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View Full Version : Forbes Magazine Calls USCF "a Dump"


Viva Medias B's
03-26-2008, 11:55 AM
A special issue of Forbes magazine currently on newsstands devotes the entire issue to the business of baseball. It's probably a very good snapshot of that aspect of the game, among other things. However, we as Sox fans are bound to have issues with some things for sure.

In one section of the magazine that contains minireviews of ballparks, it calls our ballpark "a dump" compared to the Shrine. I should point out the minireview also says we win more and referres to our Polish sausages as "divine."

In another section of the magazine where each franchise's value is broken down, Forbes said that families avoided USCF because a "raucous crowd" kept them away. It also says that the Sox corrected this by adding security, stopping sales of hard liquor, and making the restrooms "more respectable." Huh? Meanwhile, the Cubs are referred to as a "trophy franchise" per its attendance. Who the hell wrote this, that certain someone in the Sun-Times?

The magazine also names KW as the third-worst GM in MLB.

Dick Allen
03-26-2008, 11:57 AM
A special issue of Forbes magazine currently on newsstands devotes the entire issue to the business of baseball. It's probably a very good snapshot of that aspect of the game, among other things. However, we as Sox fans are bound to have issues with some things for sure.

In one section of the magazine that contains minireviews of ballparks, it calls our ballpark "a dump" compared to the Shrine. I should point out the minireview also says we win more and referres to our Polish sausages as "divine."

In another section of the magazine where each franchise's value is broken down, Forbes said that families avoided USCF because a "raucous crowd" kept them away. It also says that the Sox corrected this by adding security, stopping sales of hard liquor, and making the restrooms "more respectable." Huh? Meanwhile, the Cubs are referred to as a "trophy franchise" per its attendance. Who the hell wrote this, that certain someone in the Sun-Times?

The magazine also names KW as the third-worst GM in MLB.Whoever wrote this about the park must have plagerized an article from the 80's. What a bunch of garbage.

thomas35forever
03-26-2008, 12:00 PM
Who cares what Forbes thinks? They're not a sports magazine, so what do they know about ballparks?

rdivaldi
03-26-2008, 12:01 PM
A dump? You can say a lot of things about what you may or may not like about the Cell, but for the life of me I can't think of one reason to call it a "dump".

rdivaldi
03-26-2008, 12:04 PM
Who cares what Forbes thinks?

If I owned a baseball team and a well read magazine called my stadium a "dump" I'd be extremely concerned. I assume that many people who read Forbes are likely to be business travelers to Chicago and the last thing you need is them avoiding your business because of something they read.

areilly
03-26-2008, 12:08 PM
Whoever wrote this about the park must have plagerized an article from the 80's. What a bunch of garbage.

Indeed. I wonder if they accidentally used a profile of 1977 Comiskey instead of 2007 USCF.

Fenway
03-26-2008, 12:08 PM
If they think USCF is a dump

Try
http://images.scripting.com/archiveScriptingCom/2004/07/26/shea.jpg

salty99
03-26-2008, 12:11 PM
yeah I don't think anyone is going to miss Shea

soxfan21
03-26-2008, 12:12 PM
"Raucous crowd".... Interesting.

Dan Mega
03-26-2008, 12:18 PM
I'm guessing the article was written by Carol Slezak.

skottyj242
03-26-2008, 12:19 PM
"Raucous crowd".... Interesting.

Pdimas goes to a lot of games and contributes to that atmosphere.

Dan Mega
03-26-2008, 12:21 PM
Pdimas goes to a lot of games and contributes to that atmosphere.

Actually they were probably being belittled by some guy in a Gload jersey.

pdimas
03-26-2008, 12:29 PM
Actually they were probably being belittled by some guy in a Gload jersey.

or puking in his beer then going to get another one...*cough*skottyj*cough*

pdimas
03-26-2008, 12:33 PM
As far as stopping hard liquor sales are concerned I guess vodka isn't considered hard liquor anymore....

This kind of **** annoys me. I brought a few out of state visitors to games the past few years and every one of them (without any prodding by me) loved U.S. Cellular and said that they enjoyed it way more than Wrigley. They loved the choice of foods, activities, atmosphere and even commented on the bathrooms being better. On top of that they really did not like Wrigley. A few were relatives from Texas and the others were coworkers from W. Virginia and Arizona.

PatK
03-26-2008, 12:34 PM
Wow, the author must have never been to the park.

Quite honestly, many out-of-towners I know always want to to go Wrigley because of how "awesome" and "legendary" it is. Almost always, they are amazed at what a dump it is, how frat-boyish it is, and somewhat family unfriendly.

