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View Full Version : Rockies send Ramon Ramirez to Royals


RockyMtnSoxFan
03-26-2008, 03:12 PM
Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/03/26/rockies.royals.ap/index.html)

Not really a big deal as far as the impact on the division, but it makes me wonder why the Sox seem to always miss out on these type of trades. Ramirez was very good two years ago, and has had an awesome spring. He would be a huge improvement over MacDougal or the equivalent.

Another thing that I've seen some teams like the Royals and Rockies do when they're not expected to be the top team in the division is pick up lots of "project" veterans in the offseason. They spend the equivalent of pocket change for some guys that may or may not be washed up. If the guys suck in ST, they are offered minor league contracts, and if they accept then there is a potential injury replacement later in the year. Also, it can give a team trade options at the deadline. Maybe the guy is a veteran who is replacement level at best, but at the trading deadline there are always teams that are contending in their divisions that have injuries. They know their injured players aren't gone forever, so they don't want to trade for a premium player, but they're willing to give up some prospects to fill the hole temporarily. With the depleted farm system the Sox have now, this could be a good strategy.

Except that the Sox prefer to avoid playing prospects or developing talent whenever possible.

oeo
03-26-2008, 04:18 PM
Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/03/26/rockies.royals.ap/index.html)

Not really a big deal as far as the impact on the division, but it makes me wonder why the Sox seem to always miss out on these type of trades. Ramirez was very good two years ago, and has had an awesome spring. He would be a huge improvement over MacDougal or the equivalent.

Since MacDougal was mentioned, I just wanted to point out that he has been quietly having a good spring after a rough start. He hasn't given up an ER since March 3.

jabrch
03-26-2008, 05:17 PM
it makes me wonder why the Sox seem to always miss out on these type of trades.


I'm not sure what kind of trades you are talking about....but I don't bemoan the loss of Ramon Ramirez for one minute.

RockyMtnSoxFan
03-26-2008, 05:58 PM
I'm talking about buying low on veterans whose value could rise at the trade deadline. The Sox do sign plenty of washed up or questionable veterans, but they tend to view them as core pieces when they do. Sometimes it works (Dye in '05), sometimes it doesn't (Erstad in '07). But in a year like 2008, when the Sox will need a few small miracles to compete, they don't consider it worthwhile to make some bargain basement deals to add injury protection and/or trade material when the season is in the tank in July.

I just think that too much depth can be a good thing, and there are opportunities to add depth on the cheap that the Sox don't pursue.

manders_01
03-26-2008, 09:36 PM
Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/03/26/rockies.royals.ap/index.html)

Not really a big deal as far as the impact on the division, but it makes me wonder why the Sox seem to always miss out on these type of trades. Ramirez was very good two years ago, and has had an awesome spring. He would be a huge improvement over MacDougal or the equivalent.

Another thing that I've seen some teams like the Royals and Rockies do when they're not expected to be the top team in the division is pick up lots of "project" veterans in the offseason. They spend the equivalent of pocket change for some guys that may or may not be washed up. If the guys suck in ST, they are offered minor league contracts, and if they accept then there is a potential injury replacement later in the year. Also, it can give a team trade options at the deadline. Maybe the guy is a veteran who is replacement level at best, but at the trading deadline there are always teams that are contending in their divisions that have injuries. They know their injured players aren't gone forever, so they don't want to trade for a premium player, but they're willing to give up some prospects to fill the hole temporarily. With the depleted farm system the Sox have now, this could be a good strategy.

Except that the Sox prefer to avoid playing prospects or developing talent whenever possible.

Herges pops to mind immediately. Supposed to be washed up and has been pretty solid for the Rox.

I'd love to see the Sox develop their farm system as the Rockies have. I've never realized how much the Sox go for veterans at what sometimes seems like any cost. I would think that if the Sox had spent more energy developing young talent, the youngins that joined the team last year wouldn't have seemed so out of place (IMO).

jabrch
03-26-2008, 11:02 PM
I'd love to see the Sox develop their farm system as the Rockies have.


2006 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/2006.shtml)76-86 (.469)2005 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/2005.shtml)67-95 (.414)2004 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/2004.shtml)68-94 (.420)2003 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/2003.shtml)74-88 (.457)2002 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/2002.shtml)73-89 (.451)2001 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/2001.shtml)73-89 (.451)2000 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/2000.shtml)82-80 (.506)1999 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/1999.shtml)72-90 (.444)1998 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/1998.shtml)77-85 (.475)


My gosh..how ever did they build up such a farm system?

THEY FREAKING SUCKED FOR 9 YEARS.

We suck one year - people are throwing themselves out of windows in a race to piss their pants first and loudest. Can you only imagine 9 straight years of this?

manders_01
03-27-2008, 12:20 AM
2006 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/2006.shtml)76-86 (.469)2005 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/2005.shtml)67-95 (.414)2004 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/2004.shtml)68-94 (.420)2003 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/2003.shtml)74-88 (.457)2002 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/2002.shtml)73-89 (.451)2001 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/2001.shtml)73-89 (.451)2000 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/2000.shtml)82-80 (.506)1999 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/1999.shtml)72-90 (.444)1998 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/COL/1998.shtml)77-85 (.475)


My gosh..how ever did they build up such a farm system?

THEY FREAKING SUCKED FOR 9 YEARS.

We suck one year - people are throwing themselves out of windows in a race to piss their pants first and loudest. Can you only imagine 9 straight years of this?

Ummm - wow - overreact much? :?:

First of all, most of their roster consists of guys that have been developed from within that have only been brought up within the last 2-3 years. This roster will be around for a while, they've improved since being called up and I'm guessing they will probably continue to improve.

Second, I'd rather have the Sox suck for a few years and have an amazing core of talent to bring on and have on for years to come. Yeah, 2005 was great and I wouldn't wish that away for all the tea in China. But having more than one outstanding year - stringing years of postseason play together - sounds better to me.

And third, it's my God given right as true fan of the Sox to bitch about them whenever I please! :geezer:

Tragg
03-27-2008, 12:43 AM
You'll go crazy lamenting dip slip trades like this. Williams is actually avoiding one - this is the kind of garb they are trying to give him for Crede.
We have an inventory of mediocre middle relievers to dump in July, when I agree, their price is at their highest. I hope we do it if it makes sense then.

michned
03-27-2008, 01:10 AM
A couple years ago in the Spring the Sox picked up a "washed up" Matt Thornton for a washed up Joe Borchard.

jabrch
03-27-2008, 01:29 AM
Second, I'd rather have the Sox suck for a few years and have an amazing core of talent to bring on and have on for years to come.

If we play sub .500 ball for 8 of 9 years, then get back to me.

Our fanbase has no patience for that sort of rebuilding and Williams and Reinsdorf know it.

manders_01
03-27-2008, 01:46 AM
If we play sub .500 ball for 8 of 9 years, then get back to me.

It isn't just about having a winning season. Getting into the playoffs on a yearly basis - let's get that done!

Our fanbase has no patience for that sort of rebuilding and Williams and Reinsdorf know it.

Yes they do. There may be wailing and gnashing of teeth but they would make it through. Oh, and of course, plenty of :gulp: