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View Full Version : Josh Fields optioned to Charlotte per WSCR


JorgeFabregas
03-25-2008, 03:50 PM
Announced on B&B.

hi im skot
03-25-2008, 03:51 PM
Didn't the Sox just announce that there wouldn't be any decisions regarding the roster today?

JorgeFabregas
03-25-2008, 03:51 PM
Didn't the Sox just announce that there wouldn't be any decisions regarding the roster today?
Yes, Bernstein said that they would not be making any additional moves.

jsg-07
03-25-2008, 03:54 PM
He is in the lineup today on Reiferts blog??

TDog
03-25-2008, 03:56 PM
If/when Crede is traded, Fields will come back to the Sox. This is no surprise. Some of us were posting that this would happen. I hope Fields works on his defense in AAA.

Metalthrasher442
03-25-2008, 03:56 PM
This is bs I am a huge Josh Fields fan.. and Crede should have been traded a long time ago. Sure I used to be a huge Crede fan, but I figured if the sox blow it this year.. I get to witness how good Josh Fields does..I was excited for him.

Carolina Kenny
03-25-2008, 03:57 PM
Dear Mr. Fields,

We appreciate your interest in the 3rd base position with the White Sox.
While you certainly have impressive credentials we have decided to offer the position to another applicant.

We will keep your information on file for (12) months if a position opens up that you are qualified for.

Thank you for you interest in employment with the White Sox.

Sincerely,

Kenny

The Chicago White Sox-A Equal Opportunity Company

sox1970
03-25-2008, 03:58 PM
Bourgeois, Carrasco, and Phillips also cut.

LITTLE NELL
03-25-2008, 04:07 PM
I feel for Josh, its too bad we could not trade Crede. I'll never forget what Crede did for us in 05 but I think he screwed the Sox by waiting to have surgery and not having it after the 06 season.

soltrain21
03-25-2008, 04:12 PM
Lame.

rdwj
03-25-2008, 04:14 PM
This is bs I am a huge Josh Fields fan.. and Crede should have been traded a long time ago. Sure I used to be a huge Crede fan, but I figured if the sox blow it this year.. I get to witness how good Josh Fields does..I was excited for him.

Who is going to give anything for him before he's proven healthy? It's not like KW didn't TRY to trade him. Josh is young and will eventually take his place at third unless something drastic happens. Hopefully he works on his D before we have to see him in a major league uniform again.

Sockinchisox
03-25-2008, 04:16 PM
Lame.

Ditto.

EMachine10
03-25-2008, 04:17 PM
I realize that without moving Crede, this was a move that was likely to happen. However, I am more disappointed that Phillips didn't stick with the club.

Rocky Soprano
03-25-2008, 04:17 PM
:bandance::bandance::bandance:
:gulp::gulp::gulp:
:):):)

Joe Crede! Yes!

sox1970
03-25-2008, 04:18 PM
:bandance::bandance::bandance:
:gulp::gulp::gulp:
:):):)

Joe Crede! Yes!

2005!!

Rocky Soprano
03-25-2008, 04:20 PM
2005!!

My calendar says 2008!
Joe Crede!

Sockinchisox
03-25-2008, 04:20 PM
Kenny said Uribe will be the 2B as well.

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/

spiffie
03-25-2008, 04:22 PM
So somehow after all the offseason shuffles and movement and everything, we're going into opening day with the sum total of our changes being to add Orlando Cabrera and Nick Swisher, and subtract Jon Garland. And we're expecting that to somehow add up to the 20+ wins needed to improve for a playoff berth? Yes I know we have to play the games that aren't played on paper intangiblesjustlike2005undertheradardarkcloud. But really, when you look at it that way, its hard to expect much out of them.

And yes, I know we signed bullpen guys...hopefully they'll look better once the regular season starts.

Metalthrasher442
03-25-2008, 04:28 PM
Who is going to give anything for him before he's proven healthy? It's not like KW didn't TRY to trade him. Josh is young and will eventually take his place at third unless something drastic happens. Hopefully he works on his D before we have to see him in a major league uniform again.

Very true.

I was just pretty sure I would get to see Fields the whole season this year. I was excited. I just got pissed.

palehozenychicty
03-25-2008, 04:30 PM
So somehow after all the offseason shuffles and movement and everything, we're going into opening day with the sum total of our changes being to add Orlando Cabrera and Nick Swisher, and subtract Jon Garland. And we're expecting that to somehow add up to the 20+ wins needed to improve for a playoff berth? Yes I know we have to play the games that aren't played on paper intangiblesjustlike2005undertheradardarkcloud. But really, when you look at it that way, its hard to expect much out of them.

And yes, I know we signed bullpen guys...hopefully they'll look better once the regular season starts.

Indeed. I picked them for 91, but realistically, this is more likely a transitional year for the team. We'll see, but Fields/Anderson/Richar (when healthy) should all be starting. Period.

JermaineDye05
03-25-2008, 04:31 PM
This was unavoidable, hopefully it doesn't stunt Josh's growth.

FedEx227
03-25-2008, 04:31 PM
So somehow after all the offseason shuffles and movement and everything, we're going into opening day with the sum total of our changes being to add Orlando Cabrera and Nick Swisher, and subtract Jon Garland. And we're expecting that to somehow add up to the 20+ wins needed to improve for a playoff berth? Yes I know we have to play the games that aren't played on paper intangiblesjustlike2005undertheradardarkcloud. But really, when you look at it that way, its hard to expect much out of them.

And yes, I know we signed bullpen guys...hopefully they'll look better once the regular season starts.

Very, very disappointing. I thought we finally turned the corner as an organization and were not going to be stuck trying to cling on 2005 pieces forever. However, I feel OC and Swisher will be great parts of this team I'm still VERY disappointed to see Uribe out there again, I cannot believe Ozzie and Kenny let him fool them again.

Metalthrasher442
03-25-2008, 04:32 PM
This was unavoidable, hopefully it doesn't stunt Josh's growth.

This is how I feel. As I'm pretty excited for him.

Tragg
03-25-2008, 04:32 PM
So somehow after all the offseason shuffles and movement and everything, we're going into opening day with the sum total of our changes being to add Orlando Cabrera and Nick Swisher, and subtract Jon Garland. And we're expecting that to somehow add up to the 20+ wins needed to improve for a playoff berth?.
Actually, it's just adding Swisher and subtracting Garland (Iguchi and Cabrera were roughly equal offensively) and subtracting 5 of our top 8 or so prospects for that privilege. Bullpen helped via FA.
Uribe starting at 2b - Owens starting, much less getting the most at bats on the team; the "emphasis" on obp was obviously just talk.

balke
03-25-2008, 04:33 PM
So somehow after all the offseason shuffles and movement and everything, we're going into opening day with the sum total of our changes being to add Orlando Cabrera and Nick Swisher, and subtract Jon Garland. And we're expecting that to somehow add up to the 20+ wins needed to improve for a playoff berth? Yes I know we have to play the games that aren't played on paper intangiblesjustlike2005undertheradardarkcloud. But really, when you look at it that way, its hard to expect much out of them.

And yes, I know we signed bullpen guys...hopefully they'll look better once the regular season starts.

+ Ramirez, - Pods, - Mackowiak, -Cintron, -Gonzalez, +linebrink, +Dotel,
+Ohka, + Quentin, -

Not injured:

Ozuna
Crede
Thome


Look at it this way, we finally have something to look forward to coming out of the minor league system with Josh Fields!

It's like the team took a giant dump and flushed all the crap players that should've never made the team barring injuries. Now they have better depth and a better SS and a better looking OF (to some).

I think they look good. We'll see how they actually do. I don't think this is a team that can win playoff games, but its a team made to get to the playoffs via depth. We'll see how it plays out. Trades are still coming at some point you'd have to believe.

Lukin13
03-25-2008, 04:33 PM
I'll buy that some people here like Crede more than Fields for the '08 season. I personally don't agree with it but I can see how some people would.

But how much more do you like Crede than Fields???

Why invest in a guy that will not be here in '09, if he isn't heads and tails better than the guy that will be here for the forseeable future?

I am a MAJOR KW fanboy and I have liked every single move he has made with this team. But the way he and Ozzie have compiled our current starting lineup and roster has been an absolute disaster.

Player A:
-Will hit 35 homers
-Drive in 90
-Poor Defensively but still fairly "raw"
-Future of the ballclub

Player B:
-Will hit 15 homers
-Drive in 60
-Great Defensively, but will split time with ****ing Pablo Ozuna who will in turn revert the Sox back to BAD defensively at third overall
-Gone by fall



THE WORST MOVE KW AND OZZE HAVE MADE EVER.
:whiner::angry::whiner::angry::scratch:

spawn
03-25-2008, 04:34 PM
Hmm...I didn't realize Josh Fields was going to be the next Brooks Robinson....or even Mike Schmidt. I also didn't realize he was a perennial All-Star either.

