PDA

View Full Version : Baines the next to be immortalized.


Sockinchisox
03-23-2008, 12:31 PM
Baines Sculpture (http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/03/sculpture-for-b.html)

eriqjaffe
03-23-2008, 12:54 PM
The statue is far more likely to talk your ear off. ;)

gobears1987
03-23-2008, 12:57 PM
Frank will be the next one if they wait a couple of years. I'm glad that Harold got his.

voodoochile
03-23-2008, 01:09 PM
Great News!

Haaarold definitely deserves it.

thomas35forever
03-23-2008, 01:10 PM
Good for Harold. I've heard stories of how clutch he was. I remember before he was traded in '97, I was at a game against KC where the Sox were trailing and he tied it up with a homer in the eighth inning. The Sox won in ten.

MarySwiss
03-23-2008, 01:13 PM
Can't wait to see it. It must have been difficult for the sculptor to capture his facial features, especially his eyes. They are so expressive.

Whitesox029
03-23-2008, 01:58 PM
Frank will be the next one if they wait a couple of years. I'm glad that Harold got his.
They'll probably retire Frank's number and give him a statue all at once, probably a year or two after he calls it quits. As for Harold, I figured he'd be next, since they seem to be doing all the retired numbers.

SaltyPretzel
03-23-2008, 02:13 PM
I wonder which of the 4 Sox jerseys he wore during his career will be used with the statue. :shrug:

DumpJerry
03-23-2008, 02:14 PM
So, when they have the dedication ceremony and Harold is standing next to his sculpture, will they hold a contest to have people guess which is the sculpture?:tongue:

sox1970
03-23-2008, 02:26 PM
I wonder which of the 4 Sox jerseys he wore during his career will be used with the statue. :shrug:

83

soxfanatlanta
03-23-2008, 02:37 PM
Good to see my all time favorite Sox player get his recognition.

Stoky44
03-23-2008, 03:20 PM
I wonder which of the 4 Sox jerseys he wore during his career will be used with the statue. :shrug:

I would bet the '83's since that was his MOST productive time. Not to say he wasn't good at other points in the sox uni. But take Thomas for example, great white sox almost every year, but what years stand out most for him. first 93 and 94, then probably in second is 2000. So if the sox changed uni's like they did in the 80's I would bet Thomas would be wearig a '93 or '94.


That's just my logic, but who knows maybe they will use the late 80's uni because they have fisk already in the '83 uni, Thomas will be wearing the current uni, and Harold was at greatness/immortal status to wear the first uni he played in.

TDog
03-23-2008, 04:01 PM
I would bet the '83's since that was his MOST productive time. Not to say he wasn't good at other points in the sox uni. But take Thomas for example, great white sox almost every year, but what years stand out most for him. first 93 and 94, then probably in second is 2000. So if the sox changed uni's like they did in the 80's I would bet Thomas would be wearig a '93 or '94.


That's just my logic, but who knows maybe they will use the late 80's uni because they have fisk already in the '83 uni, Thomas will be wearing the current uni, and Harold was at greatness/immortal status to wear the first uni he played in.

Harold Baines' first uniform was the navy blue and white thing unveiled in 1976 to much derision and still worn in 1980, although the shorts were retired after their initial appearance in the second game of an August 1976 doubleheader. The enduring image of Baines, though, is bearded in the 1983 uniform.

Frank Thomas came up in July 1990, the last year the Sox were in the late-1980s uniform the the funky "C" cap. The Sox actually switched to their current uniform in late September. Thomas probably all but 50 of his games for the Sox in the current uniform, so there isn't a debate between the 1993-94 Thomas and the 2000 Thomas, which, frankly, I would like to forget.

The statue honor is well-deserved, but, of course, Baines deserves more.

Brian26
03-23-2008, 04:39 PM
Does anyone else read the ignorant vitriol that gets posted as comments underneath the articles on chicagosports? Most of the stuff is embarrassing, and the Tribune certainly shows no shame in leaving it up unedited.

Look at this dandy under the Baines article, supposedly posted by a "Sox fan":

Itís really getting hard to be a Sox fan.

Not as hard as it would be to root for a team that hasn't won in 100 years.

First these guys retire his number while heís still playing because they were embarrassed they traded him. Now a statue????? Are you kidding me?

He starts whining about something that happened in 1989. Admittedly it was questionable then, but is it something worth obsessing over 19 years later?

