PDA

View Full Version : Opening Day Lineup?


MisterB
03-18-2008, 11:25 AM
Considering Ozzie's recent comments concerning Richar, et al., it seems that the bulk of the roster is pretty much set, with the only decisions left being the back ends of the bullpen and the bench.

So here's my stab at the opening day lineup for your 2008 Chicago White Sox:

LF Ozuna
SS Cabrera
DH Thome
1B Konerko
CF Swisher
RF Dye
C Pierzynski
3B Crede
2B Uribe

I figure with Sabathia pitching, OG would go with Ozuna regardless of whether Owens is healthy or not. The trade market for Crede is looking ice cold, so he stays for now.

As for the lineup for game #2... :dunno:

kittle42
03-18-2008, 11:31 AM
I see no scenario other than mass injuries where Ozuna plays the outfield ever again.

FedEx227
03-18-2008, 11:33 AM
I see no scenario other than mass injuries where Ozuna plays the outfield ever again.

If only for our sanity.

soxfan21
03-18-2008, 11:34 AM
I see no scenario other than mass injuries where Ozuna plays the outfield ever again.

I agree, here's my stab at the lineup:

CF Owens
SS Cabrera
1B Konerko
DH Thome
RF Dye
LF Swisher
3B Crede
C Pierzynski
2B Uribe

sox1970
03-18-2008, 11:37 AM
If Uribe and Crede stay:

Ozuna DH
Cabrera SS
Swisher LF
Konerko 1B
Dye RF
Crede 3B
Pierzynski C
Uribe 2B
Owens CF

voodoochile
03-18-2008, 11:46 AM
If Uribe and Crede stay:

Ozuna DH
Cabrera SS
Swisher LF
Konerko 1B
Dye RF
Crede 3B
Pierzynski C
Uribe 2B
Owens CF

:thud:

Here's a thought, why not put Ozuna at 2B if you really want him leading off then either Anderson or Owens can play the OF and bat 9th if Quentin isn't on the team.

sox1970
03-18-2008, 11:51 AM
:thud:

Here's a thought, why not put Ozuna at 2B if you really want him leading off then either Anderson or Owens can play the OF and bat 9th if Quentin isn't on the team.

Uribe is a better fielder than Ozuna. Ozuna hits Sabathia well.

Thome can't hit Sabathia, so he comes off the bench.

Quentin starts the year at AAA, as a quasi-rehab assignment. I just don't think he's had enough playing time this spring.

Owens, being a lefty, bats 9th off CC. If Anderson makes the team, then maybe he starts in CF and bats 9th too. I hate Anderson, so I really don't want him on the team.

balke
03-18-2008, 11:59 AM
Glad someone started the thread because I was thinking about this earlier. If things stay on pace, then to start the year I see these lineups. Obviously, there's a lot of different possibilities, but in my head I see this right now as the starting versus left-handers and starting versus right handers.

V. Lefties

SS Cabrera
LF Swisher
1B Konerko
RF Dye
DH Thome
3B Fields
2B Ozuna
C Hall/AJ
CF Anderson

V. Righties


LF Owens
SS Cabrera
DH Thome
1B Konerko
RF Dye
CF Swisher
3B Fields
C Pierzynski
2B Uribe

In all reality, trades can still happen, Anderson can go into a slump, and Ozzie will make 100 lineups for 100 games regardless. So really its all just a guess. I don't think Ozzie will sit Thome early in the season v. lefties. I don't think he'll move him below 6th either. If Anderson hits very well, I can see him in CF a lot v. righties too. Putting Swisher in LF and having a capable hitter/fielder in CF would be nice.

kittle42
03-18-2008, 12:14 PM
Anyone who thinks Thome isn't playing basically 6 times a week is also nutty. No matter what you think about his ability v. lefties, Ozzie will play him.

sox1970
03-18-2008, 12:19 PM
Anyone who thinks Thome isn't playing basically 6 times a week is also nutty. No matter what you think about his ability v. lefties, Ozzie will play him.

The Sox will face Sabathia, Willis, and Robertson in the first week. Possibly Liriano and Kenny Rogers when they come home in week 2.

He's definitely not going to sit against all of them, but considering Ozuna hits Sabathia, and Thome has never had a hit against Sabathia, I think it's a smart move to just have Thome come off the bench in that game.

rdivaldi
03-18-2008, 12:20 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but an infield defense of Crede - Cabrera - Uribe - Konerko is mighty impressive. Best in baseball? Top 5?

soxwon
03-18-2008, 12:20 PM
its not about if we can hit them, its if they can hit us baby.
prediction awesome start, in first at the end of april.
we are the team to catch, see if you can detwoit, cleveland !!!
all the way my friends, its been written in the baseball testament-a.
2008 Da year Da Sox win It all part 2.

soxwon
03-18-2008, 12:21 PM
The Sox will face Sabathia, Willis, and Robertson in the first week. Possibly Liriano and Kenny Rogers when they come home in week 2.

He's definitely not going to sit against all of them, but considering Ozuna hits Sabathia, and Thome has never had a hit against Sabathia, I think it's a smart move to just have Thome come off the bench in that game.

thome takes sabathia yard in the first inning.
hell with the past, its now, thats a begining of history.

esbrechtel
03-18-2008, 01:00 PM
Glad someone started the thread because I was thinking about this earlier. If things stay on pace, then to start the year I see these lineups. Obviously, there's a lot of different possibilities, but in my head I see this right now as the starting versus left-handers and starting versus right handers.