Many of them, and other out-of-towners I know, have done nothing but praise The Cell for how nice it is, how great it is for kids, and generally wonder why people would rather go to Wrigley other than for nostalgia.

ws05champs
03-26-2008, 12:36 PM
I'll start caring what Forbes has to say about anything related to baseball about the same time I start getting my business information from Sports Illustrated.

Chilli Palmer
03-26-2008, 12:46 PM
:threadsucks

skottyj242
03-26-2008, 12:52 PM
What are you talking about Paco?

doogiec
03-26-2008, 12:53 PM
This is an exact description of Comiskey Park when Reinsdorf bought the team. The ball park was a dump and the crowds (as small as they were) were known for drinking and fighting. The first things he did were to eliminate hard liquor sales, stop the fighting with security, and fix some of the bathrooms. This had to be plagarized. There is no way anyone who attended a game in the last 18 years could get this impression.

skottyj242
03-26-2008, 12:54 PM
:threadsucks

The thread doesn't suck. It's the article that the thread is based on that sucks.

Hitmen77
03-26-2008, 12:57 PM
A special issue of Forbes magazine currently on newsstands devotes the entire issue to the business of baseball. It's probably a very good snapshot of that aspect of the game, among other things. However, we as Sox fans are bound to have issues with some things for sure.

In one section of the magazine that contains minireviews of ballparks, it calls our ballpark "a dump" compared to the Shrine. I should point out the minireview also says we win more and referres to our Polish sausages as "divine."

In another section of the magazine where each franchise's value is broken down, Forbes said that families avoided USCF because a "raucous crowd" kept them away. It also says that the Sox corrected this by adding security, stopping sales of hard liquor, and making the restrooms "more respectable." Huh? Meanwhile, the Cubs are referred to as a "trophy franchise" per its attendance. Who the hell wrote this, that certain someone in the Sun-Times?

The magazine also names KW as the third-worst GM in MLB.

Wow - it sounds to me like they're taking all the bad truths about Wrigley and applying them to the Cell. A dump with too many drunks and dirty bathrooms? Are you serious?

Oh, and how ironic that they choose to use the term "trophy" franchise to describe the Cubs. Last I checked, the only MLB trophy that is worth a **** can be found on display in front of the gift shop at the Cell.

goon
03-26-2008, 01:05 PM
"Millionaire Teve Torbes was a maverick candidate who had Washington insiders running scared. He also had an undeniable animal magnetism that drove the ladies crazy. It was clear Teve Torbes had it goin' on."

infohawk
03-26-2008, 01:10 PM
It will be interesting to see if Scott Reifert posts something about the Forbes article on his blog. My first thought was that the author couldn't have possibly been to the park. My second thought was that, myself being in a profession where I have to deal with journalists on occasion, journalists often get even basic facts of a story wrong. Not all journalists, but some. If you didn't have the "insider knowledge" on a particular story, you would have no way of spotting certain quite significant errors. My third thought was how frustratingly long it takes to change an established perception even though it is completely removed from the truth. In this case, the many, many changes that have happened at U.S. Cellular. Even so, "dump" is a very harsh word. Even prior to the renovations and additions of family-friendly activities, I wouldn't have ever referred to the park as a "dump." I can understand terms like "bland," "steep," "plain" and even "boring" when referring to the pre-renovation park, but "dump?" Get real!

Chilli Palmer
03-26-2008, 02:00 PM
The thread doesn't suck. It's the article that the thread is based on that sucks.

I concur.

jenn2080
03-26-2008, 02:11 PM
or puking in his beer then going to get another one...*cough*skottyj*cough*


Good god these stories need to be put to rest already.

bryPt
03-26-2008, 02:20 PM
You have to look at the source people, Look at their poll asking who is the best clutch hitter in baseball:

Barry Bonds
Darin Erstad
Ryan Howard
Derek Jeter
Jason Kendall
David Ortiz
Albert Pujols
Manny Ramirez
Jose Vidro

Bond's isn't playing, Darin Erstad, Seriously? Didn't Kendall bat under .200 last year?

Fenway
03-26-2008, 02:33 PM
It appears to be a special issue that Forbes did on MLB.

Somebody here had an advance copy and yup their exact words were that US Cellular Field is a dump compared to Wrigley :scratch: but they like the polish sausuage

moochpuppy
03-26-2008, 02:39 PM
I think some columnist at Forbes does not have an internal compass and therefore mixed up North and South. :upsidehead:

TDog
03-26-2008, 02:41 PM
This is an exact description of Comiskey Park when Reinsdorf bought the team. The ball park was a dump and the crowds (as small as they were) were known for drinking and fighting. The first things he did were to eliminate hard liquor sales, stop the fighting with security, and fix some of the bathrooms. This had to be plagarized. There is no way anyone who attended a game in the last 18 years could get this impression.