Baines was a good player, thatís it.

Right. 2866 hits, 384 HRs, 1628 RBIs, a Silver Slugger, three All-Star Games, a 21-year career. That's just a "good" player.

This is why the Sox are the laughing stock of the sports world.

How are the Sox the laughing stock of the sports world two years removed from winning the World Series? :rolleyes:

It was thought to be impossible to have anything more condescending than Hawk as an announcer, but statuefest may be it.

My intelligence would be insulted by having Ron Santo as an announcer, but I guess there's something charming about that.

Either disgruntled Cub fans or George Knue must get a kick out of posting these messages.

WhiteSox5187
03-23-2008, 04:46 PM
I wonder which of the 4 Sox jerseys he wore during his career will be used with the statue. :shrug:
I'm thinkin' the '83 uni as that was the team he had the most success with (though he was an All-Star with that pig tailed C uniform, but that uniform does bring back fond memories for most Sox fans). As for Frank, there really isn't much of a debate as far as I'm concerned. He really only wore one uniform while he was here (I know, i know, he played a couple of months in that '90 uniform, and there was the Sunday special back in '01) but he'll always be associated with the black pin stripes. the only question is if they want to show him in the sleeveless vest that they wore from I think 2000-2007, but in my mind he'll always be remembered in the 1993 uniform.

C-Dawg
03-23-2008, 04:57 PM
It was thought to be impossible to have anything more condescending than Hawk as an announcer, but statuefest may be it.

That guy evidently doesn't get out much. I've seen statues of baseball greats at many ballparks, not just ours.

MarySwiss
03-23-2008, 05:04 PM
Well, look who the contributors are. All we need to know, I think.

soxfan21
03-23-2008, 08:47 PM
Congrats Harold, this statue is gonna look great on that concourse.

Hitmen77
03-23-2008, 09:24 PM
Congratulations Harold!!:gulp:

Does anyone else read the ignorant vitriol that gets posted as comments underneath the articles on chicagosports? Most of the stuff is embarrassing, and the Tribune certainly shows no shame in leaving it up unedited.

Look at this dandy under the Baines article, supposedly posted by a "Sox fan":



Not as hard as it would be to root for a team that hasn't won in 100 years.



He starts whining about something that happened in 1989. Admittedly it was questionable then, but is it something worth obsessing over 19 years later?



Right. 2866 hits, 384 HRs, 1628 RBIs, a Silver Slugger, three All-Star Games, a 21-year career. That's just a "good" player.



How are the Sox the laughing stock of the sports world two years removed from winning the World Series? :rolleyes:



My intelligence would be insulted by having Ron Santo as an announcer, but I guess there's something charming about that.

Either disgruntled Cub fans or George Knue must get a kick out of posting these messages.

I agree, those idiotic comments were embarrassing to read.

chisoxfanatic
03-23-2008, 09:24 PM
So, when they have the dedication ceremony and Harold is standing next to his sculpture, will they hold a contest to have people guess which is the sculpture?:tongue:

Ok, Dump, now that was pretty funny! LOL!

Will Harold fall asleep during the unveiling ceremony?

Good for him!

Lip Man 1
03-23-2008, 10:44 PM
Congratulations to Harold and his family.

This is well deserved.

Lip

Nellie_Fox
03-24-2008, 01:48 AM
When they still kept track of "game-winning RBI," Harold was always among the league leaders. His laid-back personality seemed to be perfectly suited for being unflappable in "game on the line" situations. I was devastated when they traded him (for Sosa :o:.) We can only guess what his career would have been like if not for the knee problems.

DumpJerry
03-24-2008, 02:09 AM
Will Harold fall asleep during the unveiling ceremony?
The Sox will have the Claudell Washington statue ceremony for that.

Paulwny
03-24-2008, 01:13 PM
When they still kept track of "game-winning RBI," Harold was always among the league leaders. His laid-back personality seemed to be perfectly suited for being unflappable in "game on the line" situations. I was devastated when they traded him (for Sosa :o:.) We can only guess what his career would have been like if not for the knee problems.

I couldn't have said it better.

skottyj242
03-24-2008, 01:26 PM
Who's going to be next?

Huisj
03-24-2008, 02:13 PM
Harold was my hero when I was a little kid. My favorite player ever. The statue is getting unveiled on July 20, which happens to be my 25th birthday (born in '83). If it's of him wearing the '83 uniforms, I don't think the story could get any more perfect for me.

