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View Full Version : Why not trade Fields?


Danryan
03-19-2008, 10:23 AM
If Fields has so much value then see what you can get for him; possibly some quality pitching. Roll the dice with Crede, and worst case scenario we're looking for a 3rd basemen next year.

fquaye149
03-19-2008, 10:24 AM
Trade the guy we have locked up for 4 more years with arbitration in order to start the injury-risk, walk year guy?

Sounds great. Instead of filling a hole, we're creating a hole and filling a different hole for 2009. Wonderful.

chaerulez
03-19-2008, 10:27 AM
Or this year if he gets hurt again.

It's just a bad way to run a team with a fixed payroll. The Sox can pretty much pay Fields whatever they want for the next three years. And Fields proved he is promising MLB player, hitting 23 HRs in just over 400 plate appearances. Imagine what he could do given a full season of 600 plate appearances, he could very well hit 40 HRs. One of two things can happen with Crede:

1. He has another season like 2007, we have a gaping hole in 3B for the year, unless Fields is on the team.

2. He goes to 2006 form and his asking price for an extension is 5 years (which the Sox won't do) and $65 million.

I like Crede a lot, that is why I was one of the people that supported Fields playing LF, but it looks like the team is going away from that approach. But if I have to pick and choose, I'd rather have Fields here.

Danryan
03-19-2008, 10:28 AM
I'm not sold on Fields being a major league 3rd basemen. Anyway when Crede leaves you'll have the money to sign someone better than Fields will ever be at 3rd.

chaerulez
03-19-2008, 10:30 AM
I'm not sold on Fields being a major league 3rd basemen. Anyway when Crede leaves you'll have the money to sign someone better than Fields will ever be at 3rd.

Fielding wise he is not there yet. But the guy is going to be a better hitter than Crede ever was. Or most third baseball around the league. Plus the only other worthwhile free agent for next year is Hank Blalock or maybe Chipper Jones, but have options though. Joe Crede will be the only sought after 3B in the market if he is healthy.

hi im skot
03-19-2008, 10:31 AM
This again?

BRDSR
03-19-2008, 10:34 AM
I'm not sold on Fields being a major league 3rd basemen. Anyway when Crede leaves you'll have the money to sign someone better than Fields will ever be at 3rd.

You're right...I can't think of a single thing the White Sox will need to spend money on this offseason besides a better player than Fields, who could easily hit .270, 35 homers, and 90 RBI in a full season.

Trading Fields would be a much bigger mistake than not trading Crede.

guillen4life13
03-19-2008, 10:48 AM
If the Sox trade Fields, they'd better get an ace starter in return. Young guy with that much power/rbi potential on the cheap? Better not be cheap for another team.

I_Liked_Manuel
03-19-2008, 10:49 AM
You're right...I can't think of a single thing the White Sox will need to spend money on this offseason besides a better player than Fields, who could easily hit .270, 35 homers, and 90 RBI in a full season.

Trading Fields would be a much bigger mistake than not trading Crede.

if fields proves - again - that he can't play defense in the majors, do you want a .270, 90 rbi guy as your dh? if fields comes out and continues to be a detriment in the field, he really has no place being on a major league roster, despite the fact that he has slightly above average power.

do you really think that fields has 35 home run potential? i do, but the only way i see him getting there is if he does a jose valentin impersonation, swings for the fence every at bat, and ends up hitting .250 in the process with 180 strike outs.

kittle42
03-19-2008, 10:51 AM
This is horrible, this idea.

skottyj242
03-19-2008, 11:26 AM
Ozzie prefers Latino players.

Gammons Peter
03-19-2008, 11:33 AM
If Fields has so much value then see what you can get for him; possibly some quality pitching. Roll the dice with Crede, and worst case scenario we're looking for a 3rd basemen next year.


who said he has "so much value" i don't think a defensive liability that strikes out too much is going to get back much in a trade, certainly not an ace pitcher

BRDSR
03-19-2008, 11:37 AM
if fields proves - again - that he can't play defense in the majors, do you want a .270, 90 rbi guy as your dh?


And when Fields is your DH, who is your third baseman? Crede is gone after this season. Despite his less-than stellar defensive abilities, Fields is by far the White Sox best option at third base in 2009. Honestly, I don't think this is debateable.

voodoochile
03-19-2008, 11:46 AM
I'm not sold on Fields being a major league 3rd basemen. Anyway when Crede leaves you'll have the money to sign someone better than Fields will ever be at 3rd.