My guess is the same people bitching the Crede didn't get traded would be bitching if he wasn't traded for something of value. At least with him being the Opening day 3rd baseman, he gets to showcase how valuable he really is. then he can get traded for something of value and the Josh Fields era can begin. I saw Joe last week in a game during ST. He looks good defensively...better than Fields IMO.

DickAllen72
03-25-2008, 04:34 PM
Bourgeois, Carrasco, and Phillips also cut.

Now I'm upset. Phillips easily earned that spot over Toby Hall. Hall did nothing for the Sox last season and doesn't even appear to be healthy now. Even when healthy, he's not that good. :(:

soltrain21
03-25-2008, 04:35 PM
Uribe at 2nd is the most disheartening. Should have just kept him at short, kept Garland and tried to make a move for Luis Castillo or something.

FedEx227
03-25-2008, 04:37 PM
Uribe at 2nd is the most disheartening. Should have just kept him at short, kept Garland and tried to make a move for Luis Castillo or something.

Exactly. The day we got OC was great for me, not only do we get a professional hitter, we get a guy who can keep himself in shape, hit the crap out of the ball and play as good of defense as Uribe. PLUS we get to get that palm-showing vortex out of our lineup and maybe actually see some pitches as a team.

Fast foward... Uribe at 2B because he had a good spring. Please, please give Ramirez or Richar a shot. PLEASE. Do not reward 4-5 years of ****ty play.

soltrain21
03-25-2008, 04:38 PM
Hmm...I didn't realize Josh Fields was going to be the next Brooks Robinson....or even Mike Schmidt. I also didn't realize he was a perennial All-Star either.



I haven't seen a single person call Josh Fields either of those. At this stage in his career he has looked much better than Crede ever did. People were calling for Crede's head on a platter.

I understand people love what Joe did to help us in 2005, but get over it - he isn't going to be the same player with these back injuries. You know who else was great one year and helped his team win a World Series? Darin Erstad.

Sockinchisox
03-25-2008, 04:40 PM
Hmm...I didn't realize Josh Fields was going to be the next Brooks Robinson....or even Mike Schmidt. I also didn't realize he was a perennial All-Star either.

My guess is the same people bitching the Crede didn't get traded would be bitching if he wasn't traded for something of value. At least with him being the Opening day 3rd baseman, he gets to showcase how valuable he really is. then he can get traded for something of value and the Josh Fields era can begin. I saw Joe last week in a game during ST. He looks good defensively...better than Fields IMO.

If he's bad, then your stuck with Crede for the year, hurting your teams chances of competing.

sox1970
03-25-2008, 04:40 PM
Exactly. The day we got OC was great for me, not only do we get a professional hitter, we get a guy who can keep himself in shape, hit the crap out of the ball and play as good of defense as Uribe. PLUS we get to get that palm-showing vortex out of our lineup and maybe actually see some pitches as a team.

Fast foward... Uribe at 2B because he had a good spring. Please, please give Ramirez or Richar a shot. PLEASE. Do not reward 4-5 years of ****ty play.

Obviously Crede and Uribe were not in the plans for 2008. It was supposed to be Fields and Richar, but Kenny overestimated the market for both Crede and Uribe. Meh.....we'll see how it goes.

FedEx227
03-25-2008, 04:42 PM
Obviously Crede and Uribe were not in the plans for 2008. It was supposed to be Fields and Richar, but Kenny overestimated the market for both Crede and Uribe. Meh.....we'll see how it goes.

2007, with a worse rotation and Nick Swisher/OC. So not all bad... but still not the difference or the turn this organization could've made.

spiffie
03-25-2008, 04:42 PM
Hmm...I didn't realize Josh Fields was going to be the next Brooks Robinson....or even Mike Schmidt. I also didn't realize he was a perennial All-Star either.

My guess is the same people bitching the Crede didn't get traded would be bitching if he wasn't traded for something of value. At least with him being the Opening day 3rd baseman, he gets to showcase how valuable he really is. then he can get traded for something of value and the Josh Fields era can begin. I saw Joe last week in a game during ST. He looks good defensively...better than Fields IMO.
Yes...a guy with a career line of 259/305/446, a surgically repaired back, less than one year left on his contract, and Scott Boras as his agent is sure to be quite valuable as the year goes on. :rolleyes:

sox1970
03-25-2008, 04:46 PM
2007, with a worse rotation.

Better bullpen, no Erstad, no Mackowiak...

spawn
03-25-2008, 04:46 PM
If he's bad, then your stuck with Crede for the year, hurting your teams chances of competing.
If he's bad, then you can always bring up Fields and bench or cut bait with Crede. The way people are reacting makes me think we just sent down a future HOF'er. *****.:rolleyes:

RedHeadPaleHoser
03-25-2008, 04:47 PM
I hope Crede plays his ass off. At this point, I can't hope for anything else.

Fields goes to AAA and Anderson makes the team? :scratch:

Rocky Soprano
03-25-2008, 04:48 PM
I understand people love what Joe did to help us in 2005, but get over it - he isn't going to be the same player with these back injuries. You know who else was great one year and helped his team win a World Series? Darin Erstad.

And you know this for a fact?
Now you are comparing Joe to Erstad, that is just stupid.

SaltyPretzel
03-25-2008, 04:49 PM
Wouldn't Fields be a good backup plan at DH if/when Thome gets hurt?

Rocky Soprano
03-25-2008, 04:49 PM
The way people are reacting makes me think we just sent down a future HOF'er. *****.:rolleyes:

Thank You!

spiffie
03-25-2008, 04:50 PM
And you know this for a fact?
Now you are comparing Joe to Erstad, that is just stupid.
That's not fair. Darin Erstad has been much more productive over his career than Joe Crede.

Rocky Soprano
03-25-2008, 04:50 PM
I hope Crede plays his ass off. At this point, I can't hope for anything else.

Fields goes to AAA and Anderson makes the team? :scratch:

Anderson has played his ass off in spring training plus he plays OF. Fields can only play 3B and he doesnt even do that all that well.

FedEx227
03-25-2008, 04:52 PM
Anderson has played his ass off in spring training plus he plays OF. Fields can only play 3B and he doesnt even do that all that well.

Yup, but don't mention that Crede's offense was awful PRE back surgery. That would undermine what he did for 2005!!!!

Rocky Soprano
03-25-2008, 04:55 PM
Yup, but don't mention that Crede's offense was awful PRE back surgery. That would undermine what he did for 2005!!!!

PRE back surgery?! That is your argument? So the back problems had NOTHING to do with his struggles?

spawn
03-25-2008, 04:56 PM
Yup, but don't mention that Crede's offense was awful PRE back surgery. That would undermine what he did for 2005!!!!
His last full season pre-surgery, he hit .283 with 30 HR's and 94 RBI. He really sucked.

delben91
03-25-2008, 04:57 PM
Please, please give Ramirez or Richar a shot. PLEASE.

If Richar could field a groundball and stand up straight I think it would've been his job to lose. Between his back injury and the visa issues, he fell out of the picture, at least for the first couple weeks of the season. If he gets healthy and does well in Charlotte, he could be starting in Chicago come May.

I just don't think it was that he wasn't given a shot, but that since he was injured he couldn't take advantage of it. Two different things.

FedEx227
03-25-2008, 04:59 PM
PRE back surgery?! That is your argument? So the back problems had NOTHING to do with his struggles?

They absolutely contributed to his bad year last year. But you're forgetting the other years we've had him.

2002 I won't count, he struggled but he was still new, limited at-bats, etc.

2003: .261/.308/.433
2004: .239/.299/.418
2005: .252/.303/.454
2006: .283/.323/.506

Obviously he had a solid 2006, but that was a lineup-wide explosion. I'm not going to discredit what he did, but those numbers above are GLARING. He had 3 years of little to no progression whatsoever, before having a good year in 2006, then a bad one in 07 possibly to blame for his back problems.

But really, I don't feel much sympathy when the man chose to not have surgery and put himself in a position to fail last year.

The fact of the matter is from a business standpoint this move makes NO sense. I don't care which way you feel, there is no way that this move makes ANY sense in the context of this season. Crede is gone after this year, we are far from World Series contenders, all we're doing is showing blind loyalty to players that won't give us the time of day the second they move onto other teams.

Rocky Soprano
03-25-2008, 05:03 PM
They absolutely contributed to his bad year last year. But you're forgetting the other years we've had him.

2002 I won't count, he was still new, limited at-bats, etc.

2003: .261/.308/.433
2004: .239/.299/.418
2005: .252/.303/.454

Obviously he had a solid 2006, but that was a lineup-wide explosion. I'm not going to discredit what he did, but those numbers above are GLARING. He had 3 years of little to no progression whatsoever, before having a good year in 2006, then a bad one in 07 possibly to blame for his back problems.

But really, I don't feel much sympathy when the man chose to not have surgery and put himself in a position to fail last year.