RedHeadPaleHoser
03-24-2008, 02:43 PM
Either disgruntled Cub fans or George Knue must get a kick out of posting these messages.

Remember - Jay Mariotti is still sucking air also. Can't wait for his article in July when he slams Reinsdorf for taking too long, then questioning Baines' abilities for his career two paragraphs later.

I cannot remember who they played, but I was at a game in 81 or 82 where Harold frozen roped a throw from the RF corner to 3rd, on a fly, and nailed the guy. I will never forget it. I was absolutely amazed.

bmac5001
03-24-2008, 02:58 PM
Does anyone else read the ignorant vitriol that gets posted as comments underneath the articles on chicagosports? Most of the stuff is embarrassing, and the Tribune certainly shows no shame in leaving it up unedited.

Yeah, I really wish I wouldn't have read some of those comments. Quite embarrassing.

Good for Harold.

anewman35
03-24-2008, 03:19 PM
Who's going to be next?

Seems like they're doing all the retired numbers, so probably Luke Appling or Ted Lyons. I doubt they'd get many people excited, since most people these days have probably never heard of them, but they really should get statues too, just to be consistant.

RedHeadPaleHoser
03-24-2008, 03:32 PM
Seems like they're doing all the retired numbers, so probably Luke Appling or Ted Lyons. I doubt they'd get many people excited, since most people these days have probably never heard of them, but they really should get statues too, just to be consistant.

I think alot of Sox fans will be excited, because it ties the team history into the current park. I know my son has looked up Aparicio and Fox, as well as Fisk's career info on the web because he saw the statues at the Cell.

SoxFan64
03-24-2008, 04:13 PM
I am going to take a different approach. I liked Harold as a player and everyone who has met him says he is even a better person. But I think the statues and the retired numbers is missing something.

They should be for immortals. Immortals make the HOF. Baines is not in the HOF, yet.

I felt the retiring of his number immediately after the trade to TX was lame. I think the statue is too soon.

It is not as though we are Tampa Bay and have to retire Wade Boggs jersey because we have no others to promote.

We have 100+ years of history.

Where is Luke Appling? Eddie Collins? Ray Schalk? Ed Walsh? Ted Lyons? Red Faber?

Numbers should not be retired until they are retired and they are in perhaps a local Sox HOF. Statues should be reserved for those that played the bulk of their career with the Sox AND are in the HOF.

Baines is worthy of having his number retired -- now -- not back while he was playing. But there are others more worthy of statues at the Cell than Baines.

At the same time, I hope that Baines gets into the HOF but unfortunately that will take some time.

Procol Harum
03-24-2008, 04:35 PM
I am going to take a different approach. I liked Harold as a player and everyone who has met him says he is even a better person. But I think the statues and the retired numbers is missing something.

They should be for immortals. Immortals make the HOF. Baines is not in the HOF, yet.

I felt the retiring of his number immediately after the trade to TX was lame. I think the statue is too soon.

It is not as though we are Tampa Bay and have to retire Wade Boggs jersey because we have no others to promote.

We have 100+ years of history.

Where is Luke Appling? Eddie Collins? Ray Schalk? Ed Walsh? Ted Lyons? Red Faber?

Numbers should not be retired until they are retired and they are in perhaps a local Sox HOF. Statues should be reserved for those that played the bulk of their career with the Sox AND are in the HOF.

Baines is worthy of having his number retired -- now -- not back while he was playing. But there are others more worthy of statues at the Cell than Baines.

At the same time, I hope that Baines gets into the HOF but unfortunately that will take some time.

AGREE--particularly in worthiness of Appling, Walsh, Collins and others before Harold Baines.

jabrch
03-24-2008, 05:14 PM
Who's going to be next?


They had plans for Fautino de los Santos. But recent events ruined that. I'm guessing BA is next.

Frontman
03-24-2008, 05:34 PM
Congrats to Harold. And for those who would complain or make fun of the statues?

Does the name Ernie freakin' Banks mean anything to the Flubbie faithful? Oh wait, he's getting a statue soon, too.

Morons.

Lip Man 1
03-24-2008, 06:37 PM
The White Sox philosophy on this appears to be to honor as many of those as possible who are still with us fans to see it.

I have no doubt that eventually statues of Lyons (Ted not Steve..LOL) and Appling will be done, as well as Al Lopez.