Hi, Joe. Welcome to WSI.

Just for the record, Mr. Crede, who would you propose the Sox sign next year who will be better than Fields and as inexpensive as you are this year?

oeo
03-19-2008, 11:51 AM
If Fields has so much value then see what you can get for him; possibly some quality pitching. Roll the dice with Crede, and worst case scenario we're looking for a 3rd basemen next year.

That's a scenario you want to be in next year? :scratch:

Fields is a 35+ homerun, 100+ RBI guy who we have for cheap over the next few years. Why should we pay a free agent when we've got our man right now? That money would be better spent on the rotation.

I'll say it again: Fields should not be traded unless we're getting a very good, young SP...and I don't think that's going to happen.

Elephant
03-19-2008, 12:10 PM
Trading Fields is stupid that's why. Crede's time here is over.

Fields, offensively, could be like a healthy, productive Troy Glaus. Much more offensive upside than Crede. And while he's not nearly the fielder, he does give you good speed.

southsideirish71
03-19-2008, 12:18 PM
I get a kick out of Crede's crew.

They have proposed trading just about everyone to make sure that Joe is on the team. Konerko, Thome, Fields, etc.
They seem to forget the logic that Joe+Boras+coming off an injury+walk year=gone.

They are calling radio stations, posting on message boards all trying to keep Joe. Where was all this fury and craziness when Robin Ventura an overall much better player than Joe Crede was sent packing. Robin had real gold gloves, not the mythical ones that Crede's crew have given him already. And he could actually hit. Not just in one season.

And for the fielding comments about Fields. You should take a gander at the fielding stats when Mr. Crede appeared on the scene. You might gloss over that he was not that good, in fact Fieldslike. But because it was on the WS DVD, he was born with a gold glove in his left hand and he catches lazer beams in his sleep.

Fields will be fine. Will he be the best fielder, probably not. But the production so far has shown promise. We are not the Yankees we need to have some high priced players with a mixture of home grown cheap talent.

PalehosePlanet
03-19-2008, 12:36 PM
I get a kick out of Crede's crew.

They have proposed trading just about everyone to make sure that Joe is on the team. Konerko, Thome, Fields, etc.
They seem to forget the logic that Joe+Boras+coming off an injury+walk year=gone.

They are calling radio stations, posting on message boards all trying to keep Joe. Where was all this fury and craziness when Robin Ventura an overall much better player than Joe Crede was sent packing. Robin had real gold gloves, not the mythical ones that Crede's crew have given him already. And he could actually hit. Not just in one season.

And for the fielding comments about Fields. You should take a gander at the fielding stats when Mr. Crede appeared on the scene. You might gloss over that he was not that good, in fact Fieldslike. But because it was on the WS DVD, he was born with a gold glove in his left hand and he catches lazer beams in his sleep.

Fields will be fine. Will he be the best fielder, probably not. But the production so far has shown promise. We are not the Yankees we need to have some high priced players with a mixture of home grown cheap talent.

100% on the money!

I wish we would just take what we could get for Joe and move on. We can't expect too much for a guy with one year remaining on a contract with health issues. Even Dave Roberts at this point --- from SF --- doesn't sound bad as a bench guy.

Go Joe!! ....and take uribe with you.

rdivaldi
03-19-2008, 12:43 PM
if fields comes out and continues to be a detriment in the field, he really has no place being on a major league roster, despite the fact that he has slightly above average power.

:?: That's ridiculous. If you look at all position players in the AL in 2007, you'll see that a grand total of six players had more than 30 home runs. Fields had 23 in a mere 373 at bats. That shows way above average power.

fquaye149
03-19-2008, 12:43 PM
I get a kick out of Crede's crew.

They have proposed trading just about everyone to make sure that Joe is on the team. Konerko, Thome, Fields, etc.
They seem to forget the logic that Joe+Boras+coming off an injury+walk year=gone.

They are calling radio stations, posting on message boards all trying to keep Joe. Where was all this fury and craziness when Robin Ventura an overall much better player than Joe Crede was sent packing. Robin had real gold gloves, not the mythical ones that Crede's crew have given him already. And he could actually hit. Not just in one season.

And for the fielding comments about Fields. You should take a gander at the fielding stats when Mr. Crede appeared on the scene. You might gloss over that he was not that good, in fact Fieldslike. But because it was on the WS DVD, he was born with a gold glove in his left hand and he catches lazer beams in his sleep.