The fact of the matter is from a business standpoint this move makes NO sense. Crede is gone after this year, we are far from World Series contenders, all we're doing is showing blind loyalty to players that won't give us the time of day the second they move onto other teams.

I agree that he did not put himself in a good position by electing to not have surgery. He admitted that he made a mistake.

I just dont see why a lot of fans feel that Fields is the answer. Does he have a good bat? Yes. But he K's WAY too much and his defense is sub par. Does Fields deserve to play everyday? Yes, they tried putting him in the outfield and that was bad. They tried trading Crede but could not get anything of value.

What should of happened?

goon
03-25-2008, 05:04 PM
Fields has undoubtedly done everything he can to make this team, but I don't mind having Crede at 3B this season. With the way the rotation looks, the Sox are going to need all the defense they can get, which is also why I'd like to see Anderson in CF, but it might take a while for the OF to shake out. Crede has really come into his own at the plate in the past few years and there is no evidence that his surgery will effect how he will play this season. Crede is a solid 3B, I don't get the hate.

Let's just hope Fields doesn't have trouble when he comes back up.

spawn
03-25-2008, 05:07 PM
I just dont see why a lot of fans feel that Fields is the answer. Does he have a good bat? Yes. But he K's WAY too much and his defense is sub par.
He struck out 125 times in 373 AB's last year...that's an average of almost 1 K per 3 AB's. But he hit 23 homers, so that makes up for the K's and iffy defense. Meanwhile, Crede hasn't struck out 100 times in any season at the major league level. I just don't understand why having Crede at 3rd is the end of life as we know it. :dunno:

SoxNation05
03-25-2008, 05:09 PM
:bandance::bandance::bandance:
:gulp::gulp::gulp:
:):):)

Joe Crede! Yes!

2005!!
I will call your 2005 and raise you a Clutch comment and a Silver Slugger.

FedEx227
03-25-2008, 05:10 PM
He struck out 125 times in 373 AB's last year...that's an average of almost 1 K per 3 AB's. But he hit 23 homers, so that makes up for the K's and iffy defense. Meanwhile, Crede hasn't struck out 100 times in any season at the major league level. I just don't understand why having Crede at 3rd is the end of life as we know it. :dunno:

It's not, but it's a stupid business move. Fields has nothing left to prove at the minor league level, so if you've pegged this man as your 09 starter, how does batting against sub-par competition help him? Why not allow him to figure out some stuff at the major league level.

This move makes sense if we're in the running for a pennant or a divisional title, but we have Floyd and Danks in our rotation. This is a 1-2 place team move, this is a "we don't want to slip up or lose a few games in the standings by having someone learn on the job" move. We aren't in that position, and if you think we are you're just as delusional as Kenny and Ozzie.

Our division is very good this year, the Indians had a great 06 even without a good season from Hafner (I doubt we see that again), and the Tigers offense may be one of the best ever especially with an in-shape Cabrera. Yet we are making moves like we're right in that hunt... I don't think on paper we get there, not until Floyd and Danks make a 180* turn from what they've done so far in their careers. But see, we have 2 guys "learning on the job" in our rotation without much talk, however when it comes to our lineup we want veterans, etc. It's a complete contradiction.

soltrain21
03-25-2008, 05:10 PM
He struck out 125 times in 373 AB's last year...that's an average of almost 1 K per 3 AB's. But he hit 23 homers, so that makes up for the K's and iffy defense. Meanwhile, Crede hasn't struck out 100 times in any season at the major league level. I just don't understand why having Crede at 3rd is the end of life as we know it. :dunno:

Because it's pointless. Fields has done everything he can to make this team, and they handed the position back to Joe, just like Uribe got second base handed to him. There was no reward. It's like Ozzie is afraid of change, or something.

spawn
03-25-2008, 05:14 PM
This move makes sense if we're in the running for a pennant or a divisional title, but we have Floyd and Danks in our rotation. This is a 1-2 place team move, this is a "we don't want to slip up or lose a few games in the standings by having someone learn on the job" move. We aren't in that position, and if you think we are you're just as delusional as Kenny and Ozzie.
It doesn't matter what I think...it's what Ozzie and Kenny think. They feel they have a team capable of challenging the Indians and the Tigers for the Division. If they feel that, then they need to put the best players available at each position. They feel Crede is the best 3rd baseman available, and it would be stupid to leave Fields here instead of letting him play everyday. You can call them delusional all you want. they seem to have confidence in the players on the roster. I'll back them on that until proven otherwise. I'm not going to sit hear and bitch. moan, and whine becasue Josh ****ing Fields was sent down to the minors. What exactly will it accomplish?

FedEx227
03-25-2008, 05:15 PM
It doesn't matter what I think...it's what Ozzie and Kenny think. They feel they have a team capable of challenging the Indians and the Tigers for the Division. If they feel that, then they need to put the best players available at each position. They feel Crede is the best 3rd baseman available, and it would be stupid to leave Fields here instead of letting him play everyday. You can call them delusional all you want. they seem to have confidence in the players on the roster. I'll back them on that until proven otherwise. I'm not going to sit hear and bitch. moan, and whine becasue Josh ****ing Fields was sent down to the minors. What exactly will it accomplish?

Just as we were suppose to trust that Ozzie and Kenny knew what the hell they were doing with Luis Terrero, Andy Gonzalez and Darin Erstad.

This song and dance again?

thomas35forever
03-25-2008, 05:15 PM
Fields entered ST having to prove he belongs on the team's roster. He'd start on any other team that didn't have a third baseman. We had Crede, who proved back in '05 that he needs to start anywhere. He really showed this spring that he's recovered from a surgery that should've been done last offseason. I really don't mind what's happened here. While Fields may not ever have the defense Crede has, that area has room for improvement, so if anything, I would've sent him back down to work on that. He's young and has time to develop. If Crede stays with us the whole year, Fields will have more defensive seasoning that he can bring to the Sox come '09.

spawn
03-25-2008, 05:17 PM
Because it's pointless. Fields has done everything he can to make this team, and they handed the position back to Joe, just like Uribe got second base handed to him. There was no reward. It's like Ozzie is afraid of change, or something.
And what exactly did Fields do to earn the position? IMO, it always has been Crede's to lose. Fields didn't do anything extraordinary that made me feel he was the best player available to play 3rd. They both have had subpar springs offensively. He could've made the team, but I'd rather he play everyday instead of wasting away on the bench.

soltrain21
03-25-2008, 05:17 PM
Fields entered ST having to prove he belongs on the team's roster. He'd start on any other team that didn't have a third baseman. We had Crede, who proved back in '05 that he needs to start anywhere. He really showed this spring that he's recovered from a surgery that should've been done last offseason.

Fields proved he belonged on the team last year.
First off, saying Crede proved something on 05 doesn't mean ****. That was three years ago, and I don't think he proved he has recovered some surgery either, or else he would have been traded.

Sockinchisox
03-25-2008, 05:18 PM
Because it's pointless. Fields has done everything he can to make this team, and they handed the position back to Joe, just like Uribe got second base handed to him. There was no reward. It's like Ozzie is afraid of change, or something.

Uribe didn't really get the 2B job handed to him, he earned it, he outplayed Ramirez and Richar. The Sox, who said there was a competition for the 3B spot, are handing the job to Crede even though Fields had out hit Crede and made LESS errors.

soltrain21
03-25-2008, 05:19 PM
And what exactly did Fields do to earn the position? IMO, it always has been Crede's to lose. Fields didn't do anything extraordinary that made me feel he was the best player available to play 3rd. They both have had subpar springs offensively. He could've made the team, but I'd rather he play everyday instead of wasting away on the bench.

Let Crede "waste" away on the bench, then. He is the one with the back problems that won't be able to play everyday, anyway. He is the one that didn't want to talk contract extension. He is the one who waited for back surgery.

Fields earned his spot last year. Plain and simple.

spawn
03-25-2008, 05:19 PM
Just as we were suppose to trust that Ozzie and Kenny knew what the hell they were doing with Luis Terrero, Andy Gonzalez and Darin Erstad.

This song and dance again?
Do whatever you want. Last season was the first really bad one under KW's watch. I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If you don't, then that's on you.

spawn
03-25-2008, 05:20 PM
Let Crede "waste" away on the bench, then. He is the one with the back problems that won't be able to play everyday, anyway. He is the one that didn't want to talk contract extension. He is the one who waited for back surgery.

Fields earned his spot last year. Plain and simple.
Yeah...the 125 K's and shoddy defense really earned him a starting spot. Oh wait. I forgot. We hit 23 homers. Wow. :rolleyes:

oeo
03-25-2008, 05:20 PM
If he's bad, then you can always bring up Fields and bench or cut bait with Crede. The way people are reacting makes me think we just sent down a future HOF'er. *****.:rolleyes:

No, they sent down a guy that is ready for the big leagues. Playing in AAA will do nothing but hurt his development.