V. Lefties

SS Cabrera
LF Swisher
1B Konerko
RF Dye
DH Thome
3B Fields
2B Ozuna
C Hall/AJ
CF Anderson

V. Righties


LF Owens
SS Cabrera
DH Thome
1B Konerko
RF Dye
CF Swisher
3B Fields
C Pierzynski
2B Uribe

In all reality, trades can still happen, Anderson can go into a slump, and Ozzie will make 100 lineups for 100 games regardless. So really its all just a guess. I don't think Ozzie will sit Thome early in the season v. lefties. I don't think he'll move him below 6th either. If Anderson hits very well, I can see him in CF a lot v. righties too. Putting Swisher in LF and having a capable hitter/fielder in CF would be nice.

I agree with these lineups but Why can't owens play CF and leave Swisher in left?

Tragg
03-18-2008, 01:07 PM
I'd like to see Quinten in left and Richar at 2d instead of Anderson, Owens or Uribe, to maximize our offense. Use the best hitters. The Sox had baseball's worst O last year.

Keep Anderson for off days and late innning D.
Trade or dump Uribe.

balke
03-18-2008, 01:57 PM
I'd like to see Quinten in left and Richar at 2d instead of Anderson, Owens or Uribe, to maximize our offense. Use the best hitters. The Sox had baseball's worst O last year.

Keep Anderson for off days and late innning D.
Trade or dump Uribe.

You gotta keep in mind the other side of that argument, where Anderson so far has arguably had the best Spring Training so far, possibly only bested by Swisher.

You ride the hot bat whenever, whoever. It happened with good results here not too long ago. Question is, does the bat stay hot?

I also don't see a dump or trade of a 5 million dollar 2Bman. The Sox are going to have to wait for someone to get desperate. Ramirez has been hitting the ball very well, Richar might be in AAA playing for his position back at season's start.

As far as Quentin goes, he may need to recover a little still and fine tune his game. Doesn't have to be permanent, but so far it doesn't look like he's the best option for the team at this very minute.

BRDSR
03-18-2008, 02:10 PM
LF Ozuna
SS Cabrera
DH Thome
1B Konerko
CF Swisher
RF Dye
C Pierzynski
3B Crede
2B Uribe



So...1-7 better score enough runs for all 9, because the bottom two are going to go 0-8 with four Ks.

ChiTownTrojan
03-18-2008, 02:42 PM
So...1-7 better score enough runs for all 9, because the bottom two are going to go 0-8 with four Ks.
I guess everyone on this board has a different pair of "least favorite" players.

ChiTownTrojan
03-18-2008, 02:50 PM
Here's what I know - you don't sit your clear starters and team leaders on opening day. Lefty or no lefty, Thome starts. Uribe on the other hand is neither a clear everyday starter or a team leader that others look up to. I wouldn't be surprised if he sat opening day to let Ozuna be our leadoff guy, even though I think he'll play more often than not to start the season. Here's my lineup:

Ozuna 2B
Cabrera SS
Swisher LF
Konerko 1B
Dye RF
Thome DH
AJ C
Crede 3B
Anderson CF

And as opposed to some other people on this board, I think having power in Crede and Anderson in the 8/9 spots would be a tremendous luxury.

Lip Man 1
03-18-2008, 07:19 PM
1. Owens - CF
2. Cabrerra - SS
3. Thome - DH
4. Konerko - 1B
5. Dye - RF
6. Swisher - LF
7. Crede - 3B
8. Pierzinski - C
9. Uribe - 2B

P - Buehrle

Lip

btrain929
03-18-2008, 07:57 PM
For Opening Day only:

1) Ozuna - 2B
2) Cabrera - SS
3) Thome - DH
4) Konerko - 1B
5) Swisher - LF
6) Dye - RF
7) AJ - C
8) Crede - 3B
9) Anderson/Ramirez - CF

Sargeant79
03-18-2008, 08:03 PM
1. Owens - CF
2. Cabrerra - SS
3. Thome - DH
4. Konerko - 1B
5. Dye - RF
6. Swisher - LF
7. Crede - 3B
8. Pierzinski - C
9. Uribe - 2B

P - Buehrle

Lip

I second that. I think the only way the opening day lineup doesn't look like this is if Crede and/or Uribe are traded. (Neither of which I think is likely at the moment)

btrain929
03-18-2008, 08:16 PM
I second that. I think the only way the opening day lineup doesn't look like this is if Crede and/or Uribe are traded. (Neither of which I think is likely at the moment)

I'll bet money that Ozuna is in the opening day lineup, probably at 2B. The guy has ridiculously impressive numbers against CC (for our team, at least). The only way he isn't is if CC suffers an injury and Carmona is the starter.

ChiTownTrojan
03-19-2008, 01:10 AM
I'll bet money that Ozuna is in the opening day lineup, probably at 2B. The guy has ridiculously impressive numbers against CC (for our team, at least). The only way he isn't is if CC suffers an injury and Carmona is the starter.
And on that note, if Ozuna is in, that means Owens isn't. I highly doubt we'll see the two of them out there together this year, esp because Ozuna hits lefties better and Owens hits righties better.

MISoxfan
03-19-2008, 08:15 AM
Not to hijack the thread, but an infield defense of Crede - Cabrera - Uribe - Konerko is mighty impressive. Best in baseball? Top 5?

That infield along with a Swisher Anderson Dye outfield is a pretty decent fielding team overall.

ChiTownTrojan
03-19-2008, 11:36 AM
That infield along with a Swisher Anderson Dye outfield is a pretty decent fielding team overall.
It's better than decent. I can't remember the Sox ever having that strong of a defense. With that lineup, there really isn't a hole anywhere. This is what I expect to be the "everyday" lineup (barring any trades), though we all know how likely it is that Ozzie puts the same lineup out every day.

btrain929
03-19-2008, 12:26 PM
It's better than decent. I can't remember the Sox ever having that strong of a defense. With that lineup, there really isn't a hole anywhere. This is what I expect to be the "everyday" lineup (barring any trades), though we all know how likely it is that Ozzie puts the same lineup out every day.