Fields will be fine. Will he be the best fielder, probably not. But the production so far has shown promise. We are not the Yankees we need to have some high priced players with a mixture of home grown cheap talent.

and you know what? Even the Yankees need this b/c talent is not always out there for the buying.

Frankly, even if we had money to burn on a FA 3B next year, the talent just isn't really there to buy.

oeo
03-19-2008, 12:45 PM
I get a kick out of Crede's crew.

They have proposed trading just about everyone to make sure that Joe is on the team. Konerko, Thome, Fields, etc.
They seem to forget the logic that Joe+Boras+coming off an injury+walk year=gone.

They are calling radio stations, posting on message boards all trying to keep Joe. Where was all this fury and craziness when Robin Ventura an overall much better player than Joe Crede was sent packing. Robin had real gold gloves, not the mythical ones that Crede's crew have given him already. And he could actually hit. Not just in one season.

And for the fielding comments about Fields. You should take a gander at the fielding stats when Mr. Crede appeared on the scene. You might gloss over that he was not that good, in fact Fieldslike. But because it was on the WS DVD, he was born with a gold glove in his left hand and he catches lazer beams in his sleep.

Fields will be fine. Will he be the best fielder, probably not. But the production so far has shown promise. We are not the Yankees we need to have some high priced players with a mixture of home grown cheap talent.

This is good. :thumbsup:

WhiteSox5187
03-19-2008, 12:51 PM
I'm not 100% opposed to trading Fields but you damn well better get something damn good in return.

oeo
03-19-2008, 12:58 PM
I'm not 100% opposed to trading Fields but you damn well better get something damn good in return.

And that return is Brian Roberts? :lol:

Jjav829
03-19-2008, 01:09 PM
Fields will be fine. Will he be the best fielder, probably not. But the production so far has shown promise. We are not the Yankees we need to have some high priced players with a mixture of home grown cheap talent.

That's pretty much the key reason why Fields will stay. This team (just like any team looking to contend every year) needs to have a stream of young players coming in and producing. The core of the Sox offense is on the wrong side of 30. Thome is 37. Konerko is 32. Dye is 34. Cabrera is 33. Pierzynski is 31.

Swisher at 27 helps, but the Sox are going to slowly phase out Thome, Konerko and Dye in the next few years. And unless they are going to spend huge dollars on someone like Mark Teixeira, they're going to have to develop a few young players within the organization.

Fields may have some big flaws. And he may not have the upside or all-around game of a prospect like Rasmus. But he's locked in to his rookie contract, and has shown an ability an ability to produce at the major league level.

ChiTownTrojan
03-19-2008, 01:17 PM
I get a kick out of Crede's crew.

They have proposed trading just about everyone to make sure that Joe is on the team. Konerko, Thome, Fields, etc.
They seem to forget the logic that Joe+Boras+coming off an injury+walk year=gone.

They are calling radio stations, posting on message boards all trying to keep Joe. Where was all this fury and craziness when Robin Ventura an overall much better player than Joe Crede was sent packing. Robin had real gold gloves, not the mythical ones that Crede's crew have given him already. And he could actually hit. Not just in one season.

And for the fielding comments about Fields. You should take a gander at the fielding stats when Mr. Crede appeared on the scene. You might gloss over that he was not that good, in fact Fieldslike. But because it was on the WS DVD, he was born with a gold glove in his left hand and he catches lazer beams in his sleep.

Fields will be fine. Will he be the best fielder, probably not. But the production so far has shown promise. We are not the Yankees we need to have some high priced players with a mixture of home grown cheap talent.
Excellent post. However, if there is absolutely no trade market for Crede right now, I say we hold on to him, for two reasons:
1) he right now is a better all-around player than Fields (when healthy), and doesn't come with the "growing pains" of a player in his first full season
2) a trade market will probably develop by the trading deadline. If one doesn't, the worst that happens is that we let him walk at the end of the year. Unless we get something of value back in a trade (I don't consider Dave Roberts to be valuable to this team), I think our best chance to win now is to leave Crede out there.

But they're not dumb enough to trade Fields.

aryzner
03-19-2008, 01:20 PM
I love Joe just as much as any Joe Crede fan. I'd love for him to stay but it's just not looking like it's the best thing for this team. Fields is here to stay.

Like has been said by others in this thread, I'm opposed to trading Fields unless the Sox get a serious we-cannot-pass-this-up deal for him, which is very doubtful.