Those that are happy about this move...it's your man Crede's problems (not talent) that made it happen. If Crede would have shown an ounce of offensive ability during Spring Training, we might have already gotten something worthwhile for him. Right now we're 'stuck' with Crede; I doubt it was in Kenny's plans to keep him around.

spawn
03-25-2008, 05:22 PM
No, they sent down a guy that is ready for the big leagues. Playing in AAA will do nothing but hurt his development.

And how exactly will playing in AAA hurt his development? Why have the minor league system at all if all it will do is hurt a players development? i've never understood that argument.

soltrain21
03-25-2008, 05:22 PM
Yeah...the 125 K's and shoddy defense really earned him a starting spot. Oh wait. I forgot. We hit 23 homers. Wow. :rolleyes:

Crede had more errors this spring training and, oh yeah...is coming off back surgery after really only having 1 good year.

The cult following Joe has gotten is ridiculous.

It's Dankerific
03-25-2008, 05:22 PM
No, they sent down a guy that is ready for the big leagues. Playing in AAA will do nothing but hurt his development.

Those that are happy about this move...it's your man Crede's problems (not talent) that made it happen. If Crede would have shown an ounce of offensive ability during Spring Training, we might have already gotten something worthwhile for him. Right now we're 'stuck' with Crede; I doubt it was in Kenny's plans to keep him around.

Maybe he doesnt want to be traded, he wants to play for the Sox! ;)

spawn
03-25-2008, 05:23 PM
Fields earned his spot last year. Plain and simple.
How did he earn that spot? Please, give examples other than the 23 homers he hit.

spawn
03-25-2008, 05:23 PM
The cult following Joe has gotten is ridiculous.
Not as ridiculous as the over evaluation of Josh Fields.:rolleyes:

oeo
03-25-2008, 05:24 PM
And how exactly will playing in AAA hurt his development? Why have the minor league system at all if all it will do is hurt a players development? i've never understood that argument.

Because he will be facing AAA pitching. He's already proven he can hit that crap...how is it going to help?

You have a minor league system to develop talent and get it to the big leagues. When it's ready for the big leagues, sending it down doesn't help anything. So whose argument doesn't make sense?

thomas35forever
03-25-2008, 05:24 PM
And how exactly will playing in AAA hurt his development? Why have the minor league system at all if all it will do is hurt a players development? i've never understood that argument.
True, and he didn't really impress me with his defense last year. Didn't you see him in the field?

spiffie
03-25-2008, 05:24 PM
I agree that he did not put himself in a good position by electing to not have surgery. He admitted that he made a mistake.

I just dont see why a lot of fans feel that Fields is the answer. Does he have a good bat? Yes. But he K's WAY too much and his defense is sub par. Does Fields deserve to play everyday? Yes, they tried putting him in the outfield and that was bad. They tried trading Crede but could not get anything of value.

What should of happened?
Yup, there is just NO room on this team for anyone who lands in the top 10 in the league in strikeouts. SWISHER, THOME, PACK YOUR BAGS!

oeo
03-25-2008, 05:25 PM
Not as ridiculous as the over evaluation of Josh Fields.:rolleyes:

Or the overrated talents of Joe Crede. :dunno:

I like Joe, but I honestly can't wait until he's traded now.

It's Dankerific
03-25-2008, 05:26 PM
Because he will be facing AAA pitching. He's already proven he can hit that crap...how is it going to help?

You have a minor league system to develop talent and get it to the big leagues. When it's ready for the big leagues, sending it down doesn't help anything. So whose argument doesn't make sense?

Hitting is not his only area of improvement needed. in AAA, the batters still hit the ball to 3b and he still needs to field them.

Being able to hit a bit isn't the only factor. If you use the same argument the BA haters use, even Fields "admitted he has to improve on some things".

FedEx227
03-25-2008, 05:26 PM
No, they sent down a guy that is ready for the big leagues. Playing in AAA will do nothing but hurt his development.

Those that are happy about this move...it's your man Crede's problems (not talent) that made it happen. If Crede would have shown an ounce of offensive ability during Spring Training, we might have already gotten something worthwhile for him. Right now we're 'stuck' with Crede; I doubt it was in Kenny's plans to keep him around.

We don't agree on much, but bravo. :D:

spawn
03-25-2008, 05:26 PM
Because he will be facing AAA pitching. He's already proven he can hit that crap...how is it going to help?

You have a minor league system to develop talent and get it to the big leagues. When it's ready for the big leagues, sending it down doesn't help anything.
His defense could use a little work for one thing. Who says he's being sent down because his offense is hampered? I didn't know you only worked on your offense in the minors.

spawn
03-25-2008, 05:28 PM
Or the overrated talents of Joe Crede. :dunno:

I've never said Joe Crede was a sure fire lock for the HOF...but he's a better 3rd baseman at this point in his career than Josh Fields.

oeo
03-25-2008, 05:29 PM
His defense could use a little work for one thing. Who says he's being sent down because his offense is hampered? I didn't know you only worked on your offense in the minors.

He's not being sent down because he's not ready, he's being sent down because of Joe Crede, period. It has nothing to do with his abilities...they just couldn't get anything for Crede.

thomas35forever
03-25-2008, 05:30 PM
He's not being sent down because he's not ready, he's being sent down because of Joe Crede.
Exactly. We weren't able to deal Crede this spring, so what else were we going to do with him? Sure, he's just coming off surgery, but you can't let a player of his caliber waste away on the bench while someone younger is doing the tasks he should be out there doing.

#1swisher
03-25-2008, 05:30 PM
Obviously Crede and Uribe were not in the plans for 2008. It was supposed to be Fields and Richar, but Kenny overestimated the market for both Crede and Uribe. Meh.....we'll see how it goes.

Is this fact?

spawn
03-25-2008, 05:30 PM
He's not being sent down because he's not ready, he's being sent down because of Joe Crede.
He's being sent down because the 3rd basman in front of him is a better all around 3rd baseman than he is...and that would be Joe Crede. So yes, you're absolutely correct.

soltrain21
03-25-2008, 05:31 PM
I've never said Joe Crede was a sure fire lock for the HOF...but he's a better 3rd baseman at this point in his career than Josh Fields.

And Josh Fields is better than Crede was when he was at the point Fields is at. Needless to say.

I just can't stand the hesitation that this organization has with youngsters. They allow for zero **** up, yet let the Uribes of the world run crazy and be ****ing terrible.

goon
03-25-2008, 05:31 PM
Yup, there is just NO room on this team for anyone who lands in the top 10 in the league in strikeouts. SWISHER, THOME, PACK YOUR BAGS!

I know what you're saying, but Swisher and Thome rack up a ton of walks.

spawn
03-25-2008, 05:32 PM
I know what you're saying, but Swisher and Thome rack up a ton of walks.
Exactly.

oeo
03-25-2008, 05:33 PM
He's being sent down because the 3rd basman in front of him is a better all around 3rd baseman than he is...and that would be Joe Crede. So yes, you're absolutely correct.

No. He's being sent down because the third baseman 'in front of him' is getting paid a lot more money. What are we going to do with Crede...send him down? Put him on the bench? If they can't get anything in a trade, they have no choice but to start him.

Better 'all-around'...that's laughable. Better defender, and it ends there. Joe Crede also has no patience. He doesn't K much, he just pops it up after a short AB, instead.

spawn
03-25-2008, 05:34 PM
And Josh Fields is better than Crede was when he was at the point Fields is at. Needless to say.

But he's not as good as Crede is now.

FedEx227
03-25-2008, 05:34 PM
Exactly.

Josh Fields: K/BB - 3.34 with a career .309 OBP

Joe Crede: K/BB - 2.59 with a career .305 OBP

Yup, Fields' Ks are killer.

spawn
03-25-2008, 05:34 PM
No. He's being sent down because the third baseman 'in front of him' is getting paid a lot more money. What are we going to do with Crede...send him down? Put him on the bench? If they can't get anything in a trade, they have no choice but to start him.

Better 'all-around'...that's laughable. Better defender, and it ends there.
Defense fits into the category of "all-around".

oeo
03-25-2008, 05:36 PM
Defense fits into the category of "all-around".

Ya think?

So does offense...and I'll take Fields' offense over Crede's any day of the week. An 'all-around' better third baseman would be someone that can play better defense, as well as hit the ball better...Crede can't do both.

spawn
03-25-2008, 05:37 PM
Oh, now you're king OBP?

Josh Fields: K/BB - 3.34 with a career .309 OBP

Joe Crede: K/BB - 2.59 with a career .305 OBP
I never claimed that. someone tried comparing Fields K's with Thome and Swisher, and another poster brought up the fact that Thome and Swisher get a ton of walks. Maybe you need to reread that part of the thread.:happyguy:

FedEx227
03-25-2008, 05:38 PM
I never claimed that. someone tried comparing Fields K's with Thome and Swisher, and another poster brought up the fact that Thome and Swisher get a ton of walks. Maybe you need to reread that part of the thread.:happyguy:

Oh that's stupid, but funny how Fields Ks way too much yet still has a better career OBP than Crede, despite having only ONE full year of MLB play.

