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View Full Version : Giant fans DO NOT WANT Joe Crede


Gammons Peter
03-24-2008, 11:53 AM
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2008/3/24/332372/weighing-in-on-the-big-mov

gotta love the "Joe Crede Trade Threat Level" warning system.

I would love to see it go "Severe"

Rocky Soprano
03-24-2008, 12:00 PM
And I DO NOT WANT to trade them Joe Crede.

spiffie
03-24-2008, 12:01 PM
That is quality. Anytime they want to raise it to Severe, or even High would be fine with me.

skottyj242
03-24-2008, 12:07 PM
Trade Crede, put Cabrera at third and have Dye play short.

Rocky Soprano
03-24-2008, 12:13 PM
Trade Crede, put Cabrerra at third and have Dye play short.

And Konerko at CF!

FedEx227
03-24-2008, 12:20 PM
Trade Crede, put Cabrerra at third and have Dye play short.

http://www.franksart.net/images/tearoom/cabrerra_small.jpg
???

DumpJerry
03-24-2008, 12:22 PM
These are the same tools who cheered Baroid.

areilly
03-24-2008, 12:23 PM
These are the same tools who cheered Baroid.

True, but if the positions were reversed, would YOU trade for Crede?

doublem23
03-24-2008, 12:38 PM
Luckily none of these guys have their fingers on the button.

rdwj
03-24-2008, 12:43 PM
In their defense, Joe is the type of player you have to watch to really understand his value. I'm sure any fans that get to watch him play will quickly change their minds.

PolishPower83
03-24-2008, 01:00 PM
Joe is the type of player you have to watch to really understand his value. I'm sure any fans that get to watch him play will quickly change their minds.

I agree. Some of those comments were HARSH! I doubt fans out there have paid much attention to Crede short of our World Series run. They'll come around on Crede just like a lot of Sox fans did.

LoveYourSuit
03-24-2008, 01:00 PM
And I DO NOT WANT to trade them Joe Crede.


Why not?

There is a guy on our roster right now who is better than him and not a health question mark?

Rocky Soprano
03-24-2008, 01:02 PM
Why not?

There is a guy on our roster right now who is better than him and not a health question mark?

There are a few guys on the roster right now that are better than Joe, Fields is not one of those guys though. :smile:

rdwj
03-24-2008, 01:03 PM
Why not?

There is a guy on our roster right now who is better than him and not a health question mark?

There is a better 3rd baseman on the team? Who? Joe is one of the finest in all of baseball.

kittle42
03-24-2008, 01:08 PM
They already had a so-so offensive 3B with Feliz. How long do SF fans have to suffer!?

LoveYourSuit
03-24-2008, 01:14 PM
There is a better 3rd baseman on the team? Who? Joe is one of the finest in all of baseball.


Joe WAS one of the finest before last year.

Now he is a rehab project.

Back surgery is a big deal folks.

Gammons Peter
03-24-2008, 01:35 PM
Joe WAS one of the finest before last year.

Now he is a rehab project.

Back surgery is a big deal folks.

Not really a fan of people who call other people "folks" when trying to make a point. It's condescending when Ditka uses it and it's condescending when you use it.

kittle42
03-24-2008, 01:40 PM
Not really a fan of people who call other people "folks" when trying to make a point. It's condescending when Ditka uses it and it's condescending when you use it.

What about Ed Farmer?

TheVulture
03-24-2008, 01:41 PM
Not really a fan of people who call other people "folks" when trying to make a point. It's condescending when Ditka uses it and it's condescending when you use it.

Duly noted - Gammons Peter feels it's condescending to use the word "folks" - alert the internetz!!!

Gammons Peter
03-24-2008, 01:44 PM
What about Ed Farmer?

ha, good one. It don't get much more condescending than Farmio

LoveYourSuit
03-24-2008, 01:45 PM
Not really a fan of people who call other people "folks" when trying to make a point. It's condescending when Ditka uses it and it's condescending when you use it.

Not really a fan of people who point this out.

sox1970
03-24-2008, 01:52 PM
Not really a fan of people who call other people "folks" when trying to make a point. It's condescending when Ditka uses it and it's condescending when you use it.

Ditka is partial to "Gang..."