The only question is if Anderson and Uribe can hit enough so they can contribute their defense to our team on a full-time basis. I'd like to think that they've turned the corner this spring and this is a preview of what they'll do in the regular season, but that would definitely be too optimistic.

EndemicSox
03-19-2008, 06:49 PM
The vast majority of the balls leaving Anderson's bat this spring have been frozen ropes. It certainly appears as though the corner has been turned, and he has flat out earned the CF job, but stranger things have happened. If Ozzie wants to roll with Owens, or Swish, in center, so be it...but I think the smart money, and the best move for the future of this franchise, is to see if Anderson is the real deal. I just don't see the upside with Owens...

EDIT: Anderson simply crushing every pitch coming his way, should be a lock for the starting CF spot at this point, but then again, who knows...

Chisox003
03-19-2008, 08:23 PM
The vast majority of the balls leaving Anderson's bat this spring have been frozen ropes. It certainly appears as though the corner has been turned, and he has flat out earned the CF job, but stranger things have happened. If Ozzie wants to roll with Owens, or Swish, in center, so be it...but I think the smart money, and the best move for the future of this franchise, is to see if Anderson is the real deal. I just don't see the upside with Owens...

EDIT: Anderson simply crushing every pitch coming his way, should be a lock for the starting CF spot at this point, but then again, who knows...
No kidding. Assuming he keeps it going, here's what I'd go with:

Ozuna 2B
Cabrera SS
Thome DH
Konerko 1B
Dye RF
Swisher LF
Crede 3B
Pierzynski C
Anderson CF

With Ramirez at AAA working at second base. Not only does this lineup have a good mix, the defense will be outstanding...

thomas35forever
03-19-2008, 08:38 PM
Is Ozuna ready to play every day? I guess the way I see it, he'll be the fastest guy in the lineup unless Owens breaks camp, which I don't see happening. If Owens is on the final roster however, he would probably lead off and Ramirez or Richar would start at second and bat ninth.

Ozuna leads off and plays second if Anderson makes the cut and Owens is the odd man out. Anderson likewise, would bat ninth.

ChiTownTrojan
03-20-2008, 09:33 AM
With Ramirez at AAA working at second base. Not only does this lineup have a good mix, the defense will be outstanding...
I think Richar has got the starting 2B slot at Charlotte locked up. If Ramirez is sent down (which looks unlikely at this point), he'd probably be playing more SS and CF.

ChiTownTrojan
03-20-2008, 09:35 AM
From the Trib:

Guillen also revealed that if the Sox opened the season Thursday against Cleveland, Ozuna would start at second and bat leadoff because of his speed and past success against Indians left-hander C.C. Sabathia.

russ99
03-20-2008, 09:56 AM
With Uribe placed on waivers yesterday, I'd think Kenny has something lined up.

Though it could be more just sending out feelers to see if anyone's interested.

I wonder if the Sox would take a shot with a Ozuna/Ramirez platoon at 2B until Richar gets healthy...

Tragg
03-20-2008, 12:02 PM
Now we have a .322 career OBP hitter leading off. 2 career homers.
But he has a 4% walk rate, which makes him ideal for Ozzie's offense.
Why did the Sox trade Cunningham et al for Richar and Quentin again? Why does Williams acquire OBP, when Ozzie wants aggressive slap hitting?

rdivaldi
03-20-2008, 02:09 PM
Why did the Sox trade Cunningham et al for Richar and Quentin again?

:?: Have you seen the OBP of Quentin over his career? The guy has gotten on base at a .400+ clip all through the minors. Cunningham would have done very little for us this season as well, he's not ready for the bigs yet.

CWSpalehoseCWS
03-20-2008, 02:26 PM
Considering Ozzie's recent comments concerning Richar, et al., it seems that the bulk of the roster is pretty much set, with the only decisions left being the back ends of the bullpen and the bench.

So here's my stab at the opening day lineup for your 2008 Chicago White Sox:

LF Ozuna
SS Cabrera
DH Thome
1B Konerko
CF Swisher
RF Dye
C Pierzynski
3B Crede
2B Uribe

I figure with Sabathia pitching, OG would go with Ozuna regardless of whether Owens is healthy or not. The trade market for Crede is looking ice cold, so he stays for now.

As for the lineup for game #2... :dunno:

I read somewhere that Ozuna will bat leadoff, but play 2B.

Hitmen77
03-20-2008, 04:57 PM
What do people expect our 25 man roster to be on opening day? Is this what we're looking at?:

Pitchers: Buehrle, Vazquez, Contreras, Danks, Floyd, Jenks, Linebrink, Dotel, Thornton, Logan, MacDougal, Wasserman/Massett

Position Players: Konerko, Thome, Cabrera, Crede/Fields, Dye, Owens, Swisher, AJ, Hall, Ozuna, Ramirez, Anderson, Quentin

DL: Richar

I put the ones I wasn't sure about in bold. What do people think? Do the Sox keep Uribe and send Ramirez to AAA to work on his fielding?

I'm going to guess that Crede is not traded and Fields goes to AAA and that Wasserman makes the team and Massett is traded or waived.

sox1970
03-20-2008, 05:02 PM
What do people expect our 25 man roster to be on opening day? Is this what we're looking at?:

Pitchers: Buehrle, Vazquez, Contreras, Danks, Floyd, Jenks, Linebrink, Dotel, Thornton, Logan, MacDougal, Wasserman/Massett

Position Players: Konerko, Thome, Cabrera, Crede/Fields, Dye, Owens, Swisher, AJ, Hall, Ozuna, Ramirez, Anderson, Quentin

DL: Richar

I put the ones I wasn't sure about in bold. What do people think? Do the Sox keep Uribe and send Ramirez to AAA to work on his fielding?

I'm going to guess that Crede is not traded and Fields goes to AAA and that Wasserman makes the team and Massett is traded or waived.