Kinda funny?

oeo
03-25-2008, 05:39 PM
Yup, Fields' Ks are killer.

I guess it's easy to ignore the short ABs that Crede has which usually end in a pop out.

As long as he doesn't K, though...:dunno:

spawn
03-25-2008, 05:40 PM
Ya think?

So does offense...and I'll take Fields' offense over Crede's any day of the week. An 'all-around' better third baseman would be someone that can play better defense, as well as hit the ball better...Crede can't do both.
Josh's offense isn't that much better than Crede's. but you can continue to think that if you like.

I must say it's been a LOT of fun whipping you guys up into a frenzy over this situation, but I have to go home now. Enjoy your evening. :wink: :happyguy:

Cuck the Fubs
03-25-2008, 05:40 PM
Josh isn't getting banished for good....it's temporary.

Worst case he spends 08 in triple A, then takes over for Crede in 09.

No matter how you slice it Josh is the future, Crede is on the clock.

soltrain21
03-25-2008, 05:40 PM
I never claimed that. someone tried comparing Fields K's with Thome and Swisher, and another poster brought up the fact that Thome and Swisher get a ton of walks. Maybe you need to reread that part of the thread.:happyguy:

Yeah, but you claimed that Field's strikeouts are killer, yet him and Crede really aren't that far apart stat wise.

And we could get into the ever so epic, "how important is a strikeout?" argument.

soltrain21
03-25-2008, 05:41 PM
I must say it's been a LOT of fun whipping you guys up into a frenzy over this situation, but I have to go home now. Enjoy your evening. :wink: :happyguy:

Yes, because we are mad at you, Spawn - not the organization who made these decisions. :rolleyes:

spawn
03-25-2008, 05:42 PM
Josh isn't getting banished for good....it's temporary.

Worst case he spends 08 in triple A, then takes over for Crede in 09.

No matter how you slice it Josh is the future, Crede is on the clock.
Ah...the voice of reason. Otherwise, this thread has been extremely amusing!:roflmao:

FedEx227
03-25-2008, 05:42 PM
I guess it's easy to ignore the short ABs that Crede has which usually end in a pop out.

Career pitchers per plate appearance!

Crede: 3.7

Fields: 4.2

Other Sox of note (2007):

Pods: 4.2

Thome: 4.2

Dye: 4.0

Iguchi: 4.0

Konerko: 3.9

Owens: 3.9

Worse than Crede?

Uribe, Cintron, AJ, Ozuna.

Oh yeah, his back hurt in 2007, how about 2006?

Crede: 3.7

Worse than him? Uribe: 3.4, Anderson 3.5, AJ, 3.4, Cintron 3.3, Ozuna 3.2

spawn
03-25-2008, 05:43 PM
Yes, because we are mad at you, Spawn - not the organization who made these decisions. :rolleyes:
Where did I ever say you were mad at me? I haven't taken anything said in this thread personally. Only a fool would do that.

soltrain21
03-25-2008, 05:45 PM
Where did I ever say you were mad at me? I haven't taken anything said in this thread personally. Only a fool would do that.


I was talking about the fact that you "whipped us into a frenzy." You actually didn't do anything, it's the organization's decisions that we give a **** about.

And Cuck - Fields should be up in 08. Not 09 - it's that simple.

Rocky Soprano
03-25-2008, 05:47 PM
Yup, there is just NO room on this team for anyone who lands in the top 10 in the league in strikeouts. SWISHER, THOME, PACK YOUR BAGS!

So now Fields is as good as Swisher and Thome?
Great comparison!

kittle42
03-25-2008, 05:48 PM
Hey, much like Anderson/Owens, another decision that won't matter when the pitching has an ERA over 6!

spawn
03-25-2008, 05:48 PM
I was talking about the fact that you "whipped us into a frenzy." You actually didn't do anything, it's the organization's decisions that we give a **** about.

Ahh...so it was the organization's posts you were responding to, not mine. Got it! :thumbsup:

spiffie
03-25-2008, 05:49 PM
So now Fields is as good as Swisher and Thome?
Great comparison!
No, he's not as good. But this utterly meaningless concern with K rate, while ignoring the fact he actually gets on base more than St. Crede, is just absurd. Just because Joe pops out to the SS 300 times a year instead of striking out more often doesn't make those outs any better.

LoveYourSuit
03-25-2008, 05:50 PM
No matter how you slice it Josh is the future, Crede is on the clock.


Even more reason to cut your ties with Crede.


So what, is Crede here to audition for another team next season?


The Cubs dumped Prior because he only wanted to rehab and not sign at least a 2 year deal. Crede is on the same boat, only wants 1 and out.

spiffie
03-25-2008, 05:50 PM
Hey, much like Anderson/Owens, another decision that won't matter when the pitching has an ERA over 6!
Ahh, it likely won't be over 5.50. 5.75 at worst if Floyd implodes :gulp:

RedHeadPaleHoser
03-25-2008, 05:52 PM
Anderson has played his ass off in spring training plus he plays OF.

And IIRC, Anderson had a great spring in '06....better than Crede. How well did that work out?

Rocky Soprano
03-25-2008, 05:52 PM
No, he's not as good. But this utterly meaningless concern with K rate, while ignoring the fact he actually gets on base more than St. Crede, is just absurd. Just because Joe pops out to the SS 300 times a year instead of striking out more often doesn't make those outs any better.

At least St. Crede gets the bat on the ball. LOL.

Offense is not the only thing at question here, defense is perhaps even more important out of your 3B.

The fact is Joe is here and Fields is not. Period.
I really hope that Joe makes all of you eat some crow.

jabrch
03-25-2008, 05:53 PM
Yes...a guy with a career line of 259/305/446, a surgically repaired back, less than one year left on his contract, and Scott Boras as his agent is sure to be quite valuable as the year goes on. :rolleyes:


Doesn't that depend entirely on how he plays?

Frontman
03-25-2008, 05:56 PM
:bandance::bandance::bandance:
:gulp::gulp::gulp:
:):):)

Joe Crede! Yes!

An enemic batting average of .170 heading into the regular season is good news to you?

It was inevitable, because noone wants Joe now, but it still POes me that Fields, OUR FUTURE for the club, will use up an option and have to play second fiddle to the guy with his bags packed and marking the days off on the calendar until he's a free agent.

oeo
03-25-2008, 05:57 PM
And IIRC, Anderson had a great spring in '06....better than Crede. How well did that work out?

They didn't let him play. :whiner:

FedEx227
03-25-2008, 05:57 PM
I wonder how KW approaches teams looking to trade Crede.

Since we can't get "ENOUGH VALUE" for him.

KW: hey, want this guy who really wasn't good offensively before back surgery, who has a 1-year deal and had an awful spring both defensively and at the plate?

spiffie
03-25-2008, 05:57 PM
Doesn't that depend entirely on how he plays?
Even if he comes out tearing the cover off the ball he's still 30 years old, with 1.5 good seasons in his career, in the last few months of a contract, repped by Scott Boras and thus certain to hit the FA market looking for an expensive long-term deal because he's "clutch". The only way he would have any really significant value is if he comes out and hits 350/400/650 for the first three months.

Frontman
03-25-2008, 05:59 PM
I wonder how KW approaches teams looking to trade Crede.

Since we can't get "ENOUGH VALUE" for him.
KW: hey, want this guy who really wasn't good offensively before back surgery, who has a 1-year deal and had an awful spring both defensively and at the plate?



Look how that same sales pitch worked for the aging pitcher who seemed to have lost his stuff last season. He couldn't move Contreras, he isn't going to be able to move Crede.

spiffie
03-25-2008, 06:01 PM
At least St. Crede gets the bat on the ball. LOL.

Offense is not the only thing at question here, defense is perhaps even more important out of your 3B.

The fact is Joe is here and Fields is not. Period.
I really hope that Joe makes all of you eat some crow.
Getting the bat on the ball is not something to applaud unless said ball tends to go somewhere useful.

And as much as people would love to build a team ready to contend in the NL West circa 1983, declaring 3-4 spots on the field to be ones where the offense doesn't matter is a surefire way to find your team getting in their last rounds of golf for the year during October.

Domeshot17
03-25-2008, 06:05 PM
Fields outplayed Crede this spring, another unfair battle IMO. I just hate how Kenny and Ozzie talk about competition this spring, and when the under dogs win, they still demote them. I like Joe Crede,and I get he wants to test free agency, so at the end of the day my loyalty to him runs as deep as his to the Sox. He better have a hell of a contract year to keep the 35 home run potential of Fields in triple A. If he regresses to his usual 250-19-60 self over 500 at bats, its going to be a long year.