I_Liked_Manuel
03-19-2008, 01:34 PM
:?: That's ridiculous. If you look at all position players in the AL in 2007, you'll see that a grand total of six players had more than 30 home runs. Fields had 23 in a mere 373 at bats. That shows way above average power.

why would you compare him to all position players? it makes a lot more sense to compare him to 3B and LF, whose only talent is hitting for power. if you do that, he's slightly above average.

fields also had 125 strike outs in 100 games last year btw.

the big question here is whether 30-35 home runs is worth 180-200 strike outs and no defensive production

It's Dankerific
03-19-2008, 01:48 PM
We can have both! Joe for this year, Fields for 2009 and beyond. Guess what, if Josh sits a whole year in AAA, we get another "cheap" year from him in the MLB. just start his FA clock again in 2009. Like what ****ing draft pick we get for Joe should matter to this team.

voodoochile
03-19-2008, 02:01 PM
why would you compare him to all position players? it makes a lot more sense to compare him to 3B and LF, whose only talent is hitting for power. if you do that, he's slightly above average.

fields also had 125 strike outs in 100 games last year btw.

the big question here is whether 30-35 home runs is worth 180-200 strike outs and no defensive production

Well now hold on, if only 6 players hit more than 30 HR last year in the AL then even if you narrow it down to the 28 LF and 3B in the AL Fields still has "well above average power" We know for a fact that not all the guys with 30 HR played at 3B and LF because Thome was one of them. I assume Ortiz was another. So if ALL of the remaining 4 come from those two positions, Fields ranks 5th in that category (again, out of 28).

Most people would expect Fields HR to go up and his K's to diminish as he got older and if he can keep his HR above 30 and his K's around 100 he'll be fine.

WhiteSox5187
03-19-2008, 02:02 PM
And that return is Brian Roberts? :lol:
Let's see, arguably the best leadoff hitter in the game for a team that already has four guys capable of hitting 30+ HRs with 100+ RBIs, but lacks a leadoff hitter and team speed? Hmmm, yea, I'd make that trade. I'm not suggesting we wouldn't be giving up a lot, but we'd be getting something we'd need and could help us win in 2008.

southsideirish71
03-19-2008, 02:07 PM
We can have both! Joe for this year, Fields for 2009 and beyond. Guess what, if Josh sits a whole year in AAA, we get another "cheap" year from him in the MLB. just start his FA clock again in 2009. Like what ****ing draft pick we get for Joe should matter to this team.

My worry with Josh going down is more with the level of competition in that league. Remember this is the same league where Felix Diaz was Cy Young, Jeremy Reed was Wade Boggs, and Brian Anderson hit 300. Remember Brett Printz from last year, he was a lights out reliever with a .56 ERA. He could go down there, and absolutely dominate. The shear amount of AAAA garbage that he will face can allow hitting flaws to get by. I mean you can get by with a hitch if you are facing Felix Diaz, not so much when facing CC Sabathia. How many AAA players have come up with long and looping swings that had pretty good numbers in AAA.

ilsox7
03-19-2008, 02:12 PM
My worry with Josh going down is more with the level of competition in that league. Remember this is the same league where Felix Diaz was Cy Young, Jeremy Reed was Wade Boggs, and Brian Anderson hit 300. Remember Brett Printz from last year, he was a lights out reliever with a .56 ERA. He could go down there, and absolutely dominate. The shear amount of AAAA garbage that he will face can allow hitting flaws to get by. I mean you can get by with a hitch if you are facing Felix Diaz, not so much when facing CC Sabathia. How many AAA players have come up with long and looping swings that had pretty good numbers in AAA.

Um, every single minor league is filled with a vast majority of players who will never amount to anything at the big league level. It's just the nature of the game.

BRDSR
03-19-2008, 02:15 PM
why would you compare him to all position players? it makes a lot more sense to compare him to 3B and LF, whose only talent is hitting for power. if you do that, he's slightly above average.


This is the most ridiculous falacy in the history of baseball armchair GMs. If a team's stolen bases come from their catchers and their home runs come from second baseman, do they somehow count less than when the stolen bases come from the second baseman and the home runs come from the catcher?

It's a rhetorical question, but I'll give you the answer: no.

I_Liked_Manuel
03-19-2008, 02:26 PM
This is the most ridiculous falacy in the history of baseball armchair GMs. If a team's stolen bases come from their catchers and their home runs come from second baseman, do they somehow count less than when the stolen bases come from the second baseman and the home runs come from the catcher?