Exactly. Anyone who walks into the new park doesn't get the impression of "dump." It smells like a great restaurant. When I walk into a restaurant that smells like the Cell, I am impressed. It was the above perception that Jerry Reinsdorf noted he wanted to change that brought him sharp criticism at the outset. Call the new park a dump and you lose credibility from those who know the truth and acclaim from people who want to marginalize the White Sox.

The Cubs may be a "trophy franchise," but they don't have cleaner restrooms.

C-Dawg
03-26-2008, 02:52 PM
In another section of the magazine where each franchise's value is broken down, Forbes said that families avoided USCF because a "raucous crowd" kept them away.

I always notice the stark absence of families at Wrigley simply because they are everywhere at USCF. Whether by accident or design, JR and company have geared the ballpark experience to be VERY family-friendly, something that seems to be lacking entirely at the other place.

Cuck the Fubs
03-26-2008, 02:56 PM
:angry::angry::angry::angry:

Stuff like this really fires me up

:angry::angry::angry::angry:

Did this fool even go into the 2 parks?!?!?!?!?!?:mad:

kittle42
03-26-2008, 03:05 PM
Bond's isn't playing

Now that's just ****ing terrible.

hi im skot
03-26-2008, 03:07 PM
Now that's just ****ing terrible.

:rolling:

You never let us down.

PalehosePlanet
03-26-2008, 03:07 PM
This is an exact description of Comiskey Park when Reinsdorf bought the team. The ball park was a dump and the crowds (as small as they were) were known for drinking and fighting. The first things he did were to eliminate hard liquor sales, stop the fighting with security, and fix some of the bathrooms. This had to be plagarized. There is no way anyone who attended a game in the last 18 years could get this impression.

Absolutely right. I know I've read that exact same description somewhere, I just can't remember where.

It's true, the bathrooms at old Comiskey did need fixing, but the bathrooms at USCF have not changed from day one. Have they?

I just wish I could remember where I read that....

UofCSoxFan
03-26-2008, 03:31 PM
I wouldn't get too upset about the Forbes GM ranking. Last year Kevin Mchale from the freaking Timberwolves was rated as the best GM. This is the same guy that has ruined a franchise despite having the best player in the NBA for 4 or 5 years and is about as incompetant as it gets. The formula they use is winning percentage compared to predecessor's last three years and payroll. So cheap GMs (which Kenny certainly is not) and GMs that inherited crap and made it slightly better, are considered better than people that made good teams great (like Kenny did) or GMs that are willing to expand payroll in an attempt to win at the expense of profitability.

The rankings last year were universally lambasted by the national meida.

asg2003ws2005
03-26-2008, 03:53 PM
since when did we get foot long polish sausages?

RedHeadPaleHoser
03-26-2008, 03:57 PM
Whether by accident or design, JR and company have geared the ballpark experience to be VERY family-friendly, something that seems to be lacking entirely at the other place.

The game of baseball is a by product at Wrigley; families are not the target demographic either. No father of two or three in his right mind would put up with the abrasiveness of other "fans", cramped conditions, and filth when you take a child into a restroom at Wrigley. Frat boys pissing in a sink is not condusive to cleanliness.

That happens at the Cell though - during Cub interleague series. I've seen it 1st hand. **** Forbes - their buddies at Bear Stearns are no longer news so they turn their attention to baseball. Kinda like Gene Simmons being a marriage counselor - just don't fit.

AZChiSoxFan
03-26-2008, 04:10 PM
Now that's just ****ing terrible.

AWESOME!!!

itsnotrequired
03-26-2008, 04:14 PM
since when did we get foot long polish sausages?

They have them in the Club level. I got one once with jenn2080's brother whilst skottyj242 was heaving downstairs.

DumpJerry
03-26-2008, 06:53 PM
:woo-woo
It's always exciting when the articles I write are picked up for publication.

DumpJerry
03-26-2008, 06:54 PM
They have them in the Club level. I got one once with jenn2080's brother whilst skottyj242 was heaving downstairs.
It's posts like these that give credibility to the allegations......

chisox77
03-26-2008, 07:02 PM
Well, then we have the nicest "dump" ballpark in the majors.


:cool:

MarySwiss
03-26-2008, 07:06 PM
I think they accidentally dropped off the last two words. They meant to call it a "Dump Jerry hangout." :smile:

Frontman
03-26-2008, 07:20 PM
I find it funny that this Forbes writer says families avoid USCF due to raucious behavior.

Because throwing trash onto the field, swearing, throwing back home runs, and being drunk and "bleacher bums" is classy.