Frontman
03-25-2008, 06:06 PM
Fields outplayed Crede this spring, another unfair battle IMO. I just hate how Kenny and Ozzie talk about competition this spring, and when the under dogs win, they still demote them. I like Joe Crede,and I get he wants to test free agency, so at the end of the day my loyalty to him runs as deep as his to the Sox. He better have a hell of a contract year to keep the 35 home run potential of Fields in triple A. If he regresses to his usual 250-19-60 self over 500 at bats, its going to be a long year.

I can see him getting booed if he does. Not that I boo, as I don't; but fans will turn on him quickly if he's stinking it up at the plate (looks at ST stats, sees that only Toby Hall has a worse BA on the major league roster.)

Expect boos, and lots of them.

oeo
03-25-2008, 06:08 PM
I can see him getting booed if he does. Not that I boo, as I don't; but fans will turn on him quickly if he's stinking it up at the plate (looks at ST stats, sees that only Toby Hall has a worse BA on the major league roster.)

Expect boos, and lots of them.

Are you kidding me? Crede is right up there with Rowand in terms of cult heroes. Just imagine if Crede gets traded to the Giants...some fans might just change allegiances.

FedEx227
03-25-2008, 06:11 PM
Are you kidding me? Crede is right up there with Rowand in terms of cult heroes. Just imagine if Crede gets traded to the Giants...some fans might just change allegiances.

Joe Crede got three times the reaction Fields did when I saw them in Tucson. Fields was DHing vs. Colorado. I'm not expecting any boos.

Doubt you hear any for Uribe either.

Rocky Soprano
03-25-2008, 06:13 PM
Getting the bat on the ball is not something to applaud unless said ball tends to go somewhere useful.



That part of my comment was a joke.

Frontman
03-25-2008, 06:13 PM
Are you kidding me? Crede is right up there with Rowand in terms of cult heroes. Just imagine if Crede gets traded to the Giants...some fans might just change allegiances.

The fans who still live the glow of 2005 think that none of those players can do no wrong. But those with half a brain and the ability to read can see that some have lost their stuff, some have chased the money, some will retire. I for one want another title.

If Joe can shake it off and play like he did in 2005/2006 this season? Keep him the rest of the season. But from what I've seen, I see a player who still needs time, he's not ready to be back playing, and we the fans will have to put up with sub-par play from him until he gets it back together, if he can.

Only the stupid cling to the past glories as a reason to keep a guy past his time.

Rocky Soprano
03-25-2008, 06:15 PM
An enemic batting average of .170 heading into the regular season is good news to you?

It was inevitable, because noone wants Joe now, but it still POes me that Fields, OUR FUTURE for the club, will use up an option and have to play second fiddle to the guy with his bags packed and marking the days off on the calendar until he's a free agent.

Keep sipping that Fields Kool Aid.

If batting average is all that matters in spring training, I could only imagine how many of your star players would start the season in the bigs.

If Fields is OUR FUTURE, I am really scared for what is to come.

OUR FUTURE? Give me a freaking break!

spiffie
03-25-2008, 06:17 PM
That part of my comment was a joke.
Ah....well it sounded like something Crede fans would say!!!! :redface:

Frontman
03-25-2008, 06:17 PM
Keep sipping that Fields Kool Aid.

If batting average is all that matters in spring training, I could only imagine how many of your star players would start the season in the bigs.

If Fields is OUR FUTURE, I am really scared for what is to come.

OUR FUTURE? Give me a freaking break!

So, you think we should trade Fields? Because if you do, who will play 3rd in 2009? It's certainly not going to be your boy, as he doesn't work for his agent, his agent works for him.

That's right. Working on getting him out of Chicago for big money.

soltrain21
03-25-2008, 06:18 PM
Keep sipping that Fields Kool Aid.

If batting average is all that matters in spring training, I could only imagine how many of your star players would start the season in the bigs.

If Fields is OUR FUTURE, I am really scared for what is to come.

OUR FUTURE? Give me a freaking break!

He is our future 3b, which I do believe would entail being part of "the future." I don't think "the future" rests on one player, but you can overreact to make your argument, sure.

FedEx227
03-25-2008, 06:19 PM
So, you think we should trade Fields? Because if you do, who will play 3rd in 2009? It's certainly not going to be your boy, as he doesn't work for his agent, his agent works for him.

That's right. Working on getting him out of Chicago for big money.

http://soxpride.mlblogs.com/sox_pride/images/farmer.jpg
"If only you people would listen to me..."

kittle42
03-25-2008, 06:19 PM
And as much as people would love to build a team ready to contend in the NL West circa 1983, declaring 3-4 spots on the field to be ones where the offense doesn't matter is a surefire way to find your team getting in their last rounds of golf for the year during October.

I was waiting to make this exact point. How many teams sacrifice any position offensively these days, other than catcher somewhat?

Frontman
03-25-2008, 06:20 PM
http://soxpride.mlblogs.com/sox_pride/images/farmer.jpg
"If only you people would listen to me..."

That's the problem with the broadcast. Noone wants to listen to Farmio........

Domeshot17
03-25-2008, 06:21 PM
So, you think we should trade Fields? Because if you do, who will play 3rd in 2009? It's certainly not going to be your boy, as he doesn't work for his agent, his agent works for him.

That's right. Working on getting him out of Chicago for big money.

Some people can't accept reality. These people are the same ones clamoring spring means nothing, Joe is clutch, the fact he hit below .200 as we fell out of a playoff race means nothing. He will still fire Scott Boras to stay! He won't leave us, he said so! He isn't playing the say the right thing game! His back is 100% fine, he can make diving catches still, back surgery doesn't impact reaction! Who cares if he can't hit, Augie Ojeda has a job!

Frontman
03-25-2008, 06:21 PM
He is our future 3b, which I do believe would entail being part of "the future." I don't think "the future" rests on one player, but you can overreact to make your argument, sure.

I said "our" future. Should of said "future starting 3rd baseman" so that Rocky couldn't focus on the "our" part.

oeo
03-25-2008, 06:22 PM
Keep sipping that Fields Kool Aid.

If batting average is all that matters in spring training, I could only imagine how many of your star players would start the season in the bigs.

If Fields is OUR FUTURE, I am really scared for what is to come.

OUR FUTURE? Give me a freaking break!

I'm embarrassed for you after writing this post.

Frontman
03-25-2008, 06:24 PM
ST stats don't matter.


Unless of course the player is trying to prove he's healthy and at 100%.

Oh, wait; that doesn't apply to Joe Crede, 'cuz he's 'clutch.'

Domeshot17
03-25-2008, 06:26 PM
ST stats don't matter.


Unless of course the player is trying to prove he's healthy and at 100%.

Oh, wait; that doesn't apply to Joe Crede, 'cuz he's 'clutch.'

The bottom line and truth is Crede is here because he has a 5.1 million dollar contract and played so incredibly ****ty in spring training no other team has any interest in him. Now the only chance Kenny has to deal him is if he can get a good month or 2 out of him. He did not earn a job, he does not give us the best chance to win, but we have to play him.

Frontman
03-25-2008, 06:28 PM
The bottom line and truth is Crede is here because he has a 5.1 million dollar contract and played so incredibly ****ty in spring training no other team has any interest in him. Now the only chance Kenny has to deal him is if he can get a good month or 2 out of him. He did not earn a job, he does not give us the best chance to win, but we have to play him.

Doesn't mean I have to be happy about it, but he's the starting 3rd baseman.

Hope the hell that Rocky is right and he comes out firing on all barrels, but I'm not holding onto hope that he will.

Domeshot17
03-25-2008, 06:30 PM
Doesn't mean I have to be happy about it, but he's the starting 3rd baseman.

Hope the hell that Rocky is right and he comes out firing on all barrels, but I'm not holding onto hope that he will.

Agreed. Like I said, I don't have a ton of respect for Crede right now mostly because he has proven to not be a player of his word. However, I will cheer for everyone on the field to succeed because ultimately if they do the team does. He better have a great contract year.

Elephant
03-25-2008, 06:32 PM
So somehow after all the offseason shuffles and movement and everything, we're going into opening day with the sum total of our changes being to add Orlando Cabrera and Nick Swisher, and subtract Jon Garland. And we're expecting that to somehow add up to the 20+ wins needed to improve for a playoff berth? Yes I know we have to play the games that aren't played on paper intangiblesjustlike2005undertheradardarkcloud. But really, when you look at it that way, its hard to expect much out of them.

And yes, I know we signed bullpen guys...hopefully they'll look better once the regular season starts.

Cabrera + Swisher = possibly > Garland. :shrug:

It's not like Garland was a diamond in the rough or anything.

Other factors:

-Much improved bullpen. No, you can't really predict a bullpen, but the possibility is at least there.

-All our best hitters can't suck again can they?

I think we're at least due for a break. I mean everyone was terrible last year. That was not a 90 loss team talent wise. If anything, the median is .500 and they could probably swing 10 games either way depending on how right things go.

I also think Cleveland and Detroit are gonna disappoint everyone. Well, not me. I'll be delighted!

Optipessimism
03-25-2008, 07:00 PM
Let's see...