Out of the 32 on the spring training roster, the 7 that aren't on the team right now are:

Fields, Quentin, Richar, Uribe, Wassermann, Carrasco, and Phillips.

Crede over Fields for now.
Anderson over Quentin for now. He may go on the DL or AAA to play for a while.
Uribe...gone somehow
Richar...DL
Masset over Carrasco and Wassermann....but I hope you're right about Masset. Can't stand him.

Alexei Ramirez and Jason Bourgeois will make the team...as of now.

EndemicSox
03-20-2008, 09:02 PM
Out of the 32 on the spring training roster, the 7 that aren't on the team right now are:

Fields, Quentin, Richar, Uribe, Wassermann, Carrasco, and Phillips.

Crede over Fields for now.
Anderson over Quentin for now. He may go on the DL or AAA to play for a while.
Uribe...gone somehow
Richar...DL
Masset over Carrasco and Wassermann....but I hope you're right about Masset. Can't stand him.

Alexei Ramirez and Jason Bourgeois will make the team...as of now.

Looks spot on, imo...don't like what Masset is selling as well...

WhiteSoxFan84
03-21-2008, 05:09 AM
1) AfroThunder (Owens) - CF
2) OC - SS
3) Mr. Incredible - DH
4) Paulie Walnuts - 1B
5) Live or Let Dye - RF
6) The Make a Swish Foundation - LF
7) The Clutchmeister (Crede) - 3B
8) MLB's Most Hated - C
9) CMV (Cuba's Most Versatile - Alexei) - 2B


That'd be my EVERYDAY lineup.
But my Opening Day vs. LH C.C. Sabathia you ask?....

1) O-Zuuunaaa - 2B
2) OC - SS
3) Paulie Walnuts - 1B
4) Live or Let Dye - RF
5) Mr. Incredible - DH
6) The Make a Swish Foundation - LF
7) The Clutchmeister (Crede) - 3B
8) Toby Keith Hall - C
9) BA (Bad Ass, Brian Anderson) - CF

ChiTownTrojan
03-21-2008, 10:52 AM
Looks spot on, imo...don't like what Masset is selling as well...
If Massett makes the team, it is only because he's out of options and the club doesn't want to lose him for nothing. He hasn't exactly won a position this spring. If there is a deal made in the next week or two, I expect he'll be part of it. Hey, the O's know they're not going to content this year anyway, so what do they care if he gets his lumps in the minors or in Baltimore? He still has some potential.

hi im skot
03-21-2008, 10:55 AM
1) AfroThunder (Owens) - CF
2) OC - SS
3) Mr. Incredible - DH
4) Paulie Walnuts - 1B
5) Live or Let Dye - RF
6) The Make a Swish Foundation - LF
7) The Clutchmeister (Crede) - 3B
8) MLB's Most Hated - C
9) CMV (Cuba's Most Versatile - Alexei) - 2B


That'd be my EVERYDAY lineup.
But my Opening Day vs. LH C.C. Sabathia you ask?....

1) O-Zuuunaaa - 2B
2) OC - SS
3) Paulie Walnuts - 1B
4) Live or Let Dye - RF
5) Mr. Incredible - DH
6) The Make a Swish Foundation - LF
7) The Clutchmeister (Crede) - 3B
8) Toby Keith Hall - C
9) BA (Bad Ass, Brian Anderson) - CF

Ugh.

Can we ban Chris Berman from this board?

kittle42
03-21-2008, 10:56 AM
Ugh.

Can we ban Chris Berman from this board?

Or just from the world generally?

hi im skot
03-21-2008, 10:57 AM
Or just from the world generally?

Nah, we need him for Deadspin fodder.

Chicken Dinner
03-21-2008, 10:58 AM
I think the two scariest guys right now are the Ex KC pitchers Doogie and Dotel. These guys have been walking guys and giving up a lot of runs. There's only about a week of ST left and right now our bullpen is in trouble.

ChiTownTrojan
03-21-2008, 11:04 AM
I don't really worry about stats for veteran pitchers like Dotel so much. McDougal on the other hand has sucked for a year plus. If he makes this team (still up in the air), I don't think he'll ever be put out there in any type of meaningful situation, and unless he gets his **** in order, he'll be gone by June.

kittle42
03-21-2008, 11:05 AM
The starting pitching has 3 question marks and the bullpen is still possibly shaky. But hey, we have Alexei Ramirez! :bandance:

Bucky F. Dent
03-21-2008, 11:30 AM
C - AJ
1B - Konerko
2B - Uribe
3B - Crede
SS - Cabrera
LF - Swisher
CF - Anderson
RF - Dye
DH - Thome

Bench
Hall
Ramirez
Ozuna
Owens

Starters
Buehrle
Vazquez
Contreras
Danks
Floyd

Bullpen
Wasserman
MacDougal
Logan
Thornton
Dotel
Linebrink
Jenks

Richar & Quentin on the DL

hi im skot
03-21-2008, 11:32 AM
^
That looks about right.

sox1970
03-21-2008, 11:49 AM
Dent--

As much as I want Masset to be traded, the Sox are going to need a long reliever, and that would mean Wassermann is on the outside right now.

I agree otherwise now that Uribe has been pulled off waivers.

RowanDye
03-21-2008, 12:56 PM
Dent--

As much as I want Masset to be traded, the Sox are going to need a long reliever, and that would mean Wassermann is on the outside right now.

I agree otherwise now that Uribe has been pulled off waivers.

From the Ramirez story (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080320-alexei-ramirez-white-sox,1,2327279.story) in the Trib:

"I think the [last] guy should be my best guy," Guillen said. "Why have a long man when he's [messed] up? I would rather have one guy pitch one good inning than a guy that gets beat up for three."

I think that last start really hurt Masset's chances, but it's not like Wassermann has been lights out either. This will be a last minute decision.