:rolleyes:

MarySwiss
03-26-2008, 07:26 PM
I find it funny that this Forbes writer says families avoid USCF due to raucious behavior.

Because throwing trash onto the field, swearing, throwing back home runs, and being drunk and "bleacher bums" is classy.

:rolleyes:

There you go being reasonable again! :smile:

Frontman
03-26-2008, 07:29 PM
There you go being reasonable again! :smile:

Reasonable and being a baseball fan shouldn't be in the same conversation. How can we pine for the return of Aaron Rowand if we're being reasonable?

MERCY!

:o:

sullythered
03-26-2008, 08:06 PM
Whatever. I guess my favorite place on God's green earth is a dump. Good for Forbes.:rolleyes:

Railsplitter
03-26-2008, 08:14 PM
Is this from an April Fool's Day issue?

palehosepub
03-26-2008, 08:22 PM
I think some columnist at Forbes does not have an internal compass and therefore mixed up North and South. :upsidehead:
Forbes is a joke.

SoxNation05
03-26-2008, 08:32 PM
I think some columnist at Forbes does not have an internal compass and therefore mixed up North and South. :upsidehead:

Maybe that certain columnist is...... Nevermind.

chisoxfanatic
03-26-2008, 10:38 PM
You definitely can't take anything a magazine says seriously when they don't include the 1985 Bears or 1995-1996 Bulls on the list of greatest sports teams assembled:

http://www.forbes.com/sportsbusiness/2008/01/29/greatest-sports-teams-biz-sports-champions08-cx_tvr_0129greatestteams_slide.html

Lip Man 1
03-26-2008, 10:43 PM
You notice how the only team from 'back in the day' listed was the 41 Yankees?

That tells me the folks doing the choosing probably aren't past the age of 30.

To say that practically every one of the "greatest" teams ever, played in the last 35 years or so is plain nuts.

Lip

chisoxfanatic
03-26-2008, 10:48 PM
You notice how the only team from 'back in the day' listed was the 41 Yankees?

That tells me the folks doing the choosing probably aren't past the age of 30.

To say that practically every one of the "greatest" teams ever, played in the last 35 years or so is plain nuts.

Lip

It is definitely infiltrated by East Coast media bias as well. Did you notice how many Boston or New York teams made that list? About HALF of them!!!

itsnotrequired
03-26-2008, 11:32 PM
It is definitely infiltrated by East Coast media bias as well. Did you notice how many Boston or New York teams made that list? About HALF of them!!!

I hate them so much! Nothing good has ever come out of East Coast!

:rolleyes:

The list sucks anyway, as Lip pointed out.

sullythered
03-26-2008, 11:43 PM
I hate them so much! Nothing good has ever come out of East Coast!

:rolleyes:

The list sucks anyway, as Lip pointed out.
Huh? I think the point is not that plenty of good teams haven't come from the east coast, but that the media has a clear bias towards them. It isn't paranoia. It is a matter of many media outlets being based out east, and it's really, really annoying.

rdivaldi
03-27-2008, 01:37 AM
I find it funny that this Forbes writer says families avoid USCF due to raucious behavior.

Because throwing trash onto the field, swearing, throwing back home runs, and being drunk and "bleacher bums" is classy.

:rolleyes:

"Funny" is not the word I would use. More like "insulting" or "irresponsible".

Gregory Pratt
03-27-2008, 02:00 AM
I find it funny that this Forbes writer says families avoid USCF due to raucious behavior.

Because throwing trash onto the field, swearing, throwing back home runs, and being drunk and "bleacher bums" is classy.

:rolleyes:

I'm a Sox fan, and I will put myself on the record as critical of Forbes' piece, but are you kidding with this response?

1. Sox fans don't curse?
2. Sox fans don't drink?
3. Sox fans have never thrown things onto the field or done something classless -- like, say, attack a manager or Disco Demolition?

"Baseball partisanship" intensely bothers me because it is inherently irrational. All teams have embarrassing moments and that's all they are, for the most part: moments. Of course, I believe Wrigley Field is a great ballpark and a treasure just as much as I enjoy going to Sox park, but this "our fans are classy and theirs -- they're drunks, and they curse, and they throw things onto the field!" has got to be challenged intellectually somewhere and at the ballpark, with a drunk spouting off, probably isn't the place to do it. [Not that I am referring to you as a drunk, but speaking in general about a situation where such a conversation would not be desirable whereas a baseball board is the appropriate setting.]

cards press box
03-27-2008, 06:50 AM
Disco demolition was almost thirty years ago. I think it's safe to say that a lot has subsequently changed at Sox park.