Crede at third, Uribe starting in the infield, a more or less useless back-up catcher, still putting way too much stock in an injury-prone lead-off grinder with no power or reasonable defensive skills, an iffy at best rotation 3-5, not even a halfway decent long reliever because it's apparently not important, and a promise from the organization that an injection of intangibles such as "attitude," "small-ball," "leadership," and "swagger" will go far in overcoming the lack of talent on the field...

This is great! It sounds just like an All-Star team of early season Sox deficiencies from 2003-2007. Now if only we can pick up a horrid closer like Koch we'll be right on track for a KW-mandated selection of Jordan Danks at no. 8.

It's Time
03-25-2008, 07:42 PM
Joe is the better player at this point. I have no problem with the move. That said, if Crede gets off to a slow start, we'll see Fields sooner then later.

Mohoney
03-25-2008, 07:57 PM
Better bullpen, no Erstad, no Mackowiak...

Both guys could have been valuable if they were used the right way as bench players. I'm not going to blame either one of them for mistakes the manager made with them.

Mackowiak could have played some 3B and corner OF, and Erstad could have played some 1B and CF. Neither one of them should have been starting, and I don't think Kenny's intent when he brought them in was to have them start.

Rocky Soprano
03-25-2008, 08:06 PM
I said "our" future. Should of said "future starting 3rd baseman" so that Rocky couldn't focus on the "our" part.

You said, OUR FUTURE, and now you are trying to back paddle.
I know that more than likely he is our future 3rd baseman. And if it comes to happen I want him to succeed. But right now Crede is the right man for the job. If he is healthy and plays great ball, then you can turn around and trade him for something of value. Then your "savior" can have the job. :D:

Now if he Crede plays great ball and the Sox can get him to sign an extension and they trade Fields, I will be even happier.

gogosox16
03-25-2008, 08:12 PM
You said, OUR FUTURE, and now you are trying to back paddle.
I know that more than likely he is our future 3rd baseman. And if it comes to happen I want him to succeed. But right now Crede is the right man for the job. If he is healthy and plays great ball, then you can turn around and trade him for something of value. Then your "savior" can have the job. :D:

Now if he Crede plays great ball and the Sox can get him to sign an extension and they trade Fields, I will be even happier.
in all likely hood a hitter who is coming off back surgery and is hitting below .200 in ST is not the right man for the job. Yes it is ST but we have another player who is the future, that can stay healthy and also has proven he can put up big #'s. But the problem is we have to play him because first off, teams aren't biting, and he needs to prove himself (Counter argument to myself:smile:). Health is the biggest issue with Joe, If he can stay healthy, then proves he is capable of playing and staying healthy, then teams will start biting and that will give us the chance to give the job back to Josh.

ksimpson14
03-25-2008, 08:13 PM
No problem here. No way did I want a platoon, him rotting on the bench is no better for his development than playing in AAA. Could you imagine all the arguments on the better matchups depending on pitcher, and all that crap. Work on those K's and defense son.

Mohoney
03-25-2008, 08:26 PM
An enemic batting average of .170 heading into the regular season is good news to you?

It was inevitable, because noone wants Joe now, but it still POes me that Fields, OUR FUTURE for the club, will use up an option and have to play second fiddle to the guy with his bags packed and marking the days off on the calendar until he's a free agent.

Just a few questions:

Fields won't need options in 2009 and beyond, so why does burning an option matter?

In addition, wouldn't burning an option be more beneficial to the organization than Fields accruing Major League service time?

It seems to me that: Crede's healthy enough to play, he's already under contract for this year, and there was nothing worthwhile to be obtained in a trade. So why not save a year on Fields so we can have 3B solidified even longer?

gogosox16
03-25-2008, 08:29 PM
Just a few questions:

Fields won't need options in 2009 and beyond, so why does burning an option matter?

In addition, wouldn't burning an option be more beneficial to the organization than Fields accruing Major League service time?

It seems to me that: Crede's healthy enough to play, he's already under contract for this year, and there was nothing worthwhile to be obtained in a trade. So why not save a year on Fields so we can have 3B solidified even longer?
I like that post a lot, we already have to pay Crede his money while, it's not like Fields doesn't have any options. It just gives the Sox another year with him before he can hit the open market. Very nice post

Frontman
03-25-2008, 08:34 PM
Just a few questions:

Fields won't need options in 2009 and beyond, so why does burning an option matter?

In addition, wouldn't burning an option be more beneficial to the organization than Fields accruing Major League service time?

It seems to me that: Crede's healthy enough to play, he's already under contract for this year, and there was nothing worthwhile to be obtained in a trade. So why not save a year on Fields so we can have 3B solidified even longer?

My point is that Crede could of easily started on the DL in AAA on a rehab, then depending on how he performed there, then the Sox could of optioned Fields back if need be. If Joe doesn't perform (which is my fear at this point) Fields would already be in place on the MLB roster.

Fields would do better in improving by putting him up against actual MLB pitchers.

gogosox16
03-25-2008, 08:37 PM
My point is that Crede could of easily started on the DL in AAA on a rehab, then depending on how he performed there, then the Sox could of optioned Fields back if need be. If Joe doesn't perform (which is my fear at this point) Fields would already be in place on the MLB roster.

Fields would do better in improving by putting him up against actual MLB pitchers.
Yes but if I am right, that would take count for one of his abritration years and with him in AAA it gives him the chance to work on defense and other things that he needs to improve without any extra pressure to suceed right away for a major league team. He can work on things that he needs improvement and not feel like he's letting down the major league club

Lukin13
03-25-2008, 09:26 PM
The Crede supporters have ignored my point about the inevitable "days off" for Joe.

If you value Joe's defense so much (and I do buy this), what does having Pablo Ozuna start a game or two a week do to the overall defensive performance of our third baseman?

champagne030
03-25-2008, 09:44 PM
Fields would do better in improving by putting him up against actual MLB pitchers.

Maybe at the plate, but I'd rather he spent time in AAA working on improving his poor defensive skills. :shrug:

soltrain21
03-25-2008, 09:47 PM
The Crede supporters have ignored my point about the inevitable "days off" for Joe.

If you value Joe's defense so much (and I do buy this), what does having Pablo Ozuna start a game or two a week do to the overall defensive performance of our third baseman?

I think Juan will see time at third

chisoxmike
03-25-2008, 10:59 PM
I think Juan will see time at third

Then we'll really be ****ed.

This team is in total disarray right now its not even funny. They have a lot of players playing out of position and basically aren't very good. And we're paying good money to watch it.

TDog
03-25-2008, 11:01 PM
He struck out 125 times in 373 AB's last year...that's an average of almost 1 K per 3 AB's. But he hit 23 homers, so that makes up for the K's and iffy defense. Meanwhile, Crede hasn't struck out 100 times in any season at the major league level. I just don't understand why having Crede at 3rd is the end of life as we know it. :dunno:

I don't have time to read through this entire thread, and I'm sorry if I'm missing any comment on this point, but it is an excellent point. If Fields had hit .330 to go along with the home runs, the strike outs wouldn't be such a glaring concern. I seriously question that he will be the hitter here many expect, because he is going to have to make more contact. The Sox already have better hitters who are big strikeout guys in Thome and Swisher. If Fields learns to make more contact, he probably won't hit as many home runs.

But I have probably made that point before. And I was flamed a couple of months ago for posting that Fields would probably begin the season in AAA.

Frontman
03-25-2008, 11:14 PM
You said, OUR FUTURE, and now you are trying to back paddle.

No, just pointing out your hang up on one word. Then again, you're hung up on Crede being "clutch" (which he wasn't last year, and really didn't shine on through to help the Sox into the post season in 2006, but don't bring facts up.)


I know that more than likely he is our future 3rd baseman.

Which is more than we can say about Joe, who wants out of Chicago.


And if it comes to happen I want him to succeed. But right now Crede is the right man for the job.

Your opinion based on what? His stats from 2 years ago.


If he is healthy and plays great ball, then you can turn around and trade him for something of value. Then your "savior" can have the job. :D:

Big if. And he isn't healthy. He can't swing like he used to and couldn't get his timing down in a month and a half of facing live pitching.


Now if he Crede plays great ball and the Sox can get him to sign an extension and they trade Fields, I will be even happier.

What part of the Sox offering and Boras saying no is so hard to understand? Boras has said that Joe isn't interested in an extension, he wants to test Free Agency; so stop living this dream that all of a sudden Joe will sign with the Sox.

Joe can join Aaron Rowand in the overpaid/under perform department soon. The sooner, the better.

lukeman89
03-26-2008, 02:24 AM
why cant fields play 2b?

Nellie_Fox
03-26-2008, 02:43 AM
why cant fields play 2b?Do you understand the difference between the requirements of third and second? Third requires quick reflexes, but almost no range. It also requires an above average throwing arm.

Second requires considerable range, but not so much of a throwing arm. They are very different positions. Some people can play both, but not many, and those who can are usually "utility" guys, not starters.