It's a rhetorical question, but I'll give you the answer: no.

let's stay on track here, none of what you wrote is even applicable.

fields is capable of playing, i'd imagine, 4 positions - 3B, LF, 1B, and DH. at all of those positions, except for the obvious, he'd be substandard defensively. he'd also be substandard with his batting average. the only things he has going for him right now, with the exception of his contract, is that he can hit for power and he's young. i don't think that his power makes up for his other deficiencies, and based on the production that you see from other players at his position, his power doesn't put him in the upper echelon.

oeo
03-19-2008, 02:28 PM
Let's see, arguably the best leadoff hitter in the game for a team that already has four guys capable of hitting 30+ HRs with 100+ RBIs, but lacks a leadoff hitter and team speed? Hmmm, yea, I'd make that trade. I'm not suggesting we wouldn't be giving up a lot, but we'd be getting something we'd need and could help us win in 2008.

I'll argue all damn day that he's not the best leadoff hitter in the game.

We'll be fine at leadoff. If the team should trade for anything, it's for SP. Trading for Roberts isn't suddenly going to propel is to the playoffs. Therefore, trading Fields for him is stupid.

WhiteSox5187
03-19-2008, 02:56 PM
I'll argue all damn day that he's not the best leadoff hitter in the game.

We'll be fine at leadoff. If the team should trade for anything, it's for SP. Trading for Roberts isn't suddenly going to propel is to the playoffs. Therefore, trading Fields for him is stupid.
Out of curiosity, who do you think is the best leadoff hitter?

oeo
03-19-2008, 03:00 PM
Out of curiosity, who do you think is the best leadoff hitter?

There's this guy that plays SS for the Mets. Only 24, plays great D, has pop, plate discipline gets better every year, and will steal you 70+ bases a year.

palehozenychicty
03-19-2008, 03:07 PM
There's this guy that plays SS for the Mets. Only 24, plays great D, has pop, plate discipline gets better every year, and will steal you 70+ bases a year.

Seriously. When he's on, nobody is even near his level. To compare B. Roberts is foolhardy.

kittle42
03-19-2008, 03:14 PM
We'll be fine at leadoff. If the team should trade for anything, it's for SP. Trading for Roberts isn't suddenly going to propel is to the playoffs. Therefore, trading Fields for him is stupid.

Amen to this. Not replacing Garland is going to end up being a horrible failure if this team tanks in the SP dept.

Nellie_Fox
03-19-2008, 03:15 PM
Well now hold on, if only 6 players hit more than 30 HR last year in the AL then even if you narrow it down to the 28 LF and 3B in the AL Fields still has "well above average power" We know for a fact that not all the guys with 30 HR played at 3B and LF because Thome was one of them. I assume Ortiz was another. So if ALL of the remaining 4 come from those two positions, Fields ranks 5th in that category (again, out of 28).

Top six:
Home Runs
Rodriguez (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rodrial01.shtml)-NYY 54 Pena (http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/penaca01.shtml)-TBD 46 Ortiz (http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/ortizda01.shtml)-BOS 35 Thome (http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/thomeji01.shtml)-CHW 35 Konerko (http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/konerpa01.shtml)-CHW 31 Morneau (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/morneju01.shtml)-MIN 31

Five dh/first basemen and a third baseman.

Carolina Kenny
03-19-2008, 03:19 PM
let's stay on track here, none of what you wrote is even applicable.

fields is capable of playing, i'd imagine, 4 positions - 3B, LF, 1B, and DH. at all of those positions, except for the obvious, he'd be substandard defensively. he'd also be substandard with his batting average. the only things he has going for him right now, with the exception of his contract, is that he can hit for power and he's young. i don't think that his power makes up for his other deficiencies, and based on the production that you see from other players at his position, his power doesn't put him in the upper echelon.

I agree. People here are expecting 30 plus HR's and league average out of Fields. The sample size is from a rookie who generated that number for a team which was out of pennant contention. The jury is out if Fields can even match mediocre Crede type hitting numbers. If Josh ends up as the starting third baseman, I will be rooting for his success. If he flops in his sophmore year, I will get no pleasure from his failure. My level of expectations is more like, 18HR, .245 Ave. 110K and 25 errors if he is the starter.

fquaye149
03-19-2008, 03:26 PM
I agree. People here are expecting 30 plus HR's and league average out of Fields. The sample size is from a rookie who generated that number for a team which was out of pennant contention. The jury is out if Fields can even match mediocre Crede type hitting numbers. If Josh ends up as the starting third baseman, I will be rooting for his success. If he flops in his sophmore year, I will get no pleasure from his failure. My level of expectations is more like, 18HR, .245 Ave. 110K and 25 errors if he is the starter.