I went to the ballpark a fair amount in the 1970's. Other posters here that are old enough to remember those days can vouch for the following: the ballpark experience at USCF today is way different these days. The Sox have made a consistent effort to make the park more family friendly and it is.

Once upon a time, the Cubs only played day games and the crowd at Wrigley were primarily little kids and little old ladies. Since 1984, the drinking and rowdiness previously confined to the bleachers has essentially spread to the rest of the park, particularly in night games.

It appears that the Forbes writer is just basing his opinion upon sterotypes that may be twenty or thirty years out of date. That is great journalism.

Frontman
03-27-2008, 07:34 AM
I'm a Sox fan, and I will put myself on the record as critical of Forbes' piece, but are you kidding with this response?

1. Sox fans don't curse?
2. Sox fans don't drink?
3. Sox fans have never thrown things onto the field or done something classless -- like, say, attack a manager or Disco Demolition?

"Baseball partisanship" intensely bothers me because it is inherently irrational. All teams have embarrassing moments and that's all they are, for the most part: moments. Of course, I believe Wrigley Field is a great ballpark and a treasure just as much as I enjoy going to Sox park, but this "our fans are classy and theirs -- they're drunks, and they curse, and they throw things onto the field!" has got to be challenged intellectually somewhere and at the ballpark, with a drunk spouting off, probably isn't the place to do it. [Not that I am referring to you as a drunk, but speaking in general about a situation where such a conversation would not be desirable whereas a baseball board is the appropriate setting.]

As already pointed out, Disco Demolition was 30 years ago. Give the Cubs fans a few bad outings?

Five will get you ten you'll see stuff thrown this season. I can lay down good money that we won't see records blown up in the outfield leading to a riot at USCF this season.

And Wrigley Field might be historic, but historically old and falling apart, and could take years to "rehab" to make it suitable. It's also not the place to take a family. A working family can't afford to pay the Cubs their inflated rates through their scalp....erm, "ticket broker."

So my generalizations are bad about Wrigley and the Wrigley Field fans, but this Forbes writer can write without actually attending USCF and use broad generalizations?

Sure. Go fig.

white sox bill
03-27-2008, 08:25 AM
This is what happens when a financial magazine turns to sports. Once again, like my broker, Forbes is wrong. Remember they recommended buying shares in Eastern Airlines back in the day.

DumpJerry
03-27-2008, 08:30 AM
3. Sox fans have never thrown things onto the field or done something classless -- like, say, attack a manager or Disco Demolition?
When did Sox fans attack a manager?

itsnotrequired
03-27-2008, 08:43 AM
It is a matter of many media outlets being based out east, and it's really, really annoying.

At least it isn't a matter of many more teams being on the east coast when compared to the rest of the country.:bitchslap:

As has already been said, the list sucks as there are no "greatest teams" before the 1970s, save the '41 Yankees. But had they included teams from decades before the 1970s, most of them would be east coast teams as well simply because there were very few teams out west. Go back far enough and their were NO teams out west.

mccoydp
03-27-2008, 12:04 PM
The negativity and bias against the Sox continues to amaze me; this article is no exception. I only went to Sox home games from 1992-1993, and the ballpark was nowhere close to being a dump. How is Forbes' view even justifiable? I'm sure U.S. Cellular Field is even better now than after it opened due to the improvements and additions. Heck, I liked it when it was new, even if it was drab. From what you all say on the forums, the neighborhood is much nicer as well (I was at IIT).
I went to a couple of Cubs games as well during my year in Chicago, and thought then, as I do now, that it was a nasty dump.

areilly
03-27-2008, 12:04 PM
When did Sox fans attack a manager?

Although I'm fairly certain he meant "Royals first base coach Tom Gamboa," it's not unlikely more than a few fans wanted to attack Bevington at least once.

RedHeadPaleHoser
03-27-2008, 12:23 PM
Although I'm fairly certain he meant "Royals first base coach Tom Gamboa," it's not unlikely more than a few fans wanted to attack Bevington at least once.

For what? Bevington was a god - calling in an invisible relief pitcher is a mark of pure genius.

Palehose Pete
03-27-2008, 02:07 PM
If I owned a baseball team and a well read magazine called my stadium a "dump" I'd be extremely concerned. I assume that many people who read Forbes are likely to be business travelers to Chicago and the last thing you need is them avoiding your business because of something they read.

Yeah, and if I were JR, I'd be so pissed-off right now that I would call up Forbes and tear them a new one for completely missing the boat.

Wiggley may have sentimental value to some out there, but the Cell's modern amenities (flushing toilets! urinals! parking! lighted score board! unobstructed views!) make going to Wiggley akin to camping out versus a night at a Hilton. Anyone who has the gifts of sight and smell should be aware of that.