Gammons Peter
03-24-2008, 01:55 PM
Ditka is partial to "Gang..."


and red wine.....

http://chicagoist.com/attachments/chicagoist_chuck/2006_11_ditka.jpg

Vestigio
03-24-2008, 02:06 PM
They already had a so-so offensive 3B with Feliz. How long do SF fans have to suffer!?

Feliz is now with the Phils...

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=150268

kittle42
03-24-2008, 02:16 PM
Feliz is now with the Phils...

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=150268

Hence the use of the past tense. :tongue:

ksimpson14
03-24-2008, 02:27 PM
Not surprising, stathead people probably think he sucks, but he's a nice piece to a team, gold glove caliber, has a decent bat, will hit a few HR's, and won't crap his pants in a big spot. Don't need an elite player at every position

Vestigio
03-24-2008, 02:35 PM
Hence the use of the past tense. :tongue:

Ah...Sorry about that.

Chipol
03-24-2008, 02:39 PM
A recent news article out here pointed out that the issue is that the Giants, as currently configured, have a good chance to be the worst team in the NL. With Joe, they are still a good possibility for worst. So, why should they trade away any of their future?

LoveYourSuit
03-24-2008, 02:53 PM
A recent news article out here pointed out that the issue is that the Giants, as currently configured, have a good chance to be the worst team in the NL. With Joe, they are still a good possibility for worst. So, why should they trade away any of their future?


Agree 100%. It's not like he is the one guy they need to put them over the top of doing anything good this year.

Rockin Robin
03-24-2008, 03:44 PM
and red wine.....

http://chicagoist.com/attachments/chicagoist_chuck/2006_11_ditka.jpg

I know he'll do pretty much anything for a buck, but it's disappointing to see he picked up a second gig as the Western Kentucky Hilltoppers mascot.

fquaye149
03-24-2008, 03:58 PM
There is a better 3rd baseman on the team? Who? Joe is one of the finest in all of baseball.

He WAS one of the finest DEFENDERS in baseball.

But we can change that to IS one of the FINEST in baseball if you want...

fquaye149
03-24-2008, 04:00 PM
Not surprising, stathead people probably think he sucks, but he's a nice piece to a team, gold glove caliber, has a decent bat, will hit a few HR's, and won't crap his pants in a big spot. Don't need an elite player at every position

It's not about stats. Joe was clutch and he played great D. Remember the other 150 games a year when he wasn't being clutch? Instead he was just being a mediocre, no-speed line drive hitter.

You can get that fact from stats or from watching the games. Read through any number of threads about Crede pre-2005: he was a frustrating player to watch play despite his handful of awesomely clutch hits.

After 2005 he was no great shakes either.

And hell, he wasn't even that great in 2005, stats or no stats

sox1970
03-24-2008, 04:02 PM
And hell, he wasn't even that great in 2005, stats or no stats

September 20th on he was ok. :cool:

fquaye149
03-24-2008, 04:04 PM
September 20th on he was ok. :cool:

Joe had a ****load of awesomely clutch moments. I'm glad he was on the team and he was one of my favorite players. Still is.

DSpivack
03-24-2008, 06:14 PM
Not surprising, stathead people probably think he sucks, but he's a nice piece to a team, gold glove caliber, has a decent bat, will hit a few HR's, and won't crap his pants in a big spot. Don't need an elite player at every position

He'd probably be their #3 or #4 hitter. :o:

Frontman
03-24-2008, 06:22 PM
True, but if the positions were reversed, would YOU trade for Crede?

Let's see:

1. Crede is coming off of back surgery, but not the recommended level of surgery to prevent this type of problem arising again.

2. His agent is Scott Boras.

3. He hasn't proven anything at the plate in 4 of the 5 weeks in Spring Training.

4. Scott Boras.

5. He's shown contempt for his current team and GM for "it not being him or Scott Boras" that is holding up negotiations.

So, no; I wouldn't trade for Crede right now. Especially if I had a servicable 3rd baseman.

While I will never call him a bum, I'm not going to miss him when the time comes. For the amount of outpouring of support this fanbase and the team gave him, he could at least have the decency to either talk a deal with the Sox, be good to his word and finally fire his agent, or at the very least agree to a rehab assignment so he can finally learn how to swing a bat again.