Also, like it or not, I think Owens is the starting CF. It doesn't really mean a whole lot though, because there will be a lot of rotation between Swisher/Owens/Anderson between CF/LF. I just think that certain comments from the coaching staff make it sound like Owens is still ahead of Anderson on the depth chart.

ChiTownTrojan
03-21-2008, 01:02 PM
Also, like it or not, I think Owens is the starting CF. It doesn't really mean a whole lot though, because there will be a lot of rotation between Swisher/Owens/Anderson between CF/LF. I just think that certain comments from the coaching staff make it sound like Owens is still ahead of Anderson on the depth chart.
Let's say hypothetically that Owens wins the 3rd OF spot. Who plays CF and who plays LF? I haven't seen any spring training games, so I don't know how Swisher has looked out there.

Bucky F. Dent
03-21-2008, 02:36 PM
Also, like it or not, I think Owens is the starting CF. It doesn't really mean a whole lot though, because there will be a lot of rotation between Swisher/Owens/Anderson between CF/LF. I just think that certain comments from the coaching staff make it sound like Owens is still ahead of Anderson on the depth chart.


Yep. And I don't understand it. Anderson is better defensively and he has had a really nice spring at the plate. I know that he has done that in the past and fallen flat in the regular season, but relative to Owens, I think you give BA the shot in center.

turners56
03-21-2008, 02:40 PM
Considering Ozzie's recent comments concerning Richar, et al., it seems that the bulk of the roster is pretty much set, with the only decisions left being the back ends of the bullpen and the bench.

So here's my stab at the opening day lineup for your 2008 Chicago White Sox:

LF Ozuna
SS Cabrera
DH Thome
1B Konerko
CF Swisher
RF Dye
C Pierzynski
3B Crede
2B Uribe

I figure with Sabathia pitching, OG would go with Ozuna regardless of whether Owens is healthy or not. The trade market for Crede is looking ice cold, so he stays for now.

As for the lineup for game #2... :dunno:

Crede is gonna end up staying. That lineup looks like something Ozzie would put together against a lefty (Ozuna will end up leading off, no way Owens is gonna play against Sabathia). Although Uribe is probably cut...so put Ramirez at 2B.

Lillian
03-21-2008, 10:56 PM
Although Pablo will start against C. C., I think there is a much more compelling option against the rest of the League's Lefties. Nick Swisher had almost a .460 OBP last season. Why not use him as the Leadoff hitter vs. Lefties? The stolen base is less of a factor versus Lefties anyway, so having the speedster leading off against them is not really that important.
That terrific On Base Percentage would look awfully good vs. all the Central Division's tough Lefties, who give the Sox such a bad time. And of course, leading off will produce a few more at bats over the course of a season. Reaching base at a .460 rate merits trying to get as many at bats as possible.

At the very least, Anderson should start against all the Lefties, when Swisher is leading off. Owens hasn't been that good, especially versus Lefties, so let him sit on those days, and go with the better defense afforded by Anderson being in Center.
If Brian does well enough, perhaps he can earn the CF job on a full time basis.

PS. Sorry I misspelled "monster".

btrain929
03-21-2008, 10:59 PM
Crede is gonna end up staying. That lineup looks like something Ozzie would put together against a lefty (Ozuna will end up leading off, no way Owens is gonna play against Sabathia). Although Uribe is probably cut...so put Ramirez at 2B.

I'm pretty sure OG already said that Ozuna will not be in the outfield this year. So if he's in the game, it'll be at 2B or at 3B giving Crede the occasional day off.

sox1970
03-21-2008, 11:11 PM
Thome should be sitting, but Ozzie will have this lineup:

Ozuna 2B
Cabrera SS
Thome DH
Konerko 1B
Dye RF
Swisher LF
Crede 3B
AJP C
Anderson CF

Bench: Ramirez, Hall, Owens, Uribe

Lillian
03-22-2008, 08:45 AM
As a follow up to my previous post, Nick Swisher has a combined On Base Percentage versus Lefties, over the last two years of .433. It was .458 last year, and .406 in 2006. It covers 242 total at bats. I wonder how good the Lefties were in his Division over that span of time. Does anyone know?

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that he really should lead off against Lefties. Forget about the stolen bases. Just get on, let Cabrera get him over with a bunt, or a hit and run, and let Dye, Konerko, Fields and Crede drive him in. Note that I said Fields, not Thome, as I still would rather that they kept Josh on the roster, and platooned him at DH. Thome is absolutely horrible vs. Lefties, against whom Fields was very good last year. But that is another subject.
This all brings up the subject of Pablo Ozuna. I love Pablo, but if we are going to start Ramirez at Second, and Uribe as a utility infielder, then I would prefer to have Fields, than Pablo. He is a better option as Crede's back up at 3RD, and a more valuable offensive weapon. Moreover, Owens should be the first choice as a pinch runner, whenever he is not starting. This makes Pablo more expendable than Josh. Of course if we can find a taker for Uribe, I'd place Pablo back on the bench.

Here is my line up versus Lefties:

LF Swisher
SS Cabrera
RF Dye
1ST Konerko
DH Fields
3RD Crede
C A. J. (when Hall plays he bats 9th)
CF B. Anderson
2ND Ramirez

Having Fields in the middle of the order would also break up that log jam of slow base runners.


In any case, Swisher would be best utilized as the Lead Off hitter versus Lefties.

JohnTucker0814
03-22-2008, 09:12 AM
Alright, I'll bite and give this a shot...