This article got it wrong, plain and simple.

Gregory Pratt
03-27-2008, 06:38 PM
I concede: Sox fans do not

1. drink
2. cuss
3. do anything inappropriate at the ballpark -- at least, not within the last five days. Disco Demolition? 30 years ago. William Ligue? Four and a half years ago. The Laz Diaz incident? Four years ago. Shooting at your own ballpark -- we talk about Cub fans throwing trash after AJ's bomb, but I don't remember Cub fans shooting their own ballpark, but that was almost twenty years ago. An almost completely empty ballpark? Just three years ago. A ballpark, for all this talk about Wrigley being a dump, that might have been the absolute ugliest in the game for thirteen years or so.

Give me a break -- I can't believe the partisan hackery in baseball sometimes. There are drunks, idiots, trashy people at every stadium. Most of the people who go to baseball games are just normal people who enjoy the game of baseball to varying degrees. But Cub fans are racists and they, and they alone (or they primarily), disgrace the city of Chicago and the game of baseball. Right?

Frontman
03-27-2008, 06:41 PM
But Cub fans are racists and they, and they alone (or they primarily), disgrace the city of Chicago and the game of baseball. Right?

When you use information gained from Dusty Baker to support your point, you loose credibility.

hi im skot
03-27-2008, 06:42 PM
When you use information gained from Dusty Baker to support your point, you loose credibility.

You lose it, too.

Gregory Pratt
03-27-2008, 06:45 PM
Actually, Dusty Baker is a damn good manager.

Frontman
03-27-2008, 06:45 PM
You lose it, too.

"You know, I thought that post made no dagum sense. That didn't make any sense at all. MERCY!"

:hawk

hi im skot
03-27-2008, 07:25 PM
"You know, I thought that post made no dagum sense. That didn't make any sense at all. MERCY!"

:hawk

:redneck

Lip Man 1
03-27-2008, 07:36 PM
Greg says:

Actually, Dusty Baker is a damn good manager.

Let's see...

*Had a 3-2 lead in the 2002 World Series, playing at home, and lost it.

*Had a 3-1 lead in the 2003 NLCS, playing the last two games at home, and lost.

*Is considered at least partially responsible for ruining pitchers.

*Partially blamed the broadcasters for his team's collapse the last week in 2004 which cost them the wild card.

Yep sounds like a great manager to me!

Lip

Frontman
03-27-2008, 07:48 PM
Greg says:

Actually, Dusty Baker is a damn good manager.

Let's see...

*Had a 3-2 lead in the 2002 World Series, playing at home, and lost it.

*Had a 3-1 lead in the 2003 NLCS, playing the last two games at home, and lost.

*Is considered at least partially responsible for ruining pitchers.

*Partially blamed the broadcasters for his team's collapse the last week in 2004 which cost them the wild card.

Yep sounds like a great manager to me!

Lip


You forgot how those issues aren't his fault. It's the racist fans who send letters and hate him who is at fault for his teams lack of success.

Railsplitter
03-27-2008, 07:58 PM
If the Cell is a dump, is Wrigley a dive?

TDog
03-27-2008, 08:07 PM
When did Sox fans attack a manager?

They booed Jerry Manuel.

areilly
03-27-2008, 08:10 PM
You forgot how those issues aren't his fault. It's the racist fans who send letters and hate him who is at fault for his teams lack of success.

I won't say LaTroy Hawkins and Jacque Jones were great during their time on the North Side, but I don't think the chants and letters of n-word this and n-word that made it any more enjoyable to be a Cub.

Lip Man 1
03-27-2008, 08:32 PM
"They booed Jerry Manuel."

And rightly so in my opinion.

Lip

TommyJohn
03-27-2008, 10:40 PM
I concede: Sox fans do not

1. drink
2. cuss
3. do anything inappropriate at the ballpark -- at least, not within the last five days. Disco Demolition? 30 years ago. William Ligue? Four and a half years ago. The Laz Diaz incident? Four years ago. Shooting at your own ballpark -- we talk about Cub fans throwing trash after AJ's bomb, but I don't remember Cub fans shooting their own ballpark, but that was almost twenty years ago. An almost completely empty ballpark? Just three years ago. A ballpark, for all this talk about Wrigley being a dump, that might have been the absolute ugliest in the game for thirteen years or so.

Give me a break -- I can't believe the partisan hackery in baseball sometimes. There are drunks, idiots, trashy people at every stadium. Most of the people who go to baseball games are just normal people who enjoy the game of baseball to varying degrees. But Cub fans are racists and they, and they alone (or they primarily), disgrace the city of Chicago and the game of baseball. Right?