But no, the Sox can have YET ANOTHER sure-fire 1-2-3 yer out batter, to put in front of Juan Uribe, while Joe works on fine tuning his swing so he can go play elsewhere. That's the part that POes me to no end. He doesn't want to stay, but we're stuck with him at 3rd so he can showcase his improvement.

PalehosePlanet
03-24-2008, 06:44 PM
But no, the Sox can have YET ANOTHER sure-fire 1-2-3 yer out batter, to put in front of Juan Uribe, while Joe works on fine tuning his swing so he can go play elsewhere. That's the part that POes me to no end. He doesn't want to stay, but we're stuck with him at 3rd so he can showcase his improvement.

Absolutely right -- everything you said. He is not in our plans and he needs to go. It sickens me to my stomach that we have to send Fields down and hope that Joe can still play. We should've taken whatever anyone was offering for him for 2 reasons: 1) So he doesn't block Josh and 2) To free up 5 million off the books.

I just hope that when he's hitting in the .100's after about 3 weeks into the season we don't continue to foresake our season just so we can "showcase" Joe.

Right now he looks EXACTLY the way he looked last year before he ended up on the DL.

Frontman
03-24-2008, 09:27 PM
Absolutely right -- everything you said. He is not in our plans and he needs to go. It sickens me to my stomach that we have to send Fields down and hope that Joe can still play. We should've taken whatever anyone was offering for him for 2 reasons: 1) So he doesn't block Josh and 2) To free up 5 million off the books.

I just hope that when he's hitting in the .100's after about 3 weeks into the season we don't continue to foresake our season just so we can "showcase" Joe.

Right now he looks EXACTLY the way he looked last year before he ended up on the DL.

Don't get me wrong, I was fine with Joe starting the season on the major roster if he proved he could play at the level 2005/2006 Joe was.

But if he wasn't signed for a 4 million contract, the way he played this ST he wouldn't of made the MLB roster. He has been brutal this ST.

I will always have a special place in my heart for the 2005 players, but enough's enough already. Joe isn't staying. He doesn't want to stay. His agent doesn't want him to stay. And the Crede we've been seeing for the past month at the plate is far worse of a liability that Josh Fields is at 3rd defensively.

santo=dorf
03-24-2008, 11:36 PM
Dump Anderson and Owens and bring back Geoff Blum! His catch of a line drive at first at Yankee Stadium, the tricky slide in extra innings at Minnesota and the game 3 WS home run. Man that guy was clutch. One of the finest in the game.


2005.:cool:

Elephant
03-24-2008, 11:53 PM
Crede's very good at third when healthy and certainly one of the best, but he doesn't have any gold gloves. Sure it's a popularity contest but I mean if you're good enough, you'll get it and he hasn't gotten it. Ventura had no problem winning them. :shrug:

But more objectively, there are better arms out there and better line players out there.

It just doesn't make sense to keep him around when you have a young hitter like Fields waiting in the wings. Especially when you consider where the Sox are as a franchise:

Coming off a 90 loss season with a truly depleted farm system. Within that framework, their m.o. is to bench/demote their two most talented young players? Makes a lot of ****ing sense.

This org is actually starting to anger me.

TomBradley72
03-25-2008, 09:06 AM
I just don't see Fields as a "finished product" yet...his defense is pretty brutal....and he's projected to 175-200 strikeouts in a full season of ABs.

I don't think it's going to kill him or the franchise to work on those two parts of his game for a few months while Crede plays everyday at the big league level. If Crede shows that it's not "rust" from the injury...but he doesn't have it anymore...we can make our move then.

I don't agree with posts about Crede showing "contempt" for management or the fans. Have the White Sox ever made him a multi year offer? I don't agree with how he handled the surgery (should have had it immediately after the 2006 season...but that's a personal decision), but the guy has been one of the top 3rd baseman in the 100+ year history of the franchise, was completely clutch in the pennant race and post season in 2005 and had a great season in 2006 before the back trouble really set in. He also played with alot of pain in 2005 and 2006...he's shown alot of guts while wearing the White Sox uniform. It's one thing to let him go because we have a great prospect wating in the wings. It's another to rip a guy who has contrinbuted so much to the franchise and has been a class act the whole time he's been with the team.