Then you'll probably see some statues of guys off the All Century Team (i.e. Hoyt Wilhelm, Wilbur Wood for example...)

You might even see some statues of the Sox Hall of Fame broadcasters in Bob Elson, Jack Brickhouse or Harry Caray.

Eventually (when new ownership takes over) something for Bill Veeck may take place.

The Sox have a lot of room around the stadium to do this (I think I read somewhere that the plan was to have statues surrounding the playing field.) and they have all the time in the world, it's not like the franchise is going anywhere for the next 50 years.

Lip

Frontman
03-24-2008, 07:10 PM
Hey, they let my reply through! I figured it wouldn't with saying the Cubs should then also be critized for Harry's and the upcoming Ernie statue.

Then again, their previewer might actually have a bit of logic going on in his or her brain......

TDog
03-24-2008, 07:31 PM
I am going to take a different approach. I liked Harold as a player and everyone who has met him says he is even a better person. But I think the statues and the retired numbers is missing something.

They should be for immortals. Immortals make the HOF. Baines is not in the HOF, yet.

I felt the retiring of his number immediately after the trade to TX was lame. I think the statue is too soon.

It is not as though we are Tampa Bay and have to retire Wade Boggs jersey because we have no others to promote.

We have 100+ years of history.

Where is Luke Appling? Eddie Collins? Ray Schalk? Ed Walsh? Ted Lyons? Red Faber?

Numbers should not be retired until they are retired and they are in perhaps a local Sox HOF. Statues should be reserved for those that played the bulk of their career with the Sox AND are in the HOF.

Baines is worthy of having his number retired -- now -- not back while he was playing. But there are others more worthy of statues at the Cell than Baines.

At the same time, I hope that Baines gets into the HOF but unfortunately that will take some time.

I agree that Baines' number should not have been retired when he was still active -- and had two more tours of duty with the White Sox in his future. They could have not burdened another player with the number, of course. Not issuing the number is not the same as formally retiring the number that used to belong to Walt "No-Neck" Williams.

The fact that Baines hasn't been voted into the Hall of Fame, however, does not diminish his statue-worthiness. Baines belongs in the Hall of Fame (probably more than Ray Schalk), although Baines had to play through some tough breaks to produce statistics that people consider unworthy of the honor.

In a game situation where the White Sox needed a big hit, I would rather have Harold Baines at the plate than Frank Thomas. (I would certainly consider Thomas Hall-of-Fame worthy.) That certainly proved to be the case in the 2000 ALDS, near the end of Baines' career.

If a statue keeps alive the memory of Baines' baseball career, it would be a great addition to the ballpark.

Brian26
03-24-2008, 08:04 PM
Here's another gem from chicagosports by "white sox fan" Tom Graves.

A statue ? A retired number ? As one who has attended and watched Sox games for 60 years, I can't think of a memorable Harold Baines moment. Better that Jerry Reinsdorf honor his beloved Brooklyn Dodgers. Robinson, Snider, or Reese are more deserving.

This guy doesn't remember Harold hitting the sacrifice fly to win the 1983 AL West Championship?

What about the homer in 1984 to end the marathon 25-inning game against the Brewers?

What about taking Wettland deep twice to end games in 1996?

Honestly, what a pathetic statement.

TDog
03-24-2008, 08:13 PM
Here's another gem from chicagosports by "white sox fan" Tom Graves.



This guy doesn't remember Harold hitting the sacrifice fly to win the 1983 AL West Championship?

What about the homer in 1984 to end the marathon 25-inning game against the Brewers?

What about taking Wettland deep twice to end games in 1996?

Honestly, what a pathetic statement.

Unfortunately, Hall-of-Fame voters seem to have the same comprehension and memory problems.

Brian26
03-24-2008, 08:24 PM
Unfortunately, Hall-of-Fame voters seem to have the same comprehension and memory problems.

Well, I'm not saying Baines deserves to be in the HOF because of any single moment, but it's embarrassing to say you've been a Sox fan for 60 years and can't remember one memorable Baines moment.

What about that catch Baines made against the wall in New York in Tom Seaver's 300th win?

Soxfest
03-24-2008, 08:25 PM
http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/notworthy.gif My favorite Sox player .........Congrats. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/gosoxretro.gif

Huisj
03-24-2008, 09:04 PM
I'm guessing BA is next.