You are completely missing the point. It is always Cub fans who are
portrayed as lovable and White Sox fans who are portrayed as
uncivilized beasts. No one argues that the Sox don't have bad fans,
we're just sick and tired of the mindless stereotypes that are applied.

And can you please tell me when someone shot at the ballpark? Are
you referring to that canard about how there were bullet holes in the
park before it opened? Got any proof of that? And sorry, a friend of a
friend of a friend of a friend who knew a rookie beat cop whose partner's
wife's son's cousin's detective father-in-law saw the holes does not cut it.
And can you then offer proof that those bullets were fired by a Sox fan?
You are reaching, sir.

And thank you for taunting with all the stuff that has gone on since 1979.
Do we need review all the crap that has gone on at Wrigley as well? If
not what is the point, other than to rile people up? And as long as you
are talking about the past, are you aware of what the lovable Bleacher
Bums were doing at Wrigley in 1969? Hurling trash, running out on the
field, throwing smoke and cherry bombs at Lou Brock, who was a special
target of their contempt. Don't ever expect to hear any of that from
Murph.

Frontman
03-27-2008, 11:07 PM
You are completely missing the point. It is always Cub fans who are
portrayed as lovable and White Sox fans who are portrayed as
uncivilized beasts. No one argues that the Sox don't have bad fans,
we're just sick and tired of the mindless stereotypes that are applied.

And can you please tell me when someone shot at the ballpark? Are
you referring to that canard about how there were bullet holes in the
park before it opened? Got any proof of that? And sorry, a friend of a
friend of a friend of a friend who knew a rookie beat cop whose partner's
wife's son's cousin's detective father-in-law saw the holes does not cut it.
And can you then offer proof that those bullets were fired by a Sox fan?
You are reaching, sir.

And thank you for taunting with all the stuff that has gone on since 1979.
Do we need review all the crap that has gone on at Wrigley as well? If
not what is the point, other than to rile people up? And as long as you
are talking about the past, are you aware of what the lovable Bleacher
Bums were doing at Wrigley in 1969? Hurling trash, running out on the
field, throwing smoke and cherry bombs at Lou Brock, who was a special
target of their contempt. Don't ever expect to hear any of that from
Murph.

You know what ol' Hair Lip would say in response to that, right?

"He's just an angry Sox fan who hates Ron Santo." (then plays an annoying sound drop.)

:wink:

itsnotrequired
03-27-2008, 11:08 PM
No one argues that the Sox don't have bad fans,
we're just sick and tired of the mindless stereotypes that are applied.

Damn near all of "What's The Score?" is nothing but mindless stereotypes.

Frontman
03-27-2008, 11:16 PM
I won't say LaTroy Hawkins and Jacque Jones were great during their time on the North Side, but I don't think the chants and letters of n-word this and n-word that made it any more enjoyable to be a Cub.

Never said it would be enjoyable. But as soon as Dusty ever runs into trouble as a manager its always a racist fan's fault, not his.

Mohoney
03-28-2008, 03:21 AM
I'll start caring what Forbes has to say about anything related to baseball about the same time I start getting my business information from Sports Illustrated.

Or my sports information from Sports Illustrated, for that matter. Or my business information from Forbes, for that matter.

The print media in this country is nothing more than a waste of trees. I would rather have Sloth from the Goonies keep me informed of current events.

IlliniSox4Life
03-28-2008, 04:58 AM
I recall a shooting just outside of Wrigley within the last couple of years. Don't remember all the details though.

That's not really the point. Yes, The Cell has its' shares of drunks and people causing trouble, but they don't have any more than your average ball park and they certainly don't have more than Wrigley, so it is unfair for them to be singled out above everyone else.

I won't pretend like The Cell is the best park in baseball, it isn't. However the criticisms in this article are so off base that it is ridiculous. I can point out plenty of flaws with the park. I think it was built facing the wrong direction. I think there's a little bit too much exposed concrete. I think a lot of other things. None of them though, would lead me to call the park a "dump". They are mostly things that I think make the park lack "character". If you want to take shots at the park, at least make them valid criticisms.

asg2003ws2005
03-28-2008, 10:54 AM
the same writer suggests watching a cub game at murphy's bleachers for 1-2 innings AND THEN look for a game ticket.


pretty much a stupid article, and a waste of a special edition for forbes.

lots of factual errors, and misconceptions abound!

UofCSoxFan
03-28-2008, 03:04 PM
I concede: Sox fans do not

1. drink
2. cuss
3. do anything inappropriate at the ballpark -- at least, not within the last five days. Disco Demolition? 30 years ago. William Ligue? Four and a half years ago. The Laz Diaz incident? Four years ago. Shooting at your own ballpark -- we talk about Cub fans throwing trash after AJ's bomb, but I don't remember Cub fans shooting their own ballpark, but that was almost twenty years ago. An almost completely empty ballpark? Just three years ago. A ballpark, for all this talk about Wrigley being a dump, that might have been the absolute ugliest in the game for thirteen years or so.