Frontman
03-25-2008, 09:19 AM
I just don't see Fields as a "finished product" yet...his defense is pretty brutal....and he's projected to 175-200 strikeouts in a full season of ABs.

I'd rather watch a player struggle who will be here for a few years and deal with the growing pains instead of dealing with a player who will not return and his possible return to form. Even though he's not done it in 4 1/2 weeks of ST baseball. I'm sure it will all come back to him once opening day hits.....


I don't think it's going to kill him or the franchise to work on those two parts of his game for a few months while Crede plays everyday at the big league level. If Crede shows that it's not "rust" from the injury...but he doesn't have it anymore...we can make our move then.

Have you seen any sign that Crede still has it, other than a few dives at hit balls?


I don't agree with posts about Crede showing "contempt" for management or the fans.

To each their own, but I certainly heard him say it wasn't him or Scott holding up negotiations. Sounds like he was throwing Kenny and the Sox under the bus. Hence, contempt might not be the right word, but he certainly isn't being gracious or a team guy when he lays blame on the GM. (I also haven't said he's been disrespectful to the fans, just the organization that showed true concern at his overall health, not his baseball health. Kenny said he wanted to make sure Joe would be able to play with his kids and grandkids one day without long-term pain.)


Have the White Sox ever made him a multi year offer?

Yes. Boras has refused to talk every year for the past 3. That's also where the quote "the agent works for me, I don't work for my agent" came from. But according to Joe, it isn't Boras holding things up. Uh huh. Being eyerolling now. :rolleyes:


I don't agree with how he handled the surgery (should have had it immediately after the 2006 season...but that's a personal decision), but the guy has been one of the top 3rd baseman in the 100+ year history of the franchise, was completely clutch in the pennant race and post season in 2005 and had a great season in 2006 before the back trouble really set in. He also played with alot of pain in 2005 and 2006...he's shown alot of guts while wearing the White Sox uniform. It's one thing to let him go because we have a great prospect wating in the wings. It's another to rip a guy who has contrinbuted so much to the franchise and has been a class act the whole time he's been with the team.

Well, he has been classy up to this off season. How he's handled this situation proves that he's all talk, no show. "Show me the money."

As far as how he handled the surgery, he was more concerned on getting onto the field for his FA year versus fixing a serious injury for the long term. Joe has shown himself to be pretty selfish here, and its up to everyone else (the Sox, Kenny, the fans) to be more understanding and patient.

I just am POed that its on the Sox and their fans dime that he'll get to showcase his talent (or lack thereof, as he sure hasn't shown he can still hit) so he can get a big contract elsewhere.

areilly
03-25-2008, 10:30 AM
I just don't see Fields as a "finished product" yet...his defense is pretty brutal....and he's projected to 175-200 strikeouts in a full season of ABs.

That's the part the scares me about Fields, especially when the Sox already have two of the ten batters off last year's AL strikeout "leader"board. Ugh.

spiffie
03-25-2008, 10:35 AM
That's the part the scares me about Fields, especially when the Sox already have two of the ten batters off last year's AL strikeout "leader"board. Ugh.
And yet they also are both in the top 20 in OBP. Is it really that much better for you when Jim Thome hits a weak grounder into the shift than when he strikes out?

TomBradley72
03-25-2008, 10:46 AM
That's the part the scares me about Fields, especially when the Sox already have two of the ten batters off last year's AL strikeout "leader"board. Ugh.

The defense is a bigger concern for me right now. Fields at 3B, Owens or Swisher in CF, Ramirez learning how to play 2B, Dye slowing down in RF....we've come a long way from a team built around pitching and defense.

Our pitching doesn't have the talent to overcome the extra outs our defense will be giving up.

TheVulture
03-25-2008, 01:08 PM
Crede's very good at third when healthy and certainly one of the best, but he doesn't have any gold gloves. Sure it's a popularity contest but I mean if you're good enough, you'll get it and he hasn't gotten it. Ventura had no problem winning them. :shrug:


Uh, no. I can't believe someone would make this argument and it has nothing to do with Joe, though I do feel he is or was "gold glove caliber." The fact he or anyone else has or hasn't won a gg doesn't mean jack. Yes, if you win 10 gold gloves you're probably pretty good, but otherwise, it's meaningless to the argument of whether or to what extent a player can throw the leather.