:24 PM
True the Sox were only a game ahead but remember this was the first season of the three division plus wild card format.

Barring a total collapse (and with that pitching staff, that's hard to imagine) the odds were very good the Sox were headed to the post season in back to back years for the first time in franchise history.

Lip

Not too mention Frank had a near record-breaking season.

So much greatness was wiped out in 1994, I did a report on it a couple of years back and looked at the stats and projections and it's insane what was potentially lost in that season.

WhiteSox5187
03-27-2008, 02:40 PM
I was eight years old in '94 and when the strike occured I remember thinking "How...how could this happen? The players actually do this for MONEY???" I was stunned and upset....I was too young to be turned off by the game but after the White Flag trade that was the first time I remember thinking "There is something horribly wrong with the front office for the White Sox."

Looking back on it now, it's quite clear to see WHY people hated Jerry Reinsdorf.