Give me a break -- I can't believe the partisan hackery in baseball sometimes. There are drunks, idiots, trashy people at every stadium. Most of the people who go to baseball games are just normal people who enjoy the game of baseball to varying degrees. But Cub fans are racists and they, and they alone (or they primarily), disgrace the city of Chicago and the game of baseball. Right?

William Ligue is a lifelong Cubs fan who got wasted at the Cubs game earlier in the day. I really hate how he gets associated as a Sox fan when he certainly is not.

UofCSoxFan
03-28-2008, 03:06 PM
the same writer suggests watching a cub game at murphy's bleachers for 1-2 innings AND THEN look for a game ticket.


pretty much a stupid article, and a waste of a special edition for forbes.

lots of factual errors, and misconceptions abound!

That must be why no one shows up til the 4th inning. :rolleyes:

Vestigio
03-28-2008, 03:14 PM
William Ligue is a lifelong Cubs fan who got wasted at the Cubs game earlier in the day. I really hate how he gets associated as a Sox fan when he certainly is not.

The guy that went after Laz Diaz was also Cubs fan. He ran onto the field with Cubs hat on...

asg2003ws2005
03-28-2008, 03:38 PM
The Sox and Cubs have a rare event: A friday-Sun series where BOTH are at home.

Sox Host Boston.

Cubs Host...Cardinals.


Expect mayhem. I wonder how the "forbes reader" wil react?

Oh? And did you know teh first week of may BOTH teams are on the ROAD?

asg2003ws2005
03-28-2008, 03:40 PM
There was NO cubs game the day the ligue boys went to town.

The Critic
03-28-2008, 03:49 PM
There was NO cubs game the day the ligue boys went to town.
Wasn't it Dybas who did the day-night double drunker?

Elephant
03-28-2008, 03:56 PM
The Cell is an awesome park logistically and everything. It's just not much to look at.

Lip Man 1
03-28-2008, 04:38 PM
Critic:

Correct...he was at the Reds/Cubs game that afternoon according to his girlfriend and his roommate.

Both said they were shocked he even went to the Sox game, that he was a die hard Cub fan.

Lip

UofCSoxFan
03-28-2008, 04:48 PM
Wasn't it Dybas who did the day-night double drunker?

You're right....I got the incidents mixed up, but the point still stands; these guys are hardly representative of the Sox fan base.

Cuck the Fubs
03-28-2008, 06:22 PM
You're right....I got the incidents mixed up, but the point still stands; these guys are hardly representative of the Sox fan base.

Good luck on proving that statement in the local or national media:angry:

Nellie_Fox
03-29-2008, 01:26 AM
There was NO cubs game the day the ligue boys went to town.Yep, that was Dybas, not Ligue. Ligue's family said they were surprised he was there because he wasn't a baseball fan at all.

TornLabrum
03-29-2008, 07:55 AM
Yep, that was Dybas, not Ligue. Ligue's family said they were surprised he was there because he wasn't a baseball fan at all.

But he was chaperoning a birthday party! (Which tells you something about the family right there.)

rdivaldi
03-31-2008, 12:13 AM
I recall a shooting just outside of Wrigley within the last couple of years. Don't remember all the details though.

Exactly, which just shows how much bias exists in the media. If there was a murder outside the Cell during or right after a ballgame there would be wall to wall coverage in the Cubune for weeks. The name Frank Hernandez should be ingrained in baseball lore as the Sox fan who was shot and killed visiting the Shrine. But nah, let's concentrate on the trash who ran onto the field and beat up a coach.

:whatever:

SoxandtheCityTee
03-31-2008, 12:24 AM
The Sun-Times managed to disgrace themselves just as badly as the Cubune over the shooting at the intersection of Clark & Addison -- and that's saying something. Having explained that it was not a "Wrigley shooting" because it took place outside the park after the game was over, they then ran a huge headline "Taste Shooting" when a woman who had attended the Taste of Chicago that evening was shot by someone who hadn't (both the shooter and the victim in the Wrigley shooting had been at the Cubs game), more than two hours after the Taste closed, a quarter of a mile away on Wabash. People wrote in to complain, but to no avail.

Scottzilla
04-02-2008, 05:04 PM
"Millionaire Teve Torbes was a maverick candidate who had Washington insiders running scared. He also had an undeniable animal magnetism that drove the ladies crazy. It was clear Teve Torbes had it goin' on."

ROFL thank you for that !