They're building his statue at Tucson Electric Park though.

areilly
03-24-2008, 09:58 PM
They had plans for Fautino de los Santos. But recent events ruined that. I'm guessing BA is next.

It'll be Swisher. He'll be sculpted in the fist-pump pose he makes after pitching a perfect Game 1 of the 2008 World Series, a game in which he also went 4-for-5 with 2 doubles and a homer.

SoxFan64
03-26-2008, 01:20 PM
The fact that Baines hasn't been voted into the Hall of Fame, however, does not diminish his statue-worthiness. Baines belongs in the Hall of Fame (probably more than Ray Schalk), although Baines had to play through some tough breaks to produce statistics that people consider unworthy of the honor.

TDog,

Most of what you wrote has us in agreement. But please tell me why you believe Baines is more worthy of the HOF than Schalk. What leads you to this conclusion?

sox1970
03-26-2008, 02:01 PM
Harold Baines isn't close to being a Hall of Fame player, but if the Sox want to make a statue for all of the retired numbers, I have no problem with it.

KenBerryGrab
03-26-2008, 02:55 PM
HAR-old!

TDog
03-26-2008, 03:15 PM
TDog,

Most of what you wrote has us in agreement. But please tell me why you believe Baines is more worthy of the HOF than Schalk. What leads you to this conclusion?

Ray Schalk probably deserves to be in the Hall of Fame for his defense. He wasn't a great hitter (.253 lifetime average -- 11 homers are deceptive because it was the dead ball era -- 199 doubles in 19 seasons reflects a little power.) He wasn't a good manager. He was a great defensive catcher in his day. I never saw him play, but I have read that he would throw out runners without standing up from his crouch behind the plate. The story went on to say that the style that "wouldn't be possible today."

In the first Hall of Fame vote in 1936, Schalk got four votes -- 1.7 percent. Shoeless Joe Jackson got only two votes, but Jackson, despite being on the ballot, was banished from baseball, and Schalk was one of the "Clean Sox" from the 1919 World Series. Schalk got into the Hall of Fame in 1955 and was worthy of a full-page obituary in The Sporting News when he died in 1970.

I disagree with people who name Schalk as one of the Veterans Committee selections. I have even heard people tell me that Luis Aparicio doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. Often they seem like the sound of their own voice, it having just changed and all. Great defense can't be quantified in numbers.

What Harold Baines brought to baseball can't be totally quantified in numbers either. I'm not saying Schalk doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. I'm saying Baines probably is more deserving. It may take a thoughtful Veterans Committee (which doesn't currently exist) to see that.

eriqjaffe
03-26-2008, 03:26 PM
The only thing keeping Harold out of the HoF is the stigma that he spent a considerable number of years as a full-time DH.

Statistically, I see him as the batting equivalent of a Don Sutton - never a huge peak of dominance, but steadily put up high-quality numbers for a very long time. Again, there's a considerable voting block that would argue that he was only capable of accumulating those numbers because he didn't have to trot out on the field with his bad knees for a large chunk of time, so...

SoxFan64
03-27-2008, 01:18 AM
Like you I never saw Schalk play. You give an excellent summary of the Voting for HOF and then at the end of your second to last paragraph you write.

Great defense can't be quantified in numbers.

I agree. Then this is puzzling.

What Harold Baines brought to baseball can't be totally quantified in numbers either.

Ok Baines was a full time DH from 1987 onward. Being a catcher is probably the most important defensive position in baseball. So how come Baines gets a pass on non-quantified numbers to a greater extent than Schalk?

I'm not saying Schalk doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. I'm saying Baines probably is more deserving. It may take a thoughtful Veterans Committee (which doesn't currently exist) to see that.

Ok, so if you punt and ask the Veterans Committee to determine this then my concern is how you can make the claim that Baines is more deserving of the HOF over Schalk when Schalk got in via the Veterans Cmte.

Again I like Baines. I saw him play. My only exposure to Schalk was reading Eight Men Out. But I don't think you can back up your statement that Baines is more deserving of HOF over someone already in there.

And to not forget the original posting was on putting statue of Baines in the Cell. I think we have far more deserving players to honor over Harold Baines. Namely any one of the HOFers that played the majority of the career on the South Side: Schalk, Walsh, Collins, Faber, Lyons, and Appling.

Why not use the statues to clue in the fans of the rich heritage that is the Sox.