TDog
03-26-2008, 03:13 AM
Do you understand the difference between the requirements of third and second? Third requires quick reflexes, but almost no range. It also requires an above average throwing arm.

Second requires considerable range, but not so much of a throwing arm. They are very different positions. Some people can play both, but not many, and those who can are usually "utility" guys, not starters.

Then you have players like Jorge Orta who played both,* but was able to play neither.


*He also incompetently played shortstop -- and not in a utility role. He started the 1972 home opener at short, the 1973 opener at second and the 1976 home opener at third. The feeling was that he could hit well enough that his bad defense wouldn't matter.

They were wrong.

lukeman89
03-26-2008, 03:44 AM
Do you understand the difference between the requirements of third and second? Third requires quick reflexes, but almost no range. It also requires an above average throwing arm.

Second requires considerable range, but not so much of a throwing arm. They are very different positions. Some people can play both, but not many, and those who can are usually "utility" guys, not starters.

well it seems to me if the club is willing to try him out in left field, where i think range plays a much bigger factor than at 2nd base, then why not try him out at second base. if he's as natural of an athlete as some of the people make him out to be, he shouldnt suck too much.

MISoxfan
03-26-2008, 06:24 AM
So many people twisting the facts in this thread. I want Josh at third and Joe traded, but just making up stats in order to convince everyone, what good does that do? Lets hope Joe and Uribe come out strong and we can move them for something worthwhile.

Player A:
-Will hit 35 homers
-Drive in 90
-Poor Defensively but still fairly "raw"
-Future of the ballclub

Player B:
-Will hit 15 homers
-Drive in 60
-Great Defensively, but will split time with ****ing Pablo Ozuna who will in turn revert the Sox back to BAD defensively at third overall
-Gone by fall


Ya projected over 574 AB's Player A projects to hit 35 home runs and drive in 101 runs. Lets project Player B over 562 AB's (I doubt Player A will reach 574 and that Player B will reach 562).

Player B
-Will hit 25 homers
-Drive in 85


They absolutely contributed to his bad year last year. But you're forgetting the other years we've had him.

2002 I won't count, he struggled but he was still new, limited at-bats, etc.

2003: .261/.308/.433
2004: .239/.299/.418
2005: .252/.303/.454
2006: .283/.323/.506

Joe had 200 at bats in 2002 and hit .285 with 12 HRS. (Btw that translates to 22.38 HRs over the 373 ABs Josh had in his first extended season.) This one I really don't get. You were either looking at his stats or have an amazing memory. Then you saw his 2002 and decided to omit some of Joe's most productive at-bats, and then say that he struggled during that time in order to further bury him? You must have meant the 50 at bats in 2001. He hit poorly then, just like Fields in '06.
And Josh Fields is better than Crede was when he was at the point Fields is at. Needless to say.

Based on what, his lower BA, OBP, or SLG than Joe's first extended period in in the bigs? Maybe its Josh's 101 OPS+ vs 2002 Joe's 113.

If he regresses to his usual 250-19-60 self over 500 at bats, its going to be a long year.

250-19-60 or .259-25-85, but don't let facts get in the way of a good argument. Well I guess you did say only 500 at bats, so maybe .259-22-75

I still really want Fields up here. I want 2 solid months out of Crede and Uribe and then trade them. Free up some money and acquire something worthwhile.

Lukin13
03-26-2008, 07:48 AM
So many people twisting the facts in this thread. I want Josh at third and Joe traded, but just making up stats in order to convince everyone, what good does that do? Lets hope Joe and Uribe come out strong and we can move them for something worthwhile.


Ya projected over 574 AB's Player A projects to hit 35 home runs and drive in 101 runs. Lets project Player B over 562 AB's (I doubt Player A will reach 574 and that Player B will reach 562).

Player B
-Will hit 25 homers
-Drive in 85




I didn't say anything about a number of at bats, read it again before you quote me.

None of the Crede supporters have had any trouble with my projected stats, which makes it VERY hard for me to understand why they still favor Crede.

MISoxfan
03-26-2008, 08:17 AM
If you're assuming that he's still injured and won't be able to play then we'll have to cut our losses and bring up Fields. However if he isn't we can still get some good baseball out of him and something in return as well.

assrevolution
03-26-2008, 09:55 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Sox trade Crede late in the season to a contender for a few pitching propsects. That's really the best case scenario, outside of Joe having a career year and leading the Sox to the World Series. What's the best deal we can expect for Crede? No one's going to trade a proven starter.

ChiTownTrojan
03-26-2008, 10:04 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Sox trade Crede late in the season to a contender for a few pitching propsects. That's really the best case scenario, outside of Joe having a career year and leading the Sox to the World Series. What's the best deal we can expect for Crede? No one's going to trade a proven starter.
One thing I don't understand about this mess.... apparently no GM in MLB is willing to trade anything for Crede right now. So how is Boras going to swing some monster deal next offseason, if none of the GMs want him? Hope for a dumb rookie GM?

spiffie
03-26-2008, 10:11 AM
One thing I don't understand about this mess.... apparently no GM in MLB is willing to trade anything for Crede right now. So how is Boras going to swing some monster deal next offseason, if none of the GMs want him? Hope for a dumb rookie GM?
A couple reasons why Joe is still likely to get a big contract despite not being able to be traded for:

1. He will likely be better than he was in 2007. Sure that won't count for much, but at least Boras will be able to sell that he has improved, and use that to infer that in 2009 Joe should be back to his 2006 form.

2. Money is less rare than good prospects. MLB has money to burn right now. 10-12 million isn't what it used to be a few years ago. If you get stuck with a bad contract, oh well you hope you can find a way to get some value. If you trade Tim Lincecum for Joe Crede, and Crede doesn't return to 2006 form, and Lincecum becomes a good pitcher, that sort of thing makes GM's into ex-GM's.

3. GM's overvalue players sometimes too. Look at this board, where a goodly number of people have elevated a good fielding 250 hitting 3B into a perennial all-star, and throw around the word "clutch" as though it means more than that Joe had 3 big hits in a 6 week span in 2005. We have no idea what the Sox have been offered for Crede, but all the chatter seems to imply Kenny Williams is driving a hard bargain. And when you think about point #2, it makes it hard to deal for Crede.

4. Teams need to sell tickets. Free agent acquisitions are the easiest way to tell your fanbase you care about winning. Joe Crede right now won't sell tickets. But if Joe has a decent year, and I expect he will probably be around his career line this year, you can sell him to a fanbase wrapped in memories of 2005. So when you have 29 GM's all trying to convince their fanbase that the next year's result will be better than last year, even a decent player with a few big hits can become "the missing piece" in a way that is hard to sell in mid-March.

jabrch
03-26-2008, 10:48 AM
So how is Boras going to swing some monster deal next offseason

I doubt he gets a MONSTER deal, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him get a good deal. He is still a + glove, a + arm with + range at 3B. he's still got 20-25 HR power. He just won't have a ton of good ABs over the course of a season and he is an injury risk.

If he comes up looking good this year, someone might give him 3/25 or something.

FedEx227
03-26-2008, 12:06 PM
Joe had 200 at bats in 2002 and hit .285 with 12 HRS. (Btw that translates to 22.38 HRs over the 373 ABs Josh had in his first extended season.) This one I really don't get. You were either looking at his stats or have an amazing memory. Then you saw his 2002 and decided to omit some of Joe's most productive at-bats, and then say that he struggled during that time in order to further bury him? You must have meant the 50 at bats in 2001. He hit poorly then, just like Fields in '06.

I didn't put it in because 200 AB are not enough to translate to an entire career and that seems right because he never got near those numbers until 2008. I didn't do it to bury him, I didn't put them in because it wouldn't make sense. I'm not going to consider Richar's AB from last year his career norm, just as I wouldn't expect Crede's 2002 to be his career norm.

rdivaldi
03-26-2008, 12:11 PM
They have a lot of players playing out of position and basically aren't very good.

:scratch:

Who's playing out of position again?

oeo
03-26-2008, 12:13 PM
:scratch:

Who's playing out of position again?

I guess Uribe is considered 'a lot.' He is pretty big.

rdivaldi
03-26-2008, 12:19 PM
I guess Uribe is considered 'a lot.' He is pretty big.

Heh, heh. But the man can still cover ground on defense, I remember him playing very well at second in 2004.

MISoxfan
03-26-2008, 10:33 PM
I didn't put it in because 200 AB are not enough to translate to an entire career and that seems right because he never got near those numbers until 2008. I didn't do it to bury him, I didn't put them in because it wouldn't make sense. I'm not going to consider Richar's AB from last year his career norm, just as I wouldn't expect Crede's 2002 to be his career norm.

Its not only that you didn't include them you also said, "2002 I won't count, he struggled but he was still new, limited at-bats, etc." Pointing out that he struggled and making it sound like you're doing him a favor by not counting them because he was still new.