I'd rather take my chances with that "jury" than a guy in his walk year coming off back surgery who was never much of a hitter to begin with.

But, like, you know, like, that's me:rolleyes:

I also find it amusing that your predictions has him hitting 5 less HR in nearly 1.5x the AB, but having a BA that stays the same.

Sure :rolleyes:

Carolina Kenny
03-19-2008, 03:31 PM
I'd rather take my chances with that "jury" than a guy in his walk year coming off back surgery who was never much of a hitter to begin with.

But, like, you know, like, that's me:rolleyes:

I also find it amusing that your predictions has him declining in HR production in nearly 1.5x the AB, but maintaining a constant BA between the two years.

Sure :rolleyes:

Joe is the Third Best 3B in Sox history. Play him until he drops.

1.Robin Ventura
2.Bill Melton
3.Joe Crede
4.Pete Ward
5. Willie Kamm

ChiTownTrojan
03-19-2008, 03:38 PM
Seriously. When he's on, nobody is even near his level. To compare B. Roberts is foolhardy.
I'm partial to Ichiro. But that's because I have an asian fetish.

fquaye149
03-19-2008, 03:40 PM
Joe is the Third Best 3B in Sox history. Play him until he drops.

1.Robin Ventura
2.Bill Melton
3.Joe Crede
4.Pete Ward
5. Willie Kamm

Wow! What insight. Hey what's Ray Durham doing? He was one of the top 5 2B ever to play for our club!

What about Freddy Garcia? He would probably rank in the top 25 all-time starting pitchers!

What's Pudge doing? He was the #1 best C in organization history (although Ray Schalk had his moments)

Elephant
03-19-2008, 03:48 PM
Well now hold on, if only 6 players hit more than 30 HR last year in the AL then even if you narrow it down to the 28 LF and 3B in the AL Fields still has "well above average power" We know for a fact that not all the guys with 30 HR played at 3B and LF because Thome was one of them. I assume Ortiz was another. So if ALL of the remaining 4 come from those two positions, Fields ranks 5th in that category (again, out of 28).

Most people would expect Fields HR to go up and his K's to diminish as he got older and if he can keep his HR above 30 and his K's around 100 he'll be fine.

Fields' power is somewhere between "above average" and "ungodly."

If he gets his stuff together, he's a 50 homer guy.

WhiteSox5187
03-19-2008, 03:57 PM
There's this guy that plays SS for the Mets. Only 24, plays great D, has pop, plate discipline gets better every year, and will steal you 70+ bases a year.
Ah, that's true. Ichiro is up there too. Reyes is certainly one of the best players in the game right now. I can't believe he's only 24.

bigdommer
03-19-2008, 04:12 PM
The Sox have not had a lot of cost certainty over the past few years, either having to acquire contracts in trades or shell out dollars to lock up their pitchers. They don't have a lot of "can't miss" guys in the farm system that will provide this payroll stability, so a guy like Fields is a guy you can pencil in at 3rd for the next 5 years and pretty much know what you are going to have to pay him. While Fields may not be an all-star, I think it is safe to say that he will be in the top 25% of 3rd basemen, which is all Crede was going to be at an inflated price.

Also, I don't understand how someone can say that Fields' numbers are somehow inflated because the team was out of contention. Did opposing pitchers groove him fastballs because they knew the Sox were out of it? Did Fields decide to swing for the fences because the team was fighting to stay out of the basement? Makes zero sense.

thomas35forever
03-19-2008, 04:14 PM
Fields' power is somewhere between "above average" and "ungodly."

If he gets his stuff together, he's a 50 homer guy.
I doubt he'll ever hit that many, but I think he'll get his stuff together over the next couple of years.

As far as this topic goes, I'd rather have a surplus this year than a huge hole next year. You'd be kicking yourself next year if you let this happen now. Let's let the Cubs have this traditional problem.

fquaye149
03-19-2008, 04:17 PM
The Sox have not had a lot of cost certainty over the past few years, either having to acquire contracts in trades or shell out dollars to lock up their pitchers. They don't have a lot of "can't miss" guys in the farm system that will provide this payroll stability, so a guy like Fields is a guy you can pencil in at 3rd for the next 5 years and pretty much know what you are going to have to pay him. While Fields may not be an all-star, I think it is safe to say that he will be in the top 25% of 3rd basemen, which is all Crede was going to be at an inflated price.