Opening day vs. Sabathia:

2b - Ozuna
ss - Cabrera
lf - Swisher
1b - Konerko
rf - Dye
dh - Thome
3b - Crede/Fields
c - Pierzynski
cf - Ramirez

vs. Right Handed Pitchers

cf - Owens
ss - cabrera
lf - swisher
dh - thome
1b - konerko
rf - dye
3b - crede/fields
c - pierzynski
2b - ramirez

I actually love that last line-up... look at the speed on that team, minus Konerko, A.J, Thome... (if Fields is at 3b)

I want swisher batting 3rd instead of Thome. With his OBP and at least a little bit of speed, that top 3 would be dangerous. I also feel like it would give Thome & Konerko a lot more RBI opps...

btrain929
03-22-2008, 11:52 AM
Alright, I'll bite and give this a shot...

Opening day vs. Sabathia:

2b - Ozuna
ss - Cabrera
lf - Swisher
1b - Konerko
rf - Dye
dh - Thome
3b - Crede/Fields
c - Pierzynski
cf - Ramirez

vs. Right Handed Pitchers

cf - Owens
ss - cabrera
lf - swisher
dh - thome
1b - konerko
rf - dye
3b - crede/fields
c - pierzynski
2b - ramirez

I actually love that last line-up... look at the speed on that team, minus Konerko, A.J, Thome... (if Fields is at 3b)

I want swisher batting 3rd instead of Thome. With his OBP and at least a little bit of speed, that top 3 would be dangerous. I also feel like it would give Thome & Konerko a lot more RBI opps...

With that last lineup, when you only have 3 lefties in the lineup, I don't think you can afford to have 2 of them back to back (swisher/thome). Of all the spring training lineups this year, the only time I've seen Swisher bat 3rd is when Thome is out of the lineup.

If Owens is leading off, you'll probably see Swisher batting 5th for a middle of the order of Thome-Konerko-Swisher-Dye. Swisher has also led off a decent amount of times, and wouldn't 100% rule that out if, let's say, BA grabs the CF position and doesn't let go of it. That would actually be the best case scenario for BA, because you KNOW he will see some good pitches to hit with Swisher on-deck if BA bats 9th...

soltrain21
03-22-2008, 11:56 AM
Alright, I'll bite and give this a shot...

Opening day vs. Sabathia:

2b - Ozuna
ss - Cabrera
lf - Swisher
1b - Konerko
rf - Dye
dh - Thome
3b - Crede/Fields
c - Pierzynski
cf - Ramirez

vs. Right Handed Pitchers

cf - Owens
ss - cabrera
lf - swisher
dh - thome
1b - konerko
rf - dye
3b - crede/fields
c - pierzynski
2b - ramirez

I actually love that last line-up... look at the speed on that team, minus Konerko, A.J, Thome... (if Fields is at 3b)

I want swisher batting 3rd instead of Thome. With his OBP and at least a little bit of speed, that top 3 would be dangerous. I also feel like it would give Thome & Konerko a lot more RBI opps...

If Alexei is going to start, he needs to start at one position and one position only.

btrain929
03-22-2008, 11:58 AM
If Alexei is going to start, he needs to start at one position and one position only.

I agree. He can help out if we have injuries or if Owens AND Anderson fall on their faces, but as of right now, 90% of his playing time will come at 2B with Cabrera being very durable at SS and us having Owens/BA/Swisher for CF.

SteveFakeBlood
03-22-2008, 02:54 PM
It seems like every year to start the season the Sox lineup is quite a mess...

Everyone's putting their opening day line-ups, but I figured since starting out against a lefty will throw things off, I'll dodge the question and just do my best stab at an everyday lineup (which of course, given the team's depth and Ozzie's machinations is pretty much impossible...)

CF Owens
SS Cabrera
LF Swisher
DH Thome
1B Konerko
RF Dye
C Pierzynski
3B Crede
2B Uribe

Anderson might deserve one last shot in Center given his spring and his glove, and personally, I think Ramirez's bat has earned him a starting spot at second. However, Owens' explosive speed makes him an ideal leadoff man if he can actually get somewhere around a .280/.340 AVG/OBP. And as many fond memories as I have of Crede or Uribe, I think it's their time to go and give way to Fields and Ramirez, but both of them are pretty much impossible to trade right now....

~Steve

Dan Mega
03-22-2008, 03:52 PM
Anderson might deserve one last shot in Center given his spring and his glove


Anderson is twice the CF that Owens is. I really think him and his glove should be out there given that its a hitters park and a suspect staff. We don't know what this pitching staff will bring to the table yet, be it good or bad.

Lillian
03-22-2008, 05:59 PM
I hate to beat a "dead horse" on this insistance that Thome not play vs. Lefties, and that Swisher Lead Off on those days, however.....!

Look, Thome's combined stats for the last 4 years are just awful versus Lefties. In a total of 595 at bats he has 77 walks, 190 strike outs.
Even if you throw out the injury shortened 2005 stats, he has a combined On Base Percentage of about .330 and a batting average of .219.

That compares with Swisher's combined stats for the last two years of .433 OBP and .291 Avg. His OBP is 100 points higher than Thome's.

Again, I say; "Forget about stolen bases vs. Lefties. Just get on, and let the rest of the guys get you over, and in.

Alright, I'll stop now, I promise.

cards press box
03-22-2008, 06:20 PM
I hate to beat a "dead horse" on this insistance that Thome not play vs. Lefties, and that Swisher Lead Off on those days, however.....!

Look, Thome's combined stats for the last 4 years are just awful versus Lefties. In a total of 595 at bats he has 77 walks, 190 strike outs.
Even if you throw out the injury shortened 2005 stats, he has a combined On Base Percentage of about .330 and a batting average of .219.

That compares with Swisher's combined stats for the last two years of .433 OBP and .291 Avg. His OBP is 100 points higher than Thome's.

Again, I say; "Forget about stolen bases vs. Lefties. Just get on, and let the rest of the guys get you over, and in.

Alright, I'll stop now, I promise.

Hasn't Guillen suggested that Carlos Quentin may DH against some lefties? Alternatively, I could see Dye DH against lefties with Quentin playing RF. Either way, the Sox could sit Thome against certain lefthanders.

btrain929
03-22-2008, 07:20 PM
This just in: Dye has ****ing sucked this spring.