Also, I don't understand how someone can say that Fields' numbers are somehow inflated because the team was out of contention. Did opposing pitchers groove him fastballs because they knew the Sox were out of it? Did Fields decide to swing for the fences because the team was fighting to stay out of the basement? Makes zero sense.

This is well-put--there is very little depth in our system, so young players locked up for a number of years should be the deal breaker, given that there's reason to believe they can produce.

Come 2009 we're going to be looking for a 3B, whether that be Fields or a FA since Joe ain't likely coming back. Even if Crede gives us a slightly better chance to win (which is debatable), it would be really nice to know what we have in Fields, since 2008 is likely a 3rd place year anyway

It's Dankerific
03-19-2008, 04:57 PM
it would be really nice to know what we have in Fields, since 2008 is likely a 3rd place year anyway

You might have missed the memo, we're contending for a championship this year. Why else would we dump our farm system out the door? I think you get a TON more people on the play Josh side if the team was positioning itself for a rebuild phase, instead of a "go for (farmteam/future) broke year"

fquaye149
03-19-2008, 04:59 PM
You might have missed the memo, we're contending for a championship this year. Why else would we dump our farm system out the door? I think you get a TON more people on the play Josh side if the team was positioning itself for a rebuild phase, instead of a "go for (farmteam/future) broke year"

It's not like we traded prospects for veterans. We traded our prospects for the type of players Fields is--young players locked up for a while.

Trading for Swisher, Quentin, and Richar and signing Ramirez are, to a large extent, moves with an eye more toward the future than the present, no matter hall many of HOF relievers like DLS we traded to get them

kittle42
03-19-2008, 05:07 PM
Joe is the Third Best 3B in Sox history. Play him until he drops.

1.Robin Ventura
2.Bill Melton
3.Joe Crede
4.Pete Ward
5. Willie Kamm

This is mind-numbing. Stop living in the past.

LoveYourSuit
03-19-2008, 05:48 PM
question regarding service time:

Josh Fields will lose a year of service time this year regardless if he is here or in Charlotte, is this correct?


This is very costly IMO because you lose a guy for a year who can produce very good numbers for very cheap $$$.

Isn't amost worth more dumping Crede's contract for anything right now rather than losing Field's cheap year of service this season?

It's Dankerific
03-19-2008, 05:52 PM
question regarding service time:

Josh Fields will lose a year of service time this year regardless if he is here or in Charlotte, is this correct?


This is very costly IMO because you lose a guy for a year who can produce very good numbers for very cheap $$$.

Isn't amost worth more dumping Crede's contract for anything right now rather than losing Field's cheap year of service this season?

I'm pretty sure if he sits in AAA you don't gain MLB service time.

Daver
03-19-2008, 06:05 PM
question regarding service time:

Josh Fields will lose a year of service time this year regardless if he is here or in Charlotte, is this correct?



That is not correct, and if he spends the entire season in Charlotte I beleive the Sox still have an option year.

Frontman
03-19-2008, 06:23 PM
I'm not sold on Fields being a major league 3rd basemen. Anyway when Crede leaves you'll have the money to sign someone better than Fields will ever be at 3rd.

Again the philosophy of Kenny Williams just shopping for players at the local store. "Just sign someone better."

:rolleyes:

turners56
03-19-2008, 06:52 PM
This is a terrible idea.

I like how some of you are thinking that Fields' 07 season was a fluke and that his lack of ability to hit off speed pitches and play a gold glover third base will haunt him forever. Just for the record, not every 3B is a gold glove third baseman, Crede is one of a kind on defense, but whether or not his health will hold up is still a big question. In addition, Crede has had one stellar offensive season. One! What Fields did last year as a rookie is phenomenal. Remember Crede's first couple of years? Yea, pop ups taller than the stadium being caught by a infielder and slumps that lasted for as much as a whole month. Crede had his offensive problems and he doesn't have the kind of power Fields provides. It took over 4 years for Crede to show true offensive production, Fields posted numbers last year that surpassed anything Crede had done in his 4 season before 2006 in only 373 ABs. My point is, Fields has way more potential to produce in this league than Joe ever did. Fields' mediocre defense isn't going to cost this team that much in the future anyhow, I don't see the reason for these Josh Fields can't play defense posts (He isn't Ryan Braun).

Trading Fields would be a huge mistake. He's cheap, he's shown that's he's productive, and his up-side is through the roof. I like Crede a lot, I will never forget his terrific play down the stretch in 05 and his epic playoff performances. But, Crede is getting up near 30 and Fields is still a fresh young body at the age of 25. Trading Fields and keeping Crede is not only financial suicide, it could also mean losing a big time producer on offense in the future.

Save McCuddy's
03-19-2008, 07:13 PM
If Fields is the hitter and productive player that most of us project that he is, then he should be on this team to start the year regardless of when we get Crede traded. I don't want to hear about his psyche and defensive woes -- if he wants to be in the bigs, he should be able to deal with being platooned and shifted around a bit for now.

As I've ranted before, he will get plenty of opportunities to play if you spot him in left, at dh and a game or so at third each week. Crede will need a sub in the early going anyways.

Daver
03-19-2008, 07:20 PM
If Fields is the hitter and productive player that most of us project that he is, then he should be on this team to start the year regardless of when we get Crede traded. I don't want to hear about his psyche and defensive woes -- if he wants to be in the bigs, he should be able to deal with being platooned and shifted around a bit for now.

As I've ranted before, he will get plenty of opportunities to play if you spot him in left, at dh and a game or so at third each week. Crede will need a sub in the early going anyways.

Did you watch Fields play left last year?

You'd be better off having Spuds MacKenzie out there.

LoveYourSuit
03-19-2008, 07:31 PM
That is not correct, and if he spends the entire season in Charlotte I beleive the Sox still have an option year.


OK, I thought any guy who sits on the 40 man roster has his service time clock ticking regardless of where they play.

But odds are the Sox will eventually go down to get him once they need a RH bat in late August, then service time is lost there I would assume.

Daver
03-19-2008, 08:04 PM
OK, I thought any guy who sits on the 40 man roster has his service time clock ticking regardless of where they play.

But odds are the Sox will eventually go down to get him once they need a RH bat in late August, then service time is lost there I would assume.

If they wait till September, he accrues no service time, and does not lose an option.

Save McCuddy's
03-19-2008, 08:43 PM
Did you watch Fields play left last year?

You'd be better off having Spuds MacKenzie out there.

Actually, I did. I found it no more painful than watching Carlos Lee out there -- and, I'm not suggesting that he be an everyday outfielder. I believe that both Fields and the White Sox are better suited with him getting major league at bats and not another run through AAA.

LoveYourSuit
03-19-2008, 10:34 PM
Joe is the Third Best 3B in Sox history. Play him until he drops.

1.Robin Ventura
2.Bill Melton
3.Joe Crede
4.Pete Ward
5. Willie Kamm


BS, where the hell is Carlos Martinez on that list?

Trav
03-19-2008, 11:11 PM
If Fields has so much value then see what you can get for him; possibly some quality pitching. Roll the dice with Crede, and worst case scenario we're looking for a 3rd basemen next year.

I'm with you. If they are going to keep a healthy load of DH/1B with huge contracts, I would much rather the Sox have a quality third baseman. If Fields could bring in some pitching the team will be stronger.

I think the best thing to do would be to trade Konerko or Thome and move Fields to first, but I don't see that happening.

kittle42
03-20-2008, 12:06 AM
BS, where the hell is Carlos Martinez on that list?

Half of WSI would probably put Kenny Williams on that list.

And really, I think the Crede love is yet another leftover effect from 2005.

chaerulez
03-20-2008, 12:27 AM
I'm with you. If they are going to keep a healthy load of DH/1B with huge contracts, I would much rather the Sox have a quality third baseman. If Fields could bring in some pitching the team will be stronger.

I think the best thing to do would be to trade Konerko or Thome and move Fields to first, but I don't see that happening.

Well trading Konerko or Thome would make more sense than trading Fields away.

Again, I still don't understand the logic in trading away a promising player that will make under $1 million the next three (or is it two) seasons. You need value players like this to make a good team. The Indians have done it with having a cheap young core in Sizemore, Hafner, Martinez... they let those guys play a few years in rookie deals and then signed them to cheap long term deals before arbitration. Now they have Carmona on the cheap for at least a couple years. Same goes for the Tigers with Granderson, Verlander, Bonderman, Zumaya, etc.

Look at how much of a value we're getting for Jenks. How much is he making this year around half a million? Jenks on the open market right how would be at least $8 million a year, probably more towards $10.