He's batting about .160 and ****ed up 2 fly balls today.

"It's just spring..."

I don't give a ****. Get your head out of your ass before you're repeating the 1st half of '07.

:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

sox1970
03-22-2008, 07:26 PM
^

Eh, that's typical spring training. The sun is murder there.

sox1970
03-22-2008, 09:23 PM
Ozzie has come to his senses about dropping Thome in the llineup:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080322&content_id=2452090&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Lillian
03-22-2008, 10:24 PM
Ozzie has come to his senses about dropping Thome in the llineup:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080322&content_id=2452090&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Well, that's a start. I rest my case.

Tragg
03-23-2008, 12:56 AM
These lineups with Owens and Uribe: a lot of at bats to outmakers.

And if 2007 for Dye was reality, not a fluke, then this offense is Swisher, Thome and Konerko....aka 2007 redux. With only 3 or 4 real producers, outs need to be minimized, not maximized. Williams says "We can't afford to waste at-bats"...has he told that to Ozzie?

Jerko
03-23-2008, 01:06 AM
Leave the ****ing lineup alone because if you start playing this matchup bull**** in game one of the ****ing season, all that shows me is that you're ****ing scared of the other team. *** when's the last time Sizemore got moved down because he was facing a lefty? And it's not like he's a .330 hitter either. GMAB. Quit playing scared Ozzie. Same goes for your bullpen moves too.

ksimpson14
03-23-2008, 02:33 AM
My Sporting News magazine that came today had a team preview with a projected lineup of:

SS - Cabrera CF - Swisher 1B - Konerko DH - Thome RF - Dye 3B - Crede C - AJ LF - Owens 2B - Richar

Obviously they didn't know Richar would be hurt. With that set up, I still prefer Owens in center and Swisher in left. Also, not sure about Cabrera leading off, he just seems like the perfect 2 hole guy.

Their staff is: Buehrle Vazquez Danks Contreras Floyd

With their prospect to watch being Broadway, who they expect to see if one of the young guys struggles

ksimpson14
03-23-2008, 02:34 AM
Oh, and expletive expletive expletive!

MisterB
03-23-2008, 04:15 AM
Leave the ****ing lineup alone because if you start playing this matchup bull**** in game one of the ****ing season, all that shows me is that you're ****ing scared of the other team. *** when's the last time Sizemore got moved down because he was facing a lefty? And it's not like he's a .330 hitter either. GMAB. Quit playing scared Ozzie. Same goes for your bullpen moves too.

May I suggest switching to decaf? :dunno:

turners56
03-23-2008, 07:54 PM
Opening Day

1. 2B Ozuna
2. SS Cabrera
3. DH Thome
4. 1B Konerko
5. RF Dye
6. CF Swisher
7. 3B Crede
8. C Pierzynski
9. LF Quentin

Ozzie is probably going to stack as many righties as he can in there.

Everyday

1. CF Owens
2. SS Cabrera
3. DH Thome
4. 1B Konerko
5. RF Dye
6. LF Swisher
7. C Pierzynski
8. 3B Fields/Crede
9. 2B Ramirez

PalehosePlanet
03-23-2008, 08:03 PM
Opening Day

1. 2B Ozuna
2. SS Cabrera
3. DH Thome
4. 1B Konerko
5. RF Dye
6. CF Swisher
7. 3B Crede
8. C Pierzynski
9. LF Quentin

Ozzie is probably going to stack as many righties as he can in there.

Everyday

1. CF Owens
2. SS Cabrera
3. DH Thome
4. 1B Konerko
5. RF Dye
6. LF Swisher
7. C Pierzynski
8. 3B Fields/Crede
9. 2B Ramirez

You're probably right. However, personally I would rather see Fields, Quentin and Ramirez instead of Crede, Owens and Uribe in the lineup on most days.

sox1970
03-23-2008, 08:44 PM
Based on Ozzie's comments, I think Thome will be batting 5th on OD.

Ozuna
Cabrera
Swisher
Konerko
Thome
Dye
Pierzynski
Crede
Owens or Anderson

Qdiddy
03-23-2008, 09:22 PM
Here are my lineups. I like Thome in the 4th spot because all Konerko does is pop-up or ground into a double play. I know it will never happen, but I would also like to see Dye bat in front Konerko to break up log jam in Konerko and Thome.

1. 2B Ozuna
2. SS Cabrera
3. LF Swisher
4. DH Thome
5. 1B Konerko
6. RF Dye
7. 3B Crede
8. C Pierzynski
9. CF Ramirez

Everyday

1. CF Owens
2. SS Cabrera
3. DH Thome
4. 1B Konerko
5. RF Dye
6. LF Swisher
7. C Pierzynski
8. 3B Crede
9. 2B Ramirez

JB98
03-23-2008, 09:28 PM
Leave the ****ing lineup alone because if you start playing this matchup bull**** in game one of the ****ing season, all that shows me is that you're ****ing scared of the other team. *** when's the last time Sizemore got moved down because he was facing a lefty? And it's not like he's a .330 hitter either. GMAB. Quit playing scared Ozzie. Same goes for your bullpen moves too.

It's kinda funny. Hawk goes on and on about the cover-your-ass managing that goes on in the big leagues these days. I agree that there are examples of that every day during the season. But Hawk always acts like Ozzie isn't a part of that.

Look at the way Guillen manages his bullpen with all the lefty-righty crap. The first two years, Ozzie went with his gut. The last two years, he's been playing by the book.

I want the old Ozzie back.

sox1970
03-29-2008, 11:12 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080329&content_id=2466133&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

No Ozuna, after all. And I think Guillen is doing the right thing not playing Swisher in CF.

Swisher--LF
Cabrera--SS
Thome--DH (3 k's, gidp)
Konerko--1B
Dye--RF
Pierzynski--C
Ramirez--CF
Crede--3B
Uribe--2B

Uribe earned it this spring.

Tragg
03-29-2008, 11:21 PM
Uribe--2B

Uribe earned it this spring.
It's hard to understand how Uribe's good spring completely offsets his 4 years of bad offense; but others' good springs don't overcome 6 months of prior work. Is Uribe suddenly a good hitter?

What about putting Ramirez at 2nd base and playing the high-ceiling youngsters in the outfield (Quinten, Anderson) - but it remains nearly impossible to push veteran hackers out of this lineup.....didnt' happen last year and it won't this year.
And Williams' trades last year for Quentin and Richar are highly dubious today. And it has nothing to do with how good Quentin and Richar are.

sox1970
03-29-2008, 11:27 PM
It's hard to understand how Uribe's good spring completely offsets his 4 years of bad offense; but others' good springs don't overcome 6 months of prior work. Is Uribe suddenly a good hitter?

What about putting Ramirez at 2nd base and playing the high-ceiling youngsters in the outfield (Quinten, Anderson) - but it remains nearly impossible to push veteran hackers out of this lineup.....didnt' happen last year and it won't this year.
And Williams' trades last year for Quentin and Richar are highly dubious today. And it has nothing to do with how good Quentin and Richar are.

Uribe is the best defensive 2B the Sox have right now, and that has to count for something.

Chances are he's still being shopped, and Richar is still in the picture. But for now, I think Uribe needs to be in there.

JB98
03-29-2008, 11:28 PM
It's hard to understand how Uribe's good spring completely offsets his 4 years of bad offense; but others' good springs don't overcome 6 months of prior work. Is Uribe suddenly a good hitter?

What about putting Ramirez at 2nd base and playing the high-ceiling youngsters in the outfield (Quinten, Anderson) - but it remains nearly impossible to push veteran hackers out of this lineup.....didnt' happen last year and it won't this year.
And Williams' trades last year for Quentin and Richar are highly dubious today. And it has nothing to do with how good Quentin and Richar are.

Offensively, there is no justification for putting Uribe out there. However, second base is a defense-first position, and Uribe is better than Ramirez at that particular position. That's the only reasonable explanation.

Tragg
03-29-2008, 11:44 PM
Offensively, there is no justification for putting Uribe out there. However, second base is a defense-first position, and Uribe is better than Ramirez at that particular position. That's the only reasonable explanation. I figured in the offseason that the only way that Uribe would not start at 2nd, was is if he was of this team. Ozzie loves his veteran hackers.

It's just not that hard to find a 2B who can field the position decently. You can't have SS offense at 2b. That's a killer.
And Ozzie's had no problem putting bad defense in CF...and if Ramirez starts, maybe it isn't bad D, but it isnt' close to the best he could have.

If Williams couldn't work out a trade in the winter or spring, I wouldn't think anything will happen until July.

southsideirish71
03-29-2008, 11:52 PM
Are we trying to put in the lineup with the least amount of success against CC?

So instead of putting Pablo in, who has what a .400BA and plus .900 OPS against CC. We are starting Uribe who is a .200, plus .500OPS hitter against CC.

Thome should wait a day to compete as well, he is 0-11 lifetime with 7ks and a .200ish OPS.

The only one on Monday that has any success against CC is Swisher.

sox1970
03-29-2008, 11:54 PM
The only one on Monday that has any success against CC is Swisher.

...and he's taking a 4 for 45 into the season.

JB98
03-29-2008, 11:58 PM
I figured in the offseason that the only way that Uribe would not start at 2nd, was is if he was of this team. Ozzie loves his veteran hackers.

It's just not that hard to find a 2B who can field the position decently. You can't have SS offense at 2b. That's a killer.
And Ozzie's had no problem putting bad defense in CF...and if Ramirez starts, maybe it isn't bad D, but it isnt' close to the best he could have.

If Williams couldn't work out a trade in the winter or spring, I wouldn't think anything will happen until July.

I think Ramirez can handle CF. I would be upset if he put Swisher out there. That would be unacceptable with me.

It sucks that Richar got hurt.

Tragg
03-30-2008, 12:12 AM
It sucks that Richar got hurt.
It does; but I think he'd be in AAA, barring a Uribe trade or waiver claim.
Ozzie never had much good to say about him; he kept him in the 9 hole all last year (when he easily could have moved him to give him better chances). He wasn't going to oust Uribe.
Sox seemed to react this offseason, instead of affirmatively executing a plan.

Flight #24
03-30-2008, 12:53 AM
What the hell does Anderson have to do to get a shot? He played as well or better than Ramirez in ST, is a superior CF, and hasn't really been even considered for a starting role based on the comments from the beginning re: Owens and now Ramirez. Meanwhile Uribe gets to play 2B despite years of sucking at the plate. Whitesox.com even talks about Ramirez being the regular CF until Owens returns, no mention of him playing a lot of 2B. And I'd love to see Ramirez on the field, but if it's Anderson(CF) + Alexei (2B) v. Alexei (CF) + Uribe (2B), that's a no-brainer IMO.

Prediction: BA gets <10 ABs before Owens returns and then is sent down. I hate to see it because he seems to have turned a corner and can be a real CF, something this team could use. But there's no indication that Ozzie ever really considered him for a fulltime slot. And all comments about "yeah, it was just ST" apply equally to Alexei and even moreso to Uribe given his years of suckitude. If it's D that matters in the Uribe move, why doesn't that apply to Anderson?:angry:

soxwon
03-31-2008, 03:17 PM
thome takes sabathia yard in the first inning.
hell with the past, its now, thats a begining of history.


Ahem nice call if i say so myself!!!!!
See Believe in DA rev, you gots to!!!!